Romanians Victims of Racist Attacks

wes

bernardo mac wrote: »

Obviously these orchestrated attacks on foreigners or anyone who seems to be different to the tunnel visioned assailants, are not uncommon in the North.There have been assaults and murders here too.There is intolerance on both sides of the Border...but imagine merging with the Six,professional bigotry,inbred hatred ,xenophobic and dangerous turds et al included, as part of the deal!:eek:

No need to paint everyone in the North with the same brush. The people who fled from there homes, were being helped by a Pastor at a near by church for instance.

getz

i have still to see any news agencies reports to say that it organised[ or have even hinted] its loyalism, most of the facts say its gangs of young idiots that are the problem,thats what the locals and police are saying, but there is still a lot of people who are unwilling to believe that not every problem is not conected to the passed troubles ,you see i think they deep down hope it is

Can'tseeme

getz wrote: »

i have still to see any news agencies reports to say that it organised[ or have even hinted] its loyalism, most of the facts say its gangs of young idiots that are the problem,thats what the locals and police are saying, but there is still a lot of people who are unwilling to believe that not every problem is not conected to the passed troubles ,you see i think they deep down hope it is

It's to do with the sectarian/racist problems in loyalist areas, end of. I live in Belfast, this is common knowledge.

getz

Can'tseeme wrote: »

It's to do with the sectarian/racist problems in loyalist areas, end of. I live in Belfast, this is common knowledge.

i hope very much you are wrong,when they get these lads we will know for sure wont we

Dozen Wicked Words

Hagar wrote: »

Did you even read the links?

The BBC have reported that Loyalist Paramiliatary groups are suspected of being involved although this is denied. It doesn't say if they have condemned the attacks but I'm sure they will in the fullness of time.

Is it OK if it is only gangs of marauding nazi youths are doing this as opposed to organized gangs of marauding nazi youths?

I have read the links you have provided.

Weak "evidence" that out of three links you offer, the proof you obviously need for this thread is a "suspicion" of Loyalist Paramilitary involvement. This has been denied. That is enough to suggest a link between Nazism and Loyalism?

A tenuous link between obviously drunken, obnoxious youths and organised paramilitarism. It is NOT OK for any gangs of marauding nazi youths to terrorise innocent people, but your thread is not concerned about that, it is being used as a stick to beat Loyalism in general.

I have no love for Loyalism or Unionism in general but this thread is a poor attempt at point scoring.

Can'tseeme

Can'tseeme wrote: »

put up Israeli flags in their areas to counter attack nationalist support for Palestine.

Proper order too. I never quite got the mutual backslapping amongst terrorist fellow travellers around the world. You hate Jews? Sure we hate Brits. We're so alike.

Anyway, anyone got any information, or indeed concern, about what will happen to the Romanian victims, or are we still just focusing on how awful Loyalists are?

bernardo mac

wes wrote: »

No need to paint everyone in the North with the same brush. The people who fled from there homes, were being helped by a Pastor at a near by church for instance.

I didn't.Obviously there are many exceptionally tolerant and humane people of numerous political hues and religious or non-religious persuasion.Indeed ,that's one reason for the progress made towards reconciliation.But there is a deep and lethal resistance to a healthy social/political society embedded in the psyche of many on the so called Orange and Green divide.

Can'tseeme

getz wrote: »

i hope very much you are wrong,when they get these lads we will know for sure wont we

Mate, these areas have very much a seige mentality. Unless your British and Protestant then your not welcome. Whether the UDA is involved or not is relevant. More needs to be done to change attitudes in these areas. The leadership must be shown from their community leaders and Unionist politicians.

In a few weeks time, these areas will host huge bonfires right across the north, burning anything Irish or Catholic. What kind of society in 2009 should have sectarian demonstrations which only fuel these mindsets and do nothing to try and breakdown the barriers between communities? Fly's in the face of any modern thinking in Europe in regards to respect and tolerance.

junder

gurramok wrote: »

The Village area of South Belfast is a hotbed of Loyalism. Anyone who has followed northern affairs should know that.

Loyalists are extreme ring-wingers just like the BNP etc, you're surprised?

