Poker Forum

Theresalwaysone

Rb wrote: »

Of course he had a choice and his actions were way, way OTT and it all falls back to having no idea what he was doing.

It highlights a huge issue surrounding the growth of boards, as I pointed out in the other thread here, that the heirarchy simply cannot keep up with the growth of the sub-communities and in trying to do what's "best", may indeed cause a huge amount of damage to both the community and actual data. Examples being Kinetics OTT Nazi behaviour and it driving people off the site, Gordon locking and shifting BBV, the deletion of Nicnicnic's % thread etc.

All of those actions were taken in ignorance to both their relevance in the community/forum and ignorance to the consequences both structurally and to the community "spirit" or "feeling" or whatever the hell you want to call it.

Regardless, his attitude was unbelievable.

I agree his attitude was ridiculous and I dont want to come across like Im fighting his corner because I disgaree with a lot of what he has done.

I dont think its fair though to abuse him for his ignorance. Thats no better than giving a newbie crap over folding KK pre to a 3bet. He didnt know any better and he (kinetic) didnt have much time to familiarise himself with the forum.

He was trying to damage control, and in doing so, caused more, but I doubt it was down to anything malicious. More down to ignorance like you said.

Tar.Aldarion

Theresalwaysone wrote: »

I know I was quite vocal about this whole issue but after rethinking I dont know if he had much of a choice?

I mean, he was sort of stuck between a rock and a hard place. He needed to keep some sort of order and that was always going to prove hard given the atmosphere in the forum. Anything he did was going to be scrutinised, he could have gone about it a better way I agree but he was certainly in a catch 22 situation.

I think he could have read the old bbv, made an intro message and asked for our help during the obviously difficult time but we all make mistakes.

Anyway, Kinetic Im sorry for my reactionary approach towards your moderation, I now realise how difficult it must have been.

The way I see it is, the poker mods stepped down. He was the games category mod so had to step in and mod for a few days until the situation was dealt with. And to an outsider, the poker forum is a mystery, people can't even understand most of the posts and terms, let alone know how to moderate it well. So he was ignorant of how to moderate it, and is given a lot of attitude, but does know that some poker users have been acting up in recently and that is why he has to step in. So it is moderated more stringently than before and moderated like how some other forums are moderated on this site. All forums are not moderated to the same degree and a good few are moderated much stricter than what the poker forum regulars are used to. Instead of explaining which of the things he did shouldn't have been done and perhaps being civil about it, he was mocked/abused? A lot of the poker posters seem to be showing much more ignorance than he.


Now I don't know all of it, have just read a few threads and that is what it looked like.

Wreck

Tar.Aldarion wrote: »

The way I see it is, the poker mods stepped down. He was the games category mod so had to step in and mod for a few days until the situation was dealt with. And to an outsider, the poker forum is a mystery, people can't even understand most of the posts and terms, let alone know how to moderate it well. So he was ignorant of how to moderate it, and is given a lot of attitude, but does know that some poker users have been acting up in recently and that is why he has to step in. So it is moderated more stringently than before and moderated like how some other forums are moderated on this site. All forums are not moderated to the same degree and a good few are moderated much stricter than what the poker forum regulars are used to. Instead of explaining which of the things he did shouldn't have been done and perhaps being civil about it, he was mocked/abused? A lot of the poker posters seem to be showing much more ignorance than he.


Now I don't know all of it, have just read a few threads and that is what it looked like.

Yeah, I agree with most of this to be fair, Kinetic^ was in a really difficult position and lack of knowledge of the way the forum usually works may have led to making a few bad calls.

Theresalwaysone

Wreck wrote: »

Yeah, I agree with most of this to be fair, Kinetic^ was in a really difficult position and lack of knowledge of the way the forum usually works may have led to making a few bad calls.

This is exactly what I said though?

Wreck

Theresalwaysone wrote: »

This is exactly what I said though?

I have you on ignore.

Rb

Surely then this entire thing is sufficient evidence to say that such people shouldn't be put in the position to inflict such damage in the first place?

The Poker forum is a huge forum on boards, similar in size/traffic to AH and the other big 'uns that I can't remember right now, surely a stanger shouldn't be given the power to mess with it in any way they see fit.

Regardless, he owes the forum and its posters an apology. There were lots of better ways to deal with it, and he went down the worst route and took a "fuck you" attitude while doing so.

nicnicnic

look my head was exploding following what was going on and whether through ignorance or not, I had no doubt in my mind that Kinetic^ moding was about to put the final nail in a forum I have grown to love over the last three years.

