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Poker Boards Discussion thread... (BBV thread)

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    #212
    mdwexford
    Registered Users Posts: 11,276 ✭✭✭✭mdwexford


    Onkle wrote: »
    The fresh start will be good imo. Means all the crap attached to the old one is gone.

    What "crap", what exactly does this mean, you seem to be in way over your head here discussing things you have no idea about.

    If that thread doesnt go back it will be the death of the poker forum.


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    #213
    My name is URL
    Registered Users Posts: 25,069 ✭✭✭✭My name is URL


    I noticed that the inevitable has happened here.... The issue has been likened to a pub scenario :rolleyes:

    For the love of all that is good and online, can people try not to do that because it devalues every point that's being made from either side, imo

    Pub owners don't sit around contemplating their problems and come to any conclusion that what they should do is take a webmasters route.


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    #214
    Killme00
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,441 ✭✭✭Killme00


    brianmc wrote: »
    A handful of posts out of 60,000 to be more precise.


    Approx less than 0.25% and even that is high

    So what happens to the other 99.75%


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    #215
    Rev Hellfire
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,346 ✭✭✭Rev Hellfire


    Onkle wrote: »
    The fresh start will be good imo. Means all the crap attached to the old one is gone.
    Would you say the same if say a large volume of the posts in your forum where removed for no good reason other than someone couldn't be bothered to prune a thread and in a huff took the easy route a nuked it ?


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    #216
    Karl Hungus
    Closed Accounts Posts: 29,130 ✭✭✭✭Karl Hungus


    Rb wrote: »
    I'd go so far as to say if it was moved without knowledge of the consequences to not only the community but to the actual data structure of the website, then the person who moved it should certainly not have had the ability to do so.

    To be fair to the admins on this one, every single mod on boards has the ability to move a thread to the recycle bin, and none of us have really known about any issue with restoring it again. It may have been an issue that the people who did know, didn't think would happen.


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    #217
    Gary ITR
    Closed Accounts Posts: 16,801 ✭✭✭✭Gary ITR


    Killme00 wrote: »
    To what crap are you reffering?
    Whatever started this. And also the antics with GY. Both of which had to be brought to an Admins attention to deal with because the poker mods didn't deal with it


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    #218
    mdwexford
    Registered Users Posts: 11,276 ✭✭✭✭mdwexford


    Boston wrote: »
    Thats not for you to decide. Your don't get to destroy something for your amusement.

    I didnt decide a thing and i didnt destroy it either.

    What i am saying is that a group of sane adults typing numbers in order in a thread seems a little strange to me. Maybe they should be left in peace to do it but the reaction to it has been ridiculous to the extreme, anyone with a brain can see that and it seems the admins just wont back down now for fear of looking silly or giving in to peer pressure or some such tripe.


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    #219
    Wreck
    Registered Users Posts: 2,139 ✭✭✭Wreck


    Boston wrote: »
    You shouldn't be punished, but I do think you're full of it when you say you care about the site, as a result.

    Just because it was pointless doesn't mean the poker regulars should be allowed attack it.

    I'm not even going to respond to you calling me full of sh1t based on a hypothetical situation, but once again you have missed the point that no-one is defending the attack on the count to a million thread.


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    #220
    Gary ITR
    Closed Accounts Posts: 16,801 ✭✭✭✭Gary ITR


    Rev Hellfire wrote: »
    Would you say the same if say a large volume of the posts in your forum where removed for no good reason other than someone couldn't be bothered to prune a thread and in a huff took the easy route a nuked it ?
    I would like to think that myself or my fellow mods would have dealt with the situation before it got as far as an admin


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    #221
    Beruthiel
    Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators Posts: 42,362 Mod ✭✭✭✭Beruthiel


    Karl Hungus wrote: »
    It may have been an issue that the people who did know, didn't think would happen.

    Apparently, we were going to be told about it this week.


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    #222
    5starpool
    Subscribers Posts: 32,855 ✭✭✭✭5starpool


    Cross posted from a post by me in the poker mod forum.

    ============================
    The statements that our moderation of the poker forum will have to change because of this is the deal breaker. Whatever happened previously in the GY incident has not bearing on this as that was a seperate issue and had been dealt with I thought. Insinuations that we condone forum invasions are off the mark.