I am a loyalist from the village area of belfast and i can assure you that i am very much not right wing and i dispise the BNP so please get your facts right. Moreover these attacks did not happen in the village area or a loyalist area for that matter, Lisburn road is not a loyalist area and has not been for a very long time, in fact the majorty of people living in the lisburn road are from middle class catholic backgrounds with alot of students living in the area as well, And no i am not suggestioning they are involved. I personly will be waiting for the facts to come out, after all i would not like to make any sweeping generlizations, like all loyalists are racist because that would just make me a bigot.

junder

gurramok wrote: »

They did the same to the Polish community since the NI-Poland soccer match a few months ago when so called NI football fans went on the rampage attacking families at random.

conviently forgetting of course the polish fans that went on the rampage in the village before the match, smashing windows and attcaking people. Ironically considering who has been arrested for killing those 2 soldiers and injurying the polish pizza delivery man and his membership of erigi, during the match polish fans were holding up a a erigi flag, wonder if they actully thought that through or were they (perish the thought) just trying to incite violence, But then northern irish prods were invloved so it must be thier fault after all they are northern irish prods and its always thier fault :rolleyes:. Did you hear last night as well 2 car loads of middle aged men from the lower ormeau road drove up and attacked the annadale are of south belfast with petrol bombs? did'nt think so, of course it not republicans fault is it, its always the prods fault, in fact they deserve to have petrol bombs thrown at them for being northern irish prods :rolleyes:

gurramok

junder wrote:

conviently forgetting of course the polish fans that went on the rampage in the village before the match, smashing windows and attcaking people

So that justifies NI fans attacking foreigners in their area?

Always thought there was a police force to tackle law breakers, not a mob.

I am a loyalist from the village area of belfast and i can assure you that i am very much not right wing and i dispise the BNP so please get your facts right. Moreover these attacks did not happen in the village area or a loyalist area for that matter, Lisburn road is not a loyalist area and has not been for a very long time, in fact the majorty of people living in the lisburn road are from middle class catholic backgrounds with alot of students living in the area as well, And no i am not suggestioning they are involved. I personly will be waiting for the facts to come out, after all i would not like to make any sweeping generlizations, like all loyalists are racist because that would just make me a bigot.

Think you'll find that the attackers are from a loyalist area, the attackers do not have to be living on the Lisburn Rd.

Oh, the PSNI has declared Loyalists to have been involved in past racist attacks.
http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/breaking/2006/1101/breaking60.html?via=rel

Police in Northern Ireland may name and shame paramilitary groups whose members are involved in racist attacks, it emerged today.Chief Constable Sir Hugh Orde told a public meeting with the Northern Ireland Policing Board in Newcastle, Co Down, that members of some loyalist groups were involved in violence against eastern Europeans.

So as you declare yourself to be a loyalist, will you be out there protesting against this violence in your name?

Can'tseeme

junder wrote: »

I am a loyalist from the village area of belfast and i can assure you that i am very much not right wing and i dispise the BNP so please get your facts right. Moreover these attacks did not happen in the village area or a loyalist area for that matter, Lisburn road is not a loyalist area and has not been for a very long time, in fact the majorty of people living in the lisburn road are from middle class catholic backgrounds with alot of students living in the area as well, And no i am not suggestioning they are involved. I personly will be waiting for the facts to come out, after all i would not like to make any sweeping generlizations, like all loyalists are racist because that would just make me a bigot.

Ah ffs junder, I've lived in Belfast all my life. You know and I know that area is a loyalist area. There is a minority of people from outside of Belfast that have moved in that may be from a catholic background. There's recent graffiti I've noticed in the area saying 'taigs out' btw. Let's face this problem correctly. Of course not all unionists are racist but there's a serious issue with sectarianism and racism in loyalist areas that isn't being dealt with.

SWL

junder wrote: »

conviently forgetting of course the polish fans that went on the rampage in the village before the match, smashing windows and attcaking people. Ironically considering who has been arrested for killing those 2 soldiers and injurying the polish pizza delivery man and his membership of erigi, during the match polish fans were holding up a a erigi flag, wonder if they actully thought that through or were they (perish the thought) just trying to incite violence, But then northern irish prods were invloved so it must be thier fault after all they are northern irish prods and its always thier fault :rolleyes:. Did you hear last night as well 2 car loads of middle aged men from the lower ormeau road drove up and attacked the annadale are of south belfast with petrol bombs? did'nt think so, of course it not republicans fault is it, its always the prods fault, in fact they deserve to have petrol bombs thrown at them for being northern irish prods :rolleyes:

The Polish community started the trouble after the football match, I was in NI for a week, before and after, the polish supporter’s were rising the Loyalist community with flags and chants, nice thank you to the people who allowed them work when the rest of Europe said no.

It will be interesting to see what happens when a bus of Roma arrive in Dublin, and then gauge people reaction. i am not happy seeing them using their "trade" on the streets of Dublin, maybe that is what has happened in NI.

Maybe someone could just pretend to care about the Romanians?