If I offended you I apologies as it was heat of the moment.

randylonghorn

nicnicnic wrote: »

look my head was exploding following what was going on and whether through ignorance or not, I had no doubt in my mind that Kinetic^ moding was about to put the final nail in a forum I have grown to love over the last three years.

And that's fair enough tbh.

I think a lot of heads were exploding over the last few days, probably including Kinetic's.

Thread die now?!

mewso

Can I ask the admins what is the status of the 3? posters banned over all of this?

Sully

Jesus lads, give Kinetic^ a break. He isn't used to how things were done, he is modding like he would anywhere else. He doesn't know you. Your old team of mods are/were on strike and Kinetic^ is trying to handle a busy forum which he is not used to all by himself. Bare with him, advise him nicely and give him a break.

If the older mods get their pay deal (:P) sorted and the strike is called off - then all will restore back to normal. Until then, patience for the new guy who is not used to your communities way of dealing with things. Instead of showering abuse at him, try point out nicely over PM what your used to.

Rb

Sorry Sully but were you around for any of the shit he was doing?

Any of it?

Sully

Rb wrote: »

Sorry Sully but were you around for any of the shit he was doing?

Any of it?

Sorry, ill admit I wasn't. I glimpsed but felt that it was because he was not familiar with how things worked in the forum. As soon as the old mods get off strike, all will be sorted hopefully. In the mean time, hopefully he will learn from any mistakes and try get on with you guys but all I say is give him a chance and remember this is a whole different environment most folk would find hard to take on.

Rb

Sully wrote: »

Sorry, ill admit I wasn't.

Aha, thanks for that.

Anyway, your points just relate back to what I said earlier. It shouldn't be possible for someone with no knowledge of the community and its values to mess with a forum that is as big as Poker, AH, PI (?) etc in the first place and this will happen again in the future if boards continues to grow and it remains un-dealt with.

People may find it hard to "take on" these situations with little or no knowledge of the people and subjects involved, so they shouldn't have the capability to as far as I'm concerned as they'll only do more damage than good and this recently example highlights this perfectly.

I also do not think a community that has been completely fucked with should be then given the responsibility of sending polite messages to the stranger meddling with their stuff to say "You're doing it wrong". Enough people were already saying that publicly and yet he continued thinking he knew best and firing from the hip.

It's not on and it's sad to see people defending it as they are.

mewso

I'm sure the lads contacted kinetic by pm first to explain their issues, explain the importance of the wsop% thread and so on before complaining here. I mean you did do that didn't you?

Lurker1977

Hey Rb, can you suggest an alternative then cos with all the mods unavailable and with the situation the way it was, I cant many of the regs stepping in to mod while it all got sorted. He was the only one apart from the admins to be able to mod in there and while I completely disagree with how he handled it, there wasn't anybody else to do it. And for clarification, I was there and did see a lot of the deleted posts, nicnicnic's thread.

Rb

All the mods weren't unavailable though.

Also, err'ing on the side of caution may have been a better bet than coming out all guns firing in unknown directions.

Sully

Rb wrote: »

Aha, thanks for that.

Anyway, your points just relate back to what I said earlier. It shouldn't be possible for someone with no knowledge of the community and its values to mess with a forum that is as big as Poker, AH, PI (?) etc in the first place and this will happen again in the future if boards continues to grow and it remains un-dealt with.

People may find it hard to "take on" these situations with little or no knowledge of the people and subjects involved, so they shouldn't have the capability to as far as I'm concerned as they'll only do more damage than good and this recently example highlights this perfectly.

I also do not think a community that has been completely fucked with should be then given the responsibility of sending polite messages to the stranger meddling with their stuff to say "You're doing it wrong". Enough people were already saying that publicly and yet he continued thinking he knew best and firing from the hip.

It's not on and it's sad to see people defending it as they are.

Well, the forum grew around the mods that are on strike. Someone had to step in and nobody has the experience to know how it works. Its obvious it wasn't going to work but it was either that or leave everyone do what they want while the lads remained on strike which would not be allowed to happen. That much is obvious to me and I have no interest in Poker or the forum.

I feel for you guys and your complaints, but I think in this Feedback thread its safe to say the mod just has no idea whats expect and had to rule as normal which goes against the grain of the forum. Dont blame him, blame the mods for being on strike (I hate to say it, as there a great bunch) and letting it go to wreck and ruin. Like holding the admins to random really.

Sully

Rb wrote: »

All the mods weren't unavailable though.

