Irish Oil off the Mayo coast for free!!!!

astrofool

So, the answer to a bloated public employee wage bill is to....

Set up a gas exploration and drilling company for our one gas field, as a semi state company.

We have some genii on these shores.

turgon

But you see astorfool, these people dont want to think about the pragmatics of their solution, they only think of the ideal that the oil is ours.

As Conrad said "What redeems it is the idea only."

Aidan1

The Corrib gas field off the Mayo coast is estimated to by worth in the region of 51,300,000,000 euros. Fifty one point three billion euros.

Rubbish. Corrib is widely quoted as containing around 1tscuf of gas - putting it somewhat smaller than the Kinsale field. Depending on the price of gas over the life of the field, and the eventual recoverability of the wells (Seven Heads proved to be much less worthwhile than expected, after all), the likely value in today's money is of the order of €6-8bn. The development costs are generally quoted at being in excess of €1bn (probably more now - those figures were in the press in 2005), leaving 'profit' of €5-€7bn, of which the state gets 25% in Corporation tax (double the normal rate). And of course our security of supply situation gets very much improved.

1huge1

I'll be honest I never read much into the whole corrib gas issue but if your average corrib gas campaigner is as arragont as the OP I sure wouldn't be giving them my support with such an elitist attitude where everyone else is wrong and wont even listen to reason quoting exaggerated figures.

This is not a personal attack but I do believe if the OP actually read some of the responses he could of had the debate he was supposdly looking for.

dermo88

1. The Rock and Shale where the Oil and gas are contained off the Irish West Coast lie in some of the worst sea conditions in the world.

2. They lie at a considerable depth.

3. The Rock is fragmented, which makes accessing this resource difficult and expensive.

4. It will not (initially) yield as much as the Scandinavian or North Se oil fields.

These are the difficulties. Therefore, I state let the private sector handle the risk and the reward. Should it become productive, the public sector can get involved with a Nationalised Oil company, set up on similar lines to Malaysia's Petronas, Norways Statoil etc, and the taxes yielded from the initial revenues can go to finance this.

I do have misgivings, however, on WHO allocated the licences to the various companies. Who was in charge of the Department of Energy at that time.

It was not Saint Patrick, thats for sure. It was none other than Raphael (Ray) Burke, who has since been proven to be one of Irelands more visibly corrupt politicians.

1. Statoil claim that we are "giving" the oil away. Considering the geological conditions, at present there is no other option, except to tax it at a relatively low rate. This ensures that risk is rewarded. A poor man never got rich by making a rich man poor.

2. Oil in large quantities will not be a panacea to Irelands economic problems. On the contrary, it is in fact likely to make Ireland less competitive, and make the economy even more imbalanced than it ever was on the property market. We may look at Norway, but the effects of oil on Norway, its economy, its currency exchange rate have been to make it 2 - 3 times more expensive than comparable economies.

3. Oil has a nasty tendency to "crowd" out other productive sectors of the economy.

4. Oil is a medium term 1-2 generation crutch which should be invested wisely. Do you REALLY trust Irish politicians to do that, considering what has prevailed over the past year?

In short, an oil find would be nice, but it would'nt be long before it caused problems. It would turn Ireland into somewhere as corrupt as Malaysia with a climate a bit better than Norway.

eamonnm79

Aidan1 wrote: »

Rubbish. Corrib is widely quoted as containing around 1tscuf of gas - putting it somewhat smaller than the Kinsale field. Depending on the price of gas over the life of the field, and the eventual recoverability of the wells (Seven Heads proved to be much less worthwhile than expected, after all), the likely value in today's money is of the order of €6-8bn. The development costs are generally quoted at being in excess of €1bn (probably more now - those figures were in the press in 2005), leaving 'profit' of €5-€7bn, of which the state gets 25% in Corporation tax (double the normal rate). And of course our security of supply situation gets very much improved.

Hi Aidan.
You seem to be quite knowlegable on this so I was wondering if you could help me with a few questions.