Come on, they are the victims. They are surely as relevant to the thread as the Battle of the Boyne and sectarian marches or Palestinians or religious differences or all the other issues that have been analysed so far?

Can'tseeme

SWL wrote: »

The Polish community started the trouble after the football match, I was in NI for a week, before and after, the polish supporter’s were rising the Loyalist community with flags and chants, nice thank you to the people who allowed them work when the rest of Europe said no.

It will be interesting to see what happens when a bus of Roma arrive in Dublin, and then gauge people reaction. i am not happy seeing them using their "trade" on the streets of Dublin, maybe that is what has happened in NI.

There were Polish hooligans involved before and after the game and were arrested. That doesn't mean people go around that area of south Belfast forcing 12 families from their home, none of which were Polish. One in fact was an Englishman's home.

Sweet devine.

You almost have to laugh.

Could people not open up a 'we hate Protestants/ Loyalists and will use every opportunity to demonstrate that' thread, and take about 85% of the posts off this one?

conchubhar1

all i will say

is the scum who did this will get there day - whoever they are, regardless of political affiliation etc

gurramok

Deleted User wrote: »

Sweet devine.

You almost have to laugh.

Could people not open up a 'we hate Protestants/ Loyalists and will use every opportunity to demonstrate that' thread, and take about 85% of the posts off this one?

What are you on about?

The attackers are from the loyalist Village area of Belfast and do you not think the racist attacks could not happen without loyalists turning a blind eye? (hence relevance as well as PSNI statement linking them above)

They have done the same to any nationality in that area over the last few years, it just so happens Romanians are getting the headlines now.

bernardo mac

junder wrote: »

conviently forgetting of course the polish fans that went on the rampage in the village before the match, smashing windows and attcaking people. Ironically considering who has been arrested for killing those 2 soldiers and injurying the polish pizza delivery man and his membership of erigi, during the match polish fans were holding up a a erigi flag, wonder if they actully thought that through or were they (perish the thought) just trying to incite violence, But then northern irish prods were invloved so it must be thier fault after all they are northern irish prods and its always thier fault :rolleyes:. Did you hear last night as well 2 car loads of middle aged men from the lower ormeau road drove up and attacked the annadale are of south belfast with petrol bombs? did'nt think so, of course it not republicans fault is it, its always the prods fault, in fact they deserve to have petrol bombs thrown at them for being northern irish prods :rolleyes:

Trying to figure out what an Erigi flag is. Of Sudanese origin? Whatever, it's obvious the biblical dictum of "An eye for an eye"still holds sway with some up north.Down here too, to a lethal extent:Dublin,Limerick...:( Hope that the innocent Romanian families continue to be looked after and reassured of their safety in 21st century Ireland[or is it?]

gurramok

gurramok wrote: »

What are you on about?

Wondering would people stop using the attacks to score points?

gurramok wrote: »

The attackers are from the loyalist Village area of Belfast and do you not think the racist attacks could not happen without loyalists turning a blind eye? (hence relevance as well as PSNI statement linking them above)

I see not.

bigeasyeah

Typical

junder

Can'tseeme wrote: »

Ah ffs junder, I've lived in Belfast all my life. You know and I know that area is a loyalist area. There is a minority of people from outside of Belfast that have moved in that may be from a catholic background. There's recent graffiti I've noticed in the area saying 'taigs out' btw. Let's face this problem correctly. Of course not all unionists are racist but there's a serious issue with sectarianism and racism in loyalist areas that isn't being dealt with.

If you have lived in belfast your entire life then you know full well that the loyalist area of the village and olmypia does not extend past the railway line. Moreover you would know that the vast majorty of people who now live in the lisburn rd are mostly students, nurses or middle class professionals. As for graffiti cross the west link and you will see KAH graffiti and 'huns out' so whats your point. Racism and sectariainism is indemic across northern ireland in both community and in the RoI so spare the 'more innocent then thou' routine. Racsim is a curse of working class and sink estates and has its routes in poverty and other socail problems. Personnly i condemn all attacks or intimadation regardles of thier race, relgion, nationality, gender, sexuality or political view without reservation.

Can'tseeme

Deleted User wrote: »

Sweet devine.

You almost have to laugh.

Could people not open up a 'we hate Protestants/ Loyalists and will use every opportunity to demonstrate that' thread, and take about 85% of the posts off this one?

What utter nonsense.

Who the fook is hating Protestants? Protestants were at those anti-racism and anti-sectarianism demonstrations and will tell you the problems of sectarianism and racism in loyalists areas. I'm sick of people worming their way out of addressing the issues.

