Romanians Victims of Racist Attacks

djpbarry

SWL wrote: »

I would be more concerned about the hypocrisy of posters with their faux pas indignation about the plight of a community know for criminal activity which is evident in any large town or city in Ireland.

Perhaps you could outline the criminal activity in which these particular families were involved?

Can'tseeme

djpbarry wrote: »

I suggest that the perpetrators of these crimes be punished to the fullest extent of the law and people stop tarring entire communities based on the actions of a few mindless idiots.

Who's is tarring entire communities with the same brush? Nobody is saying that but your jumping to that conclusion. Sectarianism/Racism has been brewing in loyalist working class areas for a while. More should be done to win the hearts and minds of people to turn them away from this kind of stuff. Now, that's not just me saying that. Politicans across the board are saying this.

NOGMaxpower

Loyalists are facists, they've now moved their hate towards Romanians and lets be honest they've targeted other minorities in the past.

its no surprise to me that attacks like this have finally been put on the media. Although the media is still reluctant to call out that it is the loyalists behind these attacks, i wonder why?

mike kelly

NOGMaxpower wrote: »

Loyalists are facists, they've now moved their hate towards Romanians and lets be honest they've targeted other minorities in the past.

its no surprise to me that attacks like this have finally been put on the media. Although the media is still reluctant to call out that it is the loyalists behind these attacks, i wonder why?

I was a Sinn Fein supporter in the 1980's but I think it is pathetic to blame loyalist groups for these attacks.
If loyalists came down south to burn out knacker scumbag families, there would be queues to join the UDA / UVF.
Romanian gypsies are trouble and they are no loss if they do go back haome.

NOGMaxpower

NOGMaxpower wrote: »

Although the media is still reluctant to call out that it is the loyalists behind these attacks, i wonder why?

It's a big conspiracy that goes all the way up to the top. The media is in fear!

johnnyc wrote: »

Everday i see then selling big issue, roses and claming social welfare these class of people should be given a one way ticket out of the country

I hear ya! That's the good old Catholic Oirish scam we became famous for in places like London. The claiming for 20 kids and the 3 disabled spouses, the vans going from social welfare office to office, huh? How dare they take our scams away, the blackguards...

oscarBravo

Can'tseeme wrote: »

Who's is tarring entire communities with the same brush? Nobody is saying that...

NOGMaxpower wrote: »

Loyalists are facists...

You were saying?

Can'tseeme

mike kelly wrote: »

I was a Sinn Fein supporter in the 1980's but I think it is pathetic to blame loyalist groups for these attacks.
If loyalists came down south to burn out knacker scumbag families, there would be queues to join the UDA / UVF.
Romanian gypsies are trouble and they are no loss if they do go back haome.

I've yet to hear any reports of 'trouble' that these people have caused in the village area of Belfast.

Talk about tarring everyone with the one brush.

Can'tseeme

oscarBravo wrote: »

You were saying?

So I speak for myself and NOGmaxpower??

Why don't you address that point to him and ask what he meant?

SWL

djpbarry wrote: »

Perhaps you could outline the criminal activity in which these particular families were involved?

Perhaps you should get out more, you need a permit to sell goods in the streets of Irish cities ask the traders in Moore street, why should they have to get a permit which must be PAID for and Roma don't pick pocketing etc as well as other offences are committed regularly, if you are so sure they are innocent then give one a room in your house, your hypocrisy and faux pas indignation is nauseating at this stage not only on this matter but most of your posts are similar, try walking the walk if you’re going to talk the talk.

