No longer able to thank Feedback posts?

K-9

OK, I think the reasons for keeping it have been well laid out.

Hope it wasn't because of 1/2 threads recently as somebody pointed out, as I think everybody knew it was going to be abused at some stage. Don't think a few eejits should ruin it for the many who like the feature because it ads feedback in a constructive way.

eagle eye

If you are talking about the recent poker feedback thread as an example of it not working then I'd have to disagree.

There were a lot of unhappy members of that community who voiced their concerns, the amount of thanks they got was feedback in itself.

Dudess

Boston wrote: »

How is it different? I post the view that user A is a cluetrain fuk tard. User B expresses similar view by posting. In what way isn't that the same bullying/ganging up as ascribed above?

I didn't realise you were referring specifically to the thanks feature still, I thought you were referring to fanboi-ism etc in general (as per Des's post). The thanks feature itself: I think it has its drawbacks but the positives outweigh them.

I note that you can't provide a link but you're definitely certain its a problem which exists. Mayhap s you will discover that your opinion of what constitutes an a bullying post isn't what others agree with. Not to harp on about the Des and ES incident but there you had a large number of well established users criticising another user on Des's behalf. Is that not bullying/ganging up?

Be careful what you conclude to be obviously one thing, it may very well be another....

The ganging up, sycophancy etc I referred to earlier - oh it very much looks that way at times (the poker thread in particular). I wouldn't say it if I didn't think it was true, and plenty are of the same view as me - it's certainly not just me, but it's also an opinion I'm entitled to have. I won't provide specific links as that means referring to specific people, which then gets you accused of orchestrating a "witch hunt".

therecklessone

eagle eye wrote: »

If you are talking about the recent poker feedback thread as an example of it not working then I'd have to disagree.

There were a lot of unhappy members of that community who voiced their concerns, the amount of thanks they got was feedback in itself.

Conversely, when people with a different viewpoint in that debate thanked posts that they agreed with they were accused of a mod circle jerk.

WhiteWashMan

Earthhorse wrote: »

What I want is for people to stop making rash decisions, even trivial ones. It seems this decision was made off the back of one incident, one thread, rather than waiting for things to die down and allowing Thanks to continue to be used in the largely healthy way it has in here to date.
.

There have been rash decisions on behalf of the admins recently, and one thing we are trying to do is avoid that.
Removing the Thanks button isnt a rash decision.
It may have been brought to the fore recently, but it has been discussed to death.

The reason that people give thanks is many and varied, and reasons given have ranged from 'because it made me laugh even though I didnt agree with it' to 'I give becuase I am being ironic'.

Neither of which are supportive as far as I can see. I think if people want to add support, there are better ways to do it than the Thanks button.

But again, its a trial run to see how it goes.

Alan Rouge wrote: »

Ye could've asked for feedback in the Feedback forum

Thats a good point, but sometimes we do need to act autonously from the users, but I take your point.

Boston wrote: »

Boards.ie survived without lots of things it currently has, however that doesn't mean we should get rid of them. The merits of the Thanking systems is what's being debated. It has its pluses and negatives and quiet a few people appear to believe the positives out weighted the negatives.

At the moment I'm more tempted to chime and post on issues as I can't show my support by thanking. Perhaps the admins see this as a positive.

Well, lets wait and see how it goes.

eagle eye

therecklessone wrote: »

Conversely, when people with a different viewpoint in that debate thanked posts that they agreed with they were accused of a mod circle jerk.

Hardly relevant to this discussion, that happens regularly in feedback threads.

therecklessone

eagle eye wrote: »

Hardly relevant to this discussion, that happens regularly in feedback threads.

Entirely relevant I'd have thought, is using the thanks button legitimate feedback or not? Or is that dependant on who's making the argument?

Seems like a case of two legs bad, four legs good to me.

WhiteWashMan

therecklessone wrote: »

Seems like a case of two legs bad, four legs good to me.

Oooh, cultural reference.

Can I be Snowball?

ntlbell

BuffyBot wrote: »

boards.ie survived (entirely, not on a forum by forum basis) without a "Thanks" feature for the best part of a decade.

I can't imagine how we coped.

humans survived millions of years without internets, what now? all unplug?

what a retarded argument.

:rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:

Boston

Dudess wrote: »

The ganging up, sycophancy etc I referred to earlier - oh it very much looks that way at times (the poker thread in particular). I wouldn't say it if I didn't think it was true, and plenty are of the same view as me - it's certainly not just me, but it's also an opinion I'm entitled to have. I won't provide specific links as that means referring to specific people, which then gets you accused of orchestrating a "witch hunt".

I think you'll find that people will agree that the thank system was abused in that instance but disagree with regards to who was abusing it. One's man's abuse is another man's "passionate argument".

mysterious

Why is this still a dicussion 9 pages later.

How come boards has a severe inability to actually learn words such

Diplomacy
Balance
Solution
Tact
Common sense
Compromise
agreement
BALANCE
clarity


Put a poll up. leave it open for a week, count the votes and then you have a decision. Whoever has the leading majority in who wants the thanks button back, wins. there. rambling 9 pages seems a bit wasteful and again proving how boards is run.

I'd run this site better myself.:rolleyes:

Earthhorse

BuffyBot wrote: »

I don't think it was condescending. I think it was a perfectly valid point.

It was a valid point but you made it in a condescending manner.

BuffyBot wrote: »

I can't imagine how we coped.

I don't know how you thought that would come across but I accept it wasn't your intention.

BuffyBot wrote: »

I had a look back over a few pre-thanks button Feedback threads last night, and to be honest I saw very little quantative difference between then and now. Apart from a little button to click.

Right, then why remove it?

The problem at the core here is, there are just as many logical reasons to *not* have them. The admins looked at those, and decided "there might be a point here" and had the removed from Feedback. So we know some people want them gone off Feedback, and we know some people want them kept. None of this is news, but who do we listen to? Who's viewpoint is *more* valid than the other?

I think you should err on the side of including rather than excluding features where the pros and cons are evenly balanced, particularly where such features are standard across the rest of the site. Also, it is news to me that people want Thanks removed from Feedback. Other than the recent Poker thread I hadn't heard much complaining about it.

WhiteWashMan wrote: »

Removing the Thanks button isnt a rash decision.
It may have been brought to the fore recently, but it has been discussed to death.

If an announcement had been made to that effect it would have been very helpful. I haven't seen it being discussed to death. Perhaps it was in private quarters, but how am I to know that?

The reason that people give thanks is many and varied, and reasons given have ranged from 'because it made me laugh even though I didnt agree with it' to 'I give becuase I am being ironic'.

Neither of which are supportive as far as I can see. I think if people want to add support, there are better ways to do it than the Thanks button.

I've already made counterpoints to this earlier in the thread.

Well, lets wait and see how it goes.

Yeah, that's fine. I was actually going to wait a month before asking for the Thanks button back because I didn't want to resurrect the issues of the last week. If the decision has been a long time coming, that's fair enough, but a little communication to that effect would go a long way.

Boston

mysterious wrote: »

Why is this still a dicussion 9 pages later.

How come boards has a severe inability to actually learn words such

Diplomacy
Balance
Solution
Tact
Common sense
Compromise
agreement
BALANCE
clarity


Put a poll up. leave it open for a week, count the votes and then you have a decision. Whoever has the leading majority in who wants the thanks button back, wins. there. rambling 9 pages seems a bit wasteful and again proving how boards is run.

I'd run this site better myself.:rolleyes:

So instead of debating the issue simply poll peoples ignorance? The Admins have made some points which wouldn't have occurred to me and I hope I've made some which hadn't originally occurred to them. It's the reason we have discussions. A blunt yes or no poll wouldn't accomplish much given that I don't think most of those in favour of keeping feel as strongly as those in favour of removing it.

A poll dosen't incompase Compromise as theres no room for the middle ground, a debate is the essense of clarity as all the arguements are clearly laid out, Balance is achieve by allowing both sides to freely express themselves... I could go on.

javaboy

Glitch?


I thanked that post in Feedback just now.

copacetic

Boston wrote: »

I agree with all the above. I think those who want it gone or perceive it to be solely bully are the minority however keeping it will probably affect them more then removing it will affect the majority who want it kept. Removing thanks isn't going to have a hugely negative affect on my use of boards.ie but keeping it may cause undue "harm" to those who find it objectionable.

So the question I ask is this, are there a significant number of people complaining about thanks system, strongly enough to merit its removal in the face of people who (push come to shove) would keep it? Sometimes when all you receive are complaints rather then positive feedback, it can be easier to think a problem is bigger then it really is.

