Poker Boards Discussion thread... (BBV thread)

Hermy

mdwexford wrote: »

The count to a million thread is stupid, lets call a spade a spade here.

Perhaps it is but it doesn't offend anyone [I hope] and it stays on topic as per the rules of the thread.
Alas, the same cannot be said for the BBV thread and that is why it was removed.

Whyno

Boston wrote: »

The poker moderators could have done that, but decided not to. It isn't the Admin's role to moderate individual forums (besides systems forums). An admin is unlikely to know much about your community, or take it into account before locking a thread. Their primary priority is boards.ie. The thread was a threat to the site and it was stamped on hard as a result, if you wanted a softer approach you should have reported it to a moderator.

I only logged on when the damage was done as did most of the guys. Mistakes have been made by all parties in this and the innocent ones have been most affected.
Group hug and give us back the BBV....

Rb

smurph wrote: »

and let Devour

I think you've got something else on your mind tbh.

mewso

mdwexford wrote: »

Couldnt resist

But can anyone honestly say it isnt.........

The merits of counting to a million on boards is not relevant to this discussion in the slightest.

The Snapper

Boston wrote: »

The poker moderators could have done that, but decided not to. It isn't the Admin's role to moderate individual forums (besides systems forums). An admin is unlikely to know much about your community, or take it into account before locking a thread. Their primary priority is boards.ie. The thread was a threat to the site and it was stamped on hard as a result, if you wanted a softer approach you should have reported it to a moderator.

Nevyn

brianmc wrote: »

What's with the needless jibing at the poker mods?

It was an question is all.

Chucky the tree wrote: »

I dont know if that's sarcasm but Iit's not in the charter of BGRH, It's not in the charter of Pagenism, it's not in the charter of PI but it is in the chrter of parenting. So I think it pretty comical you having a petty snipe at the poker mods for not having the FAQ on display when it 3 of the forums you mod don't have it either.

I know I did put it in parenting and I meant that it is a cool suggestion and putting it in the rest of the charters of the forum I mod right now.

Hey something good came out of this thread

mdwexford

seamus wrote: »

TCN posters would say the same about the BBV thread. How is that helpful in the slightest? How does it justify anything?

The BBV is full of interesting posts about tons of different topics.

The count to a million thread is numbers in order.

I trust intelligent people see which contributes more to boards.ie.

Now i am done with this stupid debate, wasted enough time here for today, if the admins cant see their mistake at this stage then theres no point continuing this.

Theresalwaysone

Mdwexford... You arent helping. Take a break imo. I know you feel strongly about it but you are dragging this in directions it doesnt need to go.

I'm not having a go either just so you know. Id like to see this sorted too.

Hitman Actual

Chucky the tree wrote: »

I'm really disapointed is Dev for not once coming to the defence of the poker mods for the brilliant job they have done over the years. If people think the poker mods did such a bad job then they really should be aiming their abuse at the admins who let them be mods and even after this incident had no problem with them continuing as mods.

In fairness to DeVore, I can recall a couple of posts from him over the years where he commended the mods of the poker forum. I'd expect him to be reasonable and even-handed in all this, once the dust settles.

Boston wrote:

So because I'm unbiased, I should offer an opinion. Never posted on either forum, never dealt with mods on either forum. Sounds to me like I'm exactly the type of user who should offer an opinion. Bit hard to claim I have an axe to grind aye?

The problem is that, even though you say you're unbiased, the impression I get from your posts is that you are in fact biased towards supporting the admins in all of this. That's fair enough if true, you're entitled to your opinion and all, but there's not much balance or reason in your posts. It's easy to see why the poker forum regs are annoyed with your posts.

DeVore

The attitude of "its retarded imho so its ok to p*ss on it even though it doesn't affect me at all" is the basic problem here.

Mistakes have been made and this thread isnt helping us unmake them. I'll be back when I have talked it through with the mods and admins.

DeV.

kerash

mdwexford wrote: »

The count to a million thread is stupid, lets call a spade a spade here.

Just because someone considers a thread stupid, does NOT mean it is okay to personally insult any poster partaking in the thread.
This happened several times on the count thread, originating from and supported by posters on the bbv thread and the mod online at the time and a fundamental rule of boards - (personal abuse will not be tolerated) was broken.

Taxipete29

Just wanted to say a thank you to the Poker Mods for all their efforts and work which helped make the Poker forum what it was.

The main argument here is the moving of the BBV thread without considering the consequences. Nobody is condoning what happened in TCN, not even the guys involved. Everyone realises it was wrong.