Who found the Corrib gas field?
Was it Shell or a smaller Gas exploration company?

Apart from the development costs what other costs would there be over the years of exploration? In other words how much of the 5-7 million would there actually be in profit?
Will the costs be tax deductable?
Someothers have said the tax rate will be 40%
Is it 25% or 40%
Wont it be quite easy for shell to hide/reduce their actual profitsby moving cost centres?

Giving away 75% of 5-7 billion, lets say 4.5 billion to a multinational of our natural resources when they only have to make 1 billion development cost seems a little foolish?
Even if Ireland inc were twice as expensive to make the pipeline and other infrastructure required it would still save the Irish economy 3.5 billion.
Dont we already have some expertise in this area working in Bord Gais?
So it wouldnt be like we are starting from scratch?

astrofool

eamonnm79 wrote: »

Hi Aidan.
You seem to be quite knowlegable on this so I was wondering if you could help me with a few questions.

Who found the Corrib gas field?
Was it Shell or a smaller Gas exploration company?

Apart from the development costs what other costs would there be over the years of exploration? In other words how much of the 5-7 million would there actually be in profit?
Will the costs be tax deductable?
Someothers have said the tax rate will be 40%
Is it 25% or 40%
Wont it be quite easy for shell to hide/reduce their actual profitsby moving cost centres?

Giving away 75% of 5-7 billion, lets say 4.5 billion to a multinational of our natural resources when they only have to make 1 billion development cost seems a little foolish?
Even if Ireland inc were twice as expensive to make the pipeline and other infrastructure required it would still save the Irish economy 3.5 billion.
Dont we already have some expertise in this area working in Bord Gais?
So it wouldnt be like we are starting from scratch?

You could point to Venezuela, which has seen a radical nosedive in oil production since they nationalised, due to lack of expertise, leaving the country almost bankrupt.

Let the experts do their job (offshore drilling), if more fields are found, then it might be worth setting up a national company.

eamonnm79

astrofool wrote: »

You could point to Venezuela, which has seen a radical nosedive in oil production since they nationalised, due to lack of expertise, leaving the country almost bankrupt.

Let the experts do their job (offshore drilling), if more fields are found, then it might be worth setting up a national company.

I dont know if you are just ill informed or are diliberitely misleading but that analysis of Venezuela is complete and utter rubish.

turgon

A point to make: people are often times complaining that the government cant even organise a proper transport system; yet people want them to also branch into oil drilling. How ridiculous.

Also, apparently the Corrib Gas is owned by the Irish People. Is this the Irish people in the republic or the Island as a whole? Why does being a citizen of a country where there is oil entitle you to some it? Should we also stake a claim to Scotlands oil - it is in the EU you know. Should the oil only belong to those in Mayo? Or even Corrib?

I would really like some clarification on that point.

astrofool

eamonnm79 wrote: »

I dont know if you are just ill informed or are diliberitely misleading but that analysis of Venezuela is complete and utter rubish.

I'd love to see your analysis of Venezuela to the contrary, oil production is down 25% since Chavez began nationalising the oil over the last decade.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/southamerica/venezuela/3183417/Venezuelas-oil-output-slumps-under-Hugo-Chavez.html

And that's without going into the many social problems the country has, high inflation, inability to exchange currency, people leaving the country etc.

eamonnm79

astrofool wrote: »

I'd love to see your analysis of Venezuela to the contrary, oil production is down 25% since Chavez began nationalising the oil over the last decade.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/southamerica/venezuela/3183417/Venezuelas-oil-output-slumps-under-Hugo-Chavez.html

And that's without going into the many social problems the country has, high inflation, inability to exchange currency, people leaving the country etc.

The Dialy telegraph, enough said!

Pure pro corporate propaganda.



I enjoyed the last paragraph!
"All this means that Venezuela has missed much of the benefit from the oil boom and, now that prices are falling, Mr Chavez faces huge financial problems. Nobody is sure at what point his government would be unable to pay its bills, but most sources consulted believe this would probably happen if oil falls to $80 a barrel. Yesterday, oil was trading at $79.80.

