UFC 100 - 11th July 2009

Raze_them_all

So your complaining that Mir used his brain and used the rules to his advantage? Why can't people just accept brock lost without complaining that mir and the ref screwed him. It's not Mir or the refs job to make sure Brock doesn't hit to the back of the head.

Brock is the most exciting guy in the UFC, seeing a man that big sprint around and be as agile as he is just quite simply awe inspiring and out of this world, i've had dreams where I've had UFC fights with him and beat him by grounding and pounding. It's ridiculous, I can't get over the size of the man and his agility. But he can lose this fight if he is not careful - Mir is a tactical genius with submission moves.

dunkamania

Turning your head away from your opponents punches, exposing the back of your head, is a legitamate technique. Brock has no one to blame but himself, the severity of the hit warranted more than just a warning from the ref. If Brock hadnt got so excited, and started laying in the donkey kong punches, he would have won handily.

I dont see how Brock loses this fight unless it goes into the later rounds, but Mir isnt known for his Cardio either.

Below is the link for the UFC preview
http://www.mmascraps.com/2009/06/brock-lesnar-vs-frank-mir-video-ufc-100.html

I still cant watch the bits from Nog vs Mir. Hands down the most painful moments for me as a mma fan

Jason Mc

Ur a sissy

pablohoney87

dunkamania wrote: »

Turning your head away from your opponents punches, exposing the back of your head, is a legitamate technique. Brock has no one to blame but himself, the severity of the hit warranted more than just a warning from the ref.

The point i was gonna make. Nobody ever complains when a fighter is taking knees against the cage and then drops to a knee to be grounded. Its a very intelligent move and shows the fighter really knows how to think ahead while they're fighting.

soretoe

actually you're right I shouldn't be moaning about the mir fight stand up coz Brock hasn't.
its just the reality of fighting within a rules framework - like if you're gased and need a break so you lean on him against the cage untill the bell or whatever - I just hate to see a guy who could clearly win the fight without rules lose within the rules - the whole point of the thing originally was to get as close as possible to finding who would win in a real fight etc..
Paradoxically Crocop stuck a finger in that lads eye probably by mistake and won as a direct result - prob would've won anyway but in reality won as a direct result - so it swings both ways
I say let them stomp heads like in pride - Wandy would love a bit of that
(if not the athletics comm board)

cowzerp

soretoe wrote: »

I just hate to see a guy who could clearly win the fight without rules lose within the rules - the whole point of the thing originally was to get as close as possible to finding who would win in a real fight etc..
Paradoxically Crocop stuck a finger in that lads eye probably by mistake and won as a direct result - prob would've won anyway but in reality won as a direct result - so it swings both ways
I say let them stomp heads like in pride - Wandy would love a bit of that
(if not the athletics comm board)

if they can win within the rules then they could win if there where no rules, the proof is they have the skills to execute there attacks-going back to soccer kicks, head stomps etc would ruin the name of the sport that has just become mainstream, fighting within rules takes more skill anyway, so the more skillfull fighter could use the dirty tactics easier if they where allowed.

soretoe

I don't agree - in this case if the ref had enforced the rules to the T then mirko would not have won at that moment with the finger poke as the ref would've stopped and given the other guy up to 5 min or whatever which could have changed the fight - prob not but could have - and with brock - Mir, yes, legit used the head turn away chicken **** stand up move which played part in Brock hitting the back of his head - the ref in this case enforced the letter of the law and stood them up - if no rules then brock would have continued to dismantle him on the ground with hammer fists etc.. anyway - I dont think there's any point in arguing whether there should be more or less rules as the sport is where it is and the rules are where they're at due to one thing - market forces - the UFC has managed to get into a few states based on the rules they have added since day one - plus a couple more rules to stop fights ending due to excessive blood - such as the elbow down on the head - its just a business and its a sport not real fighting - its close - but you can't argue with the mirko/brock examples. Plus then there's the whole 'keep it standing' controversy where fighters have come forward and admitted they kept it standing because UFC msg was clear- 'keep it standing and you're more likely to get a call back even if ya lose' as opposed to a solid guillotine in the first 30 seconds and a clean mma win - in fact it could be argued that more fighters are training stand up more than subs these days for just that reason - coz they want to be a successful exiting UFC stand up fighter. And then there's the standem up after bout 30 seconds no exciting action on the ground - a good BJJ guy can work for a sub for 5 mins solid like a boa constrictor or whatever- eventually getting their sub but in PRO MMA the ref and crowd wont stand for it so people are used to fights being stood up quickly - in fact people shout for it - same with against the cage stuff - where good Greco work and clinch work is being done but its no good for the vast maj of the crowd who only know knockouts and want more of the same. The UFC is a business and PRO MMA is deffo just a sport - and the more the business has the final say in the matter then the less the sport is going to represent who would really win in a hand to hand combat situation. But I'm not as naive as to say that most of these guys wouldn't destroy you on the street its just frustrating as I 've seen a number of times when things should have just been let to take their course whether on the ground or against the cage - just because vast maj of the crowd doesn't understand and respect the whole mma approach to a fight and simply wants flurry punch haymaker knockouts - its just one of those endless arguments - whats good for the development of the sport - the development of the business (I should say monopoly) or whats good for the evolution of MMA or what works etc..
I dont remember any very serious injuries in the first few UFCs i.e. life threatening - bar Gordeauxs flying teeth and Hackney getting it right in the rocks off Royce : )