The thread should of been cleaned up, warnings bans etc handed out and then allow the rest of us to use the BBV. Why didnt this happen???
This whole problem has arisen becasue someone didnt think to see what effect their actions would have on a whole boards community( and they accuse the poker communtiy of being insular and selfish).

This rubbish about reporting posts and posters looking after the community is a red herring. I had an issue when I first started posting about being a back-seat mod, which I wasnt even aware I was doing. The only time I report a post is if some is being abusive towards me and I have never felt the need to do so in the Poker Forum. The same cannot be said for other forums on here.

Guys like Boston et al are obviously just here to stir it up, so i suggest we do like our great poker mods would say when DBC attacks, DONT FEED THE TROll

brianmc

Thaedydal wrote: »

It was an question is all.

Bo11ox.

Question loaded with the suggestions.

Rb

DeVore wrote: »

I'll be back when I have talked it through with the mods and admins.

DeV, what do the other admins have to do with this?

Except Gordon, of course, I don't think you should be prioritising talking with them over talking to the actual community members. It only serves to further the "us against them" argument that has remained a theme throughout this thread.

Boston

Hitman Actual wrote: »

The problem is that, even though you say you're unbiased, the impression I get from your posts is that you are in fact biased towards supporting the admins in all of this. That's fair enough if true, you're entitled to your opinion and all, but there's not much balance or reason in your posts. It's easy to see why the poker forum regs are annoyed with your posts.

I'm neither for nor against either the poker forum or TCN, but rather I suppose boards.ie in this case. Is it surprising that I ended up on the Admin side in this one? On previous occasions I've argued against the actions of the Admins.

Boston

Rb wrote: »

DeV, what do the other admins have to do with this?

Except Gordon, of course, I don't think you should be prioritising talking with them over talking to the actual community members. It only serves to further the "us against them" argument that has remained a theme throughout this thread.

Decisions are now made by the "network brain" where appropriate. It wouldn't be appropriate for DeVore to take action on this with consulting the other Admins.

Chucky the tree

Thaedydal wrote: »

It was an question is all.



I know I did put it in parenting and I meant that it is a cool suggestion and putting it in the rest of the charters of the forum I mod right now.

Hey something good came out of this thread

So you admit that it's not common practice to have the FAQ in the charter or anywhere on display in most forums and the majority of the ones you mod don't have it either yet for some reason you're sitting there wondering why the poker mods didn't bother putting in their charter? wtf?

hotspur

I've only got through two thirds of this thread thus far as there is so much so apologies if I say anything which is repetition or misses a good point made.

The first thing I want to say, because there was no opportunity to say it at the time (even though it now seems almost irrelevant), is that I disagree with the assumption that there was a concerted attempt by a group people from BBV to genuinely ruin the million thread or in Dev's unfortunate words 'bully' anybody.

And here is why I believe it is a mistake to think that. Just because the BBV OP Lazare framed his post in a manner suggesting such an action I don't think a single person reading it either agreed with the essence of it or posted with the intention of genuinely ruining that thread.

I was the 2nd BBV poster to post in the million thread and my post was '1', which was an ironic humourous post on Lazare's post which was hoping to set it back by 3,000. The vast majority of posts which followed by a BBV member were of a similar humourous nature. Take a look at a thread which is stickied in the cuckoo's nest called 'let's count to 10', the exact same thing happened with humourous wrong replies by their own community:
http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055491394

Now I had thought that the cuckoo's nest was a forum for random wackiness and messing. I thought its raison d'etre was for having a laugh. I put it to anyone that that was the intention of practically every post by a BBV member. There was no genuine attempt to prevent that thread from reaching its goal, it was a few laughs which were in my view well intentioned by all but either one or two people.

You cannot judge the intentions of the BBV posters who posted by reference the original post by Lazare who suggested genuinely sabotaging the thread, that wasn't my intention and knowing the others who posted I know that that wasn't their intention. But I can understand that someone from outside who just looked at the OP and then subsequent posts in the thread may have reasonably come to that conclusion. But knowing myself and the other people better than any admin I know that the intentions were light banter in what was presumed to be a non-serious forum and thread.

We have moved from the point of everyone saying that the actions of a few should not result in punishment for the many as a point of principle to assuming that the actions of the few were particularly wrong in this instance.

Don't get me wrong I'm not saying that there was nothing whatsoever inappropriate about what happened, but I am saying that the perception that it was malicious is incorrect, it was overwhelmingly supposed to be a bit of fun in a thread which we all assumed could handle it without genuine detriment to the thread itself.