Thankfully actual evidence is now available that "most sources consulted" are talking through their arse's. The last 8 months has seen prices range between $45 and $65 so obviously Venezuela have gone bankrupt and are in the hands of the IMF!

Oh wait, that never happened!

Look obviously we are in a global recession and poorer countries always fare proportionately worse but negative media commentary on any left leaning government are as common as paraletic nurses in copper face jacks.

j1smithy

marabhfuil wrote: »

I, and not I alone, do find the reasoning behind the practical wholesale giveaway of the Corrib gasfield, off the coast of Mayo, to Shell Statoil and Marathon oil companies quite an extraordinary act of national traitorism and equally befuddling is the almost complete and utter disinterest in the deal done by our government by both the Irish public and media in the main.

Norwegian health and social welfare makes Irelands look like a third world nation in comparison and it is a well known fact that the Norwegians, thanks to the shrewd actions taken on behalf of their nation by their government at the time that deposits of natural gas and oil were discovered within their sovereign territory by setting up a national state oil company in Statoil, would not have the top class model of social services that they benefit from today.

The Corrib gas field off the Mayo coast is estimated to by worth in the region of 51,300,000,000 euros. Fifty one point three billion euros. Or fifty one billion three hundred million euros. Whatever way you write or look at it that is a considerable amount of money. That would go a fair way dealing with the current crisis would it not?

Why has the Irish government made the decision not to start up our own state owned gas company? Why not invest in the equipment and expertice to do so and keep the profit made for the people of Ireland. Why not invest a Billion in the starting of a company and reap the benefit for generations to come? Strange dealings have been done. Shadowy figures are invoved. Dead ends and hollow excuses surround this whole thing entirely. The political debate is mute. But why?

Do you know that it is within our constitutional rights to reposses this resource, that we could simply take back the Corrib gas field? Yes we can. Our constitution makes provision for it. So why, especially in such a time of economic distress, is this avenue not being investigated and debated? Something smells fishey. Something reeks. Does anybody else smell it, the unmistakeable odour of rot and corruption? Fester. Putrification. Plenty of words for it. But in the end they all mean the same thing. Our government is rotten.

Does anybody actually know for how much has the Corrib gas field been given away? I bet some of you do and i bet some of you are going to be very surprised to find out!!!

So what you suggest is that after we licence operators to look for natural resources that were by no means certain to be there, and after the licences were awarded and paid for, and the gas company was lucky enough to find gas after many expensive failed attempts, the government simply decides to just take it off them. Does that seem fair? Do you think many companies would see Ireland as a good place to do business?

There was a good reason for the favourible terms offered to Shell. No one really thought there was a significant deposit of gas in corrib field, let alone that it would even be extractable. I believe the government geologists also believed that, and gave that as advice to the minister. The sale of licences then looked like an easy way to generate cash, without much risk of giving too much national asset away. Corrib field is also deep and difficult to drill. We didn't have the resources to drill essentially random/best guess holes in the Atlantic. Or look at it this way.. newspaper headline "hundreds of million wasted on useless holes drilled off coast of Mayo" "while hospitals face cutbacks".

Finally, we are at the end of a very long pipe from Russia. I like the fact we will have security of supply.

Yes I would prefer that the corrib gas field was being extracted by a national company, and providing revenue for the government. However I am also intelligent enough to realise that such a company would have required a massive government outlay. The government would have been exposed to too much risk ie. spending well over a billion and possibly finding nothing.

Shell to Sea seem to ignore this and thats why I have no time for those clowns.

eamonnm79

j1smithy wrote: »

So what you suggest is that after we licence operators to look for natural resources that were by no means certain to be there, and after the licences were awarded and paid for, and the gas company was lucky enough to find gas after many expensive failed attempts, the government simply decides to just take it off them. Does that seem fair?

Are you sure thats the way it happened?
I thought, the way it works is that a smaller exploration company find the oil and then once they find it they either get a large company (like shell or exon or chevron) or the particular state to pay them a % of the oil they extract.

wylo

Can someone please put up a reputable link which contains info on the amount the corrib gas field is worth??

