expansion

conchubhar1

belarus, ukraine, moldova, slovenia, boznia and herzgovenia, serbia, montenegro, albania and russia (kosova?)

what is the status of these countries in respect to wanting to join the eu

is it likely the 5 african states, azerbijan,israel, syria, lebanon? and jordan? will join in the future too?
in relation to their curent relationship and c op with the eu - not just randon countries

cfcj

the next set of countries that are most likely to join are Rep. of Macedonia & Croatia, but both have been held up due to the EU negotiations with Turkey. Turkey is the most high profile and recently got an endorsement from Barrack Obama of all people. Being a muslim country there is a lot of controversy and apathy to Turkey joining. The UK are keen on it, if only to save their bacon with the muslim world.

The European Commission puts together a report called a monitoring report which it details research on various countries then feeds back into Parliament and to the Council. I think its a mutual approach though I believe Turkey made the first move with their case.

I can't see any of the countries you listed in joining. Israel joins Europe with sporting and even the Eurovision because of their, outcast, relationship with their neighboring Arab states. But given their track record and whats happening there now I doubt, and hope, there will never be EU membership.

conchubhar1

they receive funding and have a close relationship with the eu

search up - israel and the eu - europa.ec.eu the commissions website gives info on them

cfcj

Ohhh I wouldn't worry, more chance of China joining. I would put it down to a subtle push from Washington that is trying to get rid of the burden of Israel from its payroll.

conchubhar1

well

any more opinions or comments?

KINGVictor

conchubhar1 wrote: »

belarus, ukraine, moldova, slovenia, boznia and herzgovenia, serbia, montenegro, albania and russia (kosova?)

what is the status of these countries in respect to wanting to join the eu

is it likely the 5 african states, azerbijan,israel, syria, lebanon? and jordan? will join in the future too?
in relation to their curent relationship and c op with the eu - not just randon countries

5 African countries.... azerbijan,israel, syria, lebanon? and jordan???????.....none of these are African countries at all.


Coming to your question...I personally feel that EU has to apply political wisdom in accepting new members instead of blindly granting membership just to increase followership...Up till today Brussels has concerns with a number of EU member nations notably Romania,Bulgaria in terms of Corruption,rule of law etc...such actions IMOH could pose very compilcated difficulties in future.

conchubhar1

sorry i only presumed people would know that comma meant it seperated them

the 5 northern african countries and those mentioned by name above

Mario007

iceland and greenland are the likely candidates actually...iceland and eu now both want iceland in...and greenland is under home rule from denmark but it opted out of eu at first...right now the early negotiations have started between eu and greenland...no kidding

cfcj

It will be interesting to see what happens with Iceland in general. I don't think they will seek to join the EU, though the IMF might try set up something to help them out of their economic crisis, it really is unchartered territory. They did try and adopt the Euro without membership but were told they would need full membership. And of course after the Sweden situation any new membership and the Euro are mutually required. With an 18% inflation rate at the moment I'm not sure anyone is going to touch them for a few years. Also there is a little international concern that the Icelandic government aren't taking on any of the foreign debts that their failed banks had accumulated, probably might come back to bite them

djpbarry

conchubhar1 wrote: »

belarus, ukraine, moldova, slovenia, boznia and herzgovenia, serbia, montenegro, albania and russia (kosova?)

Slovenia is already a member. I can see the Ukraine being a likely candidate for membership in the not-too-distant future.

cfcj wrote: »

Being a muslim country there is a lot of controversy and apathy to Turkey joining. The UK are keen on it, if only to save their bacon with the muslim world.

That tops the list of benefits of Turkish membership?

cfcj

benefits? who is discussing benefits of Turkey's application to joining the EU?

conchubhar1

well, people would prefer benefits of new members joining

not just baggage

petronius

If Lisbon reduces our say in Europe to less than 1/2 of a percentage how much less will we have when Iceland, Croatia, or especially a big country like Turkey join?

oscarBravo

petronius wrote: »

If Lisbon reduces our say in Europe to less than 1/2 of a percentage...

It doesn't.

Iwasfrozen

djpbarry wrote:

That tops the list of benefits of Turkish membership?

