Ahmadinejad defiant about result of Iranian election

Gholimoli

youcrazyjesus! wrote: »

It's extremely unlikely that an election fraud on such a scale could be carried out undetected. I'm not yet aware of any evidence whatsoever of fraud and if precedent is anything go by, it was highly likely before the outset that Ahmedinijad would be re-elected comfortably. I strongly suspect agent provocateurs and outside influences are stirring up trouble in Iran. I shudder to think what might have happened if he won 51 to 49. As for these so called opinion polls that said it was neck and neck, I was aware of many others which said Ahmedinijad would win comfortably.

its not so much that he won the election ,it's the manner in which he won that is being questioned.
he may well have won the election out right but not with 63% to 33% and not in places such as Azarbaiejan(Mousavi is from there) .

also the way it works is that after the election polls have been counted the result will go to guardian council and after they approve then Khamnei(the leader) will have to approve.

what happened was two hours after the polls were closed Khamnie comes out saying Ahmadinejad has won and he congratulated him.

there is no way nearly 40+mil votes were counted that fast ,also the gaurdian council did not get a chance of approving(not that it would really make a difference,this is all to save face) so the whole thing looked very dodgy.

had Ahmadinejad won in a like 55% v 44% or something ,i suppose ppl would be able to accept it alot better.

youcrazyjesus!

wes wrote: »

While, I heard about the same polls, the actions of the Iranian government make them look pretty damn guilty in my eyes.

A predictable and welcome reaction in some parts I'd imagine. Which could be the point of protesting in the first place. If I organised a large protest against Madonna's African baby plan in Tehran you'd get the same response from them. It's the typical response of a paranoid security apparatus. It doesn't make them look guilty. It doesn't look like a totally coherent
operation against the protests either from what I see.

I'm not fan of Ahmedinijad, nor am I a fan of somebody who'll stick his nose up the bums of EU and American leaders the first chance he'll get, I'm just adding up one side - polls, lack of evidence, precedent of Iranian Presidential elections, the vast scale of the election with the other - no evidence, typical "Orange Revolution" style protests, the media pouncing on it immediately using unsubstantiated facts. Seems like a classic and often used plan to stir up ****.

The whole thing stinks imo. We've seen it before.

wes

youcrazyjesus! wrote: »

A predictable and welcome reaction in some parts I'd imagine. Which could be the point of protesting in the first place. If I organised a large protest against Madonna's African baby plan in Tehran you'd get the same response from them. It's the typical response of a paranoid security apparatus. It doesn't make them look guilty. It doesn't look like a totally coherent
operation against the protests either from what I see.

Well, Mousavi is very much a part of the establishment himself, he was there since the start of the Islamic revolution. Its seems to me, to be more of the internal stuggle between, the hardliners and the reletavily moderate.

True enough, that the response was pretty much expected, but in the eyes of there own people the Iranian government have delegitimized itself.

youcrazyjesus! wrote: »

I'm not fan of Ahmedinijad, nor am I a fan of somebody who'll stick his nose up the bums of EU and American leaders the first chance he'll get, I'm just adding up one side - polls, lack of evidence, precedent of Iranian Presidential elections, the vast scale of the election with the other - no evidence, typical "Orange Revolution" style protests, the media pouncing on it immediately using unsubstantiated facts. Seems like a classic and often used plan to stir up ****.

The whole thing stinks imo. We've seen it before.

Again, considering the guy involved (Mousavi) is very much a part of the Islamic revolution, I don't think this is a typical colour revolution. The Western media may be portraying that, but thats just wishful thinking on there part more than anything. This seems very much like an internal issue and a power grab by Ahmedinijad and his faction.

youcrazyjesus!

Gholimoli wrote: »

its not so much that he won the election ,it's the manner in which he won that is being questioned.
he may well have won the election out right but not with 63% to 33% and not in places such as Azarbaiejan(Mousavi is from there) .

True but very high turnout can skew election results unexpectedly. I haven't been following it for a few days, I'll read up a bit more on it. I'm basing thing on what I understood to be the case before the election.

what happened was two hours after the polls were closed Khamnie comes out saying Ahmadinejad has won and he congratulated him.

there is no way nearly 40+mil votes were counted that fast ,also the gaurdian council did not get a chance of approving(not that it would really make a difference,this is all to save face) so the whole thing looked very dodgy.