Seriously , its very frustrating the way people give off their own personal quotes with nothing to back it up.

Even recently, I was arguing with someone in work about it, with absolutely no research he told me that there was enough gas there that no one in this country would have to work again. It was the most ridiculous thing Id ever heard, and naturally hed nothing to back it up. But heres the problem , neither did I.
I want to settle that one once and for all.

Sponge Bob

Less than Kinsale and with a lower output . However if fields are discovered nearby ( within 30 miles) they may be "tied back" to Corrib meaning they are cheaper to get onstream .

Meanwhile to understand the lingo read THIS FIRST and ask questions based on it .

astrofool

Sponge Bob wrote: »

Less than Kinsale and with a lower output . However if fields are discovered nearby ( within 30 miles) they may be "tied back" to Corrib meaning they are cheaper to get onstream .

Meanwhile to understand the lingo read THIS FIRST and ask questions based on it .

Like stealing a milkshake? sip sip sip.

Sponge Bob

He could always read this which is utterly basic but he needs to understand demand and the fact that gas is used to produce electricity etc .

eamonnm79

wylo wrote: »

Can someone please put up a reputable link which contains info on the amount the corrib gas field is worth??

Seriously , its very frustrating the way people give off their own personal quotes with nothing to back it up.

Even recently, I was arguing with someone in work about it, with absolutely no research he told me that there was enough gas there that no one in this country would have to work again. It was the most ridiculous thing Id ever heard, and naturally hed nothing to back it up. But heres the problem , neither did I.
I want to settle that one once and for all.

I completely agree wylo. There is a complete lack of openness and transparancy with regards to this issue. I smell a rat.

Spongebob thanks for trying to provide info but the only interesting thing I saw in the SBP article was "However, a spokeswoman for Bord Gais said that the Corrib gas would not necessarily result in lower gas prices.
The price of gas from the Corrib field will be linked to British wholesale prices, as the two gas markets are integrated and Corrib gas will displace some imports,” she said.
So All I have now are more questions.

Why not use the corrib field to reduce prices and help the economy become more competitive? Have the price of the gas already been agreed with shell. i.e. did the state agree (sign something) to pay them the British wholesale price?

Sponge Bob

The operator is allowed to charge UK prices becuase MOST of our gas , 90% . now comes from the UK transmission network and even after Corrib goes live and supplements Kinsale it is envisaged that the combination of the two will only produce 70% of our requirements and that this % will fall over time .

In other words we need a second Corrib to become self sufficient and a third to export .

If we do not get a second Corrib onstream ....and we can only technically achieve this quickly off Mayo or off Cork .....then we shall be back importing the majority of our gas from the UK by 2013 or 2014 . We will only get a few years where we produce teh majority of our own gas .

Technically achieving this requires that we find it , latest this year or next , and tie it back to Kinsale Head or Corrib and thereby into processing and onward transmission facilities like Inch or Bellinaboy .

If we find it off the coast of Clare there is no pipeline network or processing facility and a tieback would be complex

If we find it off the East Coast there is no processing facility except in Cork and Mayo , it would have to be built . Arklow would be a good bet for technical reasons

Long pipelines of unprocessed gas will always be susceptible to Hydrate Plugs ....which block them . Precisely how the f**k are you supposed to clean these out of a long pipeline that originates at 1000m below the sea on the seabed and runs 200km into a Processing terminal ??????

Here is a picture of Hydrate Plugging for the slower learners amongst us and a description of this key problem !





Had Corrib been 50 km further out and a few 100m's deeper then the risk of Hydrate Plugging may have been such that it was not developed at all .

There may be a lot of gas somewhere that is not trivial to pipe ashore from because of depth and hydrate. It may as well not be there at all in that case but it may be developed in 50 or 100 years ...long after the depletion of Corrib and Kinsale .

Long distance tiebacks of unprocessed gas are arecent development , in this decade .

