Collecting money to go on a holiday in the name of charity

Fulton Crown

bobbyjoe wrote: »

Fair play to all those who do this stuff to raise money. At least they are getting off their holes to do something.

Yeah getting off their holes to trouser a nice holl for themselves at the expense of others.....

Ever take the trouble to demograph the leeches who come looking for this kind of money ?

I'll save you the trouble...mainly single women..or bored houswives...who want a group holiday...but unable or too lazy ...to organise it.

Answere ..let somebody else organise it.....and somebody else pay for it ....sorted !

Unsung work pal ...as another poster has pointed out...thats where it's at.

Get real.....

bobbyjoe

Fulton Crown wrote: »

Yeah getting off their holes to trouser a nice holl for themselves at the expense of others.....

Ever take the trouble to demograph the leeches who come looking for this kind of money ?

I'll save you the trouble...mainly single women..or bored houswives...who want a group holiday...but unable or too lazy ...to organise it.

Answere ..let somebody else organise it.....and somebody else pay for it ....sorted !

Unsung work pal ...as another poster has pointed out...thats where it's at.

Get real.....

They raise large amounts of money which otherwise would not be raised. Sounds like jealousy to me.

myk

There are a wide variety of these trips. But they do seem to be becoming more popular, with more treks and journeys. Charities organise these because they are effective at raising money. I think it is always better when the person being sponsored makes a large contribution themselves, particularly to their own expenses element of it. And I think it is important for those raising money to be upfront about where it is going; how much will go to the charity, how much will pay their own expenses.

As for short-term volunteering, while I haven't done it, I think it can still be very worthwhile. As well as the work done, it can give people an insight into the developing world which will stay with them for life. So long as people are realistic about what they can achieve on such a trip and that they have a healthy attititude to the whole thing, I think it can be very worthwhile.

mickydoomsux

Could they not just raise the money and not go on holiday?

myk

mickydoomsux wrote: »

Could they not just raise the money and not go on holiday?

many people do this, there are a lot of different ways of raising money for charity

bobbyjoe

mickydoomsux wrote: »

Could they not just raise the money and not go on holiday?

Think they would raise as much?
There is usually some kind of challenge involved hiking, cycling etc not exactly a holiday.

shane86

Ive just come up with a plan to go to the 2010 world cup for free

Wurly

CAPSLOCK365 wrote: »

They're always so self-rightous about it too.
They don't like their selfishness being pointed out. The money for their food, accomodation and flights comes from the money collected.

Well ours wasn't. We paid for our flights and food ourselves. We stayed in one of the houses built by a team who had been over previously.

We were trained to build by the locals who were on site the whole time. Having us there just meant getting more houses built in such a short space of time.

It was by no means a holiday. We worked 14 hour days.

I see why people would be annoyed and I would be too if the things described on this thread were accurate.

There is no way I would have gone if any of our expenses came out of charity money.

Don't tar us all with the same brush. At least we got off our holes and tried to make a difference, rather than moaning about it on the internet.

BaZmO*

myk wrote: »

Charities organise these because they are effective at raising money.

I think that's the most important point.

Charities know it's effective to offer an incentive to people that otherwise might not bother raising any money at all.
A percentage of something going to a charity is better than all of nothing.

I think the problem lies where some people get the impression from those taking part that they've done a completely unselfish act by going on one of these trips.
If you haven't paid for the trip fully yourself you can't claim that it's totally unselfish.
But the point still remains, at least the charity is getting something that they otherwise might not get. You don't have to give the money if you don't want to.

Trí wrote: »

Don't tar us all with the same brush. At least we got off our holes and tried to make a difference, rather than moaning about it on the internet.

Indeed.

Degsy

Victor wrote: »

Ye know those people who go to Africa to build houses? Why not employ unemployed Africans to build houses? The money would go a lot further.

They pretty much do..its just they go in the role of the Great White Overseer..everybody knows these "volunteers" dont like doing any actual work.

speedboatchase

YFlyer wrote: »

There is a girl here in UL that is raising money to go to Haiti as well

I know someone off to Haiti as well. But it has to be said, Haiti is still in the Carribbean... They were also quite ignorant and blamed all of Haiti's ills on America like most do-gooders, umm... what about France?