Oh, I'm sorry. Are there benefits of Turkish membership ?

free to prosper

While EU barometer polls show that only 29% of Irish people support Turkish accession to the EU, it is a fact that both Fianna Fail, Labour and Fine Gael party leaders do so.

Demonstrating a big democratic deficit, the majority of people in the EU are also opposed to Turkey’s entry while the EU elite support it leading the EU Commission to open up talks to facilitate the EU entry of Turkey, a country of 75 million people, mostly Sunni Muslims.

The reasons usually given for opposition to Turkish accession include:
Turkey has a terrible human rights record regarding its treatment of the Kurds and its Christian minority (according to Amnesty reports) , and still occupies northern Cyprus.

On top of this it has a very unstable democracy-

its governing party has deep roots in the radical Islamist movement; and its EU membership would bring Iran, Iraq, Syria to the doors of the EU. Culturally and geographically it is not part of Europe.

A populous giant of 75 million people, Turkey remains an economic pigmy, ensuring its accession would mean a huge drain on resources to other EU member States, taking a high percentage of CAP funds available to farmers.

It could also mean the free movement of Turkish workers throughout the EU, with guaranteed open-access to Ireland and the UK.
Both the Fine Fail and Fine Gael leaders support Turkish Accession, and Irish Government will not veto its entry to the EU.

Because Lisbon is a vote on an ever closer, ever expanding EU, the only practical opportunity that Irish people have to express their opposition to Turkish accession is to vote ‘No’ to the Treaty of Lisbon. It will send a clear message to the elites that the people should decide on important matters.
Turkish accession was an issue in the last French referendum when the electorate voted NO.

We now have a golden opportunity to show our support for the people of France and Holland who voted NO. They need all the support they can get so come on Dustin, Don’t be a Turkey, vote No to Lisbon.

oscarBravo

Any chance of an answer to this question?

Scofflaw

Because Lisbon is a vote on an ever closer, ever expanding EU, the only practical opportunity that Irish people have to express their opposition to Turkish accession is to vote ‘No’ to the Treaty of Lisbon. It will send a clear message to the elites that the people should decide on important matters.
Turkish accession was an issue in the last French referendum when the electorate voted NO.

Or they could oppose it by opposing Turkish accession, much as has successfully been done for the last 20 years. Admittedly, that leaves you without a convenient red herring, but I'm sure there's plenty more in the well-stocked fish shop of the No campaigns.

cordially,
Scofflaw

cfcj

free to prosper wrote: »

While EU barometer polls show that only 29% of Irish people support Turkish accession to the EU, it is a fact that both Fianna Fail, Labour and Fine Gael party leaders do so.

Demonstrating a big democratic deficit, the majority of people in the EU are also opposed to Turkey’s entry while the EU elite support it leading the EU Commission to open up talks to facilitate the EU entry of Turkey, a country of 75 million people, mostly Sunni Muslims.

The reasons usually given for opposition to Turkish accession include:
Turkey has a terrible human rights record regarding its treatment of the Kurds and its Christian minority (according to Amnesty reports) , and still occupies northern Cyprus.

On top of this it has a very unstable democracy-

its governing party has deep roots in the radical Islamist movement; and its EU membership would bring Iran, Iraq, Syria to the doors of the EU. Culturally and geographically it is not part of Europe.

A populous giant of 75 million people, Turkey remains an economic pigmy, ensuring its accession would mean a huge drain on resources to other EU member States, taking a high percentage of CAP funds available to farmers.

It could also mean the free movement of Turkish workers throughout the EU, with guaranteed open-access to Ireland and the UK.
Both the Fine Fail and Fine Gael leaders support Turkish Accession, and Irish Government will not veto its entry to the EU.

Because Lisbon is a vote on an ever closer, ever expanding EU, the only practical opportunity that Irish people have to express their opposition to Turkish accession is to vote ‘No’ to the Treaty of Lisbon. It will send a clear message to the elites that the people should decide on important matters.
Turkish accession was an issue in the last French referendum when the electorate voted NO.

We now have a golden opportunity to show our support for the people of France and Holland who voted NO. They need all the support they can get so come on Dustin, Don’t be a Turkey, vote No to Lisbon.