Have a read of this

http://www.epmag.com/archives/features/2907.htm

Openness and Transparancy have nothing much to do with the issue . The complexity of getting deepwater gas a long distance ashore is a serious engineering challenge . The complexity of building a rig out there is huge !!

eamonnm79

Sponge Bob wrote: »

The operator is allowed to charge UK prices becuase MOST of our gas , 90% . now comes from the UK transmission network and even after Corrib goes live and supplements Kinsale it is envisaged that the combination of the two will only produce 70% of our requirements and that this % will fall over time .

In other words we need a second Corrib to become self sufficient and a third to export .

If we do not get a second Corrib onstream ....and we can only technically achieve this quickly off Mayo or off Cork .....then we shall be back importing the majority of our gas from the UK by 2013 or 2014 . We will only get a few years where we produce teh majority of our own gas .

Technically achieving this requires that we find it , latest this year or next , and tie it back to Kinsale Head or Corrib and thereby into processing and onward transmission facilities like Inch or Bellinaboy .

If we find it off the coast of Clare there is no pipeline network or processing facility and a tieback would be complex

If we find it off the East Coast there is no processing facility except in Cork and Mayo , it would have to be built . Arklow would be a good bet for technical reasons

Long pipelines of unprocessed gas will always be susceptible to Hydrate Plugs ....which block them . Precisely how the f**k are you supposed to clean these out of a long pipeline that originates at 1000m below the sea on the seabed and runs 200km into a Processing terminal ??????

Here is a picture of Hydrate Plugging for the slower learners amongst us and a description of this key problem !





Had Corrib been 50 km further out and a few 100m's deeper then the risk of Hydrate Plugging may have been such that it was not developed at all .

There may be a lot of gas somewhere that is not trivial to pipe ashore from because of depth and hydrate. It may as well not be there at all in that case but it may be developed in 50 or 100 years ...long after the depletion of Corrib and Kinsale .

Long distance tiebacks of unprocessed gas are arecent development , in this decade .

Have a read of this

http://www.epmag.com/archives/features/2907.htm

Openness and Transparancy have nothing much to do with the issue . The complexity of getting deepwater gas a long distance ashore is a serious engineering challenge . The complexity of building a rig out there is huge !!

Genuinely thanks for all the info on gas drilling technicalities and difficulties, very interesting, however this does not answer my largely political and economic questions.
I also dont understand why you seem to loose the rag a little when talking about hydrate plugs I dont think anyone has siad anything about hydrate plugs till you mentioned them?

During the 5 year window that we are producing 70% of our own gas why can we not charge less for our gas than the wholesale uk price?
There is probobly a reason but I just dont know it.

Until you or anyone can start answering some basic economic political questions with regards to this then Openness and transperancey have everything to do with the issue.
This is ireland, the government is constantly bending over backwards to privitise profits in the public domain and socialise loses in the private domain.
Asking questions about the legitimacy of this project is totally in the public interest.

Sponge Bob

eamonnm79 wrote: »

During the 5 year window that we are producing 70% of our own gas why can we not charge less for our gas than the wholesale uk price?

There is probobly a reason but I just dont know it.

Price fixing and distortion, Irish gas unfairly competes with UK gas because of price controls in that case.

The only way to get it cheaper is to find loads of it, pipe it in and flood the system with it

UK gas prices have actually gone below £0 when their system was flooded .

http://business.timesonline.co.uk/tol/business/industry_sectors/natural_resources/article659480.ece

For us to do that we need to produce more than we can (use+export) , that requires production over demand and over the capacity of interconnectors out of the country , that then floods the system and prices plunge .

Then we need to do that sustainably which is the difficult bit , one way to reduce maintenance is to simply stop producing and mothball plant.

Where are we gonna find loads and process loads and flood the system, anybody know ????

TheInquisitor

Put this is ye're pipe and smoke it! We are possibly charging too much tax on our oil

Assertions that Ireland is ‘giving away’ its oil and gas resources ignore some very basic facts, writes FERGUS CAHILL .