I just felt that that needed to be said because the actions of people were being mischaracterised. I recall only 2 posters in the million thread being insulting in any way and that was wrong of them.

Also this partly explains why such posts in BBV were not reported, nobody thought that this was actually a serious attack or characterised it the way the admins are. That's because we understand the culture of BBV and the posters and their intentions, we know that we wouldn't act maliciously. Also for those who don't understand BBV well, there are so many posts of no interest to individuals about different sports etc. that the modus operandi of posters is to just skip over those they aren't interested in, it's analogous to not listening to a conversation that two friends are having in a company of a large gathering.

---

^ drawing a line under the actual incident which was alleged to have caused the problem.

Now very few of us who have an inkling of the totality of the matter of the BBV and boards upper level folk believe for one second that BBV was pulled and we were treated with disdain and condescension due to this incident even accepting that the intentionality of it was misinterpreted. I believe that this is delayed retribution for the broad support of BBV members against the behaviour of GuanYin in closing down the soccer off topic thread.

That issue was a soccer forum issue and the only non-soccer forum contributing BBV member contributions actually came in a feedback thread where virtually every ordinary boards member who contributed was critical of the actions of that particular mod. is this the 'previous incidences' being referred to by admins claiming that BBV has attacked another forum before?

If so, and I cannot think of any other possible one, it is laughable to describe people giving genuine opinions in FEEDBACK as a concerted attack on another forum. And in the particular case every other non-BBV ordinary member and soccer forum member shared the same opinion on the issue and said so.

If I had to guess I would say that this removing of the BBV is in reality a delayed revenge for the thanking of a single post which was critical of a soccer mod in feedback, a mod for whom trouble mysteriously surrounds her all the time. if I'm wrong please correct me. And if so please list for us what were the list of supposed attacks that BBV coordinated in the past that have been detrimental to boards. Because we are at a loss to think of them.

As for where we were on Sunday night. The problem most of us had was the dismissive attitude of admins towards us as if our whole community was not valued and we were ungrateful parasites. You show me a community which has raised more money for charity than the poker one. You show me one which has financially supported Dev more in his business ventures. I'm not saying that he somehow owes us anything, but I am saying that he should have known that we weren't deserving of his contemptuous and condescending remarks and attitude. I expected it of admins who don't know us.

Even not admitting the technical difficulty in reinstating the BBV shows bad faith as it was characterised as being a new BBV for reasonable posters and presented as a trial run to make sure we were all good little boys and girls. It's very difficult to have a debate when one side is not being open and honest about motivations and reasons for actions.

Personally my commitment is to the community I am a part of and not to some computer code. I would much preferred if this whole matter had been dealt with with a modicum of sense and proportionality. But it looks as if the break has been made between the people who run boards and the poker community members. Clearly I believe the vast majority of the blame does not lie with the poker forum members who have attempted to argue reasonably and intelligently from the start.

I hope that the dismissive and uncaring attitude of admins who never understood us or had a stake in our existence does not result in the loss of this large and close knit community for good. There was a time when we could have migrated to Antes Up, again supporting the efforts of Dev prior to his being sick of us. Hopefully we will go somewhere if we can't stay here.

Finally in this tl;dr post I want to pay tribute to the poker forum moderators whom I have enormous respect and affection for. A community could not wish for a better, reasonable, intelligent, and good humoured group of moderators. Alas their qualities are not ubiquitous.

The Snapper

Anyone else got "more than a feeling" that "Boston", is really enjoying venting at The Poker Forum infidels ?

Kinetic^

Rb wrote: »

DeV, what do the other admins have to do with this?

It's about getting more then one opinion from the people who make the decisions around here.

YULETIRED

DeVore wrote: »

The attitude of "its retarded imho so its ok to p*ss on it even though it doesn't affect me at all" is the basic problem here.

Mistakes have been made and this thread isnt helping us unmake them. I'll be back when I have talked it through with the mods and admins.

DeV.

lads stop rising to Bostons biat. Don't post any more on this thread until this is acted on. Seems like a reasonable statement.

humanji

Rb wrote: »

DeV, what do the other admins have to do with this?

Except Gordon, of course, I don't think you should be prioritising talking with them over talking to the actual community members. It only serves to further the "us against them" argument that has remained a theme throughout this thread.

Well if you see that amount of shìte that's been posted in this thread, is it hardly surprising that they want to keep it at poker mods and admins to start with? There'd be too much noise otherwise.

seamus

Rb wrote: »

DeV, what do the other admins have to do with this?

