Scratch on another Car

The Volt

Sorry if this is the wrong place.

I'm currently a learner driver and yesterday I was involved in a minor incident on a narrow country road. I was facing a car and ha it was going to be difficult to squeeze both by. There was already a car behind me so I could not reverse back up, the woman driving on the other side of the road came to a complete stop, signalling me to continue. I was almost over in the ditch and could not have possibly gone over any further, I was almost through when I heard a screech.

So I pulled up and there was a scratch on her car to the paintwork (see attached)

This morning the woman rang me and has told me that it will cost about 800 to
a. fix and
b. hire out a car for the time it's in the garage.

She's ready to go through insurance if I don't comply but I need some outside opinions on this one, I feel i'm being hard done by in a way here but I dont want to see my premium sky rocket.

aoibhebree

Think you may have attached the wrong image there

The Volt

Whoops, yep. Should be ok now

smelltheglove

I do think that may be a bit overpriced. If I was you I would try and ask her would it be ok for you to arrange someone to fix it, maybe you may know someone in the business. I know someone who would do this for half the cost I reckon.

Otherwise you may have no choice but to go through the insurance. Do you have nocalims bonus protection?

Boggles

Voltwad wrote: »

She's ready to go through insurance if I don't comply but I need some outside opinions on this one, I feel i'm being hard done by in a way here but I dont want to see my premium sky rocket.

Do you feel the price is too much?

Or do you feel hard done by because of the circumstance of how the accident happened.?

Cabaal

I'd understand the money to get it fixed but claiming money for hiring a car while hers is in the shop...your feckin kidding me.

If she went through insurance I don't think they'd give her money for the hire car

The Volt

Boggles wrote: »

Do you feel the price is too much?

Or do you feel hard done by because of the circumstance of how the accident happened.?

Both to be honest, I think it was more 50-50 than anything, given that she beckoned me to move on.

I also cant fathom how a scratch can be that much.

darc

So the person who's car got scratched is assuming it is your fault and in addition is looking to make a profit from the situation.

I think a legal eye would see this quite differently.

She directed you to drive forward based on her understanding that you had sufficient room to pass. Unfortunately you didn't have sifficient room and it ended up that she scratched her car.

IMO - this is a 50/50 case. Your car obviously has a small amount of damage as well, so maybe you should send her a claim considering that she directed you to move forward.

Tell her that have got advice on this and that as she directed you, the blame lies with her and that you will be sending her an estimate for damages to your car - might get her to see light!!!


From the photograph, the job requires a small amount of stripping and re-paint. Maximum about €300 in a body shop. - I have one a couple of doors away from my office & will show them the #pic and see what their opinion is.

The Volt

smelltheglove wrote: »

I do think that may be a bit overpriced. If I was you I would try and ask her would it be ok for you to arrange someone to fix it, maybe you may know someone in the business. I know someone who would do this for half the cost I reckon.

Otherwise you may have no choice but to go through the insurance. Do you have nocalims bonus protection?

I don't think so, I was only out for a drive with my friend who has a full licence

Musha

Was there damage done to your car? Was it a 50/50 accident? phone your insurance company and explain, take pictures of the road, car two cars on the road etc. just because you were the learner did you feel pressurized into taking responsiblity? have lost wing mirrors on country roads and have always agreed each to their own as far as fixing the damage. you could always argue that both cars were moving at the time of the accident

Boggles

Voltwad wrote: »

Both to be honest, I think it was more 50-50 than anything, given that she beckoned me to move on.

I also cant fathom how a scratch can be that much.

darc wrote: »

So the person who's car got scratched is assuming it is your fault and in addition is looking to make a profit from the situation.

I think a legal eye would see this quite differently.

She directed you to drive forward based on her understanding that you had sufficient room to pass. Unfortunately you didn't have sifficient room and it ended up that she scratched her car.

IMO - this is a 50/50 case. Your car obviously has a small amount of damage as well, so maybe you should send her a claim considering that she directed you to move forward.

Tell her that have got advice on this and that as she directed you, the blame lies with her and that you will be sending her an estimate for damages to your car - might get her to see light!!!