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/opinion/2009/0626/1224249574920.html

beggars_bush

the State of Texas has an 8% levy on sales of oil (could be higher/lower)

has done since the 1960's, their is a few trillion sitting in a bank account available to build stuff

every penny of it put into buildings/infrastructure in the state. reason why they have the most unbelievable universities in the world. see Texas A&M, Univ of Texas

Scofflaw

marabhfuil wrote: »

Whose talking bout Cark ye simpleton

There's a rule about being rude to other posters. You'll find it in the forum charter - persistent breaches of which will get you banned. I suggest, therefore, that you read it.

moderately,
Scofflaw

craichoe

eamonnm79 wrote: »

Genuinely thanks for all the info on gas drilling technicalities and difficulties, very interesting, however this does not answer my largely political and economic questions.
I also dont understand why you seem to loose the rag a little when talking about hydrate plugs I dont think anyone has siad anything about hydrate plugs till you mentioned them?

During the 5 year window that we are producing 70% of our own gas why can we not charge less for our gas than the wholesale uk price?
There is probobly a reason but I just dont know it.

Until you or anyone can start answering some basic economic political questions with regards to this then Openness and transperancey have everything to do with the issue.
This is ireland, the government is constantly bending over backwards to privitise profits in the public domain and socialise loses in the private domain.
Asking questions about the legitimacy of this project is totally in the public interest.

Not that Simple, Ireland doesn't have any Gas Storage Facilties and neither does the UK for that Matter, any gas stored by the big UK companies is in the Netherlands and West Germany. A huge one being Nuttermoor. Hence the price of wholesale gas in Ireland is extremely variable.

Companies like Royal Dutch Shell invest hundreds of millions of euro searching for oil and gas and its not something as simple as drilling till you hit oil. There is billions invested in backend infrastructure for tooling, deep core drilling as an example analysis requires huge amounts of technical resources.

If the Irish Government turned around and said "Tough, that gas is ours now" Shell would take Ireland to the European Court and Ireland would lose hands down.

So no, the natural resources off the coast of Ireland are not free, it would require billions of Euro of investment and then you also have that little problem of being an EU Member states, which Norway doesn't have as its only in the EC.

mountainyman

We shouldn't nationalise now anyway! Wait until there have been some more finds off the coast of Ireland and then rip up our agreements with the oil companies.
The corrupt nature of the initial deal (if it was corrupt) means that we have a carte blanche to revoke and revise it. The ECJ won't back shell because the deal appears too corrupt.

But why do this now? Let Shell build the pipeline and find more oil and THEN change the rules.

Hasschu

I take umbrage at the mention of the words "corruption", "bribery", "nepotism", "cronyism". All those words are for use by angular saxons, we Irish are a little more rounded with more savoir faire. For example corruption and bribery are crude bald faced depictions used by foreigners. In Ireland we use words like "campaign contributions" , "for the good cause" a totally different concept and much more civilized. Nepotism and Cronyism in a small country where we are all related and everybody knows everybody it is simply not possible to avoid N and C as it would be in the large anonymous cities of the world. Just imagining a world where you would do business with or give a job to someone you did not know or were not related to is something that the Irish mind is not capable of comprehending. All these concepts that foreigners find so disturbing are deeply embedded in the Irish culture and do not just appear to be normal behaviour they are 100% normal Irish traits. So could we please stop casting aspersions on the oil exploration industry and our beloved politicians, they are in office because we voted them in and we cannot be wrong. Or can we, no that would be an impossibility.

Soil Mechanic

Hasschu wrote: »

I take umbrage at the mention of the words "corruption", "bribery", "nepotism", "cronyism". All those words are for use by angular saxons, we Irish are a little more rounded with more savoir faire. For example corruption and bribery are crude bald faced depictions used by foreigners. In Ireland we use words like "campaign contributions" , "for the good cause" a totally different concept and much more civilized. Nepotism and Cronyism in a small country where we are all related and everybody knows everybody it is simply not possible to avoid N and C as it would be in the large anonymous cities of the world. Just imagining a world where you would do business with or give a job to someone you did not know or were not related to is something that the Irish mind is not capable of comprehending. All these concepts that foreigners find so disturbing are deeply embedded in the Irish culture and do not just appear to be normal behaviour they are 100% normal Irish traits. So could we please stop casting aspersions on the oil exploration industry and our beloved politicians, they are in office because we voted them in and we cannot be wrong. Or can we, no that would be an impossibility.