Wurly

Degsy wrote: »

They pretty much do..its just they go in the role of the Great White Overseer..everybody knows these "volunteers" dont like doing any actual work.

I beg to differ, Degsy.

I certainly got my hands dirty over there and worked my bollix off. I think it's completely wrong to generalise the way you have.

It's not accurate and from my perspective, I find it pretty offensive as I was one of those "volunteers".

Seaneh

CAPSLOCK365 wrote: »

Walking the great wall of China, working a week in a Moldovan orphanage, building houses in South Africa, climbing Kilimanjaro...while puting their hand in everyone else's pocket except their own to fund their holiday.

You know who you are. You're part of the problem not part of the solution.

Almost all companies who run these events require the person partaking in the event to pay for the expidition out of their own pockets (self funder) or atleast 75% of it (minimum sponsership).

with the self funder programs you pay the ammount upfront and then everypenny ou earn goes to the charity.

'with the minimum sponsership package, you pay a set ammount upfront (usually 80% of the cost) and then agree to raise a certain ammount (usually 150-200% the cost of the expedition).

so if the expidition costs 1k, you pay 800 up front and then agree to raise between 2k and 2.5k, if you dont reach your target you dont go and the charity gets all the money you raised and you lose your despsit.

So really, your rant is way off the mark and you are talking through your hoop.

these events raise an insane ammount of money every year from charities which, whithout them, wouldnt be able to opperate at the levels they do.

ScumLord

I bet it's all a big con. We give them billions every year I just wanted to go so I could prove that. I bet they've one muck hole town where everyone pretends to be poor and hungry but just over the hill their living it up on our charity money cruising around in Bentleys and floating around in swimming pools full of champaign.

carlop

Fratton Fred wrote: »

I know someone who is off to Haiti, the poorest country in the western hemisphere. It's costing her a fortune on top of the couple of grand she is raising.

Good luck to her, it's better than these people who **** off to Oz for a year curtesy of Daddies credit card who then make out they are super cool seen the world types

I also have a friend off to Haiti, not only the poorest country in the western hemisphere, but also one of the most dangerous. He's giving up most of his summer, and has spent a lot of time over the last few months fundraising. I certainly wouldn't want to trade places with him.

It's shortsighted to tarnish anyone who goes abroad for charity with the same brush. A middle-aged woman going to walk the Great Wall of China for a week is one thing, but someone going to live in a remote village and teach children for a month in a country where a large percentage of the population still speak voodoo is another.

mjquinno

I am giving up my time to train IT skills in Africa this summer. Ive been involved with this charity for a year and I have spent 150+ hour in the workshop packing computer in boxes that are getting sent out to schools. I had to raise 2.5k. friends family works collegues bag packing sell my car. to cover my flight and accomadation while im there im working with a team of 15 teaching pc maitenance/ICDL/networking/Web design etc.

To those people who say its a free holiday thats your opinion but maybe look at yourself before you label me with your generalisation brush.

thelordofcheese

Trí wrote: »

I beg to differ, Degsy.

I certainly got my hands dirty over there and worked my bollix off. I think it's completely wrong to generalise the way you have.

It's not accurate and from my perspective, I find it pretty offensive as I was one of those "volunteers".

i wouldn't worry about what degsy says, he's wrong every time he opens his mouth.

It's fairly fuckin' pathetic that when people think they've figured out the great secret of charity work is that people do it to make themselves feel better.
Of course they do, you slaw jawed cretins, that's the only reason anyone does anything. It doesn't take away from the end result being a positive.

Degsy

thelordofcheese wrote: »

that's the only reason anyone does anything. It doesn't take away from the end result being a positive.

Well then why pretend its for the good of others?

I'll tell you why,its so people can have a good old holiday in some pigsty and then do everybody else's head in by talking about it.

FlutterinBantam

hey!!

Bit less of the insults there man.

Steady up here.

What about these so called "celebs" who have this good cause tarnished by their "free" participation.

Don't feel too good to be called cretinous there friend.

Some valid points were made.

tallaght01

I never thought I'd thank a post by Degsy :P

But this is a real bugbear of mine. The best thing you can do for a charity is to fundraise for them. End of.

