bringing in a property Tax

gotBass

have you heard about this idea being put out.
I think that the govt are going to start a riot on this one.
taxing peoples homes in the face of negative equity stamp duty, job losses, rising cost of living already increased taxes/ Levies.

If people are faced with this, surely there'll be a further increase in the number of properties for sale etc. And buyers will be reluctant to buy knowing it'll cost them more to own.

There's an elephant in the room - it's called government expenditure, Let's look at that before we make tax criminals out of people who cannot afford to be otherwise.

Sponge Bob

They already did . Every home that is not a primary residence is taxable @ €200 a year since the October budget .

gurramok

Might be a riot for you but its not an issue for others. Stamp duty would be abolished if they brought it in, makes sense.

Why should Ireland be the only country in the EU without a property PPR tax?

Sponge Bob

Sponge Bob wrote: »

They already did . Every home that is not a primary residence is taxable @ €200 a year since the October budget .

Yeah. That was brought in with barely a whimper, even though it was clearly the thin end of the wedge.

cavedave

How many people actually own land property? Farmers who wont be included. Old people who got mortgages 30 years ago and have now paid them off, but who are either retired or nearly retired so don't have a huge income.

Landlords who should be paying tax on rental income. Most young home owners pays a mortgage to a bank who actually owns the property. Instead of property tax would mortgage tax be a better term? And if so why not just scrap mortgage interest relief as paying a tax then getting it back seems inefficient.

Sponge Bob

( Back of Envelope) of the c. 1.9m houses in Ireland some 400,000 are second or investment or rented or holiday homes and the other 1.5m are owner occupied or local authority tenants .

400,000 x €200 is €80m , assuming they are efficiently collected and not owned by NAMA for example

jimmmy

Sponge Bob wrote: »

( Back of Envelope) of the c. 1.9m houses in Ireland some 400,000 are second or investment or rented or holiday homes and the other 1.5m are owner occupied or local authority tenants .

400,000 x €200 is €80m , assuming they are efficiently collected and not owned by NAMA for example

It would be difficult to collect any tax...especially off people who have paid the extortionate 9% stamp duty already, and who are in negative equity. As someone else said " There's an elephant in the room - it's called government expenditure, Let's look at that before we make tax criminals out of people who cannot afford to be otherwise."

Do not forget the govt cannot already collect efficiently the relatively cheap and simple TV tax / licence fee...which is a fixed amount per dwelling ....

NewDubliner

jimmmy wrote: »

Do not forget the govt cannot already collect efficiently the relatively cheap and simple TV tax / licence fee...which is a fixed amount per dwelling ....

Have you got statistics for that?

cavedave

NewDubliner

Have you got statistics for that?

Estimates of the evasion rates are here.

Sponge Bob

jimmmy wrote: »

It would be difficult to collect any tax...especially off people who have paid the extortionate 9% stamp duty already, and who are in negative equity.

The Local Authorities have been given the task of collecting the €200 tax . Community Wardens have already investigated which houses are owner occupied in my area.

I would expect the bills to issue relatively soon .

jimmmy

Do not expect them to be paid anytime soon. Local authorities should be trying to cut costs, reduce wages etc instead of wasting money and resources.

Riskymove

jimmmy wrote: »

Do not expect them to be paid anytime soon. Local authorities should be trying to cut costs, reduce wages etc instead of wasting money and resources.

horrors, i actually agree with Jimmmy

It seems it will cost a lot more than €200 each to collect these payments!!:rolleyes:

waste of time

jimmmy

thank you riskymove

Húrin

gotBass wrote: »

There's an elephant in the room - it's called government expenditure, Let's look at that before we make tax criminals out of people who cannot afford to be otherwise.

The government is already conducting an expenditure blitz on everything but multi-billion euro bank bailouts.

jimmmy

Húrin wrote: »

The government is already conducting an expenditure blitz on everything but multi-billion euro bank bailouts.

Not really, our public servants are still the highest paid ( an average of 966 p.w. ) in the world. Our politicans are also overpaid ...why should Cowen be paid more than the President of the USA, or the PM of UK or France or Japan ? Why is the the head of our central bank the highest paid central banker in the world ? And look at those on the public service gravy train.

Taxing those in huge negative equity while these flaws exist will help nobody.

LoLth

although, more houses for sale = more competition = lower house prices = lower mortgage needed = lower mortgage repayments = people living in the house as their principle dwelling have more disposable income with which to ease the impact of the budget increases.

yay! and those people that invested in property driving the price up so they could rent on of their 4 houses to people who couldnt afford a home of their own without taking out a 100% mortgage , now face negative equity or put more clearly, a loss on their investment because they misread the market and didnt get out in time. boo hoo. Returns on investment have risk attached. sell and take the loss (offset by any profits over the possession of the property) or take the risk and pay the overheads until the market picks up again and try to minimise your losses. Time to make a choice, just like they did originally when they DECIDED to invest in property as a way to earn money.

as long as they leave the primary dwelling / family home alone, I think they should impose the tax and then charge the evader for all costs associated with collection. make the penalty so high that its not worth the effort evading. leave the payment up to the property owner. if its not paid, a record is kept against the property and a % per period penalty levied on any sale price should the property change hands.

dermo88

My idea on a property tax. I would not make it a flat council tax like the British system which is hugely unfair. But I would make some adjustments, and bear in mind, that everyone has to pay a bit, be it 5 Euro, or 5,000 Euro.

1. It never adds up to more than 10% of after tax income.
2. Everyone receives a land tax allowance. In other words they are allowed to own X sq meters of land in Ireland before the are taxed on it.

(a) Ownership is taxed at the highest rate, say 3 Euro per annum per square meter over and above their residential land tax allowance.
(b) Rental property tax is paid by the tenant at a lower rate of 50 cent per annum per square meter as per 2.a. The landlord would pay 50 cent per meter.
(c) Garden space is taxed at the rate of 20 cent per square meter.
(d) Deductions are made depending on the number of residents per property.

3. Instead of mortgage interest relief, the land tax and mortgage interest would be taken into consideration together when it came to income tax payments.

4. This would allow more efficient land use, and actually reduce urban sprawl. It would ensure more sustainable settlement policies for future generations.

5. It MAY prevent the crazy land/asset price boom from happening again to the same degree.

6. Agricultural land is also taxed. Industrial and commercial are taxed. If residential land is taxed, then taxes on the commercial sector can be reduced thereby aiding and facilitating an economic recovery through their ability to reduce their costs imposed by local authorities.

7. It would provide a more sustainable long term cashflow to the exchequer.

8. It may be expensive to administer along this system, but it must be seen to be equitable and fair to all.