Romanians Victims of Racist Attacks

ART6

djpbarry wrote: »

Indeed - can't be offending the poor racists now can we?

Oh dear! Do you bother to read posts before you swing into the attack? I don't believe that the majority of people are "racist" (a word that has been very much abused lately IMHO). I simply said that I believe that people prefer to live among their own kind. That is regrettable, but it is a fact of life at this point in human evolution. Every animal in the animal kingdom is like that, and we, whatever our vanity tells us, are still animals. I wish it were not so, but....

Fratton Fred

Hagar wrote: »

Fred, that is the most thinly veiled attempt at character assassination I have ever seen. I'm disappointed that you would make a personal attack on me like that.

Saying I'm worst than a racist thug?
That's a step too far don't you think?

Even if the claim you made about "getting stuck into Loyalists" has any basis even you must acknowledge that there is a world of difference between robust political debate and physical violence directed at families with young children.

I was actually trying to exclude you from my point tbh.

Why is it that a republican outrage is carried out by republican dissidents, but if a bunch of loyalist thugs carry out something like these attacks the whole community appears to get the blame? From what I can see this is just more points scoring between rivals, as pretty much any other thread on NI is.

Besides, if I wanted to assassinate your character, I wouldn't hide it behind a veil :-))

djpbarry

Can'tseeme wrote: »

They could organise and attend anti-racism rallies in the area for a start.

I meant with regard to this particular incident.

ART6 wrote: »

I simply said that I believe that people prefer to live among their own kind.

All people? Most people? Some people?

ART6 wrote: »

Every animal in the animal kingdom is like that, and we, whatever our vanity tells us, are still animals.

A statement such as that could be used to justify pretty much anything.

Iskenderun

Various international surveys have shown that Northern Ireland is right
up there in the bigots league in terms of racism, homophobia and religious
sectarianism.
Fertile ground for far right politics.

netron

Iskenderun wrote: »

Various international surveys have shown that Northern Ireland is right
up there in the bigots league in terms of racism, homophobia and religious
sectarianism.
Fertile ground for far right politics.

if that is the case , then you have to ask the next question - WHO thought it was a good idea to locate Roma Gipsies in Belfast?

these things dont happen by accident.

or to put it another way - if you were in charge of relocating Jewish refugees and you placed them in Hezbollah controlled southern Lebanon, would you be able to walk away and say "nothing to do with me guv, those Hezbollah guys are just racist"

netron

Hagar wrote: »

Racist sectarian mobs attacking and driving Romanians from their homes in Lisburn Road area of South Belfast. Loyalist paramilitary groups suspected as being involved. Given the area it happened in it couldn't really have been anyone else.

Have the Loyalists finally stepped over the line dividing sectarianism and Nazism?

Link to story on BBC News

Link to story on Sky News

Link to story on RTE News

i wouldnt trust the BBC. they're very quick to jump to the "loyalist paramilitary" tag without evidence.


UDA guy was turned away from the Roma refugee centre

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/breaking/2009/0617/breaking46.htm

"Leading UDA figure in south Belfast Jackie McDonald was turned away today from the leisure centre where Romanian families are staying following racist attacks in the city."

and

"Clearly irritated at being turned away, Mr McDonald nevertheless said he utterly condemned the targeting of the families. He added that work was going on within the community to ensure that those involved stop."

“We’re trying to talk to young people to encourage them not to do what they are doing,” he said.

netron

"The two main loyalist paramilitary groups, the UVF and UDA, have condemned the attacks and said none of their members were involved."

http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2009/jun/17/northernireland-ukcrime

and

"The mob chanted Combat 18 slogans, although security sources in Northern Ireland said there was no evidence the neo-Nazi terror group had organised cells in the Greater Belfast area."

Iskenderun

How comforting to have a UDA person on your side.

gurramok

netron wrote: »

"The two main loyalist paramilitary groups, the UVF and UDA, have condemned the attacks and said none of their members were involved."

http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2009/jun/17/northernireland-ukcrime

and

"The mob chanted Combat 18 slogans, although security sources in Northern Ireland said there was no evidence the neo-Nazi terror group had organised cells in the Greater Belfast area."