From the photograph, the job requires a small amount of stripping and re-paint. Maximum about €300 in a body shop. - I have one a couple of doors away from my office & will show them the #pic and see what their opinion is.

Well technically you hit her, so you are to blame. Doesn't really matter if she beckoned you. I know your learning, but if you are not sure always get out to assess the situation better.

As for the price, you are more than entitiled to ask her to get a couple of qoutes.

Even get a couple yourself.

As for the car hire, Meh, that sort of crack is creeping in here, unless the car is vital for her work, the job shouldn't take more than 24 hours, so car hire would be no more than 40-50 euro.

The Volt

darc wrote: »

So the person who's car got scratched is assuming it is your fault and in addition is looking to make a profit from the situation.

I think a legal eye would see this quite differently.

She directed you to drive forward based on her understanding that you had sufficient room to pass. Unfortunately you didn't have sifficient room and it ended up that she scratched her car.

IMO - this is a 50/50 case. Your car obviously has a small amount of damage as well, so maybe you should send her a claim considering that she directed you to move forward.

Tell her that have got advice on this and that as she directed you, the blame lies with her and that you will be sending her an estimate for damages to your car - might get her to see light!!!


From the photograph, the job requires a small amount of stripping and re-paint. Maximum about €300 in a body shop. - I have one a couple of doors away from my office & will show them the #pic and see what their opinion is.

I'd have to agree with you there, my car is actually worse off. One problem though is I haven't got her details, in the heat of the moment my friend and I were in a bit of shock and I only barely remembered to take a picture. At the time I was being pressured into believing I was fault but on reflection I'd pretty much agree with what you said there.

smelltheglove

I have to agree here that I would see it as 50/50 but there are a lot of people who wouldnt and it would be a hard case to rpove.

You can try and come to an agreement and I would reommend speaking to someone about it be a gard or a solicitor although unless you have someone other than your friend as a witness they may see it that you took responsibility at the scene and therefor it is your fault.

It may be a lesson hard learnt but always if in doubt call the gards to deal with the matter even if it is only tiny.

Definitely also ask can you arrange repairs as that price is WAY too much.

Cabaal

darc wrote: »

She directed you to drive forward based on her understanding that you had sufficient room to pass. Unfortunately you didn't have sifficient room and it ended up that she scratched her car.

IMO - this is a 50/50 case. Your car obviously has a small amount of damage as well, so maybe you should send her a claim considering that she directed you to move forward.

True,
However as a motorists you are supposed to drive with due care and attention and are not supposed to depend on a third party to tell you the way is clear (unless its a Gardai), you are supposed to check for yourself.

So even though she waived to say the way was clear the OP should have checked him/her self to confirm before proceeding, failing to do so means its his/her fault.

The Volt

smelltheglove wrote: »

I have to agree here that I would see it as 50/50 but there are a lot of people who wouldnt and it would be a hard case to rpove.

You can try and come to an agreement and I would reommend speaking to someone about it be a gard or a solicitor although unless you have someone other than your friend as a witness they may see it that you took responsibility at the scene and therefor it is your fault.

It may be a lesson hard learnt but always if in doubt call the gards to deal with the matter even if it is only tiny.

Definitely also ask can you arrange repairs as that price is WAY too much.

She's very adamant that she wants to get it fixed where she bought the car. Don't know if I'm allowed name and shame the place or not.

Hagar

I don't see 50/50 anywhere. The op hit a stationary vehicle.

The Volt

Hagar wrote: »

I don't see 50/50 anywhere. The op hit a stationary vehicle.

Fair enough, have you an opinion on the price of repairs?

smelltheglove

I would be more likely to go to them and ask them for the price myself and also call your insurance company and see what they say about this, I dont think even the insurance company would pay over the odds for the repair.

Boggles

Voltwad wrote: »

Fair enough, have you an opinion on the price of repairs?

Maybe start a thread on the motor forum, I'm sure a couple of painters frequent the place.

Meanwhile armed with your photo and model of the car you should head yourself to a few places and get some qoutes.

Did you get a qoute for your car?

The Volt

Boggles wrote: »

Maybe start a thread on the motor forum, I'm sure a couple of painters frequent the place.