We don't need you to build gaffs. Mate of mine is just back from some country building gaffs for them. Places will fall down in a year or 2, as he doesn't have a clue what he's doing (he's an accountant). Will there be anyone there to fix their roof during the rainy season? Will there me gee. But that doesn't matter.
The few grand it costs to get the superior white man over to the jungle building gaffs would pay for a lot of workers, or would pay for vital HIV drugs so the locals wouldn't be too sick to build houses.

Individuals with no skills that pay for themselves out of their own pocket to go overseas are probably doing no harm, but are mostly useless. That's why reputable charities don't take them.

Skilled workers are fair enough if you can't get them anywhere. In Africa, you could pay IT guys and lots of other highly skilled punters to travel to other parts of the continent much cheaper than you'd get a mid level IT grad from Ireland to go over there.

Do what you want, but getting people to pay for your flights and accomodations is shameful, an unethical to the extreme, unless you're one of the very small groups of people that genuinely cannot be hired locally.

mjquinno

I will be training teachers who in turn will train kids. getting people locally to do it would be great thats what we are aiming for to work ourselves out of having to do this at all. But in the likes of southern ethiopa there is no one to do it.

We have set up local hubs that in turn employ people to run maintain and fix machines.

Some continue to in turn teach others int the area.

i fundraised about 700 of the 2500. for that i am in no way ashamed, in fact anyone who supported me was very in support of what we do.

Maybe you would like to come down by the workshop and see what its about for yourself

tallaght01

mjquinno wrote: »

I will be training teachers who in turn will train kids. getting people locally to do it would be great thats what we are aiming for to work ourselves out of having to do this at all. But in the likes of southern ethiopa there is no one to do it.

We have set up local hubs that in turn employ people to run maintain and fix machines.

Some continue to in turn teach others int the area.

i fundraised about 700 of the 2500. for that i am in no way ashamed, in fact anyone who supported me was very in support of what we do.

Maybe you would like to come down by the workshop and see what its about for yourself

I'm not trying to be bad. But IT skills are not particularly high up on Ethiopian kids priorities.

Do they have broadband at home???

I just think you need to look at the bigger picture when it comes to aid. Like I said, I don't think you're doing any harm if you're shelling out for it yourself. But bringing IT skills to a tiny pocket of a country like that isn't something I'd be funding your flights and accomomdation for.

admiralofthefleet

that money was just resting in my account

mjquinno

admiralofthefleet wrote: »

that money was just resting in my account

2nd post

Degsy

tallaght01 wrote: »

I'm not trying to be bad. But IT skills are not particularly high up on Ethiopian kids priorities.

Do they have broadband at home???

I just think you need to look at the bigger picture when it comes to aid. Like I said, I don't think you're doing any harm if you're shelling out for it yourself. But bringing IT skills to a tiny pocket of a country like that isn't something I'd be funding your flights and accomomdation for.

IT training..in ethiopia?
It shows the mindset of the sort of people who are volunteering.
Where's the digging of wells,the clearing of minefields,the planting of crops?
These IT professionals dont want to get their hands dirty but they DO want to tell everybody about thier time in ethiopia.

admiralofthefleet

mjquinno wrote: »

2nd post

about half 11 this morning. are you expecting a package or a bill?

myk

tallaght01 wrote: »

I'm not trying to be bad. But IT skills are not particularly high up on Ethiopian kids priorities.

Do they have broadband at home???

I just think you need to look at the bigger picture when it comes to aid. Like I said, I don't think you're doing any harm if you're shelling out for it yourself. But bringing IT skills to a tiny pocket of a country like that isn't something I'd be funding your flights and accomomdation for.

You don't think IT skills are needed in Africa? Those who get such training are much more employable and productive when in employment.

myk

Degsy wrote: »

IT training..in ethiopia?
It shows the mindset of the sort of people who are volunteering.
Where's the digging of wells,the clearing of minefields,the planting of crops?
These IT professionals dont want to get their hands dirty but they DO want to tell everybody about thier time in ethiopia.

there is a need across Africa for all sorts of work including IT training and digging wells

mjquinno

i dont know how to dig well/build houses etc.

i do know how to train people in IT skills.

