Romanians Victims of Racist Attacks

dracula's son

Look guys, I stated as a Romanian citizen, that I have no respect for those Romanian gypsies, which they never worked and they never will.
this statement is making me a racist?
why for the simple reason that I presented some historical facts from source (Romania) some readers will make the assumptions that I'm trying to justify the attacks. In my opinion is very important to have the big picture here, and I'm not talking about the two teens who carried out the attacks (I doubt the can judge the gypsies from social perspective) I'm talking about users who really thinks this is binary answer to a simple question. The gypsy social issue is a very complex thing and is affecting more than one society (this issue is a pan European thing)
D's s

Nodin

opo wrote: »

Yet again, I find myself objecting to a moderator inferring that I would justify violence against immigrants because I don't explicitly state otherwise.

When you make the odd bark thats suspicously dog-like, you have to expect the odd guess that you may indeed be some form of canine, eg

I am am still waiting for anyone covering this story to mention the most basic information, such as, how many houses the 100+ "victims" lived in and why they were there; before moving on to the various preferred, sublimed, racism, intolerance and pre-genocidal slants.

There is a difference between a family living in a house that are working and contributing to society and several families piled into a house, contributing nothing but a nuisance to society.

opo

Nodin wrote: »

When you make the odd bark thats suspicously dog-like, you have to expect the odd guess that you may indeed be some form of canine, eg

I see.

I've again gone from trying to establish the context of this story to wishing people terrorised out of their homes.

oscarBravo

opo wrote: »

Why don't you start a thread on your preferred topic?

This is on-topic. Some people were terrorised out of their homes by a mob. There seems to be an undercurrent on this thread that they somehow deserved to be terrorised out of their homes. I'm trying to establish what, exactly, they did to deserve it.

I don't apologise for not prostrating myself on the alter of political correctness before making a point or failing to post my perfect pc credentials everytime I enter one a one sided discussion with a sanctimonious bore.

That's just noise, with a tinge of personal abuse. You're falling back on arm-waving to avoid answering a perfectly straightforward question.

Yet again, I find myself objecting to a moderator inferring that I would justify violence against immigrants because I don't explicitly state otherwise.

If that's being inferred, it's inferred only by your repeated refusal to clarify your position.

dracula's son wrote: »

Look guys, I stated as a Romanian citizen, that I have no respect for those Romanian gypsies, which they never worked and they never will.

Have we established for a fact that the Roma involved in this particular case never worked? How exactly do you go about establishing for a fact that they never will?

opo wrote: »

I see.

I've again gone from trying to establish the context of this story to wishing people terrorised out of their homes.

Again with the aggressive-defensiveness.

I don't believe that there are any circumstances which justify a mob terrorising a family out of their home. It seems that in your eyes this makes me a sanctimonious bore with perfect PC credentials who prostrates myself on the altar of political correctness. I'm not afraid to nail my colours to the mast. What are you afraid of?

Nodin

opo wrote: »

I see.

I've again gone from trying to establish the context of this story to wishing people terrorised out of their homes.

Hmmm, and what context would that be? Not the general mood of the area, not the attitude towards 'foreigners' overall, not its economic status, but solely that of the Roma/Romanians.

What could possibly be the implication of this, for instance, if not some sort of search for a justification?

There is a difference between a family living in a house that are working and contributing to society and several families piled into a house, contributing nothing but a nuisance to society.

If you've an explanation, feel free to put it in......

wes

opo wrote: »

I see.

I've again gone from trying to establish the context of this story to wishing people terrorised out of their homes.

So, you trying to establish that there is a irrational hatred of the Roma community in Europe and that this irrational hatred, directly leads to attacks on the community? If thats the case, then fair enough, but I some how doubt that was the point you were trying to make.

Zambia

dracula's son wrote: »

Look guys, I stated as a Romanian citizen, that I have no respect for those Romanian gypsies, which they never worked and they never will.
this statement is making me a racist?

Dont worry about it , its the same thing with Knackers in ireland. Even those who advocate their existance dont want them in their estate.:mad:

opo

wes wrote: »

So, you trying to establish that there is a irrational hatred of the Roma community in Europe and that this irrational hatred, directly leads to attacks on the community? If thats the case, then fair enough, but I some how doubt that was the point you were trying to make.

I am trying to establish the basics:

How many Roma were there to a home on the street?
What were they doing to support themselves?
How integrated were they?
Why were they there?

Etc.

Having previously lived near Roma who were less than perfect neighbours, fired rubbish outside their homes, were unruly and unpleasant and who seemed to have no difficulty in allowing their childern defecate on the public pavement, I am curious as to the facts surrounding this story.

