Reserve team football?

therecklessone

Prompted by the recent announcement by Spurs that we won't be entering a reserve team in the Premier Reserve League this coming season:

It is felt it would be of greater benefit providing our 18 to 21-year-old players with a tailor-made games programme, which includes experiencing competitive football with loan transfers, tournaments and private friendly fixtures that allows greater flexibility around the First Team's fixture schedule.

It also enables fixtures to be arranged as and when they are required for First Team squad members.

We have outlined our thoughts to the Premier League and explained how we feel this programme provides a better alternative in meeting the changing requirements of our players.

"I just think it gives you the option of fixing up a game where and whenever you want rather than being tied to a fixture schedule which can sometimes prove difficult around First Team games," reasoned Manager Harry Redknapp.

"This way we can create our own schedule and play games when we want to. There are always clubs looking for games so I think this will suit us better.

"The youngsters need to go out on loan and get playing like they did last year. It was a great experience for those lads who went out so we will be looking to do the same again this season."

I know a lot of reserve games tend to be shifted around because of fixture clashes with first team fixtures, and also because in some cases the teams play their games at other clubs' grounds and so have to make way for the home team to play. Is there any benefit to a haphazard reserve team schedule?

I know there is no reserve team football in Italy, and in Spain the B teams compete in league football. Didn't Chelsea suggest something like reserve teams playing in the lower leagues recently?

Boggles

Jaysus, Sub Goaly job just got a hell of a whole lot easier.

~Rebel~

Boggles wrote: »

Jaysus, Sub Goaly job just got a hell of a whole lot easier.

Poor Cudicini! Never has such a good player played so little for so long while being fit!

Guy:Incognito

~Rebel~ wrote: »

Poor Cudicini! Never has such a good player played so little for so long while being fit!

Never before has such a good keeper been happy to not play.


He really should have done better for himself. Smacks of being happy to pick up a pay cheque.

therecklessone

Stekelly wrote: »

Never before has such a good keeper been happy to not play.


He really should have done better for himself. Smacks of being happy to pick up a pay cheque.

How people laughed when I said Gomes would stay #1...

Anyway, back on topic...anyone think this is a good idea for a club to implement?

Max Power1

Stekelly wrote: »

He really should have done better for himself. Smacks of being happy to pick up a pay cheque.

Reminds me of one Winston Bogarde!!

Why not do like they do in spain, and allow reserve teams (as the Real Madrid Castilla do for example) enter the lower league? Reserve league football isnt up to much; the experience gained for youngsters on say Arsenal Reserves in League 2/ Blue Square premier would be more relevant to the young players development surely?

~Rebel~

therecklessone wrote: »

How people laughed when I said Gomes would stay #1...

Anyway, back on topic...anyone think this is a good idea for a club to implement?

I dont think this is a great idea tbh, but nor is whats there. Im not sure Mourinho and Rafa's calls for the premierleague teams to have second teams lower down the ranks is the way to go either, as they cant take other teams places, so need to start in the conference which is obviously pretty poor experience.

The problem with Harry's idea for me, is that theres a big difference between a competitive game and an organised friendly. Mentally, a competitive match is much tougher, and its something the reserves need to get used to. As well as this, it gives the reserves nothing to focus on, no goal, no chance of real glory. Ok, there are the occasional mini tournaments, which i think are great, but i think its better to have something to aim for at the start of the campaign, like a league title. I think a better solution is a better organised reserve league with more regular games

therecklessone

~Rebel~ wrote: »

The problem with Harry's idea for me, is that theres a big difference between a competitive game and an organised friendly. Mentally, a competitive match is much tougher, and its something the reserves need to get used to. I think a better solution is a better organised reserve league with more regular games

In fairness though, do many clubs take reserve football seriously, as a competitive venture?

I know our Academy side have taken part in a number of international tournaments against top sides, and done very well. They are at least as competitive as a reserve team fixture.

The problem will be with 3rd and 4th choice players for certain positions, the Pasal Chimbondas of this world, who'll likely get a proper match once in a blue moon. I'm expecting a big clearout at Spurs to pare down the squad with this change in mind.

Eire-Dearg

I think reserve teams in the lower leagues is a great idea, but it's of great misbenifit to the regular clubs down there vying for their place. And I don't think many would be too pleased with another Liverpool side in the Premier League after a few years

~Rebel~

therecklessone wrote: »

In fairness though, do many clubs take reserve football seriously, as a competitive venture?

The senior players, i doubt it, but the youths, i would say definately. Looking at the reactions and interviews of the Liverpool kids who won the reserve league year before last they were absolutely over the moon. When you're in your teens, whatever league you're in is gonna be great to win, particularly if you get a good unit of them together.

As I was saying i think the mini international tournements are fantastic too, gets the players used to playing abroad, adds excitement etc, but they're only a few games long. I just think its much better to have a long term goal to be able to focus on as well, rather then random hodge podge meaningless friendlies against whatever team happens to be free that week

DerekD Goldfish

Didn't Chelsea suggest something like reserve teams playing in the lower leagues recently?

Because that's what world football needs another chelsea
In Italy where all the players are loaned owed or co owned with smaller teams and then the big sids buy them out if they show any potential you end up with a situation where the big teams own 50 odd players playing the Seire A and B I think that situation is overly messey and complicated and makes it harder for small teams to en earth talent and hold onto it.