IvyTheTerrible

Degsy wrote: »

IT training..in ethiopia?
It shows the mindset of the sort of people who are volunteering.
Where's the digging of wells,the clearing of minefields,the planting of crops?
These IT professionals dont want to get their hands dirty but they DO want to tell everybody about thier time in ethiopia.

How patronising. Do you think no one uses computers in Ethiopia?

faceman

tallaght01 wrote: »

I'm not trying to be bad. But IT skills are not particularly high up on Ethiopian kids priorities.

Do they have broadband at home???

I just think you need to look at the bigger picture when it comes to aid. Like I said, I don't think you're doing any harm if you're shelling out for it yourself. But bringing IT skills to a tiny pocket of a country like that isn't something I'd be funding your flights and accomomdation for.

Actually we might need to get some of those Ethiopians to fundraise to train up some Paddies...

http://archives.tcm.ie/businesspost/2006/05/14/story14172.asp

tallaght01

There is a need for IT skills when there's an IT infrastructure. When the economy is heavily reliant on IT skills. But not at a cost of 2500euro for a school.

Probably about 20% of ethiopians with HIV have access to drugs that cost $100 a year. It costs $10 to buy a net to protect against malaria, one of the biggest killers in the developing world.

How many vaccines, water purification kits etc would 2500k buy.

I just think it's a crazy use of the money. Like I said, I've no real objection to the project itself, just the funding of it.

myk

tallaght01 wrote: »

There is a need for IT skills when there's an IT infrastructure. When the economy is heavily reliant on IT skills. But not at a cost of 2500euro for a school.

Probably about 20% of ethiopians with HIV have access to drugs that cost $100 a year. It costs $10 to buy a net to protect against malaria, one of the biggest killers in the developing world.

How many vaccines, water purification kits etc would 2500k buy.

I just think it's a crazy use of the money. Like I said, I've no real objection to the project itself, just the funding of it.

There is a need for IT skills in every economy in the world. If you want a government capable of delivering HIV drugs and anti-malaria nets efficiently then it will need employees with IT skills. Ditto with NGOs.

mjquinno

tallaght01 wrote: »

There is a need for IT skills when there's an IT infrastructure. When the economy is heavily reliant on IT skills. But not at a cost of 2500euro for a school.

Probably about 20% of ethiopians with HIV have access to drugs that cost $100 a year. It costs $10 to buy a net to protect against malaria, one of the biggest killers in the developing world.

How many vaccines, water purification kits etc would 2500k.

I just think it's a crazy use of the money. Like I said, I've no real objection to the project itself, just the funding of it.

We teach maybe off the top of my head 35 - 40 teacher who in turn go back to their own schools and teach what we thought them. that probably 25 + schools with teachers that can now teach IT in their computer labs.

I agree all those other stuff is still needed however do you not think people still have a right to be thought IT skills also?

I do take your point the money would be better off being spent there that the goal all we would do is send the computers - but until the know how is in the country we would be simply be dumping the machines there. for the next few years we will need to provide the skills.

I use to be the exact same questioning the motives on why people do this things. I do recognise i get something out of it. I get a good feeling. if i have to fundraise for it and people around want to contribute something theres worse thing in the world im sure

IvyTheTerrible

myk wrote: »

There is a need for IT skills in every economy in the world. If you want a government capable of delivering HIV drugs and anti-malaria nets efficiently then it will need employees with IT skills. Ditto with NGOs.

Yep. I know someone working in Zambia for the last six months and internet is cripplingly expensive over there, so they can't even download basic stuff. So we have been sending her over usb keys with anti-virus software, basic stuff like that to put on people's computers.

Degsy

25 years ago Bob Geldof was scabbing money to send to ethiopia in the biggest publicity stunt in the world..did he solve anything?
He made himself a multimillionaire and not a whole lot else.

tallaght01

myk wrote: »

There is a need for IT skills in every economy in the world. If you want a government capable of delivering HIV drugs and anti-malaria nets efficiently then it will need employees with IT skills. Ditto with NGOs.

You're interpreting "I have no problem with the project. But I don't think this is what we should be diverting our charity money to, as it's a low priority"

as

"Ethiopians don't need IT people".