Surely your not being in any way shape or form sarcastic there Hasschu?;)
No your right, perish the thought............:P
LoL

The unfortunate thing though is that given the 'quality' of people who have achieved High Office in this country over the last quarter of a Century
(The aforementioned Ray Burke, Mr. Corruption...errr Mr. Haughey; Mr. "Ach shure me mates often have an £8,000 quid whip round fur' me shure, as you do" Ahern; etc. et al)
could you blame foreigners for forming a stereotypical paddywhackery 'image' of the Irish national character being endemcially ethically corrupt?
:mad:

Now whilst tis' true we are not exactly akin to the the 'African Custom Official' model, however who knows what went on behnd closed doors regarding this issue...........


On that subject, better surely -as has been already stated- to out source all the development cost to an outside contractor...
...............and all the risk.

IF ( and it is a big if...) more viable reserves -in both Economic AND Engineering terms- are discovered in the future, the option is always there to develop the critical mass for a State body to carry out the endevour.
However, currently given both the low rate of return & the technical complexity, why burden the State -even if the current financial climate was not what it is- with the difficulty...
.....and perhaps most importantly, the LIABILITY (the great unsaid...)


Also, if I may run the risk of derailing the thread (sorry Mods), this issue is not just about Irelands hydrocarbon resources.
As has been already stated the engineering challenges of creating permanent installations off the Atlantic seaboard are considerable, although far from insurmountable or unique (anyone who has ever spent time in the North Sea as a "Rig rat" or otherwise will testify to such.).

Irelands energy security needs could already be met with (albeit dramatic)investment in renewable sources purpose built for our Western deepwater offshore margins.
Is it really so outlandish to suggest that a network of electrical transmission lines can be laid to service 'clusters' of wave energy & wind turbine (floating or fixed) installations a la
http://www.oceanenergy.ie/markets/irish.html
The range of technology alone is baffling!
http://www.wavec.org/index.php/17/technologies/
http://www.inhabitat.com/2007/07/02/floating-wind-turbines-in-the-north-sea/
http://web.mit.edu/erc/spotlights/wind-all.html

However..............
the diffculty is in creating the Service infrastructure needed to enable this technology to
i) be researched & developed,
ii) be constructed & installed,
iii) operated, serviced, maintained & if nessecary -almost inevitable given the environment- periodically replaced.

N.B. the Offshore innovation in the North Sea & elsewhere is undeniably driven & funded in large part by the Hydrocarbon extractive industry.
Why?

Well because the investment in services for hydrocarbon extraction is 'dual purpose' if you will i.e. it is almost identical to that needed for the creation of offshore renewable technology.
e.g. service boats; rotary wing flight provision; onshore workshop facilities; Harbour berth space; etc.
The list of "unseens" goes on.....
Such 'spin off' investment cannot simply be created overnight!

Ireland Plc CANNOT create this by itself, and fundamentally it is the only sustainable way of the future for this country.
(Just a personal opinion)

The encouragement of multinational offshore operators is only to be encouraged - the short-medium term "loss" [sic] of Hydrocarbon revenue can if prudently planned by offset by the long term benefit in deepwater electrical generation technology AND the possibility of the discovery of more viable hydrocarbon reserves.

In other words Ireland can benefit from a a short-medium term oil/gas 'carrot', to create the development in infrastucture that -even if the reserves were NOT realised, can be used to develop offshore renewables
e.g. if the onshore investment is not used for hydrocrbons, will it simply be abandoned when a potenially profitable renewable market already exists?