For the benefit of the accusers, no, I did not terrorise them out of their homes even though at times I felt threatened in my own by their behaviour.

And to be honest, if a window had been broken and they moved on, I would have shed few tears for them nor would I have wished for such an event.

I took the easier option and "fled".

Nodin

opo wrote: »

I am trying to establish the basics:

How many Roma were there to a home on the street?
What were they doing to support themselves?
How integrated were they?
Why were they there?
".

The basics as pertaining to the Roma, and the Roma alone. You've been ample opportunity to explain that focus, but seem to have decided not to...

opo wrote: »

Having previously lived near Roma who were less than perfect neighbours, fired rubbish outside their homes, were unruly and unpleasant and who seemed to have no difficulty in allowing their childern defecate on the public pavement, I am curious as to the facts surrounding this story.".

....some of the facts.

dracula's son

Have we established for a fact that the Roma involved in this particular case never worked?

no, I did not, but based on my 40+ years experience living in the same country with them, I can bet my house on this.

How exactly do you go about establishing for a fact that they never will?

because I've seen millions of them, I did not see even one changing, you can call it stereotype if you want, but I know how the gypsies are thinking.
In fairness I have to admit that I've seen well educated gypsies (teaching in universities) but that's one in 100K people, and you'll not find such a person on social welfare in Belfast.

wes

opo wrote: »

I am trying to establish the basics:

How many Roma were there to a home on the street?
What were they doing to support themselves?
How integrated were they?
Why were they there?

Etc.

Why does it matter? If they were engaged in criminal activity they could have been reported to the police.

Seeing as they weren't reported to the police for any criminal activity and there is nothing to suggest they were doing anything wrong in the media, then I think it safe to assume they did nothing wrong.

opo wrote: »

Having previously lived near Roma who were less than perfect neighbours, fired rubbish outside their homes, were unruly and unpleasant and who seemed to have no difficulty in allowing their childern defecate on the public pavement, I am curious as to the facts surrounding this story.

If people were breaking the law (i think dumping rubbish outside your home would qaulify here), then why not go to the police then?!?

opo wrote: »

For the benefit of the accusers, no, I did not terrorise them out of their homes even though at times I felt threatened in my own by their behaviour.

Again, report them to the police.

opo wrote: »

And to be honest, if a window had been broken and they moved on, I would have shed few tears for them nor would I have wished for such an event.

I took the easier option and "fled".

Ok, so you have a bad experience with some Roma. Fair enough.

I fail to see why you then assume these guys who were kicked out of there homes were the same. Plenty of local people tried to help them out, which to me says, that they were certainly welcomed by most of the community, with the exception of a crazed racist minority.

opo

Nodin wrote: »

....some of the facts.

No. Just the ones left out.

wes wrote: »

I fail to see why you then assume these guys who were kicked out of there homes were the same. Plenty of local people tried to help them out, which to me says, that they were certainly welcomed by most of the community, with the exception of a crazed racist minority.

I am assuming nothing although I suspect my own personal experience of Roma is far from an isolated case.

wes

opo wrote: »

I am assuming nothing although I suspect my own personal experience of Roma is far from an isolated case.

Well, to be honest, I don't see why your question are relevant. What we do know is that some people were attacked by a group of racist criminals. Do you ask the same questions when other people are attacked?!?

opo

wes wrote: »

Well, to be honest, I don't see why your question are relevant. What we do know is that some people were attacked by a group of racist criminals. Do you ask the same questions when other people are attacked?!?

Would it upset you if a paeodophile was run out of an area with kids?

P. Breathnach

wes wrote: »

Well, to be honest, I don't see why your question are relevant. What we do know is that some people were attacked by a group of racist criminals. Do you ask the same questions when other people are attacked?!?

It seems like we are back to the mindset where a girl wearing a short skirt was seen as asking to be raped.

wes

opo wrote: »

Would it upset you if a paeodophile was run out of an area with kids?

So your comparing the Roma to paeodophiles? You have got to be joking, So you have bascially given up all pretense?!?

Also, I didn't answer you question, as I refuse to dignify it by providing an answer.

opo

wes wrote: »

So your comparing the Roma to paeodophiles? You have got to be joking, So you have bascially given up all pretense?!?

Also, I didn't answer you question, as I refuse to dignify it by providing an answer.

I asked you a hypothethical question. Clearly you are in good company here making more wild assumptions.

opo

P. Breathnach wrote: »

It seems like we are back to the mindset where a girl wearing a short skirt was seen as asking to be raped.

Are you?

Why not start a thread on your theory.

wes

opo wrote: »

I asked you a hypothethical question. Clearly you are in good company here making more wild assumptions.

Pure nonsense, it was very much a leading question.