If this project was the type of thing that development agencies get involved in to build an IT infrastructure, by setting up a uni dept and training lecturers etc, then it would be a bit more palatable. Don't mix up a school based programme consting the guts of 3k euro with "bringing IT to Ethiopia".

But the HIV drug programmes haven't traditionally been reliant on infrastructure at the end of the day, which is why they're been (relatively) successful.

It's all about cost/benefit. It is simply poor value for money to shell out 3k euro to teach a few kids how to use google chrome.

myk

tallaght01 wrote: »

You're interpreting "I have no problem with the project. But I don't think this is what we should be diverting our charity money to, as it's a low priority"

as

"Ethiopians don't need IT people".

If this project was the type of thing that development agencies get involved in to build an IT infrastructure, by setting up a uni dept and training lecturers etc, then it would be a bit more palatable. Don't mix up a school based programme consting the guts of 3k euro with "bringing IT to Ethiopia".

But the HIV drug programmes haven't traditionally been reliant on infrastructure at the end of the day, which is why they're been (relatively) successful.

It's all about cost/benefit. It is simply poor value for money to shell out 3k euro to teach a few kids how to use google chrome.

Tell me what do you know about HIV drug programmes in Ethiopia?

I'm sure the other poster on this thread isn't teaching google chrome. if you want to make your point more effectively you shouldn't be so patronising!

Degsy

tallaght01 wrote: »

It is simply poor value for money to shell out 3k euro to teach a few kids how to use google chrome.

Even the poor need porno!

mjquinno

ive got to run but it was good to have a discussion about this.
thanks for all your replies & debate.

tallaght01

myk wrote: »

Tell me what do you know about HIV drug programmes in Ethiopia?

I'm sure the other poster on this thread isn't teaching google chrome. if you want to make your point more effectively you shouldn't be so patronising!

I know a lot more about HIV programmes in Ethiopia than you might think.

I was implying that he wasn't going to teach them high end IT skills. But I don't want this to be about this guy's project...or we'll give him a complex :P

It's about the public funding little projects that exist in isolation, and that are low priorities. I'm sure this guy is a lovely bloke. I just think the dollars should come from his own pocket. But, at the end of the day, that's a bigger issue than one IT project.

jill_valentine

The IT skill programmes are part of a long-term strategy of establishing and maintaining a self reliant infrastructure.

So on the one hand, there's muttering about how short-term fundraisers like Band Aid don't fix anything in the long run, and on the other hand, muttering about how long-term measures shouldn't be a priority because the money would be better used in the short run.

So tell us, wise AH, what should be done?

The idiocy going on in this thread is making my brain cells spray out my ears.

speedboatchase wrote: »

I know someone off to Haiti as well. But it has to be said, Haiti is still in the Carribbean...

Mind-blowing. Absolutely mind-blowing.

myk

tallaght01 wrote: »

I know a lot more about HIV programmes in Ethiopia than you might think.

have you been there? have you worked in connection with such projects?

tallaght01 wrote: »

I was implying that he wasn't going to teach them high end IT skills. But I don't want this to be about this guy's project...or we'll give him a complex :P

It's about the public funding little projects that exist in isolation, and that are low priorities. I'm sure this guy is a lovely bloke. I just think the dollars should come from his own pocket. But, at the end of the day, that's a bigger issue than one IT project.

His project isn't going to end poverty in Ethiopia, but it could make a reasonable difference for dozens of people, and if it does that then his time and money is well spent. So long as he is up front with the people who be raises money from, I don't see the problem. It doesn't stand in the way of other bigger picture projects. If anything in a small way it could help such efforts.

tallaght01

jill_valentine wrote: »

The IT skill programmes are part of a long-term strategy of establishing and maintaining a self reliant infrastructure.

So on the one hand, there's muttering about how short-term fundraisers like Band Aid don't fix anything in the long run, and on the other hand, muttering about how long-term measures shouldn't be a priority.

So tell us, wise AH, what should be done?

The idiocy going on in this thread is making my brain cells spray out my ears.



Mind-blowing. Absolutely mind-blowing.

I don't know hoe to fix the developin world. But Band-Aid, to the best of my knowledge was only quick in terms of HOW they raised the money. I thought it all went into sustainable projects.