Except Gordon, of course, I don't think you should be prioritising talking with them over talking to the actual community members. It only serves to further the "us against them" argument that has remained a theme throughout this thread.

With all due respect, I don't think talking to the poker community is required because their wishes are abundantly clear.

DeVore

Hotspur, I have a great regard for what you write, but this has nothing to do with Soccer. The mentions of GY were because previously the BBV was used to "teach her a good lesson" (paraphrasing), so when this incident happened, the reaction was swifter and more invasive.

Now I think the whole thing is a sh!tstorm which can be solved if there is a willingness to. Primaraily that involves the mods and the admins discussing things so that we dont end up here again.

I'd appreciate the time and space to achieve that.

DeV.

The Snapper

YULETIRED wrote: »

lads stop rising to Bostons biat. Don't post any more on this thread until this is acted on. Seems like a reasonable statement.

Duly noted though a little late, I shall desist

Nevyn

Chucky the tree wrote: »

So you admit that it's not common practice to have the FAQ in the charter or anywhere on display in most forums, and all the ones you mod yet for some reason you sitting there wondering why the poker mods didn't bother putting in their charter? wtf?

There seem to be a lot of poker reg posters who don't seem to understand how the site works. I find this confusing, in forums that I mod which are new and have grown and have a high % of new posters like the parenting forum and it's new sub forums I have tried to do my best to make sure that all the posters esp the new posters get a grasp of how those forums and the site has a whole works.

This has gotten more difficult as the site has grown and so we have the FAQ
to clearly spell things out and it's a really useful tool. I am concerned that the poker forum as a whole as splintered off so much that the posters there are unaware of the FAQ ( which has a code of conduct written in it) even after the site wide anouncement when it was launched and if there are as many bans and infractions and people not learning as this post seems to suggest then surely every tool must be used to make sure people know what is and isn't permitted on the site so that everyone has a better boards.ie experience.

DeVore

YULETIRED wrote: »

lads stop rising to Bostons biat. Don't post any more on this thread until this is acted on. Seems like a reasonable statement.

Thank you. You'd swear I am the sworn mortal enemy of all things poker the way some people have been going on lately.

DeV.

Xavi6

Don't want to give too much of an opinion on the issue at hand but I do want to say that the BBV was a fantastic thread for Boards and really helped draw new members to a flourishing community. I don't think I ever posted but I regularly lurked (some hilarious stuff to be read) and for it just to be binned on basically a whim is disappointing. The anger amongst the community members is 100% understandable.

It should also be noted that as usual it is the same names coming up in the brown nosing department. With all due respect to the admins of the site, there are certain individuals who see it fit to post "you are not your post count" and "boards has no freedom of speech" in every single Feedback thread and it only serves to make things worse. I don't think it's necessary to name names.

If discussion is ongoing then there's no need for this thread. The points have all been made at this stage and the cheap digs are helping no one. Maybe it's time the thread joined the BBV on the scrap heap.

Rb

Boston wrote: »

Decisions are now made by the "network brain" where appropriate. It wouldn't be appropriate for DeVore to take action on this with consulting the other Admins.

Ah right, fair enough!

YULETIRED wrote: »

lads stop rising to Bostons biat. Don't post any more on this thread until this is acted on. Seems like a reasonable statement.

Indeed, could be a good opportunity for everyone to calm down and reflect on what has been said, a break for dinner perhaps.

humanji wrote: »

Well if you see that amount of shìte that's been posted in this thread, is it hardly surprising that they want to keep it at poker mods and admins to start with? There'd be too much noise otherwise.

Good point

seamus wrote: »

With all due respect, I don't think talking to the poker community is required because their wishes are abundantly clear.

That's true. I think my issue lies with it being behind closed doors more than anything. A forum where the admins/mods could talk about this kind of stuff, that only they could post in but everyone could read would be quite interesting I think.

I don't think anyone would want to lift the lid off the current mod forum though :pac:

Theresalwaysone

I admit I am genuinely suprised at the amount of people who lurk the bbv, people Id think would have zero interest in the Poker forum. I think thats a testament to the poker forum, the posters and the thread itself.

I hate all the brown-nosing too and agree 100% with Xavi6. The comments he quoted only serve to inflame the discussion at hand.

I also think Dev should be given time to sort it all out but when admins make posts like Beruthiels first post in this thread its not hard to see why regular Poker forum posters are apprehensive and anxious.