Although I am in the undecided camp with regards to Lisbon I think that what you have drolled out is typical scaremongering on behalf of the NO campaign, similar to what Scofflaw has indicated. And basically not helpful to people actually trying to determine what is a right and wrong decision on Lisbon. I have no opinion either way on Turkey joining the EU, as I believe it that negotiations are ongoing and explorations are being made by EU diplomats and that, no doubt, a report will be presented of their findings to the council and a debate will follow.

free to prosper wrote: »

While EU barometer polls show that only 29% of Irish people support Turkish accession to the EU, it is a fact that both Fianna Fail, Labour and Fine Gael party leaders do so.

I have searched for evidence of this and haven't been able to find it so please supply a source

free to prosper

Bit of a give away in the sentence:

While EU barometer polls show that only 29% of Irish people support Turkish accession to the EU,

They stopped asking this question about 2 years ago - so go to EU barometer reports before that.

Hitman Actual

free to prosper wrote: »

Bit of a give away in the sentence:

They stopped asking this question about 2 years ago - so go to EU barometer reports before that.

Without speaking for cfcj, you said it's a "fact" that the leaders of the three main parties support the accession of Turkey to the EU. I assume you have sources for these "facts"?

View

free to prosper wrote: »

Because Lisbon is a vote on an ever closer, ever expanding EU, the only practical opportunity that Irish people have to express their opposition to Turkish accession is to vote ‘No’ to the Treaty of Lisbon. It will send a clear message to the elites that the people should decide on important matters.
Turkish accession was an issue in the last French referendum when the electorate voted NO.

Voting No to Lisbon won't alter the chances Turkey joining or not joining the EU by one iota. Membership (for any state) is via an Accession Treaty. As such, the EU leaders could scrap Lisbon in the morning and agree to admit Turkey in the afternoon. After that, it is then up to the individual member states to approve or reject that accession treaty.

free to prosper

It is FF policy to support Turkish accession, as it is for FG and Labour.

There is stacks of proof that it is Fianna Fail publicly stated policy to support Turkish accession to the EU:

The National Forum on Europe*****-*****Forum debates the case for Turkish Membership of the European Union -with Turkey's chief negotiator - debate on Turkish accession. Nov 2, 2006.
FF, FG and Labour in favour of Turkish accession.

Forum debates the case for Turkish Membership of the European Union -with Turkey's chief negotiator
Turkey’s Chief Negotiator in accession talks with the European Union, Minister Ali Babacan, has told the National Forum On Europe that Turkey is currently seeking ways with the Finnish Presidency of the EU to resolve the thorny issue of Cyprus.....

During the Forum session, the Minister for European Affairs, Noel Treacy TD, reiterated Ireland’s strong support for European Union enlargement and said that all aspiring countries should be granted equality of opportunity in relation to EU membership. However, on Cyprus which joined the EU in 2004, Minister Treacy insisted that the integrity of each Member State was “absolute and sacrosanct” and urged Turkey to open its ports to Cypriot vessels. Minister Treacy also felt that that legal reforms in Turkey were not being implemented as fast as they should.

Fine Gael’s Charlie Flanagan, while expressing concerns about human rights in Turkey, in particular the use of torture, said that Turkish membership was very much in the interest of the EU. “Our party firmly supports your entry”, he said, adding that he believed Turkish membership would help to fight the scourge of terrorism and to eradicate the “terrible trade” of people trafficking.

The Labour party’s spokesman, Joe Costello TD, said that Turkey had always been a bridge between East and West and that he believed it was time “we reached that bridge”. He believed that a “little bit of Euroscepticism” was understandable after the accession of ten Member States in 2004 and the imminent accession of Romania and Bulgaria in January 2007. Mr Costello cautioned Minister Babacan against undue pessimism facing into what could be a long accession process. “Ireland had to wait twelve years for accession,” he pointed out “And now they wouldn’t like us to leave.” He also voiced his party’s worries that workers in Turkey did not have the right to organise, strike or bargain collectively.