Some group or un-affilated group within loyalism carried out these attacks.

"Other people spoke of men armed with guns telling them to leave the country or face being shot."

"On Monday night, a number of young men from the Village area threw bottles and stones at an anti-racist protest on the Lisburn Road called to show solidarity with the Romanians."

A group from the loyalist Village area armed with guns, add two and two together and they are loyalists.

netron

whats not being explained is why the attacks happened against them. i'm reading comments on other blogs/websites about the Roma being a bunch of criminals, highly involved in criminal rackets and begging in Belfast.

maybe its just loyalist criminal thugs saying to the Roma thugs - "get off my patch"...


anyone from belfast care to comment about whats really lead up to this, as i'm only guessing.

Peyton Manning

netron wrote: »

whats not being explained is why the attacks happened against them. i'm reading comments on other blogs/websites about the Roma being a bunch of criminals, highly involved in criminal rackets and begging in Belfast.

maybe its just loyalist criminal thugs saying to the Roma thugs - "get off my patch"...


anyone from belfast care to comment about whats really lead up to this, as i'm only guessing.

I live on Dunluce Avenue - less than 60 seconds walk from Belgravia Avenue where this happened. There are a lot of Roma about, and a lot of them do beg and sell Issues.....but apart from harassing students outside nightclubs selling fake roses Ive never heard of anything of organised crime or rackets from them.

Also, this incident is painting a particularly bad impression of the area. This particular area of South Belfast, i.e. Lower Lisburn Road is a lovely area. To hear it being labelled as a "hot bed of loyalist activity" is actually pretty damn hilarious. I dont believe this is just a random attack on a different ethnic group or religious group just because of that difference. Heck, Ive had no run ins with loyalists and Im often strolling about here wearing GAA tops and being typically Southern.

netron

thanks for the comment - its good to hear from somebody at ground level.
since i dont live in belfast, i'm having to trawl through comment threads , news reports and blogs - so thanks again.

barryfield

junder wrote: »

I am a loyalist from the village area of belfast and i can assure you that i am very much not right wing and i dispise the BNP so please get your facts right. Moreover these attacks did not happen in the village area or a loyalist area for that matter, Lisburn road is not a loyalist area and has not been for a very long time, in fact the majorty of people living in the lisburn road are from middle class catholic backgrounds with alot of students living in the area as well, And no i am not suggestioning they are involved. I personly will be waiting for the facts to come out, after all i would not like to make any sweeping generlizations, like all loyalists are racist because that would just make me a bigot.

yea those guys interviewed on the news looked real middle class all right , as they say in donegal its"different" up there

nesf

Hagar wrote: »

Fred, that is the most thinly veiled attempt at character assassination I have ever seen. I'm disappointed that you would make a personal attack on me like that.

Saying I'm worst than a racist thug?
That's a step too far don't you think?

Even if the claim you made about "getting stuck into Loyalists" has any basis even you must acknowledge that there is a world of difference between robust political debate and physical violence directed at families with young children.

Hagar in fairness he went out of his way to make it clear that his comments weren't aimed at you and that the resulting "getting stuck into Loyalists" that he thinks is happening was not your intention when you started this thread.

junder

barryfield wrote: »

yea those guys interviewed on the news looked real middle class all right , as they say in donegal its"different" up there

I guess you did'nt bother reading what Archimedes just wrote a couple of posts above yours

barryfield

junder wrote: »

I guess you did'nt bother reading what Archimedes just wrote a couple of posts above yours

so what does that say , that those guys (loyalists ) are kind caring non racists who tolerate a fenian wearing a gaa shirt , wonderful , lets get the roma 100 gaa shirts and everything be grand

stiffler1

Good on ya Belfast , about time somebody ran these leeches. Romanians ran from there homes ???? are these not homes for UK residents, Romanians cant find work ??? are they allowed work in this country or more to the point do they want to work?