Here is a question to you then, why mentioned paeodophiles in this thread at all? Why is that question relevant to the discussion. At the very best, your question is irrelevant, and that is being extremly kind.

opo

wes wrote: »

Pure nonsense, it was very much a leading question.

Here is a question to you then, why mentioned paeodophiles in this thread at all? Why is that question relevant to the discussion. At the very best, your question is irrelevant, and that is being extremly kind.

No need to be kind.

I have no interest in you or others flattering yourselves with your trigger happy snipes, constant pc policing and general self preening.

P. Breathnach

opo wrote: »

...Why not start a thread on your theory.

This thread is about attacks on Romanians (who happen also to be Roma); all you seem interested in is scrutinising the victims in such a way as to suggest that you are seeking a justification for the attacks.

Why are you doing a Gerry Adams style refusal to condemn? Is it because you approve of the attacks, but are not sufficiently forthright to say so?

Nodin

opo wrote: »

No. Just the ones left out..

..about the Roma, and nothing or no-one else.

Would it upset you if a paeodophile was run out of an area with kids?

And whats that to do with anything, other than more sly attempts at justification.....

opo wrote: »

I asked you a hypothethical question...

...yes, for reasons outlined above....unless you can provide an explanation otherwise....

djpbarry

Bottle_of_Smoke wrote: »

They wouldn't be culturally roma though, ethnically yes, but I don't think that's what the poster was referring to.

Just pointing out the grey areas involved in 'ethnic classification'.

opo wrote: »

I have no interest in you or others flattering yourselves with your trigger happy snipes, constant pc policing and general self preening.

Indeed; how dare we condemn attacks on the homes of these (apparently guilty until proven innocent) people.

johnnyc

djpbarry wrote: »

Indeed; how dare we condemn attacks on the homes of these (apparently guilty until proven innocent) people.

Look any right mind person would condemn attacks on any minority group. But the question to be asked what drove people to attack these people?.

solice

johnnyc wrote: »

Look any right mind person would condemn attacks on any minority group. But the question to be asked what drove people to attack these people?.

There has to be a reason?

Scumbags dont need reasons because by definiton they are scumbags...

I was mugged, I know people who were beaten up on a night out, there was no reason to it! It just happened.

Scum are above reason...

wes

opo wrote: »

No need to be kind.

I have no interest in you or others flattering yourselves with your trigger happy snipes, constant pc policing and general self preening.

I have no interest in being PC either, but I honestly fail to see the relevance of paeodophiles to the dicussion and I find it nothing short of bizare that you even brought them up. You were clearly asking a leading question, and when called on it, have gone into denial mode instead.

wes

johnnyc wrote: »

Look any right mind person would condemn attacks on any minority group. But the question to be asked what drove people to attack these people?.

An irrational hatred of the Roma people imho. Hatred of the Roma is very common in Europe btw.

P. Breathnach

johnnyc wrote: »

Look any right mind person would condemn attacks on any minority group. But the question to be asked what drove people to attack these people?.

There are some, like opo, who seem to think that condemning the attacks should be conditional:

I am am still waiting for anyone covering this story to mention the most basic information, such as, how many houses the 100+ "victims" lived in and why they were there; before moving on to the various preferred, sublimed, racism, intolerance and pre-genocidal slants.

Of course the question has to be asked why those who attacked the Roma did so. But your phrasing "what drove people to attack" looks loaded: it seems to imply that the victims may have caused the attack.

It is quite possible that many in the Roma group were wrongdoers (I'm not saying they were, because I don't know). That would not justify attacking them. A civilised society does not operate that way.

opo

P. Breathnach wrote: »

There are some, like opo, who seem to think that condemning the attacks should be conditional:.

Wrong again.

There are however some that think the reasons for the attack were racism based on nothing more than the fact they are foreign.

The same people can be counted upon to assume racism in any encounter with a foreigner and ascribe victim status instantly without knowing (or wanting to know) the facts.

This is of course an inverted bigotry that any racist can readily identify with.

johnnyc

P. Breathnach wrote: »

It is quite possible that many in the Roma group were wrongdoers (I'm not saying they were, because I don't know). That would not justify attacking them. A civilised society does not operate that way.

I have to agree with you there breathnach a civil society should never attack even wrongdoers, but theres many civil society australia one, where they have a streamlined aproach to removal of people back to there home countries. At the moment alot of romas gypsies are taking medical cards, rent allowances etc. I had a link which states the unemployment rate for roma gypsies runs at close to 100% per cent in slovakia. The government has to be blunt with roma gypsies, we are borrowing money to pay for the social welfare system and if you have never contributed by working they should be removed back to romania, we have enough problems paying for people who have lost there jobs recently and have made a contribution.