Meanwhile armed with your photo and model of the car you should head yourself to a few places and get some qoutes.

Good idea, don't suppose a mod would move this to the motors forum?

I haven't gotten a quote yet as it only happened yesterday evening. This madam obviously wants it over and done with quickly

Hagar

Voltwad wrote: »

Fair enough, have you an opinion on the price of repairs?

Sorry I didn't mean to sound heartless but that is exactly why the other driver stopped. She knew she couldn't get by so she stopped and put the ball in your court. It was your decision to drive forward after she beckoned you on. You chose to follow her instructions but you were under no obligation to do so. Sometimes you have to learn by experience. At least nobody was hurt.

Sorry I can't give any ideas as to repair costs, I live in France and they would be way different.

aoibhebree

I'd agree that it would be very hard to pin any responsibility on her - you're never supposed to depend on other drivers' signals (and she shouldn't have given you any!)

But as far as I know you should be able to have a say in where the repairs are done? I mean as long as it's done to her satisfaction it shouldn't matter who does it.

darc

Hagar wrote: »

I don't see 50/50 anywhere. The op hit a stationary vehicle.

I sort of know that - but it could be used as a bargaining tool to get the other driver to accept a small part of the blame.

The bad news is I showed it (the picture) to a bodyshop in Kildare and they said about €750 would be a reasonable price. Add in car hire and you're at €800 - They'd do it for about €650 as they know me, but they could also show how it would cost €1000.

Problem is it affects 2 parts of the car, so 2 pieces need to be stripped & repainted, both of which take about 4 - 5 hours.

I'd still try & argue and then make offer of €400 and possibly agree at €500. If she won't agree, then I'd go insurance route as it will be considered a minor claim and may not affect any no claims bonus.

Musha

Accepting responsiblity at the scene does not constitute an admission of liability, as it can be done under duress by the other party or you may be in a state of shock and would not be admissible in court by any insurers as it would set an unattainable standard of he said/she said, when it came to settle claims. Again speak to your insurance company for advise as they will know from experience acceptable costs for settling

biko

Let the insurance company deal with it, they'll make sure it's fixed at a low cost.
I don't think it'll affect your premium much, was a scratch, not a collision.

Boggles

Was the person you were with a fully licensed driver for at least 2 years?

Don't think the insurance hold that against you yet though.

Certainly get the insurance company involved, ask them about your claims though.

aoibhebree

I presume that, even if you ask your insurance company for advice on the matter, you won't be obliged to make the claim through them and can still pay it yourself if you want to? And it wouldn't affect any no claims bonus or premium charges?

Drummerboy08

That estimate is well over-priced IMO. From what i can see, its only a transfer of paint. There are no dents visable from that photo.

I'd imagine that a rub of a cloth would remove most of the paint transfered from your vehicle, and any scratches left will buff out with a coat of compound and polish.

It sounds very excessive. I'd insist on a different estimate from a garage of your choice. As far as i'm aware, you are entitled to do that.

BTW, at the most, that job should only take 2 days to fix, costing €100 Inc Vat for a hire car.

evogirl

if the other car wasnt moving then it was your fault im sorry to say.

Boggles

Drummerboy08 wrote: »

That estimate is well over-priced IMO. From what i can see, its only a transfer of paint. There are no dents visable from that photo.

I'd imagine that a rub of a cloth would remove most of the paint transfered from your vehicle, and any scratches left will buff out with a coat of compound and polish.

It sounds very excessive. I'd insist on a different estimate from a garage of your choice. As far as i'm aware, you are entitled to do that.

BTW, at the most, that job should only take 2 days to fix, costing €100 Inc Vat for a hire car.

From the picture it looks like the paint is completely gone in a couple of large areas, the lady is entitled to have her car restored pefectly.