Also, err'ing on the side of caution may have been a better bet than coming out all guns firing in unknown directions.

lol perhaps that's true, everyone mods differently and with the knowledge of recent behaviour in that forum - I guess he decided to go in guns firing in a community which will piss off to that type of ruling and will damage Boards and not them. He didn't know that tho.

Lurker1977

Rb wrote: »

All the mods weren't unavailable though.

Also, err'ing on the side of caution may have been a better bet than coming out all guns firing in unknown directions.

I agree he handled it the worst way possible but others did not help the situation either. Tbh it seems as tho the issues have been resolved between the mods and admins so Im not sure if this thread is still needed.

I do think that considering the environment in which bans were handed out perhaps kinetic might review them in a different light and perhaps reduce/expunge them but thats up to him I suppose.

cooker3

Sully wrote: »

Well, the forum grew around the mods that are on strike. Someone had to step in and nobody has the experience to know how it works. Its obvious it wasn't going to work but it was either that or leave everyone do what they want while the lads remained on strike which would not be allowed to happen. That much is obvious to me and I have no interest in Poker or the forum.

I feel for you guys and your complaints, but I think in this Feedback thread its safe to say the mod just has no idea whats expect and had to rule as normal which goes against the grain of the forum. Dont blame him, blame the mods for being on strike (I hate to say it, as there a great bunch) and letting it go to wreck and ruin. Like holding the admins to random really.

Without going down this road too much again. The mods were perfectly right to go on strike like they did. It's the powers that be that shouldn't A) let it have spiraled out of control like it did and put someone in charge who blatantly didn't understand the general vibe of the forum.
It's no exaggeration to say a few more days like the last 2 and forum would have been near dead in future.

I do agree with RB that this whole incident does show a general disconnect between the users and mods of the poker forum and the non regulars especially mods and admins. It was very noticeable in the feedback superthread that every reg of the poker forum who posted was in agreement that something was majorly wrong while the people arguing the other side have in no way participated in the poker forum. Hopefully this is something which was discussed over the last few days. I think if Devore hadn't being an original driving force behind poker it would have been a very different outcome.

Ste05

Haven't read the whole thread, but I wanted to reply to this:

seamus wrote: »

Want to post that in English Dave? Or even Engrish might work

Edit: Cheers guys. Seems odd that these kinds of transactions are carried out on boards, but if that's what ye've been doing up to now...

It's worth noting that threads will rarely be completely deleted. As you've spotted, any such actions can be undone (usually quickly!).

The Poker World is unbelievably Reputation based, someone without a good reputation quite simply couldn't raise €1 in backing, someone with a reputation could raise tens of thousands.

In the Poker World, and on all Poker Forums around the World these types of threads are very common, they are also made with everyone involved knowing the forum is merely a facilitator and public record of the deal, hence why they have always been allowed on the forum, there is nothing unusual about them in the Poker world.

Anyway, I haven't read the rest of the thread and won't tonight.

Ste05

cardshark202

This drama is getting old now. Its over. Move on.

Kinetic^

Rb wrote: »

Sorry Sully but were you around for any of the shit he was doing?

Any of it?

Sorry but I wasn't carrying out "shit" as you put it. I was trying to keep things in line by asking people to stop talking about the BBV incident and also asked people to keep the outgoing moderator thread to just posts of gratitude. I did not run into the forum and start banning left right and centre like you're trying to make out.

Rb wrote: »

Regardless, he owes the forum and its posters an apology.

No, no I don't. Some of the users owe me an apology for the abuse that was thrown my way, you included.

The Sweeper

Folks

The poker mods weren't available when Kinetic stepped in. They were extremely upset by what was going on, and had stepped away from moderating the forum.

Some of you may not appreciate the literally hundreds and hundreds of posts that have gone back and forth between the poker mods and the admins over the BBV issue, and the hours and hours of time spent by both parties in those discussions.

As a result, the poker mods as far as I know had little or no input into what Kinetic was doing on their forum - and Kinetic was doing the best he could with the information he had.

At this point I would appreciate vastly if you could all just step back a moment from this matter. If you have a question or statement to make, that's fine, ask or state. If you've just typed the internet equivalent of a hand grenade, please sit back from the keyboard and count to ten before you decide to click the 'post' button.

This is gaining speed like an avalanche heading towards a ski resort, and it would be great if you could all just put the brakes on before this becomes a bigger issue than the original BBV matter.

eagle eye

I contacted Kinetic about deleting my post and locking that thread before he deleted it. I asked why he deleted my post and locked the thread. I never got a response and then the thread disappeared. I have never had any dealings with Kinetic other than in the NBA playoffs thread but he decides I'm not worthy of a response when I don't post about it on the forum but send a pm out of respect instead.
Enough said on that.

