Romanians Victims of Racist Attacks

johnnyc

djpbarry wrote: »

You're generalising based on ethnicity; the very definition of racism.

A good portion of Irish people aren't working at the moment - I guess that's good reason to go kickin' some doors in and what not.

Ah in general the roma gypies population have a history of begging.Do you agree with the assertion djpbarry. As i have mentioned before i dont mind people who are trying to find work!. Look the activites by the vast majority of roma gypies begging can reflect on the rest.

Can'tseeme

johnnyc wrote: »

Ah ok breathnach you entilted to your opinon which i disagree with, but maybe the real reason why the roma Gypsies were attached is described in this article.

http://www.culturedviews.com/roma-gypsies-flee-racist-attacks-in-belfast-but-the-underlying-problem-goes-further/2009/06/17/view.htm

"But at the same time you won’t go far here to find a person who has not looked at the Roma community with a fond eye. You also won’t go far, especially in Belfast, to find a street or location that does not have Roma women begging passersby for money. This tradition of theirs, and it is a tradition, has not made the Roma’s overly popular with the locals.

They are prolific in their activity; they stand beside you at ATM’s, approach you in carparks, outside shops, restaurants, nightclubs – one hand held out to you and the other clutching a mobile phone. To be perfectly straight the people here do not like it or accept it. To see these women standing outside nightclubs in the small hours with very young children begging or trying to sell you a wilted flower is quite an affront to a society not accustomed to street begging."

That is the biggest pile of horsesh1t I've ever read. I work in Belfast city centre, there's a few foreign nationals selling the big issue and honestly, they never ever bother me. In fact those people with their clipboards trying to sign me up to a charity or some credit card in a shopping mall bother me far more and are far more in my face. Again on a saturday night I might see a woman trying to sell me a rose, big deal. You would have to go out of your way to take offense. This is blatant racism your spouting.

Rb

djpbarry wrote: »

A good portion of Irish people aren't working at the moment - I guess that's good reason to go kickin' some doors in and what not.

Yes but the majority aren't on our streets begging, or having our children sit out and beg for us, or standing beside women at the ATM asking for money.

However, that cannot be said about the Roma population and I'm terrified to think of the state this country will fall into if such liberal attitudes are taken towards such leeches.

Cantseeme wrote:

. This is blatant racism your spouting.

Similarly, one could say that you're merely spouting typical liberal PC BS that follows ideals that will never work in the real world.

Thankfully the far left aren't too much of a threat though.

johnathan woss

So when are djpbarry, oscarbravo and conor74 giving one of their rooms to a fine upstanding roma family ?

Please post pictures of the happy occasion on boards.

Rb

johnathan woss wrote: »

So when are djpbarry, oscarbravo and conor74 giving one of their rooms to a fine upstanding roma family ?

Please post pictures of the happy occasion on boards.

When they move out from under their mother's roof?

:pac:

djpbarry

johnnyc wrote: »

As i have mentioned before i dont mind people who are trying to find work!

How do you know that the victims of these attacks were not working or trying to find work? Even if they were not seeking employment, does that justify the attacks?

Rb wrote: »

Yes but the majority aren't on our streets begging, or having our children sit out and beg for us, or standing beside women at the ATM asking for money.

Some do, but that’s not the point. Were the victims of these attacks engaging in this sort of behaviour? If so, does that warrant an attack on their homes?

Rb wrote: »

However, that cannot be said about the Roma population and I'm terrified to think of the state this country will fall into if such liberal attitudes are taken towards such leeches.

When did objecting to attacks on houses become a “liberal attitude”?

Rb

djpbarry wrote: »

How do you know that the victims of these attacks were not working or trying to find work? Even if they were not seeking employment, does that justify the attacks?
Some do, but that’s not the point. Were the victims of these attacks engaging in this sort of behaviour? If so, does that warrant an attack on their homes?
When did objecting to attacks on houses become a “liberal attitude”?

I didn't mean to imply that their "culture" justifies attacking them, however I can certainly understand people saying "enough is enough". The biggest problem is our government and local representatives refusing to deal with immigration in a constructive manner due to a fear of being called a racist should they, for example, say it's time to close our borders temporarily.

This attitude angers people and I can understand them getting frustrated and taking it out on those who are seen by, to be quite honest, most as a drain/leech on society, who contribute nothing and have no interest in integrating, or observing local or national "traditions" or culture.