A rub of cloth, a bit of buffing won't do that I'm afraid.

dirtynosebeps

i wouldn't have a clue about the cost of a repair job but i would like to say i'm sorry to hear about your vender bender O.P. the main thing is the only thing injured here was your pride and nothing else.( i hope). hagar is correct in that you hit a staionary vehicle. one thing i was taught when learing to drive was this " if in doubt let it out". the driver of the other car basically let you make the mistake. the other thing is it's because of these type of accidents that we pay insurance for. O.P. was the car you were driving insured by you or are you a named driver, also check to see if the policy has a protected N.C.D. i have it on mine where the N.C.D. is covered should an accident arise.
at some stage most of us are going to have a bang or two, the thing here is to learn from the mistakes, this one being next time let the other person make to next move.

foggy_lad

aoibhebree wrote: »

I presume that, even if you ask your insurance company for advice on the matter, you won't be obliged to make the claim through them and can still pay it yourself if you want to? And it wouldn't affect any no claims bonus or premium charges?

telling the insurance company is not optional in most cases as not notifying them of this or any accident will void your policy,

and regardless of whether or not either party makes a claim your premium will most likely be affected as your risk assessment has changed as has the other drivers,

many companies decide that being involved in an accident even when not your fault is still used when assessing premiums!

jor el

Boggles wrote: »

From the picture it looks like the paint is completely gone in a couple of large areas, the lady is entitled to have her car restored pefectly.

A rub of cloth, a bit of buffing won't do that I'm afraid.

True, and the standard approach for a main dealer faced with this would be to replace the back wing and bumper (both are damaged) then spray to match the rest of the body colour. This is going to be pricey, and 700-800 sounds alright.

You could try and get it done on the cheap, but you'll need her to accept it. Ring your insurance and get advice, you don't have to claim, and it won't effect your rates. It might be worth the claim if there's much damage to your car, and if the effect isn't too great on your premium. If you're a new driver, with no no-claims bonus, you have nothing to lose.

The Volt

dirtynosebeps wrote: »

i wouldn't have a clue about the cost of a repair job but i would like to say i'm sorry to hear about your vender bender O.P. the main thing is the only thing injured here was your pride and nothing else.( i hope). hagar is correct in that you hit a staionary vehicle. one thing i was taught when learing to drive was this " if in doubt let it out". the driver of the other car basically let you make the mistake. the other thing is it's because of these type of accidents that we pay insurance for. O.P. was the car you were driving insured by you or are you a named driver, also check to see if the policy has a protected N.C.D. i have it on mine where the N.C.D. is covered should an accident arise.
at some stage most of us are going to have a bang or two, the thing here is to learn from the mistakes, this one being next time let the other person make to next move.

Bender is a severe overstatement to tell the truth, naturally as the learner driver I'm going to be a bit edgier which is why on reflection I'm irritated that she didn't back upand played my inexperience. The car is insured by me yes

The Volt

jor el wrote: »

True, and the standard approach for a main dealer faced with this would be to replace the back wing and bumper (both are damaged) then spray to match the rest of the body colour. This is going to be pricey, and 700-800 sounds alright.

You could try and get it done on the cheap, but you'll need her to accept it. Ring your insurance and get advice, you don't have to claim, and it won't effect your rates. It might be worth the claim if there's much damage to your car, and if the effect isn't too great on your premium. If you're a new driver, with no no-claims bonus, you have nothing to lose.

As far as I'm aware of there is a no claims bonus at stake

mickos

I've known of accidents like this to happen before on narrow country roads where the gaurds were called and told bith parties to take care of their own damages as neither party could be totally responsible given the width of the road. Did you admit liability? I'd agree to pay maybe half that €800. Asking for a hire care is a bit rich.

The Volt

Initially I responded to her questions with similar questions. She assumed immediately that it was my fault (which seems to be the general consensus here) and I didn't know what to do or say at the time. There was a witness (The man in the car behind me) who seemed impartial to the incident but he didn't really converse with me or my friend, just the woman. He tried ringing Blessington Garda Station but typically they didnt answer their phone.

dudara

Moved to Motors

dudara

Gary ITR

Voltwad wrote: »

Bender is a severe overstatement to tell the truth, naturally as the learner driver I'm going to be a bit edgier which is why on reflection I'm irritated that she didn't back upand played my inexperience. The car is insured by me yes

You might not want to hear this but I think in the eye of the insurance company you are at fault here.