Just 2c

What is at stake is much more than a small reserve at Corrib......

joseph brand

wylo wrote: »

Can someone please put up a reputable link which contains info on the amount the corrib gas field is worth??

Seriously , its very frustrating the way people give off their own personal quotes with nothing to back it up.

Even recently, I was arguing with someone in work about it, with absolutely no research he told me that there was enough gas there that no one in this country would have to work again. It was the most ridiculous thing Id ever heard, and naturally hed nothing to back it up. But heres the problem , neither did I.
I want to settle that one once and for all.

The Corrib field is worth its weight in gas. Which is around 21 million tonnes, or converted into euros is 14 billion euros, which, when converted into fahrenheit is 31 million deg F.

Hope this helps clarify. I hate when posters just throw silly figures around with no sources. :rolleyes:

puffdragon

Anyone copped on yet ,jebus this is old news! and part of the reason I voted no to lisbon,meetings ,discussions,committies, the whole nine yards ,they have been going on for years ,the potential of our offshore oil/gas, and now our tidal/wind energy potential is why we shouldn't be running around on the coattails of europe "we're sitting on a goldmine"and now thers a new super boat(the RV Keary) doing a geographical mapping of the seabed around ireland probably to pinpoint the target areas for the exploration and eventual exploitation of these resourses, and guess what the yessers have just signed the whole f---ing thing over to europe! I'd laugh if ----aw whats the point?

http://infomarupdates.blogspot.com/

http://www.infomar.ie/surveying/Bays/Donegalv1.php

Far from helping us out and us thinking that we owe Europe for our very existence there could be an underlying agenda to reap our natural resources for the benefit of Europe to the cost of Ireland, If these results are accurate then Ireland holds the highest potential for "green energies" in Europe and if properly harnessed and managed our future wasn't as bleak as we were led to believe. Food for thought!!



Address by European Commissioner for Fisheries and Maritime Affairs Joe Borg
to the Irish Maritime Policy Conference
Dublin, 6 March 2007
This could be worth a couple of phonecalls

• By laying a path to competitiveness and new opportunities, you are supporting research into the natural sciences, engineering and commerce, as well as applied research initiatives in the marine food industries, offshore oil and gas, shipping and transport.

Co-operative efforts based on cutting-edge knowledge, entrepreneurship, innovation and stakeholder participation can promote the introduction of new technology to ensure environmental sustainability in shipping, ship-building and offshore energy, creating both business and export opportunities. This awareness is important since, in the highly competitive environment of the global economy, the EU's leading position in the world's maritime sector cannot be taken for granted. Challenges from economies on the other side of the world and from the constant shifts that technology brings, demand an integrated policy response at EU level to retain Europe's competitive edge.

Given the Commission's central aim to ensure coherence in maritime policy, I have been impressed by the range and stature of the supervisory arrangements you have put in place for your programme. I highly commend your efforts to bring together government departments, state agencies for energy, environment and education, industry representatives and other stakeholders. I believe you have found the recipe for success.

It is therefore no wonder that you confidently predict hundreds of jobs and hundreds of millions of euros in sales for ocean energy systems over the coming decade.

FP7 is central to the Lisbon Strategy's goal of building a Europe of knowledge. The principle is to stimulate, organise and exploit all forms of co-operation in research, including the common development of European infrastructures.

It is entirely appropriate that Ireland should have been the host for the agreement of the Galway Declaration, with its emphasis on collective work among the marine scientific community on the role of the oceans vis a vis life on Earth. Above all, it spells out the contribution that maritime industries can make to the Lisbon Agenda of growth and jobs - and puts equal emphasis on economic achievement and harmony with the environment.

http://www.marine.ie/home/aboutus/newsroom/pressreleases/StakeholdersGathertoDiscussaFutureMaritimePolicyforIreland.htm

http://ec.europa.eu/ireland/press_office/speeches-press_releases/borgspeechtomaritimeconf_en.htm





http://www.marine.ie/home/aboutus/newsroom/pressreleases/INFOMARMappingIrelandUnderwater.htm