Similarly I can understand their compassion for their fellow Irish man who is out of a job and is sitting around during the days, yet their anger at the Romas who...well...just sit around (mostly).

I don't think they should be beaten, per se, but I believe there is a huge elephant in the room that noone wants to tackle and until someone comes forward to do so, sporadic violence towards "the problem" may be a consequence.

I wasn't saying that objecting to the attacks was a liberal attitude. I'm just shocked at how little some people care about this country in the name of being seen as "good", or, "politically correct".

Fwiw, I'm not a staunch republican, far from it, but I want to see immigration dealt with quite sternley as, as I've already said, those who can do something about it have sat on their hands and have let just about anyone in out of the fear that should they oppose it, they'll be branded a racist and lose support.

Funnily enough though, I don't think there's ever been such a good time to tackle the subject as I believe voter support would be considerably higher than ever before.

djpbarry

Rb wrote: »

I didn't mean to imply that their "culture" justifies attacking them, however I can certainly understand people saying "enough is enough".

So you condone the attacks. That’s what I thought.

Rb wrote: »

The biggest problem is our government and local representatives refusing to deal with immigration in a constructive manner...

Our government? We’re not talking about Belfast?

Rb wrote: »

This attitude angers people and I can understand them getting frustrated and taking it out on those who are seen by, to be quite honest, most as a drain/leech on society, who contribute nothing and have no interest in integrating, or observing local or national "traditions" or culture.

That’s a pretty impressive character assessment of the victims that you’ve managed to compile there from a few scraps of information in the media.

Rb wrote: »

Similarly I can understand their compassion for their fellow Irish man who is out of a job and is sitting around during the days...

Do double standards much?

Rb wrote: »

I wasn't saying that objecting to the attacks was a liberal attitude. I'm just shocked at how little some people care about this country in the name of being seen as "good", or, "politically correct".

I don’t have a clue what you’re on about at this stage. You think people are condemning these attacks just to appear “politically correct”?

Rb wrote: »

...I want to see immigration dealt with quite sternley as, as I've already said, those who can do something about it have sat on their hands and have let just about anyone in...

We talking about Ireland or the UK? Because I was under the impression that it was actually pretty damn difficult for a non-EU citizen to get a permit to work in Ireland.

Rb wrote: »

Funnily enough though, I don't think there's ever been such a good time to tackle the subject as I believe voter support would be considerably higher than ever before.

The ICP would most likely disagree.

dracula's son

I'm romanian, and I had a lot of exposure to gypsies and their culture here (ROI) there (EU) and everywhere (Transilvania) and I have to disagree with the posters who are still under the impression that romanian gypsies are working.
Let's face it, do you really think you can pay the rent and bills from selling Issue magazine? even if they wanted to take employment it will be very difficult for them because as romanians (even we are in EU) we need a work permit (a work permit is issued for some categories of profesionals and for jobs paid with 30K + / anum)
most of the gypsies they don't have extensive education hence the chances to get a job paid with 30K+ are next to zero, not to mention they are crippled due to lack of english language. These are facts and I'm not telling this in anger, this is what they are, and they are not going to change.

the authorities in NI and ROI should make some "spring cleaning" not the angry mobs, and this will send the mesage to the gypsies "dont go there they stopped the free money"

wes

dracula's son wrote: »

I'm romanian, and I had a lot of exposure to gypsies and their culture here (ROI) there (EU) and everywhere (Transilvania) and I have to disagree with the posters who are still under the impression that romanian gypsies are working.

So, you don't know much about them, but still feel yourself qualified to come to this conclusion? Um, how does that make sense? You undermine your own statement in the sentence preceding it, when you basically admit to know nothing about the Roma.

dracula's son wrote: »

Let's face it, do you really think you can pay the rent and bills from selling Issue magazine? even if they wanted to take employment it will be very difficult for them because as romanians (even we are in EU) we need a work permit (a work permit is issued for some categories of profesionals and for jobs paid with 30K + / anum)
most of the gypsies they don't have extensive education hence the chances to get a job paid with 30K+ are next to zero, not to mention they are crippled due to lack of english language. These are facts and I'm not telling this in anger, this is what they are, and they are not going to change.

My Mum, managed to raise 3 kids, while working in Mc Donalds and she only had Junior cert level education. Its very possible that Roma can support themselves by working, regardless of there education.

dracula's son wrote: »

the authorities in NI and ROI should make some "spring cleaning" not the angry mobs, and this will send the mesage to the gypsies "dont go there they stopped the free money"

So your advocating discrimination against the Roma? I have to say, what your calling for is nothing short of appalling and quite frankly disturbing.