You hit the other driver while she was stationary. If there wasn't enough room to pass then you shouldn't have tried to pass. Instead you pushed on and then hit the stationary vehicle.

If you can afford it you should try and pay the claim from your own pocket. And wrt the rental car, if somebody crashed into me I wold certainly be demanding a rental for the period my car is off the road

L-M

jor el wrote: »

True, and the standard approach for a main dealer faced with this would be to replace the back wing and bumper (both are damaged) then spray to match the rest of the body colour. This is going to be pricey, and 700-800 sounds alright.

Replacing the back bumper, maybe. Unless there is major damage or dents in it, I can't see them replacing the back bumper. Also there is no way they will cut out and weld back in the quarter panel for such a small scratch. If it was dented in, then fair enough.

I'd imagine the bulk of the cost is the spraying of the quarter panel, (would involve sanding and preparing all of the back panel, up load over the doors where it meets the front wing, as it's all one panel).



In general, a back bumper shouldn't cost more than 300-350 to be fixed, the quarter panel maybe 400 and then two days rental of a car, maybe €50 a day?

TBH, 800 doesn't sound too bad to me at all, and if it's a case that you are only learning to drive, the last thing you want is to bump up your insurance premiums, so if possible try and pay it yourself.

The Volt

I really think paying for a new bumper is completely unnecessary

Gary ITR

Voltwad wrote: »

I really think paying for a new bumper is completely unnecessary

Something to bear in mind is that this lady is entitled to have her car back to the exact same standard it was before this incident.

If the bumper is cracked or disfigured then the only way to fix it is replacement.

I'm not being hard on you here just playing Devils advocate

L-M

Onkle wrote: »

Something to bear in mind is that this lady is entitled to have her back to the exact same standard it was before this incident.

If the bumper is cracked or disfigured then the only way to fix it is replacement.

I'm not being hard on you here just playing Devils advocate

+1

If it was my car, I wouldn't accept anything less. Why should she have to accept a repaired bumper?

eyesofvenus

I have to wonder though would she be as understanding if shoe was on the other foot?? It's a typical thing here in Ireland, blame game as always

delly

OP, in relation to your two questions.

The first being responsibility and i'm afraid I think you are 100% to blame. If the other car was moving at all, then you could claim 50/50, but as it was stationary then the blame is on you as you controlled the car that caused the accident.

The second being the cost of damage, and in relation to €800 I think you've had a lucky break with the cost. If you went down the road of replacement bumper etc., and going thru' insurance, then your talking serious money. I know there is no no claims bonus, but this accident will follow you for the next 5 years if you do make a claim on your insurance and that will cost you more in the long run.

Gary ITR

eyesofvenus wrote: »

I have to wonder though would she be as understanding if shoe was on the other foot?? It's a typical thing here in Ireland, blame game as always

I know I'd be pi55ed having to fork out for a new bumper but it's something I would just have to do.
I know if somebody hit my car I'd want it back exactly the way it was before the crash

eyesofvenus

Onkle wrote: »

I know I'd be pi55ed having to fork out for a new bumper but it's something I would just have to do.
I know if somebody hit my car I'd want it back exactly the way it was before the crash

Isn't crash a bit harsh? lol

delly

eyesofvenus wrote: »

Isn't crash a bit harsh? lol

Well it certainly aint no 'scratch'!

eyesofvenus

delly wrote: »

Well it certainly aint no 'scratch'!

True, it's a shame though that some rare courtesy on an Irish road has gone against the OP

The Volt

A friend got adivce of a panel beater who he worked with, said that there is no way in hell that an insurance company would pay that much for what happened. so shes taking advantage of the fact that i dont want to go through insurance.

She wants to get it fixed where she bought the car which is naturally going to cost more, this place would do it for 300

When she rang me with the quote this morning I asked for her mobile number so I could get my Dad to ring her but twice she refused. I'm at the stage now where I'm not happy with her attitude and I'm considering going through insurance and the cops.

Muckie

Sounds like she was hoping to get "a free lunch" off you.

Best to go down the legal route now. Dont make any more effort to reach

her, let the insurance companys deal with it, some people live for "nice

accidents" so they can make a few bob off other people.