dunkamania

I suggest you re-read over what you post before you post it. Your last post was very long, and difficult to read.


In general, most fighters now have very good submission defense, even if they dont have a good all round ground game, so there will be less subs, than back in the good ole days, but their should be more TKO's on the ground.

Raze_them_all

soretoe wrote: »

I don't agree - in this case if the ref had enforced the rules to the T then mirko would not have won at that moment with the finger poke as the ref would've stopped and given the other guy up to 5 min or whatever which could have changed the fight - prob not but could have - and with brock - Mir, yes, legit used the head turn away chicken **** stand up move which played part in Brock hitting the back of his head - the ref in this case enforced the letter of the law and stood them up - if no rules then brock would have continued to dismantle him on the ground with hammer fists etc.. anyway - I dont think there's any point in arguing whether there should be more or less rules as the sport is where it is and the rules are where they're at due to one thing - market forces - the UFC has managed to get into a few states based on the rules they have added since day one - plus a couple more rules to stop fights ending due to excessive blood - such as the elbow down on the head - its just a business and its a sport not real fighting - its close - but you can't argue with the mirko/brock examples. Plus then there's the whole 'keep it standing' controversy where fighters have come forward and admitted they kept it standing because UFC msg was clear- 'keep it standing and you're more likely to get a call back even if ya lose' as opposed to a solid guillotine in the first 30 seconds and a clean mma win - in fact it could be argued that more fighters are training stand up more than subs these days for just that reason - coz they want to be a successful exiting UFC stand up fighter. And then there's the standem up after bout 30 seconds no exciting action on the ground - a good BJJ guy can work for a sub for 5 mins solid like a boa constrictor or whatever- eventually getting their sub but in PRO MMA the ref and crowd wont stand for it so people are used to fights being stood up quickly - in fact people shout for it - same with against the cage stuff - where good Greco work and clinch work is being done but its no good for the vast maj of the crowd who only know knockouts and want more of the same. The UFC is a business and PRO MMA is deffo just a sport - and the more the business has the final say in the matter then the less the sport is going to represent who would really win in a hand to hand combat situation. But I'm not as naive as to say that most of these guys wouldn't destroy you on the street its just frustrating as I 've seen a number of times when things should have just been let to take their course whether on the ground or against the cage - just because vast maj of the crowd doesn't understand and respect the whole mma approach to a fight and simply wants flurry punch haymaker knockouts - its just one of those endless arguments - whats good for the development of the sport - the development of the business (I should say monopoly) or whats good for the evolution of MMA or what works etc..
I dont remember any very serious injuries in the first few UFCs i.e. life threatening - bar Gordeauxs flying teeth and Hackney getting it right in the rocks off Royce : )

My got my learn to break up what your saying.

How was turning his head a stand up move. Turning your head away is smart. Brock was stupid enough to hit to the back of the head. In my last fight the ref stood me and my opponent up after a strike to the back of the head. In the heat of the moment alot of fighters don't pick their shots when raining down blows and are rightly exploited by fighters who INTELLIGENTLY defend themselves by turning there heads.