A Dub in Glasgo

stiffler1 wrote: »

are these not homes for UK residents?

UK residents? - sure weren't these Roma residing in the UK therefore they are UK residents!!

I was in Heathrow Terminal 5 for most of the afternoon (delayed flight) and this was being relayed on the BBC News 24 at every gate every half hour. Those 'loyalist' arseholes are certainly doing their bit for community relations.

johnathan woss

Bottle_of_Smoke wrote: »

A part of me thinks sectarianism is now so out of hand that republicans are being anti-racist to spite the other side.

AHAHAHAHAHAHA yea, those evil republicans being all tolerant, generous and respectful to people, just in order to spite Loyalists.
You can't turn your back on them for a second Bottle_of_Smoke.
:pac: :pac: :pac:

Bottle_of_Smoke

johnathan woss wrote: »

AHAHAHAHAHAHA yea, those evil republicans being all tolerant, generous and respectful to people, just in order to spite Loyalists.
You can't turn your back on them for a second Bottle_of_Smoke.
:pac: :pac: :pac:

It might sound insane but this is Northern Ireland!

There's less racism amongst republican communities than in the ROI/ Wouldn't rule it out

A Dub in Glasgo

It is insane and apart from just making it up, what evidence would you put forward to support your thoughts?

Ozziej

Think this post from guardian sums up situation beautifully

PhilipD
17 Jun 09, 5:03pm (about 15 hours ago)
There is a terrible racism problem in Northern Ireland, much worse than anywhere else in these islands. But this article is one of many which makes things worse by refusing to state clearly who the perpetrators are. It is overwhelmingly loyalists. There seems to be a bizarre form of political correctness at work that means that both communities need to be blamed equally and identified as equally racist. Reporting in both the UK and the Republic seems to bend over backwards to try to reach this conclusion - I remember one article that found an incident of two Filipina women who had abuse shouted at them on the Falls Road as evidence that 'both sides are as bad as each other'. Compared to the record of firebombings, racist grafitti, and assaults on Black, Asian, Chinese and Romany communities in Loyalist areas it was almost funny. But what isn't funny is that this refusal to identify the source of the racism gets in the way of seriously tackling it.

By the way, most Romanians I know refuse to acknowledge the victims as fellow countrypeople. They are Romany - a distinct ethnic group that are found in most European countries.

gurramok

Archimedes wrote: »

Also, this incident is painting a particularly bad impression of the area. This particular area of South Belfast, i.e. Lower Lisburn Road is a lovely area. To hear it being labelled as a "hot bed of loyalist activity" is actually pretty damn hilarious. I dont believe this is just a random attack on a different ethnic group or religious group just because of that difference. Heck, Ive had no run ins with loyalists and Im often strolling about here wearing GAA tops and being typically Southern.

Read the posts again. Lisburn Road is NOT a "hot bed of loyalist activity", the Village area where the perpetrators are from is.

Did you watch UTV Live News at 6pm yesterday? Countless interviews about blame been put on aggressors from the Village area for the racist attacks.

Some Village residents were interviewed, some were ashamed of what happened and others uttered words like 'they should not be living here in the first place'.

Cannibal Ox

I don't get this obsession with the loyalist thing, and I don't even see why it's relevant. Does anyone really think the Romanians care if the people threatening them were loyalists, republicans or martians? Really? It's just so f*cking petty and narrow minded, and shows little or no regard for the people who are being victimized if all that people are concerned about is points scoring against loyalists.

getz

it was nice to see the deputy first minister of northern ireland,saying these are criminals, those responsible for the racist attacks in belfast should be brought to justice,and i fully agree with him,and then it dawned on me ,this is martin mcguinnes-exmember of the ira council,godfather of godfathers,convicted of many terrorist atrocities, strange how quickly things can change within a few years ,seriously the only way to stop people pointing fingers is to arrest and prosecute those responible,

Cannibal Ox

Cannibal Ox wrote: »

Does anyone really think the Romanians care if the people threatening them were loyalists, republicans or martians? Really? It's just so f*cking petty and narrow minded, and shows little or no regard for the people who are being victimized if all that people are concerned about is points scoring against loyalists.