Tha Gopher

djpbarry wrote: »

How do you know that the victims of these attacks were not working or trying to find work?

Do you think most of them are working?

Really?

The funniest thing here is that you dont actually like the Roma. Really, you are fooling nobody. You have only ever seen them harassing people at ATM machines, hanging round the streets doing FA and having kids here for welfare. When was the last time you worked with any, or saw any working?

If they all came here and lived completely independent of the state and worked at even feckin rose selling, Id be happy.

Its the fact they are getting benefits during a recession, that they are harassing people on the street, and that a disturbing amount of the youth court articles in the Examiner contain the line "the teen, originally from Romania" that concerns me. It concerns you as well, its bound to.

johnnyc

wes wrote: »

So, you don't know much about them, but still feel yourself qualified to come to this conclusion? Um, how does that make sense? You undermine your own statement in the sentence preceding it, when you basically admit to know nothing about the Roma.

Ah wes everybody is entilted to an opinion maybe dracula_son has had more experience to the roma gypsies then you or I. So would you be at least courteous to the fella

wes wrote: »

My Mum, managed to raise 3 kids, while working in Mc Donalds and she only had Junior cert level education. Its very possible that Roma can support themselves by working, regardless of there education.

Fair play to your mother she was a hard worker, but the vast majority of roma gypsies have been brought up in a begging tradition. I remember a report was compiled by a It lecturer (having the link to hand at the moment will find it soon) about the irish traveller and why they are the poorest section in irish society. One of the major parts in the report was on about the education of the travellers( this could be applicable to gypsies as well), and that their children were going to fail due to nomatic lifestyle and this would continue until the nomatic culture was broken. The lecturer also was on about that they were brought up in a culture of failure( education wise). So to get back to your point that Roma can support themselves by working, regardless of there education if they cant speak ,spell english and there children loose out on a education how are they going to advance in the 21st century

wes wrote: »

So your advocating discrimination against the Roma? I have to say, what your calling for is nothing short of appalling and quite frankly disturbing.

We are'nt advocating discrimation against gypsies but they are helping there cause by leeching off the rest of society, begging people for money next atm machines. This behaviour in ireland is not acceptable and only creates distain for the roma throughout indigenous population and other nationalities as well

dracula's son

Wes,

your mom could work in NI and/or ROI without any restrictions (work permit) she knows the language and she's respecting the laws of the country, and the most important one your mom had the will to work, something the gypsies never had (and I'm talking about a lifetime experience)
I have a lot of respect for your mother.

but did you ever asked yourself how come gypsy's childrens adopted by irish families have performed well in schools, and were raised in Ireland and become good citizens, and in the same time childrens of gypsyies raised by gypsies (in IRL) are begging on the streets instead of being in the clasroom with other childrens. The gypsy parents they don't realise they are confiscating the future of their childrens by pushing them on the streets to beg. These are real problems, not the fact that I'm not loving them. If you want to be politically corect and not discriminating them, fine with me, we have another million in Romania... take them all I don't mind.

D's s

johnathan woss

So djpbarry, oscarbravo and conor74, when are the Roma moving into your houses ?

Rb

djpbarry wrote: »

So you condone the attacks. That’s what I thought.
Our government? We’re not talking about Belfast?
That’s a pretty impressive character assessment of the victims that you’ve managed to compile there from a few scraps of information in the media.
Do double standards much?
I don’t have a clue what you’re on about at this stage. You think people are condemning these attacks just to appear “politically correct”?
We talking about Ireland or the UK? Because I was under the impression that it was actually pretty damn difficult for a non-EU citizen to get a permit to work in Ireland.
The ICP would most likely disagree.

Ok djpbarry, I'll ask you this:

If you could choose whether to have them in the country or not, and by choosing not they would just magically disappear, which would you choose?

If you choose the former, I can only call you a liar.

I brought up our government because I'm familiar with the attitude of the people down here and didn't want to speak on behalf of the northern Irish, however I would imagine their attitudes are similar if not more militant.

P. Breathnach

I am appalled at the overt racism that people are displaying in this thread.

Everybody has the right to be considered as an individual.

P. Breathnach

johnathan woss wrote: »

So djpbarry, oscarbravo and conor74, when are the Roma moving into your houses ?