Turning your head means the opposing fighter has to readjust where he is striking, giving you a brief second to think and start defending again. Besides Brocks ground and pound posture and technique does him no favours at all.

soretoe

lost the plot in my rant there - yeah fairnuf turning the head is tactical

I do think Brocks g'n'p will be better again this time though

He'll chance a few straights on his feet and then take Mir down with ease and hold em there while he rains hammer fists all over him - and if Mir turns his head this time brocks just gonna turn it back physically and punish him even more

I love the idea of Brock destroying everyone in his division for a few years not because of his skill - it sure aint pretty to see - shoot - hold - hamer fist over and over but he's such a freak he transcends technique and strategy - and thats before he actually starts to get respected for his own tehcnique and strategy which he will do soon enough and then even the likes of Fedor will have little chance - and that's a massive statement - face it he's a freak - he works harder than you - he learns fast - he's completely fearless - he's gonna wreck ya - simple as that ..............ahem I hope....coz it'll be more than a hat I'll have to eat if I'm wrong

I adore Lesnar and I think he will destroy everyone in the division, hopefully not the boy Velasquez though, he's the next big thing in my mind at least, he's such an incredible specimen! I've said that three times now in this thread. I think I'll cover my boner and leave with my head held high!

roo1981

I propose a toast to the joys of paragraphs, and the legibility they instill...

soretoe wrote: »

I don't agree - in this case if the ref had enforced the rules to the T then mirko would not have won at that moment with the finger poke as the ref would've stopped and given the other guy up to 5 min or whatever which could have changed the fight - prob not but could have...

And with brock - Mir, yes, legit used the head turn away chicken **** stand up move which played part in Brock hitting the back of his head - the ref in this case enforced the letter of the law and stood them up - if no rules then brock would have continued to dismantle him on the ground with hammer fists etc...

Anyway - I dont think there's any point in arguing whether there should be more or less rules as the sport is where it is and the rules are where they're at due to one thing - market forces

The UFC has managed to get into a few states based on the rules they have added since day one - plus a couple more rules to stop fights ending due to excessive blood - such as the elbow down on the head - its just a business and its a sport not real fighting - its close - but you can't argue with the mirko/brock examples. Plus then there's the whole 'keep it standing' controversy where fighters have come forward and admitted they kept it standing because UFC msg was clear- 'keep it standing and you're more likely to get a call back even if ya lose' as opposed to a solid guillotine in the first 30 seconds and a clean mma win.

In fact it could be argued that more fighters are training stand up more than subs these days for just that reason - coz they want to be a successful exiting UFC stand up fighter. And then there's the standem up after bout 30 seconds no exciting action on the ground - a good BJJ guy can work for a sub for 5 mins solid like a boa constrictor or whatever- eventually getting their sub but in PRO MMA the ref and crowd wont stand for it so people are used to fights being stood up quickly - in fact people shout for it - same with against the cage stuff - where good Greco work and clinch work is being done but its no good for the vast maj of the crowd who only know knockouts and want more of the same.

The UFC is a business and PRO MMA is deffo just a sport - and the more the business has the final say in the matter then the less the sport is going to represent who would really win in a hand to hand combat situation. But I'm not as naive as to say that most of these guys wouldn't destroy you on the street its just frustrating as I 've seen a number of times when things should have just been let to take their course whether on the ground or against the cage - just because vast maj of the crowd doesn't understand and respect the whole mma approach to a fight and simply wants flurry punch haymaker knockouts

Its just one of those endless arguments - whats good for the development of the sport - the development of the business (I should say monopoly) or whats good for the evolution of MMA or what works etc..
I dont remember any very serious injuries in the first few UFCs i.e. life threatening - bar Gordeauxs flying teeth and Hackney getting it right in the rocks off Royce : )

Sorry soretoe, not trying to be an ass

Raze_them_all

soretoe wrote: »

lost the plot in my rant there - yeah fairnuf turning the head is tactical

I do think Brocks g'n'p will be better again this time though

He'll chance a few straights on his feet and then take Mir down with ease and hold em there while he rains hammer fists all over him - and if Mir turns his head this time brocks just gonna turn it back physically and punish him even more

I love the idea of Brock destroying everyone in his division for a few years not because of his skill - it sure aint pretty to see - shoot - hold - hamer fist over and over but he's such a freak he transcends technique and strategy - and thats before he actually starts to get respected for his own tehcnique and strategy which he will do soon enough and then even the likes of Fedor will have little chance - and that's a massive statement - face it he's a freak - he works harder than you - he learns fast - he's completely fearless - he's gonna wreck ya - simple as that ..............ahem I hope....coz it'll be more than a hat I'll have to eat if I'm wrong

There are no "likes of fedor" There is just Fedor.

Brock is a physical freak no doubt. Fedor isn't and yet Fedor has been decimating people for years. I know which I consider to be the more impressive feat.

meboloxitis

I'm calling a submission victory for Mir again

Brock is a big freak but Frank Mir is a true martial artist. To come back from the accident the way he did & still compete at the top level is inspiring.

Anybody who trains Jiu Jitsu will know that the neck & legs are weak points for the big guys. I reckon Mir will work for a sweep and take Lesnars back. If he doesnt get a rnc in he will go for the knee bar or heel hook.