Statement to the Dáil by the Taoiseach, Mr. Bertie Ahern T.D. on the outcome of the December European Council (14 and 15 December, 2006) on Wednesday, 7 February, 2007
Department of the Taoiseach*****-*****Statement to the Dáil by the Taoiseach, Mr. Bertie Ahern T.D. *****on the outcome of the December European Council (14 and 15 December, 2006) on Wednesday, 7 February, 2007

I attended the European Council in Brussels on 14 and 15 December 2006. I was accompanied by the Minister for Foreign Affairs, Dermot Ahern T.D.
The conclusions of the European Council have been laid before the Houses.

While clearly this development marks a set-back for Turkey’s accession process, I remain confident that this accession will take place in due course. Nobody is predicting an early conclusion to the process. However, having met the Turkish leadership and having visited the country, I am convinced that Turkey has a true European vocation and is making the economic and political progress necessary for accession. Turkish accession in accordance with the requirements for membership which must be met by every applicant and, indeed, every existing Member State, will not only be in Turkey’s interest but the interest of Europe and the wider region.
Department of the Taoiseach




It is FF policy to support Turkish accession:
The Minister [of Foreign Affairs] also stated that Ireland would be as helpful as possible regarding Turkey's desire to begin accession negotiations subject to certain criteria being met. - Bertie Ahern

Dil ireann - Volume 559 - 18 December, 2002 - Ceisteanna – Questions. - EU Summits.
Dil ireann - Volume 559 - 18 December, 2002 - Ceisteanna – Questions. - EU Summits.


It is Fine Gael policy to support Turkish accession.

“Coveney welcomes Turkish accession talks progress
December 17, 2004
Simon Coveney TD MEP, a member of the European Parliaments Foreign Affairs Committee today welcomed the further progress towards the opening of formal accession talks with Turkey.
“Potential Turkish membership of the European Union is a subject that has resulted in much energetic debate within the European Parliament. The EPP Group, to which Fine Gael is affiliated, is literally split down the middle on whether Turkey should be offered European Union membership at any stage in the future” said Coveney.
“My position and the position of the Fine Gael group is quite clear in relation to Turkey. We support the recommendation that the European Union open formal accession talks with Turkey but we also insist that the European Union take a tough line in relation to insisting that Turkey makes all the necessary changes to meet the Copenhagen criteria in preparing itself for European Union membership”.

The basis of the Fine Gael position is as follows:

So in short, we recommend the opening of accession talks but with a tough approach being taken with Turkey in relation to the need for them to continue their reform process on human rights issues, the respect of minorities and the creation of a normalised European democracy” concluded Simon Coveney

:: simoncoveney.ie ::

free to prosper

What are the arguments against Turkish accession?
Here are some of them:

• It could lead to mass immigration, job displacement of Irish workers and increased organised crime

• Workers from poorer countries take jobs from richer ones causing a race to the bottom in working conditions.
Companies relocate to countries like Turkey with lower labour costs and worse social protection

• The richer EU member states cannot afford to pay huge Farming and structural subsidies to Turkey.

If Turkey joined the number of farmers in the EU would double overnight, therefore CAP payments would roughly half.

• Turkey would wield huge political power because of its 80 million population, soon to be bigger than Germany.


As Sarkozy et al have said - Turkish accession cannot take place unless Lisbon is passed. And I'm voting no again.

View

free to prosper wrote: »

As Sarkozy et al have said - Turkish accession cannot take place unless Lisbon is passed. And I'm voting no again.

Sarkozy et al have said that won't allow any state (not Turkey specifically) to join prior to Lisbon coming into force. Obviously they remain free to change their mind should they so want.

Hence voting yes or no to Lisbon will not make the slightest difference on any decision on Turkish membership.

PS To the best of my knowledge, discussion about Turkey joining the EU has bubbled away since at least the early 70s. I wouldn't hold your breath about it happening anytime soon!

K-9

free to prosper wrote: »

What are the arguments against Turkish accession?
Here are some of them:

• It could lead to mass immigration, job displacement of Irish workers and increased organised crime

• Workers from poorer countries take jobs from richer ones causing a race to the bottom in working conditions.
Companies relocate to countries like Turkey with lower labour costs and worse social protection

• The richer EU member states cannot afford to pay huge Farming and structural subsidies to Turkey.

If Turkey joined the number of farmers in the EU would double overnight, therefore CAP payments would roughly half.

• Turkey would wield huge political power because of its 80 million population, soon to be bigger than Germany.