It's the only issue here. Never mind them Bulgarians.

Hagar

getz wrote: »

it was nice to see the deputy first minister of northern ireland,saying these are criminals, those responsible for the racist attacks in belfast should be brought to justice,and i fully agree with him,and then it dawned on me ,this is martin mcguinnes-exmember of the ira council,godfather of godfathers,convicted of many terrorist atrocities, strange how quickly things can change within a few years ,seriously the only way to stop people pointing fingers is to arrest and prosecute those responible,

You had forgotten? Luckily it dawned on you so. :cool:

Things have changed, swords have been beaten into plough-shares, at least the swords on one side have. MMcG condemns criminal activity and you mock him for it, and on the other hand if he didn't condemn it you would say he condoned it. I look forward to the decent people in those communities handing over those thugs to the PSNI for due process of law.

I just saw that Sky are reporting another racist attack in East Belfast last night. Any ideas as to who might be responsible for that?

djpbarry

netron wrote: »

WHO thought it was a good idea to locate Roma Gipsies in Belfast?

Has it been established that the victims are Roma? And why do you assume that they were "located" in Belfast by some authority?

Can'tseeme

junder wrote: »

Yes i do know full well which areas of south belfast are loyalist and the lisburn Road is not one of them. Windsor park which is next to the olyimpia area is on the far side of the railway tracks from lisburn rd and as i have already stated umteem times the railway line marks the border of whats is the loyalist area of olympia and the village from what is the lisburn road area. As for who attacked them, you seem to know more then anybody else.

Let's clear this up. The Lisburn Rd, is one of the main roads in Belfast. On the actual road itself, there's plenty of shops, restaurants and bars. A normal main road you'll find in any city. Now, OFF the main road, at the bottom of the Lisburn Rd is Loyalist Sandy Row. Further up, OFF the Lisburn Rd you'll find the Loyalist Village area. Further up, OFF the Lisburn Road you'll find Linfield FC's windsor Park which is in the heart off the loyalist Tate's Ave. These are unionist/loyalist estates, that some landlords have bought where some foreign nationals, nurses and students have moved into. Some locals haven't taken to this which is why we've had situations like what happened this week. Why your trying to muddy the water over this, I've no idea.

djpbarry wrote: »

I meant with regard to this particular incident.
All people? Most people? Some people?

This problem has not just happened this week. There have been incidents like this that have been happening in loyalist areas over the past number of years. It's just this one has eventually grabbed the headlines. There's a few I can name off the top of my head. In loyalist Donegall Pass, there was racist literature being posted around the houses regarding the influx of the chinese community. Last year it was reported there was a loyalist protest in the Loyalist village area, to get polish families out. There was 12 families burnt out of their homes after the NI vs Poland match.

Tensions have been running high in these areas for a long time. I'm questioning Unionist leadership in addressing it. Why were there not community meetings to intergrate these people better, to ease tensions, to talk to the unionist people and to address any fears they may have with foreign nationals coming into the area. I've heard little condemnation of other attacks that have happened over the last few years. This one grabs all the headlines and then they've came out to condemn what happened. It's a bit too little too late. I believe there are people in these communities that have tried to ease tensions. But I feel they could do with more support to have any sucess.

So long as these people are coming legally here to earn a living and raise a family, then they deserve to live in peace without intimidation or violence against them.

getz

what annoys me is the fact that a lot of boardies living in the republic believe every crime in northern ireland must have been committed by royalist/republican control.do they believe it is the same in the republic?---chinese national killed in racist attack by irish youths [dublin 2002] racist attack on englishman

by youths[dublin] irish goverment scrapegoating immigrants encourages-shopkeepers in cork have racist threats daubed on their buildings,this happens in every city in the uk and in the republic, and even moreso in france germany,he who casts the first stone