Satire

Babbit

Who are your favourite satirists?

I love the 1920s era - such great writers writing from such a strange and breezy time period. Clouded over with new conflicts of Bohemianism and traditional Victorionism dying its last breath. the 1920s has the last breath of aristocracy coupled with a new intellectualism and popular culture unheard of in previous decades. My personal favourites are Aldous Huxley and Sinclair Lewis (Hence my name). I suppose F.Scott Fitzgerald could be thrown in also, but apart from 'The Great Gatsby' I haven't read any of his stuff.

What do ye think? Do you like satire? If so, who are your favourite Satirists?

P.S - Almost forgot to add Mark Twain! Greatest American writer of all time!

banjopaul

Animal Farm by Orwell is fairly great!

Sammy Jennings

I wouldn't count Huxley, Fitzgerald or Lewis as satirists - though their work contains elements of satire, I don't think satire is their predominant aim. Evelyn Waugh and H.L. Mencken are more salient examples.

Sammy Jennings

There are some great satirists at work today - Chris Morris, Jon Stewart, Armando Iannucci . . .

Sir Digby Chicken Caesar

you did not just lump jon stewart in with chris morris

Sammy Jennings

I'm not saying they're equally good. I think Morris is far more incisive and imaginative a satirist than Stewart, but also more alienating - I still think Brass Eye is hilarious but it was also, on occasion, pointlessly insensitive.

Morris might be the best living satirist but there's a misanthropy and nastiness about his work that unnerves me to probably the same extent that you find dubious Stewart's frequent 'I'm-just-a-regular-guy-and-this-is-BS' tirades.

Having said that, America: The Book is damn funny.

Alsatian_Cousin

Good call on Chris Morris and Armando Ianucci. I think Will Self is brilliant too

Babbit

Sammy Jennings wrote: »

I wouldn't count Huxley, Fitzgerald or Lewis as satirists - though their work contains elements of satire, I don't think satire is their predominant aim. Evelyn Waugh and H.L. Mencken are more salient examples.

I'l confess I've only a read a couple of Fitzgeralds or Lewis' work, but I've read most of Huxleys novels and from what I've seen its largely satire. Point Counter Point, Crome Yellow and Brave New World are very clearly written as satirical works. As are Lewis' 'Babbit' and 'Main Street'. Satire is very clearly the predominant aim, I don't know where you got that idea from.

Sammy Jennings

Babbit wrote: »

I'l confess I've only a read a couple of Fitzgeralds or Lewis' work, but I've read most of Huxleys novels and from what I've seen its largely satire. Point Counter Point, Crome Yellow and Brave New World are very clearly written as satirical works. As are Lewis' 'Babbit' and 'Main Street'. Satire is very clearly the predominant aim, I don't know where you got that idea from.

In what way is Brave New World satirical? Clarify your definition of satire. Brave New World is one of the worst books I've read from a supposedly canonical author. It's appallingly written (and the frequent references to Shakespeare invite ungenerous comparisons), without characterisation or plot, and the dialogue is woeful. As for naming characters after Soviet demagogues - well, perhaps you're right, that qualifies as satire, albeit of the piss-poor, intellectually redundant variety.

To Lewis: I know less about him but the impression I received was that he belonged to that group of writers who believe the aim of literature is to point out and improve on the defects of society, hence his reputation as a well-meaning if artless pamphleteer. Don't you read any good authors or is your expertise limited to respectable also-rans?

Babbit

Sammy Jennings wrote: »

In what way is Brave New World satirical? Clarify your definition of satire. Brave New World is one of the worst books I've read from a supposedly canonical author. It's appallingly written (and the frequent references to Shakespeare invite ungenerous comparisons), without characterisation or plot, and the dialogue is woeful. As for naming characters after Soviet demagogues - well, perhaps you're right, that qualifies as satire, albeit of the piss-poor, intellectually redundant variety.

To Lewis: I know less about him but the impression I received was that he belonged to that group of writers who believe the aim of literature is to point out and improve on the defects of society, hence his reputation as a well-meaning if artless pamphleteer. Don't you read any good authors or is your expertise limited to respectable also-rans?

I'm not prepared to get into some pretentious chin wagging - ie, who I've read and who I haven't - but you don't seem to have read Lewis yet have the audacity to call him an also-ran?

Sammy Jennings

Babbit wrote: »

I'm not prepared to get into some pretentious chin wagging - ie, who I've read and who I haven't - but you don't seem to have read Lewis yet have the audacity to call him an also-ran?

All right, then - shall we get into some unpretentious chin-wagging? Name the time and place...

By the way, I've read Oil!, It Can't Happen Here and The Jungle. Even for a Nobel laureate, those were annoyingly earnest and turgidly written books. Does that fulfill your criteria?

P.S. If Lewis ever wears on you, try reading An American Tragedy by Theodore Dreiser. It's from the same era, and probably dull enough for your tastes.

Babbit

Sammy Jennings wrote: »

probably dull enough for your tastes.

Thanks. I'm sorry I have significantly less brain cells than you obviously have.

Sammy Jennings

You should be sorry...

Madou

A thread about satire and Kurt Vonnegut hasn't even been mentioned . Just to mention two, Cat's Cradle and Galapagos are fantastically scathing satirical works.

IvyTheTerrible

Graham Greene

MrPirate

Jennifer Government by Max Barry! Genius stuff!

Sammy Jennings

MrPirate wrote: »

Jennifer Government by Max Barry! Genius stuff!

Is it? I'm not quarreling with your judgement - it's that I've heard mixed reviews. The concept sounds like it could be a brilliant novel.

not bakunin

going back quite a bit.......the master of satire, the grandfather and spunk giver of this genre....

Voltaire.

just read "Candide", a very short book, but it blisters with digs. I wasn't even fully aware of the historical context of what he was getting at, but man alive, the satire emulisified right there and dripped off the pages.



also someone above mentioned Graham Greene, where and when may i ask?

IvyTheTerrible

not bakunin wrote: »

also someone above mentioned Graham Greene, where and when may i ask?

"Our Man in Havana" in particular, tells of a guy who gets involved in spying for the British in the cold war. The man can't find enough info for the authorities so he starts making things up. It's a dig at the British secret service.

I quite enjoyed the humour in it.

IronMan

Jonathan Swift, especially A modest proposal

Catch 22. I don't like it, but satire it is.

The Illuminatus! Trilogy has elements of satire.

I sometimes think Joyce was a satirist. With the reader being the victim.

not bakunin

IvyTheTerrible wrote: »

"Our Man in Havana" in particular, tells of a guy who gets involved in spying for the British in the cold war. The man can't find enough info for the authorities so he starts making things up. It's a dig at the British secret service.

I quite enjoyed the humour in it.

Aha, youre right there. I've read that book myself, and it's great. The next book i read by Greene was "Brighton Rock", which was so utterly different, I had to keep checking the cover to check that it was the same author. It's one of my favourite pieces of fiction, ever.

Dades

Robert Heinlein's worth a mention.

Not only the book from my sig, but a few others too.

IvyTheTerrible

not bakunin wrote: »

Aha, youre right there. I've read that book myself, and it's great. The next book i read by Greene was "Brighton Rock", which was so utterly different, I had to keep checking the cover to check that it was the same author. It's one of my favourite pieces of fiction, ever.

I totally agree. I loved Brighton Rock as well, but it was so stark...not a book to read if you are a bit fed up.