As Sarkozy et al have said - Turkish accession cannot take place unless Lisbon is passed. And I'm voting no again.

Could you not wait until the Turkish accession Treaty?

Martin 2

free to prosper wrote: »

While EU barometer polls show that only 29% of Irish people support Turkish accession to the EU, it is a fact that both Fianna Fail, Labour and Fine Gael party leaders do so.

Demonstrating a big democratic deficit, the majority of people in the EU are also opposed to Turkey’s entry while the EU elite support it leading the EU Commission to open up talks to facilitate the EU entry of Turkey, a country of 75 million people, mostly Sunni Muslims.

free to prosper, I don’t know what Turkey’s potential membership of the EU has to do with Lisbon, I searched the treaty and I didn’t find a single mention of Turkey. As other posters have already said here Turkey’s accession can be approved or rejected irrespective of whether we ratify Lisbon II or not. I think you’re really scraping the barrel if you’re trying to make this an issue for Lisbon II.

BTW, religion is not a criterion for entry into the EU so I don’t know why you see the need to mention that Turkey is mostly Sunni Muslim.

FutureTaoiseach

I can't see Turkish EU membership for the forseeable future. President Sarkozy, Chancellor Merkel and the Austrian govt claims to be opposed to full EU membership. However, Sarkozy pushed a law through the national assembly some months ago reversing a constitutional amendment that required a referendum on Turkish EU membership so you have to wonder is he playing a double-game. I don't see Austria backing-down because of the threat of the Far Right vote (29% at the last General Election) for whom this is a big deal. I think there is a possibility of a reversal of the German position after the September election, provided the Social Democrats can overcome their traditional objections to coalition with the Left party (a merger of the former Communist PDS with former SPD Finance Minister Oskar Lafontaine). The SPD supports Turkish EU membership.

At a personal level, I believe the last Enlargement has been a disaster for the economy, though I blame the politicians for that. It contributed to the housing-bubble, as Finance Minister Brian Lenihan had to admit on The Last Word on Today FM as reported by the Mail. Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me. The Irish labour-market is in crisis at the moment, and is not prepared for a repeat of 2004. There is also a risk of racial-tensions if Irish people interpret another influx as posing the risk of displacement in the context of a recession.

BlitzKrieg

At a personal level, I believe the last Enlargement has been a disaster for the economy, though I blame the politicians for that. It contributed to the housing-bubble, as Finance Minister Brian Lenihan had to admit on The Last Word on Today FM as reported by the Mail. Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me.

My god you have got to have the quickest turnaround I have ever seen from a *pro european but anti lisbon* voter I have ever seen.

Tuesday night you say:

I'm voting no primarily because of the Charter of Fundamental Rights. Lisbon I was my first no vote in an EU referendum having voted yes in the previous 3 EU referenda.

By tonight you have borderline come out and attacked pretty much every aspect of the EU, rarely backing any of your points and soapboxing to your hearts content and yes its still pathetic that even after being told the different institutions twice you still mix them up. and you have been debating Lisbon for ages on Politics.ie how the hell do you get away with it?

Hitman Actual

BlitzKrieg wrote: »

My god you have got to have the quickest turnaround I have ever seen from a *pro european but anti lisbon* voter I have ever seen.

Tuesday night you say:



By tonight you have borderline come out and attacked pretty much every aspect of the EU, rarely backing any of your points and soapboxing to your hearts content and yes its still pathetic that even after being told the different institutions you still mix them up. and you have been debating Lisbon for ages on Politics.ie how the hell do you get away with it?

There has been an interesting (and very obvious) P.ie "No" propaganda machine spinning here in the last few days alright. Not just by FT.

Scofflaw

Hitman Actual wrote: »

There has been an interesting (and very obvious) P.ie "No" propaganda machine spinning here in the last few days alright. Not just by FT.

Yes, that's been rather noticeable - it seems to have coincided with the rather huffy departure of certain very vociferous posters. While there's no bar on anyone joining the forum, a sudden influx of politics.ie posters all with the same viewpoint inside a 48 hour period is slightly suspicious. People are welcome to post and engage, but if the intention is to flood this forum with a particular viewpoint, that is not welcome, and will be stamped on.

moderately,
Scofflaw