Number plate on windscreen.. Legal ??

pa990

Whats the story with having your numberplate inside your windscreen.. is it legal ?

(I cant find the piece of legislation / SI that deals with number plates )

Santa Claus

Only trade plates can be displayed inside the windscreen afaik, normal plates have to be fixed to the car at the front & back !

rai555

Yeah it improves aerodinamics of the car significantly, lot of (boy)racing cars arounds with the plate on the windscreen. I never seen plate on the back screen for some reason :pac:

pa990

Can anyone point me to the relevant legislation.
I've been looking around http://www.irishstatutebook.ie but with no luck

Sponge Bob

The 'side effect' is that they can be instantly turned around at Free Flow Toll plazas .

pa990

Sponge Bob wrote: »

The 'side effect' is that they can be instantly turned around at Free Flow Toll plazas .

if its legal to have it on the dash... i'll put it on the dash.

Thats why i'm looking for the relevant legislation.
All i can find is the prescribed size etc.. nothing about positioning

pa990

I found this.. it seems to be that as long as the front plate is forward facing and vertical.. all is ok.


(7) Subject to the provisions of subparagraph (8), the identification mark of a vehicle shall be exhibited, in the case of a vehicle which has only one front wheel, on the back of the vehicle and, in the case of any other vehicle, on the front of and on the back of the vehicle in a vertical or nearly vertical position, so that every letter or figure of the identification mark is vertical or nearly vertical and is easily distinguishable, in the case of the letters and figures placed on the front of the vehicle, from in front of the vehicle and in the case of the letters and figures placed on the back of the vehicle, from behind the vehicle.

http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/plweb-cgi/fastweb?state_id=1245071509&amp;view=ag-view&amp;docrank=6&amp;numhitsfound=11&amp;query_rule=(($query1)<=YEAR<=($query2)) AND (($query3)):legtitle AND (($query4)):number AND (($query5)):sectionno AND (($query0))&amp;query0=front identifying mark vehicle&amp;docid=20316&amp;docdb=SIs&amp;dbname=Acts&amp;dbname=SIs&amp;sorting=none&amp;operator=and&amp;TemplateName=predoc.tmpl&amp;setCookie=1

Hooch

pa990 wrote: »

I found this.. it seems to be that as long as the front plate is forward facing and vertical.. all is ok.


(7) Subject to the provisions of subparagraph (8), the identification mark of a vehicle shall be exhibited, in the case of a vehicle which has only one front wheel, on the back of the vehicle and, in the case of any other vehicle, on the front of and on the back of the vehicle in a vertical or nearly vertical position, so that every letter or figure of the identification mark is vertical or nearly vertical and is easily distinguishable,

Thats where it will catch you. A vehicle registration plate is not easily distinguishable inside a windscreen. The glare from the windscreen would deminish the view of it. Also it states vertical......are you going to attach it to the windscreen...at an angle or make up a braket??

pa990

nice guy always wrote: »

Thats where it will catch you. A vehicle registration plate is not easily distinguishable inside a windscreen. The glare from the windscreen would deminish the view of it. Also it states vertical......are you going to attach it to the windscreen...at an angle or make up a braket??

i'll cross that toll bridge when i meet it.

Hooch

pa990 wrote: »

i'll cross that toll bridge when i meet it.

So why bother asking anyone here for advice or info?

robbie99

Interesting! So a reg plate has to be in a 'nearly verticle postion'. So if you have it flat on the dash and you're brought to court you can argue to the judge - "Your Honour, the regplate was on the dash and it was in a nearly vertical position. In fact, I'd only have to rotate it 90 degrees to be fully verticle but the legislation doesn't call for it to be fully verticle!"

Bogger77

I presume the near vertical qualification is to cover slopped bumpers on the front of cars.
The text suggests that the char's should be printed to appear vertical, so streched letter to compensate for the angle.

pa990

nice guy always wrote: »

So why bother asking anyone here for advice or info?

my original question was, whether or not it was legal to have a number plate behind the windscreen.
From the SI i eventually found, my interpretation is that it can be anywhere, as long as it is forward facing ina vertical or near vertical position.
That is all needed to know.

I appreciate that you highlighted the point about it being easily distinguishable, however, that matter will not be an issue for the moment.

Gregor Samsa

pa990 wrote: »

I found this.. it seems to be that as long as the front plate is forward facing and vertical.. all is ok.

Not so. The legislation says it has to be "on the front of and on the back of the vehicle". I don't think you could argue that inside the windscreen is on the front.

pa990

phutyle wrote: »

Not so. The legislation says it has to be "on the front of and on the back of the vehicle". I don't think you could argue that inside the windscreen is on the front.

i agree to a point..