They have exit polls. I got the distinct impression before the election that Ahmedinijad was going to win comfortably. I was a bit confused by the Sky/BBC news coverage before the election and although it's easy to say now but I suspected we'd see something like this following the election.

jill_valentine

Wasn't trying to make a point or anything, I was just amazed that a huge political event like this, in which the web has totally come into it's own, has been going on almost without comment here.

Considering it's lit up the internet elsewhere, considering the speed of developments, it seems to me to be worthy of the conversation...

Gholimoli

no the word in Iran just before the election was that they were neck and neck .
also in the run up to election all the Iran's youth and people who are up for a reform went in to the streets for weeks before hand and cheering up Mousavi.

this did happen when Khatamy was nominated as well but not on the same scale.

you are right in saying that the election result was not rigged as such but that is only cuz no one can prove it since the methods of proving this one way or another ,were never implemented .

also this is different from before in that,is the first time that there is a split with in the core of people who are regarded as being the father figures of the revolution.
in one side you have Khamnei who is the biggest figure there is and in another side you have Rafsanjanie who has alot of say in alot of things ans also has alot of dirt on people so they can shut him up.

they are the two most powerful figures in Iran and they dont seem to be able to see eye-to-eye any more.

very interesting to see what developes in the coming days.

wes

Government supporters rally in Iran

Thousands of pro-government demonstrators have gathered in Tehran in a show of support for the authorities' crackdown on independent media and opposition protesters.

The government mustered its supporters in Vali Asr Square on Tuesday, a day after seven people were killed in clashes on the fringes of a huge opposition rally a day earlier.

The protests have been prompted by the outcome of the country's presidential election, which saw Mahmoud Ahmadinejad, the incumbent president, win a landslide victory over his rival Mir Hossein Mousavi.

Supporters of Mousavi had planned to gather for a second day in the square, but he urged them to stay away "to protect lives".

In a message posted on his website, Mousavi asked his supporters to "exercise self-restraint".

Despite the warning, opposition supporters were in evidence on the streets in Tehran, some carrying Mousavi's picture, raising the possibility of further clashes.

Looks like the **** could hit the fan between rival supporters.

ejmaztec

jill_valentine wrote: »

Wasn't trying to make a point or anything, I was just amazed that a huge political event like this, in which the web has totally come into it's own, has been going on almost without comment here.

Considering it's lit up the internet elsewhere, considering the speed of developments, it seems to me to be worthy of the conversation...

Did you try lighting up Boards when the situation was developing?

turgon

jill_valentine wrote: »

Wasn't trying to make a point or anything, I was just amazed that a huge political event like this, in which the web has totally come into it's own, has been going on almost without comment here.

Its the same old story we here everywhere. Election in this country rigged, supporters rally, people dead. Dictatorship in another country, rally, people dead. Etc etc. After a while one becomes immune to it.

wes

turgon wrote: »

Its the same old story we here everywhere. Election in this country rigged, supporters rally, people dead. Dictatorship in another country, rally, people dead. Etc etc. After a while one becomes immune to it.

Also, there is no one actually defending the regime actions. Most of these things tend to go on and on, due to there being 2 opposing sides. In this case, there just seems to be varying levels of agreement. So there isn't much argueing going on and hence less posts.

Nodin

The only real question there may be argument is how the hell these aged clerics survive in that heat with the head gear.....

tunguska

Its hard to know for sure if the election was rigged. There is the possibility that the result is legitimate but my instincts tell me that something dodgy went down. I realise I could be wrong of course. Some things dont look good though, for example the banning of sms messaging and facebook. The powers that be in Iran know too well the power of technology. Tape cassettes were used by the ayatolah and his followers in 1979 to spread the word of the revolutionaries. And the banning of paeceful protests is also very disturbing.
Like I said it could all be legitimate and only time will tell. But one thing is for certain is that the people of Iran need our support because this election has to be looked at and put up to the light so that they are being ruled by people they voted into power and not an extremist dictatorship.