As for the IT programmes comment....again I wasn't saying there should be no attempt at bringing IT to developing countries. But I don't think local expensive projects are what developing countries need. Most kids don't have computers, and there has to be difficulties getting parts etc for computers when they break. You should be able to get IT people and computers from South africa for less than that kind of money. There needs to be a country-wide strategy for infrastructural issues.

tallaght01

myk wrote: »

have you been there? have you worked in connection with such projects?



His project isn't going to end poverty in Ethiopia, but it could make a reasonable difference for dozens of people, and if it does that then his time and money is well spent. So long as he is up front with the people who be raises money from, I don't see the problem. It doesn't stand in the way of other bigger picture projects. If anything in a small way it could help such efforts.

I've worked in africa, though not specifically in Ethiopia. I'm a HIV public health sub-specialist, and am going to Papua new Guinea to help implement a national HIV strategy in September. I have a lectureship at the local uni in the school of international health. Though I only lecture occasionally. I know a bit about HIV strategies. And I know how local-based initiatives have been a financial black hole.

Again, I on't want to make this about the guy we're discussin. But it's a lot of money. Having said that, it's infinitely better than going to China to go for a walk in the name of charity. I genuinely think the IT guy is trying to do the right thing. I don't know how the walkers/hikers/runners believe that they are.

myk

tallaght01 wrote: »

I've worked in africa, though not specifically in Ethiopia. I'm a HIV public health sub-specialist, and am going to Papua new Guinea to help implement a national HIV strategy in September. I have a lectureship at the local uni in the school of international health. Though I only lecture occasionally. I know a bit about HIV strategies. And I know how local-based initiatives have been a financial black hole.

fair play. but a lot of larger organisations can be financial black holes as well. as I said before the IT training will be beneficial to those who get the training, and IT training generally will be useful for the country as a whole.

now if you had a less patronising attitude (ie not referring to teaching google chrome to a couple of kids) you might get your point across much more effectively

tallaght01 wrote: »

Again, I on't want to make this about the guy we're discussin. But it's a lot of money. Having said that, it's infinitely better than going to China to go for a walk in the name of charity. I genuinely think the IT guy is trying to do the right thing. I don't know how the walkers/hikers/runners believe that they are.

I wouldn't do some of the Chinese treks etc myself, but if people pay their own personal expenses themselves then I don't see the harm, and the money raised should be beneficial for the charities involved.

thelordofcheese

Degsy wrote: »

Well then why pretend its for the good of others?

The two aren't mutually exclusive, you can do something that makes you feel good about yourself AND benefit someone else. it's pretty much the concept upon which all charity is based.

Degsy wrote: »

I'll tell you why,its so people can have a good old holiday in some pigsty and then do everybody else's head in by talking about it.

yes.. that's exactly it. everything is a conspiracy to ruin your day....

jill_valentine

tallaght01 wrote: »

Most kids don't have computers, and there has to be difficulties getting parts etc for computers when they break. You should be able to get IT people and computers from South africa for less than that kind of money. There needs to be a country-wide strategy for infrastructural issues.

This is what does my head in. Mouthing off about something without having done your homework.

Camara salvage and refurbish computers that people are dumping in Ireland. They fix them up, install hardy practical software packages, and then test them. They have volunteers doing that all year round; then, during summer, they go over and train the locals up on them.

The computers are provided by the charity, and are, ultimately, used mainly for educational purposes - but for that to happen, people need to be available locally to repair and maintain them.

Hence IT skills training.

Tchaikovsky

My, what a cynical bunch.

Quint

Victor wrote: »

Ye know those people who go to Africa to build houses? Why not employ unemployed Africans to build houses? The money would go a lot further.

My mate is doing this and has to raise €5k to pay for his flights and accomidation. Thing is, I spent a month in the same country on holidays and flights and accomidation cost me €1k, and that wasn't even the cheapest I could have got! There's plenty of workers and companies over there that should be paid to do the work instead. My mate needs 5k to do 2 weeks work, that where the average annual wage there is about €300.

bobbyjoe wrote: »

They raise large amounts of money which otherwise would not be raised. Sounds like jealousy to me.

Or maybe the same amount of money would be raised, but given to proper charities instead of funding holidays? For instance Mary won't give any money to GOAL cos she just sponsored John a tenner to trek the inca trail