But it doesn't specify exactly where on the front of the vehicle. It could be argued that the windscreen is the front of the car..and that the plate is forward facing

Robbo

pa990 wrote: »

i agree to a point..

But it doesn't specify exactly where on the front of the vehicle. It could be argued that the windscreen is the front of the car..and that the plate is forward facing

You may argue that, but any judge is unlikely to accept it. Moreover, a district court judge will take a dim view of this kind of blinkered pedantry.

You appear to have already made up your mind on this and will adapt any statutory provision to suit. I take it you're asking this for less than noble reasons?

Gregor Samsa

pa990 wrote: »

i agree to a point..

But it doesn't specify exactly where on the front of the vehicle. It could be argued that the windscreen is the front of the car..and that the plate is forward facing

On a 1965 VW van, maybe.

On most cars, the bottom of the windscreen is a about a quarter of the length of the vehicle from the front. So I don't think it could be argued - at least not successfully.

pa990

I've seen matters dismissed in Dist Courts when the most ridiculous excuses / reasons / arguments were put forward.

Judges can only deal with the law as it is written, where there is any ambiguity, the presumption of innocence kicks in.


Anyway.. i have my mind made up.
If someone can provide a link or detail of some other SI etc that gives specific information as to the positioning of a front number plate, I would be grateful.
But for the moment "S.I. No. 318/1992:" is all i can locate

thanks

Santa Claus

don't registration plates have to be lit when driving at night to be seen, so are you planning to place a light on the dashboard to illuminate the plate ??

S.I. No. 432 of 1999 which you refer to here only refers to the lettering and dimensions of the plate

pa990 wrote: »

i'll cross that toll bridge when i meet it.

It appears you're trying to get around paying tolls etc which is a bad thing and I would imagine any garda who stopped you would take a dim view of this !

pa990 wrote: »

Anyway.. i have my mind made up.
If someone can provide a link or detail of some other SI etc that gives specific information as to the positioning of a front number plate, I would be grateful.
But for the moment "S.I. No. 318/1992:" is all i can locate

thanks

Why don't you ring your local Garda station and ask them can they point you to the relevant legislation concerning the position of number plates before you potentially break the law rather than asking for legal advice on an internet forum !!!

Omcd

I have the solution ! Buy a Robin Reliant:D If the vehicle has only a single wheel at the front you dont need a reg plate at the front !

Wishbone Ash

pa990 wrote: »

Judges can only deal with the law as it is written, where there is any ambiguity, the presumption of innocence kicks in.

That's a weird kind of logic you have! What happens if the judge asks you why the plate is not where it should be? You appear to be prepared to commit perjury (a very serious offence) to cover for a relatively minor offence.

And would you present you vehicle for an NCT with the plate in the windscreen? Methinks not.

Santa Claus wrote:

don't registration plates have to be lit when driving at night to be seen,

Only the rear plate is legally required to be illuminated.

Sitec

just put them on the car like everyone else does. your only drawing attention to yourself by the shades and the only reason why i think your mounting inside your windscreen is looks whick IMO is stupid. Wait til you see how cool you will look up in court over a stupid offence which your commiting known to yourself!

whippet

inside the windscreen of a normal car is not 'on the front' of the car.

Its simple really, it isn't illegal to have the plates inside the windscreen of a normal car.

That should answer the OP's question.

Santa Claus

Sitec wrote: »

and the only reason why i think your mounting inside your windscreen is looks whick IMO is stupid

The OP hinted strongly that his reason was to avoid toll charges on the M50

mullingar

What if the OP simply breaks a small corner off their reg plate? (across where a mounting screw would go) but it still clearly displayed the full reg number,

so if he/she is stopped by the Guards they can say "sorry guard, somebody must have reversed into the reg plate with a towbar and cracked it so I had to take it off until I get a new one, so the only place for it was the windscreen" type story

Sponge Bob

mullingar wrote: »

so if he/she is stopped by the Guards they can say "sorry guard, somebody must have reversed into the reg plate with a towbar and cracked it so I had to take it off until I get a new one, so the only place for it was the windscreen" type story

When I put it to the OP that there was a side effect he did not deny that the side effect was the desired effect , ie toll evasion .

The Best reason why this is a completely stupid idea and why the ONLY place for it is in the BOOT of the car and not on the windscreen .....is called Newtons First Law Of Motion

Apart from being illegal , as others have explained, it is also stupid .

Illegal and Stupid on a Motorway is bad.

Guy:Incognito

The toll will read the back plate anyway and make the plan pointless will it not?

Sponge Bob

Stekelly wrote: »

The toll will read the back plate anyway and make the plan pointless will it not?

It will at some stage but it does not right now .

Sids Not

How would they describe "vertical".....we're assuming the plate is fixed vertically or tilted back ,but if the plate was pointing towards the ground by that same degree would that be legal.?....just curious.