That at least is definitely true and I think we have a case of it here. As for those that want it gone being a 'minority' I doubt most people on boards have an opinion either way. I'd say people who care either way are a tiny minority of boards users and of those who do hold an opinion it is probably split evenly enough. There are those who contribute to the odd feedback thread with an opinion and don't care for or need thanks and there are those that contribute to nearly every thread who seem to think thanks fulfills them or something. Personally I don't understand it, but I certainly don't think thanks adds anything to either feedback or the helpdesk and shouldn't be available in either.

None of the reasons given above for having it hold much water imo although I'm not saying it is clear cut either. I'd certainly say it is worthwhile trialling feedback without thanks for a decent period of time. Imo it may reduce the noise a bit rather than increase it.

eagle eye

therecklessone wrote: »

Entirely relevant I'd have thought, is using the thanks button legitimate feedback or not? Or is that dependant on who's making the argument?

Seems like a case of two legs bad, four legs good to me.

Lets get this clear, you are saying that people used the thanks button to say that other people using the thanks button were mod circle jerks?

I don't remember that post.

therecklessone

eagle eye wrote: »

Lets get this clear, you are saying that people used the thanks button to say that other people using the thanks button were mod circle jerks?

I don't remember that post.

No, I'm saying that there were complaints levelled at certain users that they were sticking their nose in when they knew nothing about the issue in question, and that other users were backing them up by thanking every post they made. That fed the perception that there was a mod circle jerk as it was referred to, or a clique, or whatever people want to refer to it as.

I think Des summed the sentiment up well in an earlier post on this thread:

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=60765585&postcount=34

Now with thanks removed from feedback the record of thanks on previous posts is removed, so if I was inclined to check back I would find nothing to support my point.

I just think it odd that people saw users thanking posts (in some cases there were multiple posts thanked by the same names) as legitimate feedback while in other cases that same action was seen as some manifestation of the mod clique.

You may not have said that, but others expressed that sentiment.

eagle eye

therecklessone wrote: »

No, I'm saying that there were complaints levelled at certain users that they were sticking their nose in when they knew nothing about the issue in question, and that other users were backing them up by thanking every post they made. That fed the perception that there was a mod circle jerk as it was referred to, or a clique, or whatever people want to refer to it as.

I think Des summed the sentiment up well in an earlier post on this thread:

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=60765585&postcount=34

Now with thanks removed from feedback the record of thanks on previous posts is removed, so if I was inclined to check back I would find nothing to support my point.

I just think it odd that people saw users thanking posts (in some cases there were multiple posts thanked by the same names) as legitimate feedback while in other cases that same action was seen as some manifestation of the mod clique.

You may not have said that, but others expressed that sentiment.

If I have an interest in a thread on feedback I often thank posts that I agree with, support. I'd rather do that than post the same again, or post a +1, I agree type post.

The poker forum one had an awful lot of thanks for a lot of posts but a huge percentage of those posts were from poker forum regulars, maybe even all the thanks. If you want all them to post then you are looking at about a 1500 post thread minimum in circumstances like that where you have to trawl through countless similar posts.

For instance lets say a soccer mod says that the mods are fair in soccer, then eagle eye responds quoting the mod and say he disagrees and that the mods in soccer are nazi police and he gets half the soccer forum thanking him instead of 60 quoting the same post and giving the same answer.

Anybody with a bit of common sense will know when those thanks are genuine support. From Des' post I get the picture that there are a group that spend their time thanking posts here in the feedback area but really if they are regularly at that then the admins will know who they are.

For the ordinary user who doesn't spend time in feedback unless the issue concerns them its a useful tool.

Dudess

Boston wrote: »

I think you'll find that people will agree that the thank system was abused in that instance but disagree with regards to who was abusing it. One's man's abuse is another man's "passionate argument".

Abuse is abuse is abuse. If someone has an opinion and I don't agree with it - even if it downright pisses me off - if they express it without resorting to aggression/abuse, then fair enough.

WhiteWashMan

mysterious wrote: »

Why is this still a dicussion 9 pages later.

How come boards has a severe inability to actually learn words such

Diplomacy
Balance
Solution
Tact
Common sense
Compromise
agreement
BALANCE
clarity


Put a poll up. leave it open for a week, count the votes and then you have a decision. Whoever has the leading majority in who wants the thanks button back, wins. there. rambling 9 pages seems a bit wasteful and again proving how boards is run.