    Kev has admitted that he made a mistake at the time, but that seems not to be enough. He has said he is willing to accept some form of censure if you deem it appropriate. Ste saw some of the posts but after Kevs post saying "ah calm down lads, don't post abuse", I'm assuming that he thought the issue was dealt with. Myself, Laf and Lloyd were not online at the time.

    We were not given the opportunity to sort this out imo. Speaking for myself, if this all ends in a big hug, then I would not be prepared to change the way I moderate, and have done for the last few years. I do not condone this behaviour, and having poker bans handed out in respect to all the people involved on the night is fine with me, but I would assume that it would be along the lines of 2 weeks for each, and those you have sitebanned, that is totally your call, I have no issues with it.

    If the big threads thing is as much an issue as being said (and I have no reason to disbelieve you, this is what I would consider suitable steps (suggestion, not ultimatum).

    1. We have accepted, and also previously knew, that what happened the other night is not on. Ste's points on how he would deal with this in future, are how I would also.
    2. Post a general announcement in feedback or affected forums about really big threads, and say when they will be closed and new ones started. This will get a lot of the poker posters away from the victimisation mentality. Also say when they should be closed and new ones started in iteration (say 20k or whatever).
    3. Delete the new bbv with the crap in it, move the old locked one back to poker, and in light of the above sitewide decision, start a new one. Leave any bold boys comments to mods as a courtesy as I really think it would be more effective. We could agree the general tone of it beforehand.
    4. We moderate as before, but in light of previous, no messing around about other mods/forums will be allowed.
    5. We will still allow others to link to silly CT threads or whatever, and discuss them there, but not with carte blanche of course. Posts like 'what a silly thread, link' are still ok as far as I am concerned. Abuse of specific posters on those threads is not ok though.
    6. When we need an admin hand we call for one. I think the suggestion that we only go to DeV is wrong. I have previously had PM conversatiosn with several of the admins, as well as posting general mod forum threads for input, legal forum threads, and of course mod forum threads where we have asked for general admin opinion. I don't think anyone is saying that one admin or another should only deal with us.
    7. We still of course recognise admin primacy on boards, but taking such a drastic step as was taken here is something that really does make you wonder if it is all worth it. there have been countless times where I have felt like resigning as poker mod due to one drama or other (internal) but because of the bond I have developed with the posters and the forum in general, I have not. A hand to steer and nudge things in a direction is how I view admins input into forums ethos, what I consider to be interference is not how I view it. Before anyone points it out, I do know how this site works and that admins do as they wish etc, but I am just putting forward my view into it.

    I have no wish to see the poker forum in essence move elsewhere. A large part of what we are is because of where we are, but this is not just about the thread, and it never was. If this all boils down to an agreement being reached, and the mods both agreeing to stay on, and allowed to stay on (it is a 2 way discussion between us and admins I presume) then I will be delighted move on. It will not move on though if there is a percepion of people looking over your shoulder the whole time.

    I moved up and down through this post as I thought of more things, so I hope it hangs together. Then general vibe should be clear though I think.


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    #223
    Killme00
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,441 ✭✭✭Killme00


    Onkle wrote: »
    Whatever started this. And also the antics with GY. Both of which had to be brought to an Admins attention to deal with because the poker mods didn't deal with it

    I dont know what the GY stuff is but can you roughly estimate how many posts were craps out of the sixty or so thousand. Its seems that you have cut off somethings head when a haircut was needed.


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    #224
    Gary ITR
    Closed Accounts Posts: 16,801 ✭✭✭✭Gary ITR


    mdwexford wrote: »
    I didnt decide a thing and i didnt destroy it either.

    What i am saying is that a group of sane adults typing numbers in order in a thread seems a little strange to me. Maybe they should be left in peace to do it but the reaction to it has been ridiculous to the extreme, anyone with a brain can see that and it seems the admins just wont back down now for fear of looking silly or giving in to peer pressure or some such tripe.
    In fairness not all of them are adults. What seems strange to one person is perfectly normal to another. TCN isn't one of my favourite forums but I leave them at what they are doing


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    #225
    Theresalwaysone
    Registered Users Posts: 4,039 ✭✭✭Theresalwaysone


    Why are the poker forum regulars even arguing with Onkle. Someone who called the thread a "cancer" to boards is not going to change their mind, so ignore him and let him waffle away.