I'd sooner have one of them than one of you.

Rb

P. Breathnach wrote: »

I am appalled at the overt racism that people are displaying in this thread.

Everybody has the right to be considered as an individual.

I'm sorry, but they do it to themselves.

The majority of other immigrants here are considered as individuals and most separate the bad actions of few from the good of many.

However, in the case of Roma (and, funnily enough, travellers), the bad actions of many have shot the chances of the good ones ever being accepted.

I would consider most to judge others by the actions of the majority, so you (if you've any experience with Roma) can see how this will go against them.

P. Breathnach

Rb wrote: »

I'm sorry, but they do it to themselves.
...

I see a few people here who are doing it to them.

Rb

P. Breathnach wrote: »

I see a few people here who are doing it to them.

Excellent selective quoting and ignoring the rest of what was said, seemingly a trait between the liberals who want to defend these people.
Consequently, I won't be engaging you on the matter further.

P. Breathnach

Rb wrote: »

Excellent selective quoting and ignoring the rest of what was said, seemingly a trait between the liberals who want to defend these people.

Selective quoting? The post I was quoting was immediately above mine, and hardly invisible.

And why use the word "liberal"? Are you one of those who uses it as a term of contempt?

Consequently, I won't be engaging you on the matter further.

Ouch! That really hurts.

johnnyc

P. Breathnach wrote: »

I'd sooner have one of them than one of you.

Oh ok so will you pay for then as well and give then accommodation. The unemployment rate for romas is close to 100% in slovakia and i recon thats the same for ireland as well.

http://romnews.com/community/modules.php?op=modload&name=News&file=article&sid=371

"Due to Vincent Danihel, representative of the Slovak government for the Roma, the unemployment of Roma amounts to nearly 100 %. They can exist only by government aid. "

johnathan woss

P. Breathnach wrote: »

I'd sooner have one of them than one of you.

Great is that an offer?

I'm sure your local government will be happy to hear of your offer.
You can pay for their healthcare, education, benefits, food, clothes, etc too.

johnathan woss

@dracula's son;

What do average Romanians think of Ireland and Great Britain accepting so many Roma into our countries ?

P. Breathnach

johnathan woss wrote: »

Great is that an offer?

I'm sure your local government will be happy to hear of your offer.
You can pay for their healthcare, education, benefits, food, clothes, etc too.

I have encountered nine year olds who argue in a more mature way than you do.

When do we progress to comparing willies?

djpbarry

Tha Gopher wrote: »

Do you think most of them are working?

What I think is irrelevant. I have no idea what their employment status was, but they must have been supporting themselves somehow.

Tha Gopher wrote: »

If they all came here and lived completely independent of the state and worked at even feckin rose selling, Id be happy.

Its the fact they are getting benefits during a recession...

I presume by “they” that you mean all Roma in Ireland? Care to demonstrate how someone could come to this country and claim welfare without first making PRSI contributions?

djpbarry

Rb wrote: »

If you could choose whether to have them in the country or not, and by choosing not they would just magically disappear, which would you choose?

I’d have to choose to keep them in the country, because otherwise one of my work colleagues would “disappear” and I’d be a little stuck without him.

Rb wrote: »

I brought up our government because I'm familiar with the attitude of the people down here and didn't want to speak on behalf of the northern Irish...

But you can speak on behalf of the population of the Republic?

valery

Hagar wrote: »

Racist sectarian mobs attacking and driving Romanians from their homes in Lisburn Road area of South Belfast. Loyalist paramilitary groups suspected as being involved. Given the area it happened in it couldn't really have been anyone else.

Have the Loyalists finally stepped over the line dividing sectarianism and Nazism?

Link to story on BBC News

Link to story on Sky News

Link to story on RTE News

really annoyes me that. And the way the loyalists are talking about diluting their britishness smacks of nazism all right. is there a gene for reverse evolution ????

oscarBravo

johnathan woss wrote: »

So djpbarry, oscarbravo and conor74, when are the Roma moving into your houses ?

I don't want anyone moving into my house, thanks. How many down-and-out Irish people have you invited to live in your house lately?

johnathan woss

oscarBravo wrote: »

I don't want anyone moving into my house, thanks. How many down-and-out Irish people have you invited to live in your house lately?

None.

But I'm not arguing that everyone ELSE should be housing, feeding, educating, etc foreign gypsies with THEIR tax money and THEIR services.