Fratton Fred

These attacks are shocking. There is a lot of anti Roma feeling across the UK and ireland a lot of which appears to stem from some dodgy practices part of that community engage in. regardless of that, these people could have been the biggest bunch of criminals and thieves going, but for a mob to drive families with children out of their homes is disgusting.

i would like to add to Conor's point. To a casual observer, whilst I am sure it was not the OP's intention, it would appear that some posters are posting not because they are sickened by these attacks, but because it is a good excuse to get stuck in to loyalists. How does that make them any better than the racist thugs who carried out this act?

ART6

I believe that the issue is not one of race particularly. In so many of these cases it is one of difference. The human race is still largely tribal, and economic immigrants too often don't fit into the accepted local tribal image. Regrettably they generally don't seem to want to adopt local customs, dress, behavior etc and so they stand out from the crowd. People still want to live among their own kind and not have to accommodate such differences. So, someone moving from Kilkenny to Galway or Scotland to England is not viewed any differently in his new home to how he was in his last. Someone from Bangladesh moving to Dublin but insisting on retaining his home customs and behaviour is, however, likely to be treated with suspicion not because of his colour but because he won't or can't assimilate. I worry that with uncontrolled immigration the issue is only going to get worse. Therefore, to avoid that, I believe that any immigrant should be obliged to learn the language fluently, and to abide by local customs, behavior, and dress, and should be required to swear allegience to the host country, renouncing all others. It works reasonably well in the USA, which is probably as muliticultural as it can get.

One might dream that some time in the future the human race will have matured to the extent that people from all faiths and cultures can live together as human beings and not tribe members, but I don't see too many signs of that yet.

Fratton Fred

Fratton Fred wrote: »

it would appear that some posters are posting not because they are sickened by these attacks, but because it is a good excuse to get stuck in to loyalists.

You just know that some posters are delighted, it gives them another reason to have a go. And before they get all pious and defensive, I would ask anyone to count the number of times anyone has expressed concern for the victims. It's just been a rush to condemn with no care for the Romanians.

Most of the Romanian families, including one with a five-day-old girl, have been taken to the Ozone Leisure Centre in south Belfast, where they will spend the rest of the day.
BBC NEWS

Thats totally disgraceful, these thugs should get the harshest punishment.

junder

Can'tseeme wrote: »

What utter nonsense.

Who the fook is hating Protestants? Protestants were at those anti-racism and anti-sectarianism demonstrations and will tell you the problems of sectarianism and racism in loyalists areas. I'm sick of people worming their way out of addressing the issues.

Yer your right, us loyalists or so racist. I know this one feller (a northern ireland fan to boot who was at the game) in the village who hates polish so much that you actully lives with a polish girl and has a 4 month old son with her. And my family we hate forginers so much that a couson of mine has a child with a slovikian girl. And Me i used to have polish nieghbours (no they were not forced out) i hated them so much i used to have adrink with them and to really so how much i hated them i brought them along to watch the 12th and took them up to derry day to watch the apprentice boys parades in londonderry. Moreover the orange lodge is so racist that it actully lodges in africa that are made up completely of black people (ghanna to be precise), and native american lodges in canada.
As it happens there is alot of work going on within the wider loyalist community to try and redress the problem of racism but after reading some of the comments on this thread you think whats the point we are damned no matter what we do.

junder

junder wrote: »

Yer your right, us loyalists or so racist. I know this one feller (a northern ireland fan to boot who was at the game) in the village who hates polish so much that you actully lives with a polish girl and has a 4 month old son with her. And my family we hate forginers so much that a couson of mine has a child with a slovikian girl. And Me i used to have polish nieghbours (no they were not forced out) i hated them so much i used to have adrink with them and to really so how much i hated them i brought them along to watch the 12th and took them up to derry day to watch the apprentice boys parades in londonderry. Moreover the orange lodge is so racist that it actully lodges in africa that are made up completely of black people (ghanna to be precise), and native american lodges in canada.
As it happens there is alot of work going on within the wider loyalist community to try and redress the problem of racism but after reading some of the comments on this thread you think whats the point we are damned no matter what we do.

Thats just you and a "fella you know". There obviously isnt good enough work going on to address the problem when all this has happened.
You would as a community be applauded if you rid of the racism in loyalist communities, but as of now it looks worse than ever and nothing seems to have changed one bit.
These racist should be the ones forced out of their home and not the Romanians.

RiverWilde

I hope these thugs are found and prosecuted and spend a long time behind bars. How the hell is society supposed to function if the likes of these morons are allowed to drive ordinary decent citizens from their homes?

Riv