I'd run this site better myself.:rolleyes:

Indeed. Im quite surprised myself that it hasnt disappeared into a black hole of self parody and PCness at this stage.

WhiteWashMan

Dudess wrote: »

Abuse is abuse is abuse. If someone has an opinion and I don't agree with it - even if it downright pisses me off - if they express it without resorting to aggression/abuse, then fair enough.

The thing about a discussion forum is simple.
People give their opinions.

When many people have differing opinions, they post. lots. This thread is a great example.

Giving the same arguments over and over again, does not mean its a compelling point. It simply means that people like repeating themselves.

As for the posts that come in and then say that its a case of this that and the other and mods and admins being useless and not doing this and that or the other, is neither here nor there.
In fact, its simply a deflective tactic because there is nothing more to say.


I really can not find another way to say 'the Thanks button is gone'.


You can debate it as much as you like, and you can suggest that this site is badly run as a result of a missing icon which let you give someone a thumbs up, but for the time being, it has been removed.

Now, I can really dress it down and put it in plain english, but I am pretty sure that then we would have a lot of threads here then complaining that I am abusing something or other equally tedious.


Free speach for the deaf, you say?

tbh

mysterious wrote: »

Why is this still a dicussion 9 pages later.

How come boards has a severe inability to actually learn words such

Diplomacy
Balance
Solution
Tact
Common sense
Compromise
agreement
BALANCE
clarity


Put a poll up. leave it open for a week, count the votes and then you have a decision. Whoever has the leading majority in who wants the thanks button back, wins. there. rambling 9 pages seems a bit wasteful and again proving how boards is run.

I'd run this site better myself.:rolleyes:

http://www.letshost.ie/?gclid=CPDBt6a2nZsCFRCF3godOUwPoA

http://www.vbulletin.com/download.php


Go for it! Nice to see someone actually doing something for themselves instead of just pissing and moaning. Let us know where to sign up, won't you?

Red Sleeping Beauty

WhiteWashMan wrote: »

Free speach for the deaf, you say?

Many deaf people can lip read.

WhiteWashMan

Alan Rouge wrote: »

Many deaf people can lip read.

You cant please all the people all the time.

WhiteWashMan

tbh wrote: »

http://www.letshost.ie/?gclid=CPDBt6a2nZsCFRCF3godOUwPoA

http://www.vbulletin.com/download.php


Go for it! Nice to see someone actually doing something for themselves instead of just pissing and moaning. Let us know where to sign up, won't you?

Damn, if only we had a thanks button!

mysterious

WhiteWashMan wrote: »

Indeed. Im quite surprised myself that it hasnt disappeared into a black hole of self parody and PCness at this stage.

WWM

I love how you always react to my post's:D

Cus you always do, when I have something good to say;)

mysterious

WhiteWashMan wrote: »

Indeed. Im quite surprised myself that it hasnt disappeared into a black hole of self parody and PCness at this stage.

I can't thank your stupidity:p

Dudess

WhiteWashMan wrote: »

The thing about a discussion forum is simple.
People give their opinions.

When many people have differing opinions, they post. lots. This thread is a great example.

Giving the same arguments over and over again, does not mean its a compelling point. It simply means that people like repeating themselves.

As for the posts that come in and then say that its a case of this that and the other and mods and admins being useless and not doing this and that or the other, is neither here nor there.
In fact, its simply a deflective tactic because there is nothing more to say.


I really can not find another way to say 'the Thanks button is gone'.


You can debate it as much as you like, and you can suggest that this site is badly run as a result of a missing icon which let you give someone a thumbs up, but for the time being, it has been removed.

Now, I can really dress it down and put it in plain english, but I am pretty sure that then we would have a lot of threads here then complaining that I am abusing something or other equally tedious.


Free speach for the deaf, you say?

Nope, you've completely misinterpreted me. Perhaps read back over my posts on this thread.

WhiteWashMan

mysterious wrote: »

I can't thank your stupidity:p

Oh Noes!

Dudess wrote: »

Nope, you've completely misinterpreted me. Perhaps read back over my posts on this thread.

Sorry, I quoted the bit about expression of opinion to comment on it, not to comment about what you said specifically.

Krac

I find saying thanks to people who help you out is the right thing to do. It costs nothing OP.