But as I said maybe you need to leave Ireland and travel, certainly seems like you should purchase a passport and view the world.

getz

NOGMaxpower wrote: »

Loyalists are facists, they've now moved their hate towards Romanians and lets be honest they've targeted other minorities in the past.

its no surprise to me that attacks like this have finally been put on the media. Although the media is still reluctant to call out that it is the loyalists behind these attacks, i wonder why?

i predict that in the next few weeks there will be a racist gang attact in dublin [are we to blame republican scum for it ?]ho i forgot , one of the boardies said today it already happened last night.

bernardo mac

There's truth in what you say, SWL and jdpbarry.It would be difficult to find a Residential Association in the South that would warmly welcome nomadic groups to settle in its area and the residents' fears may be understandable,even justified.And no doubt, a group or even a single family of Travellers,non national or Irish would not be ALLOWED settle near the residences of a judge,an eminent politician, a corporate investor,a media celebrity,a business executive...fears justified,of course,and understandable:eek:

given1

junder wrote: »

conviently forgetting of course the polish fans that went on the rampage in the village before the match, smashing windows and attcaking people. Ironically considering who has been arrested for killing those 2 soldiers and injurying the polish pizza delivery man and his membership of erigi, during the match polish fans were holding up a a erigi flag, wonder if they actully thought that through or were they (perish the thought) just trying to incite violence, But then northern irish prods were invloved so it must be thier fault after all they are northern irish prods and its always thier fault :rolleyes:. Did you hear last night as well 2 car loads of middle aged men from the lower ormeau road drove up and attacked the annadale are of south belfast with petrol bombs? did'nt think so, of course it not republicans fault is it, its always the prods fault, in fact they deserve to have petrol bombs thrown at them for being northern irish prods :rolleyes:

for the annadale bonfire thats bull****, it was local kids who have been building the bonfire who set it! i live in the area!

oscarBravo

Can'tseeme wrote: »

So I speak for myself and NOGmaxpower??

Why don't you address that point to him and ask what he meant?

My point is that people are, indeed, tarring entire communities with the same brush. I never suggested that you were; but it's simply not true to say that nobody is.

SWL wrote: »

Perhaps you should get out more, you need a permit to sell goods in the streets of Irish cities ask the traders in Moore street, why should they have to get a permit which must be PAID for and Roma don't pick pocketing etc as well as other offences are committed regularly, if you are so sure they are innocent then give one a room in your house, your hypocrisy and faux pas indignation is nauseating at this stage not only on this matter but most of your posts are similar, try walking the walk if you’re going to talk the talk.

But as I said maybe you need to leave Ireland and travel, certainly seems like you should purchase a passport and view the world.

Nowhere in that tirade did I see an approximation of an answer to djpbarry's question.

johnnyc

Can'tseeme wrote: »

Selling roses and the big issue, eh? Shocking stuff, how dare they:rolleyes:

and claiming social welfare. why do you think they come to this country beside the rain. heres the simple answer better welfare system..

http://www.independent.ie/national-news/rain-beat-roma-plan-for-welfare-invasion-1047192.html

"The decision of the remaining Roma gypsies to accept free flights home to Bucharest - from where most had flown to Dublin on regular scheduled flights, costing about €200 each - effectively ended what gardai believe was an orchestrated plan by organised gangsters to bring tens of thousands of Roma to Ireland to cash in on social welfare payments."

junder

given1 wrote: »

for the annadale bonfire thats bull****, it was local kids who have been building the bonfire who set it! i live in the area!

Funny that, my mate lives directly oppersite the bonfire and would know the kids who are building the bonfire, funny thing the bonfire was attacked in the 1 hour out of the 24hours that the bonfire was not gaurded. And of course lets not forget that this attack was witnessed by a local resident, which is why it was known that it was middle aged men and not youths that attcked it and petrol bombs were used. But of course i am a prod so i must be lying :rolleyes:

johnnyc

johnnyc wrote: »

and claiming social welfare.

You might have missed my point above.

But anyway, am I the only one who thinks an Irish person giving out about others allegedly scamming social welfare is funny?

What next? The Romas are known for getting drunk and fighting too? Tut tut, we should all stroke or beards and shake our heads...

Can'tseeme

oscarBravo wrote: »

My point is that people are, indeed, tarring entire communities with the same brush. I never suggested that you were; but it's simply not true to say that nobody is.