Unless brock has been intensely working on bjj defence he's gonna tap.

I'm still pissed at the big mongo for taking out Randy! Bastard

cowzerp

I agree, as far as im concerned, if mir does not out box him and bash him like he did big nog then he will choke him out on the ground, my prediction is some boxing to bash brock about a bit then down to the ground where brock will be going asleep. strenght does not matter when your arteries are blocked and the sandman comes to say hello.

chopperbyrne

That theory is all well and good, but unless Brock takes it to the ground how is Mir going to get him there?

This is a top, top class wrestler we're talking about, who is also much bigger and stronger than Frank. Unless Frank also has some excellent Judo throws, Brock is only going to ground when he wants to take the fight to the ground and that will be a double leg shoot, guaranteed.

cowzerp

chopperbyrne wrote: »

That theory is all well and good, but unless Brock takes it to the ground how is Mir going to get him there?.

Thats my point-if brock stands with Mir he's looking for a lucky punch, Mir boxed excently v Nog last time and i was impressed, if he does the same next time then he will box the ears off Brock standing, Brock will take it down at some stage and then its GnP v Been choked in my eyes.

Hail 2 Da Chimp

I think Brock ia going to take it... I hate saying that but I keep thinking back to the Mir Vs Freeman fight.
Mir keeps trying for the leg lock and Freeman pounds the head of him.
I predict this going the same way...

chopperbyrne

As the previous Mir fight, the Herring fight and the Couture fight have shown though, is that one solid punch from Brock is enough to put anyone on their back.

There are very few people who will want to risk trading blows with him.

Personally I think Mirs best chance is to try to get in a clinch with Brock against the cage and try to work a guillotine or some kind of arm/shoulder submission when Brock tries to slam him.

Edit: @ cowzerp

Raze_them_all

chopperbyrne wrote: »

As the previos Mir fight, the Herring fight and the Couture fight have shown though, is that one solid punch from Brock is enough to put anyone on their back.

There are very few people who will want to risk trading blows with him.

Personally I think Mirs best chance is to try to get in a clinch with Brock against the cage and try to work a guillotine or some kind of arm/shoulder submission when Brock tries to slam him.

Edit: @ cowzerp

It's a good thing Mir has world class Jitz and not wrestling then isn it?

iregk

Has anyone got any idea if this is being carried on TV over here? Setanta closed yesterday evening so its obviously not on there.

sockpuppets

there is talk of bravo or virgin getting it. but the ufc did say there will be no problem as it will be announced in coming days where it will be shown.
as far as the fight goes, i think people are going to be surprised by how soon this fight is over, mir is awesome but lesner is a beast and i think first round stoppage is on the cards

Fozzy

I'm looking forward to see if Mir can keep up what he showed in his last fight and also what Brock has improved on. He's proven himself to be an insanely fast learner in other fields in the past and no doubt he's improved since his last fight, but I'd love to see how much

rovert

Nog's performance against Mir still puzzles me.

callaway92

rovert wrote: »

Nog's performance against Mir still puzzles me.

Was such a shock alright. Didnt show any promise in that match at all

soretoe

I think Nog has had it - there's no other way of looking at it - he's never looked so bad - so weak - so slow - so old and so beaten - as amazing as he was especially at subs

Mirs boxing was great - the 'left straight followed by a weird angle right uppercut thing' he kept doing was absolutely spot on - and worked perfectly about 4 times - and not by accident - I'm not a boxer or anything but if there's any boxing lads out there I'm sure they'd agree that it looked like something they worked out before hand and kept using it - it was not disimilar to a sort of wing chun off straight style angled punch thingy but it aint gnona do it against Brock because Brock will be instructed that if Mir is getting any joy at all with strikes to take it downstairs in a hurry and wrestle for good face bongo position : )

UFC 100 ' The End is Mir '

dunkamania

rovert wrote: »

Nog's performance against Mir still puzzles me.

He is defnitely past his prime. But he defnitely had a serious knee injury, and possibly staph. Not trying to take away from Mir's achievement here.

rovert

dunkamania wrote: »

He is defnitely past his prime. But he defnitely had a serious knee injury, and possibly staph. Not trying to take away from Mir's achievement here.

Me neither, on the technical end his stand up opened many eyes. But the strange circumstances around the fight meant I couldn’t make up my mind on the Lesnar fight one way or the other to any great degree which is a shame.

Mikeyt086

Im going with Lesnar, St Pierre and Bisping.

Im a big fan of all 3, so obviously i was thrilled when the lineup was announced. I would not be suprised if i was wrong on Brock and Bisping, but i think GSP is a cert.