Now we have two bbv threads, one on here and one on another forum. You just couldn't leave it open while you discussed it and saved us all this bother. The actions that were taken were way over the top.

Furthermore we tried to discuss it and threads were being shut down on this forum as well rather than let us have our say. This clearly was going to do nothing else but cause more outrage


You treated the moderators with contempt and disrespect.
I put it to you that when you seen the support the poker forum moderators got from the community it made you feel that they were not doing their jobs. They don't go around like Nazi police but still control a very busy forum. Imo all the moderators(especially of busy forums) should take a look at the poker forum and take heed of how you can control a forum without having to go to extreme measures.

Lastly we had two moderators visit the poker forum and post in this thread. http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055595086
This was just an excercise in flame baiting from Guan Yin and then Thaedydal. Maybe you admins can have a look at that, its similar to what started all of this the other day. They could have contacted our moderators in the mod forum or by pm as I'm sure you and they are well aware.

I'm finding it hard to get over this, I don't know how its going to work out but its definetely left a bitter taste.

The Sweeper

eagle eye wrote: »

I contacted Kinetic about deleting my post and locking that thread before he deleted it. I asked why he deleted my post and locked the thread. I never got a response and then the thread disappeared. I have never had any dealings with Kinetic other than in the NBA playoffs thread but he decides I'm not worthy of a response when I don't post about it on the forum but send a pm out of respect instead.
Enough said on that.

Now we have two bbv threads, one on here and one on another forum. You just couldn't leave it open while you discussed it and saved us all this bother. The actions that were taken were way over the top.

Furthermore we tried to discuss it and threads were being shut down on this forum as well rather than let us have our say. This clearly was going to do nothing else but cause more outrage


You treated the moderators with contempt and disrespect.
I put it to you that when you seen the support the poker forum moderators got from the community it made you feel that they were not doing their jobs. They don't go around like Nazi police but still control a very busy forum. Imo all the moderators(especially of busy forums) should take a look at the poker forum and take heed of how you can control a forum without having to go to extreme measures.

Lastly we had two moderators visit the poker forum and post in this thread. http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055595086
This was just an excercise in flame baiting from Guan Yin and then Thaedydal. Maybe you admins can have a look at that, its similar to what started all of this the other day. They could have contacted our moderators in the mod forum or by pm as I'm sure you and they are well aware.

I'm finding it hard to get over this, I don't know how its going to work out but its definetely left a bitter taste.

If you are referring to the fact that there's this thread on Feedback, and a second thread on the Poker forum, the Poker Mods specifically requested the thread started by DeV on the Poker forum. It's a thread in which apologies have been made and future directions are being sorted out. It is actually more relevant to the future of Poker on boards.ie than this thread is.

Ponster

Without trying to dig up what I hope is now 'water under the bridge', nor appear like a troll....do the poker regulars think that a better solution would maybe have been to lock the entire poker forum until the original problem had been resolved?

Sully

cooker3 wrote: »

Without going down this road too much again. The mods were perfectly right to go on strike like they did. It's the powers that be that shouldn't A) let it have spiraled out of control like it did and put someone in charge who blatantly didn't understand the general vibe of the forum.
It's no exaggeration to say a few more days like the last 2 and forum would have been near dead in future.

I'm not saying if what they did was right or wrong. I understand everyone's frustration but jesus this should now be water under the bridge and the lads should be off strike by now surely.

I do agree with RB that this whole incident does show a general disconnect between the users and mods of the poker forum and the non regulars especially mods and admins. It was very noticeable in the feedback superthread that every reg of the poker forum who posted was in agreement that something was majorly wrong while the people arguing the other side have in no way participated in the poker forum. Hopefully this is something which was discussed over the last few days. I think if Devore hadn't being an original driving force behind poker it would have been a very different outcome.

Happens everywhere on Boards, just ignore it. The main thing is that the admins knew who was part of Poker and had a proper right to comment on the situation. Unless you have an interest in Poker, don't expect people to know much about your forums working

Beruthiel

Well done to Kinetic^ for jumping in at the deep end and doing his level best under difficult circumstances.

youcrazyjesus!

I'm only learning poker so I don't post but I read almost every thread with interest on poker and admire the good fun and comradery between everyone there. I just have to say the jaw dropping stupidity and heavyhandedness of this man's moderation should be looked at by the every mod as an example of how not to do things. I have to post this after seeing his response to Redjoker's fantastic and humourous take on the situation. Then threatening people with banning for liking the montage. Unbelievable.