Fair enough. NOGmaxpower is wrong. You simply can't say that all loyalists are facists. There are elements of Loyalism who hold a more socialist political view, David Ervine was of this ilk. There is are elements of loyalism that is right wing and have connections to the far right in Britian. As I said, this has built some momentum in these areas and there has been attacks on foreign nationals over the last few years. This particular one just happened to hit the headlines because of the numbers put out of their homes.

SWL

oscarBravo wrote: »

My point is that people are, indeed, tarring entire communities with the same brush. I never suggested that you were; but it's simply not true to say that nobody is.

Nowhere in that tirade did I see an approximation of an answer to djpbarry's question.

Then re read it like a good boy, also re read my first post to which he applied, that should clear it up

djpbarry

johnnyc wrote: »

and claiming social welfare. why do you think they come to this country beside the rain. heres the simple answer better welfare system..

http://www.independent.ie/national-news/rain-beat-roma-plan-for-welfare-invasion-1047192.html

"The decision of the remaining Roma gypsies to accept free flights home to Bucharest - from where most had flown to Dublin on regular scheduled flights, costing about €200 each - effectively ended what gardai believe was an orchestrated plan by organised gangsters to bring tens of thousands of Roma to Ireland to cash in on social welfare payments."

May I suggest you read the entire article (emphasis mine):

Romanian officials were in agreement that the arrival of the Roma from Tileagd was to be the first wave of a massive influx of Roma IF they had been granted legal status and social welfare entitlements.

Can'tseeme

johnnyc wrote: »

and claiming social welfare. why do you think they come to this country beside the rain. heres the simple answer better welfare system..

http://www.independent.ie/national-news/rain-beat-roma-plan-for-welfare-invasion-1047192.html

"The decision of the remaining Roma gypsies to accept free flights home to Bucharest - from where most had flown to Dublin on regular scheduled flights, costing about €200 each - effectively ended what gardai believe was an orchestrated plan by organised gangsters to bring tens of thousands of Roma to Ireland to cash in on social welfare payments."

First of all, from what I've read in the local papers is that these people who were attacked were working and paying rent on houses in the area. Some were working in car washes, fast food joints in Belfast, etc. Stick to the facts.

FTA69

While I stand by my original post stating that Loyalism is prone to outbursts of violence against minorities, I'll have to expand it further. The comments by some here suggesting "the north should drift off to sea" are simply idiotic. Racism is also engrained in society south of the border, and anyone who thinks violence and bigotry are the sole preserve of northern Prods is codding themselves. Does anyone remember that Lithuanian man brutally murdered in Dublin? Or the Nigerian election candidates getting abused while out postering or canvassing?

Racism is a very big problem in all aspects of Irish society, north or south, the fact that Loyalist outbursts like this one might be more explicit doesn't mean the rest of us are immune from the sentiment behind it.

Can'tseeme

FTA69 wrote: »

While I stand by my original post stating that Loyalism is prone to outbursts of violence against minorities, I'll have to expand it further. The comments by some here suggesting "the north should drift off to sea" are simply idiotic. Racism is also engrained in society south of the border, and anyone who thinks violence and bigotry are the sole preserve of northern Prods is codding themselves. Does anyone remember that Lithuanian man brutally murdered in Dublin? Or the Nigerian election candidates getting abused while out postering or canvassing?

Racism is a very big problem in all aspects of Irish society, north or south, the fact that Loyalist outbursts like this one might be more explicit doesn't mean the rest of us are immune from the sentiment behind it.

Well said, it is certainly a growing trend among people these days in Britian and Ireland and probably right across Europe.

There is definitely a right wing element to peoples thinking these days. Everyone is more interested in their comfortable homes, 2nd morgages and nice cars. They're more interested in what Peter and Jordan are up to, they don't give a sh1t that there are people less fortunate than themselves. Cos we get an influx of immigrants (and with the right wing media out there) these people aren't given a chance. They're straight away called spongers, fundamentalists, thieves, etc. We've a down turn in the economy and they nearly get the blame because they are holding down a job in Burger King. It's a strange world we're living in these days.