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    #226
    strewelpeter
    Registered Users Posts: 1,263 ✭✭✭strewelpeter


    Boston wrote: »
    ...Why is the the poker forum's community more important then the one that exists there?

    Show me where anyone says it is.
    Thaedydal wrote: »
    Yes a block vote was put together by the poker posters and they swept the awards, they are an organised community when they want to be.
    Are you serious, this is a joke right? You might consider living in Iran where you have can have whatever election result you like if you are in power.
    Onkle wrote: »
    I'd have thought a fresh start would be the way to go. Gets rid of the stigma now attached to the old thread.

    Stigma ! Wow. You are the same person that caled the thread a cancer yesterday and hasn't backed up that statement either.

    FWIW I've been doing online communities since compuserve in 1992 and I have never felt happier to be a part of any community than I have in the last few years of Poker and the BBV. And that includes the many participants who make e want to tear my hair out on a daily basis.

    It may not seem like it to people who are not involved but there is a lot of exceptional content buried in that thread.
    It will be shame if what appears to me to have been a childishly petulant error by Gordon is allowed to destroy it.


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    #227
    RichieLawlor
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,873 ✭✭✭RichieLawlor


    Onkle wrote: »
    I would like to think that myself or my fellow mods would have dealt with the situation before it got as far as an admin

    Honestly, you have an agenda against the poker forum therefore your posts are 100% biased. i think its best if you stayed out of it


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    #228
    Rb
    Closed Accounts Posts: 14,277 ✭✭✭✭Rb


    Karl Hungus wrote: »
    To be fair to the admins on this one, every single mod on boards has the ability to move a thread to the recycle bin, and none of us have really known about any issue with restoring it again. It may have been an issue that the people who did know, didn't think would happen.
    Fair point, Karl, I just think there should have been more caution shown when dealing with one of the biggest threads on the site, not only in amount of posts but also in views.

    Hopefully there will be a lesson learnt as a result but I suppose it also supports my argument from earlier regarding people thinking they know best :)


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    #229
    seamus
    Registered Users Posts: 68,317 ✭✭✭✭seamus


    Karl Hungus wrote: »
    Seamus, do you not think that comments like "the poker forum thinks too much of itself" is not just stoking the fire here? You're actively propagating the us vs. them attitude that's going on. No, boards probably doesn't need the poker community, but even if people are acting like it does, it shouldn't matter, I think the boards admins should be above that.
    I was trying to avoid that implication, but obviously I failed, so if anyone did think I was giving an us -v- them viewpoint, I apologise.

    It however can't be denied that the same attitude is being displayed here by the general poker population participating in this thread - that boards.ie is exercising its will over the poker forum, instead of understanding that the poker forum is *part* of boards.ie and not some external principality or rogue state.

    Comments "threatening" the admins about how much damage alienating the poker forum can do, don't help solve the issue and don't add to the discussion at hand, at all.


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    #230
    BuffyBot
    Registered Users Posts: 24,924 ✭✭✭✭BuffyBot


    OK - I've just had to infract one or two posters.

    Keep it civil, people. Whatever the issue may be, civility is a requirement.


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    #231
    tylerdurden94
    Registered Users Posts: 2,755 ✭✭✭tylerdurden94


    All this talk of it cant be moved, database etc etc reminds me of the time the BBV got moved by mistake into another section on the poker forum and it got moved back no problems!

    So why not this time is my question?


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    #232
    Gary ITR
    Closed Accounts Posts: 16,801 ✭✭✭✭Gary ITR


    Killme00 wrote: »
    I dont know what the GY stuff is but can you roughly estimate how many posts were craps out of the sixty or so thousand. Its seems that you have cut off somethings head when a haircut was needed.
    What I'm saying is that there is a whole horrible stigma attached to the thread now. I thought the thread was gas. I didn't post in it not being one of the regulars and I don't play poker for real money so not so hardcore like the rest of ye :)

    Imagine this. Your local pub, open since 1897, never a whiff of trouble and then one Friday night some lad gets shot. Do you think that pub will find it easy to have bums on seats the following Friday? I'm far from having a go here. I just think it's time to move forward and start things off on the right foot


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    #233
    brianmc
    Registered Users Posts: 868 ✭✭✭brianmc


    Onkle wrote: »
    ...some lad gets shot.