I was nearly gonna post this as a new post, but
Thoughts on this?...
This whole thing just reeks of outside interference..Western media has been ranting about these rallys since before they were happening..sky news were actually reporting on riots when it was just a few people hanging around complaining..
Although I must say that I cant help liking ahmadinejad..He speaks a lot of truth

sovtek

I noticed there is a marked difference between the media portrayal of "our" protestors over "here" and "their" protestors "over there".
All of their protestors are democracy loving and the government is violently surpressing them.
Here protestors are representing the minority view, are holding everyone to ransom, blocking traffic and "anarchists" amongst them provoke the government forces. Oh and that guy the Met police killed...well he was a bit of drunk anyway... probably would have kissed it in a few years anway...
Meanwhile Saudi Arabia hacks peoples hands off every day without even the pretense of an election.
The Iranian election is a storm in a teacup put on the front page here!
Oh and don't forget that the pres of Iran is a *Breath* HOLOCAUST DENIER *Breath*

RedPlanet

interesting article CQD.
Personally i don't use twitter or any of those social networking sites so am out of the loop.
Clearly however, the western media just love this story.

It's funny, when Khatami was president he was always "powerless" and more a figure-head than anything.
When Ahmadinejad is/was president he seemed to have lots of control.
Going by the logic of the western media, if Mousavi got in surely he'd just be another powerless figurehead.

bug

What's the significance of Rafsanjani's daughter protesting for Mousavi?

It could be argued that, considering western medias reaction to these events, and taking the article into account, the iranian action of blocking facebook/twatter etc and the foreign media is a legitimate action..

RedPlanet

There's a story in the Washington Post where an organisation took a telephone poll of iranians 3 weeks before the election.
They found that Ahmadinejad was leading by a 2-1 margin.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/06/14/AR2009061401757.html
Now there's a load people and editorials out there aiming to de-bunk it.

mike65

Well I don't know about anyone else but I would certainly trust a phone poll in Iran.

wes

mike65 wrote: »

Well I don't know about anyone else but I would certainly trust a phone poll in Iran.

The poll in question was more than a phone poll actually, but if you look at the response to other questions, more people seem to share the same political views as the reformists. So I don't see the poll as being proof of much, as its pretty confusing.

RedPlanet

mike65 wrote: »

Well I don't know about anyone else but I would certainly trust a phone poll in Iran.

I presume that's a typo?
Or is it sarcasm?
Anyway, what's so special about a telephone poll in Iran opposed to anywhere else?
It should probably show Mousavi with more support than he actually has, since lots of poor people in Iran may not even have phones.
Regardless, the media here accepts telephone polls in conducted in USA among others, so too they should accept them in Iran.

Dannyboy83

As far as i can understand the situation, Mr.AteMahDinnerJihad is just the equivalent of Bush in the USA, loved and supported by a small deluded freakshow and the rest of the country can't understand how he got into power again not to mind the first time.

There have been reports coming out of Iran for years about how the local civilian population do not see eye to eye with him or his government's policies and detest how he has Iran on a war footing etc.

I guess its surprising that the Iranians have had to courage to stand up to a war mongerer while the Americans never had.

RedPlanet

Hmm, let's see.
I remember a time when the Taliban in Afghanistan had kidnapped and executed a number of Iranian diplomats that were in the country and Iran sent something like 50,000 troops to the border.
I'd call that being on "war footing".
But today?
How the heck is Iran on "war footing"??

wes

bug wrote: »

What's the significance of Rafsanjani's daughter protesting for Mousavi?

That there is a split in the establishment, or that she is trying to annoy her Dad?!?

994

Young middle-class citydwellers do not a majority make.

RedPlanet

If there were geniune hopes for revolution in Iran, it's probably gone at this point. Why?
Because of the behavior of western media, not to mention the actions of Israel; all salivating over the chance to destablize Iran.
Those inside will inevitably see it for what it is.
Meddling; and that will doom it.

lostexpectation

is it thailand that i thinking of where the middle class have soft spot for the king and are trying to tell the rest of the coutnry what to think and even though sinatwa is dodgey anybody they bring in to replace him will be dodgey too.

wes

994 wrote: »

Young middle-class citydwellers do not a majority make.

To the best of my knowledge the protests come from a cross section of society. Basically, the current guys incompetence has pissed off a lot of people. Remember, Adminjaed has managed to mess up there economy and I reckon a lot of people who would normally support hard liners want rid of him, due to his incompetent handling of the economy.

O'TOOLE79

Hahahha this got a mention

g5fd6ow0hseima

Has meaningful opposition demonstration taken place outside of Tehran? In any of the provinces, or rural areas, where I assume the majority of inhabitants are more likely to be alligned with Ahmadinejad and other 'hard-line' factions.