I kept on reading and hearing comments along the lines of "I'm not racist but these people are of no benefit to society". I mean that is blatant ignorant racism. It's exactly what Nazi Germany was spouting about Jews in 1930's Germany.

johnnyc

Can'tseeme wrote: »

First of all, from what I've read in the local papers is that these people who were attacked were working and paying rent on houses in the area. Some were working in car washes, fast food joints in Belfast, etc. Stick to the facts.

Ah a good portion of the romas dont work and as a people i have no respect for, all they seem to do is to build another generation of beggars . I have no problem people who try to find work, but the majority of these people dont want to work. You may call me a racists but i aint, a majority of irish people think the same way as i do.

johnnyc

johnnyc wrote: »

You may call me a racists but i aint

God damn Cletus. Them soft Northy city types, they aint never gonna understand nuttin here in the deep South!

johnnyc wrote: »

a majority of irish people think the same way as i do.

I doubt it, but even if they did I'm not sure it makes it right. If a majority had voted for Bertie would it right all his wrongs?

P. Breathnach

johnnyc wrote: »

Ah a good portion of the romas dont work and as a people i have no respect for, all they seem to do is to build another generation of beggars . I have no problem people who try to find work, but the majority of these people dont want to work. You may call me a racists but i aint, a majority of irish people think the same way as i do.

Right, I accept your invitation and call you a racist. That is because you are not responding to people as individuals, but as members of a racial group.

Iskenderun

Would it be possible to change the name of 'Northern Ireland'?
The use of this term causes so much shame.

Rb

Deleted User wrote: »

You might have missed my point above.

But anyway, am I the only one who thinks an Irish person giving out about others allegedly scamming social welfare is funny?

What next? The Romas are known for getting drunk and fighting too? Tut tut, we should all stroke or beards and shake our heads...

Sorry Conor, but if you're really equating the plague of Roma in Ireland and elsewhere in Europe to the Irish in London in the 70s and 80s, then I can only feel pity for you.

You should maybe consider moving elsewhere, and surrendering your citizenship to this country.

johnnyc

P. Breathnach wrote: »

Right, I accept your invitation and call you a racist. That is because you are not responding to people as individuals, but as members of a racial group.

Ah ok breathnach you entilted to your opinon which i disagree with, but maybe the real reason why the roma Gypsies were attached is described in this article.

http://www.culturedviews.com/roma-gypsies-flee-racist-attacks-in-belfast-but-the-underlying-problem-goes-further/2009/06/17/view.htm

"But at the same time you won’t go far here to find a person who has not looked at the Roma community with a fond eye. You also won’t go far, especially in Belfast, to find a street or location that does not have Roma women begging passersby for money. This tradition of theirs, and it is a tradition, has not made the Roma’s overly popular with the locals.

They are prolific in their activity; they stand beside you at ATM’s, approach you in carparks, outside shops, restaurants, nightclubs – one hand held out to you and the other clutching a mobile phone. To be perfectly straight the people here do not like it or accept it. To see these women standing outside nightclubs in the small hours with very young children begging or trying to sell you a wilted flower is quite an affront to a society not accustomed to street begging."

djpbarry

johnnyc wrote: »

Ah a good portion of the romas dont work and as a people i have no respect for...
...
You may call me a racists but i aint...

You're generalising based on ethnicity; the very definition of racism.

A good portion of Irish people aren't working at the moment - I guess that's good reason to go kickin' some doors in and what not.

djpbarry

johnnyc wrote: »

Ah ok breathnach you entilted to your opinon which i disagree with, but maybe the real reason why the roma Gypsies were attached is described in this article.

http://www.culturedviews.com/roma-gypsies-flee-racist-attacks-in-belfast-but-the-underlying-problem-goes-further/2009/06/17/view.htm

Super. Now all you have to do is (a) demonstrate that the victims of these attacks were engaging in the sort of behaviour described in that article and (b) explain why this warranted an attack on their homes.