Im not a fan of the Spanish system either reserve sides are not real teams and should not be taking up places in the league for real teams with real fans (im not saying fans of big teams arnt real fans) just that reserve sides don't justify their existence as they only exist due to their only exist because of finances and support from thier parent side.


I also see the flaws in the english system most squads in top tier sides are far to big to many kids are given first team contracts in the hope one out of 20 of them will make the first team.

I suggest you limit al sides to 25 full time professional contracts teams will still have youth sides but when they become 18-19 clubs will have to decide if players deserve a first team place if they arnt they go to another team where they are good enough for first team football if they are good enough they will work thier way up the leagues.

big teams throw their net far to wide and take in far to many players it would be better for players to pay first team football at a lower level untill they are good enough.

Id would also encourage players to stay in thier home country and get first team football their and then move if they are good enough rather than go abroad with a tiny chance of comming through the system

Boggles

therecklessone wrote: »

How people laughed when I said Gomes would stay #1...

Their still laughing.

He is a cross between Gordon Banks and Dave Beasant.

Would glady let Huddlestone come play for our Reserves though.

Max Power1

Eire-Dearg wrote: »

I think reserve teams in the lower leagues is a great idea, but it's of great misbenifit to the regular clubs down there vying for their place. And I don't think many would be too pleased with another Liverpool side in the Premier League after a few years

It could be done like it is in Spain, the parent and reserve teams must be separated by at least one division.

~Rebel~

Max Power1 wrote: »

It could be done like it is in Spain, the parent and reserve teams must be separated by at least one division.

Either way, the new team would need to work its way up from the conference which means the actual usefulness of it as an experience builder is completely negated for the 4, 5 or 6 years till they get to a reasonable level. No premierleague team wants their backup players to have to step up 5 divisions in quality if they're needed to fill a breach.

Obviously it would be a no no to just put them into league 1 or 2, would be completely unfair on those who earned it.

mink_man

nooo!!!

therecklessone

~Rebel~ wrote: »

The senior players, i doubt it, but the youths, i would say definately.

There's an Academy league as well, and from what I can see it is much better organised than the reserve league, and probably more competitive (not many players simply picking up a pay cheque)

~Rebel~

therecklessone wrote: »

There's an Academy league as well, and from what I can see it is much better organised than the reserve league, and probably more competitive (not many players simply picking up a pay cheque)

Thats true, but im talking more about the guys between that and the first team, in liverpools case the likes of Nemeth, Pacheco, Bruna, San jose, Kelly etc etc etc. I think going from a decent youth system with decent competition in an organised league to a competitive hiatus for the 2 or 3 years before their ready for the first team would be a very bad idea. If anything, at that point the competitive pressure level needs to be stepped up a little, not down, to better prepare the players for the high pressure situations of the first team.

I've played with a lot of players (and have been in the situation myself) who were excellent in mess games and friendlies, but then rubbish when the pressure was really on. Those players who can best cope with the pressure of proper competition are the ones who make it, and i think its just a bad idea to take that away in any way before the biggest step up they'll make in their careers.

Now, Harry's plan would seem to be that these guys would be loaned out, but i think it would be better that, while some should be loaned out, that others could stay and continue improve within the structure of the club. Not every 18 year old Spaniard or french kid with pigeon english is going to be mentally prepared for joining a team of tough english lads in a lower league side.

DerekD Goldfish

~Rebel~ wrote: »

Thats true, but im talking more about the guys between that and the first team, in liverpools case the likes of Nemeth, Pacheco, Bruna, San jose, Kelly etc etc etc. I think going from a decent youth system with decent competition in an organised league to a competitive hiatus for the 2 or 3 years before their ready for the first team would be a very bad idea. If anything, at that point the competitive pressure level needs to be stepped up a little, not down, to better prepare the players for the high pressure situations of the first team.

I've played with a lot of players (and have been in the situation myself) who were excellent in mess games and friendlies, but then rubbish when the pressure was really on. Those players who can best cope with the pressure of proper competition are the ones who make it, and i think its just a bad idea to take that away in any way before the biggest step up they'll make in their careers.

Now, Harry's plan would seem to be that these guys would be loaned out, but i think it would be better that, while some should be loaned out, that others could stay and continue improve within the structure of the club. Not every 18 year old Spaniard or french kid with pigeon english is going to be mentally prepared for joining a team of tough english lads in a lower league side.

Then maybe they should play in their own league till they good enough to play in the fiirst team of a "big" team

~Rebel~

DerekD Goldfish wrote: »

Then maybe they should play in their own league till they good enough to play in the fiirst team of a "big" team

All well and good saying that, but im talking about the realities of the situation. While there are plenty of english kids in the youth ranks, all the premiership clubs also have foreign youngsters in there too. No point just ignoring that facet of it simply because one disagrees with it. Its there, its a fact, it must be taken into consideration.

And incidentally my point is still perfectly valid for home grown talent, after all not all English 18 year olds will be mentally ready to move away from home to play with a group of men in a highly physical league either.

Guy:Incognito

What happens if in 10 years half of the championship was made up of the top teams B teams?

If they came 1-10 then the teams getting promoted would be the teams that finished 11-13 . The play offs would be made up of anyone that turns up(or most likely , gotten rid of).

Who supports these B teams? Do they have support like most teams, ie will there be a seperate set of supporters that only follow Liverpool B and no tthe first team(but wearing the same jersey)?