    :confused:


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    #234
    Rb
    Closed Accounts Posts: 14,277 ✭✭✭✭Rb


    Theresalwaysone wrote: »
    Why are the poker forum regulars even arguing with Onkle. Someone who called the thread a "cancer" to boards is not going to change their mind, so ignore him and let him waffle away.
    Indeed, his furious backpeddling and selective reading is amusing though.


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    #235
    Nevyn
    Closed Accounts Posts: 43,045 ✭✭✭✭Nevyn


    strewelpeter wrote: »
    Are you serious, this is a joke right? You might consider living in Iran where you have can have whatever election result you like if you are in power.

    Yep cos the LuBNiP forum did the same 3 years ago and swept the awards,
    we had the biggest block vote and we all voted together, same way the poker forum did for the last awards.

    strewelpeter wrote: »
    FWIW I've been doing online communities since compuserve in 1992 and I have never felt happier to be a part of any community than I have in the last few years of Poker and the BBV. And that includes the many participants who make e want to tear my hair out on a daily basis.

    Thats really cool that you found a home here.

    strewelpeter wrote: »
    It may not seem like it to people who are not involved but there is a lot of exceptional content buried in that thread.
    It will be shame if what appears to me to have been a childishly petulant error by Gordon is allowed to destroy it.

    It's not destroyed it's just not currently in the poker forum and no one can post in it.


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    #236
    Boston
    Closed Accounts Posts: 17,163 ✭✭✭✭Boston


    5starpool wrote: »
    Cross posted from a post by me in the poker mod forum.

    ============================
    The statements that our moderation of the poker forum will have to change because of this is the deal breaker. Whatever happened previously in the GY incident has not bearing on this as that was a seperate issue and had been dealt with I thought. Insinuations that we condone forum invasions are off the mark.

    Kev has admitted that he made a mistake at the time, but that seems not to be enough. He has said he is willing to accept some form of censure if you deem it appropriate. Ste saw some of the posts but after Kevs post saying "ah calm down lads, don't post abuse", I'm assuming that he thought the issue was dealt with. Myself, Laf and Lloyd were not online at the time.

    ...


    I moved up and down through this post as I thought of more things, so I hope it hangs together. Then general vibe should be clear though I think.

    Here's my counter proposal.

    1. How about you cop on and moderate in accordance to how the rest of the site is moderated or go elsewhere?

    tylerdurden94: I don't know when that was but the database was redesigned recently enough and also the thread would have been much smaller.


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    #237
    Slash/ED
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,163 ✭✭✭Slash/ED


    This whole debate can be summed up in one picture

    2586518540_650bbc9187_o.jpg


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    #238
    Wreck
    Registered Users Posts: 2,139 ✭✭✭Wreck


    seamus wrote: »

    Comments "threatening" the admins about how much damage alienating the poker forum can do, don't help solve the issue and don't add to the discussion at hand, at all.

    I don't think most of those comments are meant as threats, I just think alot of us are mystified as to why you would want to piss off a sizeable section of boards users.


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    #239
    mdwexford
    Registered Users Posts: 11,276 ✭✭✭✭mdwexford


    Onkle wrote: »
    What I'm saying is that there is a whole horrible stigma attached to the thread now. I thought the thread was gas. I didn't post in it not being one of the regulars and I don't play poker for real money so not so hardcore like the rest of ye :)

    Imagine this. Your local pub, open since 1897, never a whiff of trouble and then one Friday night some lad gets shot. Do you think that pub will find it easy to have bums on seats the following Friday? I'm far from having a go here. I just think it's time to move forward and start things off on the right foot

    Analogies are not your strong point sir.

    A 60k post thread which is a forum institution has 2 or 3 guys troll a "thread" so lets ditch it?

    Do you really think this will have any bearing on stopping people trolling ever again?

    Over-reaction, end of story.


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    #240
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Onkle wrote: »
    Imagine this. Your local pub, open since 1897, never a whiff of trouble and then one Friday night some lad gets shot. Do you think that pub will find it easy to have bums on seats the following Friday? I'm far from having a go here. I just think it's time to move forward and start things off on the right foot

    Contender for worst comparison ever.


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    #241
    My name is URL
    Registered Users Posts: 25,069 ✭✭✭✭My name is URL


    Thaedydal wrote: »

    It's not destroyed it's just not currently in the poker forum and no one can post in it.

    lol


This discussion has been closed.
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