Signing with a label thats not selling on beatport

seannash

okay so i sent out two tracks to a label i was liking.it turns out i got the wrong label(one had music at the end the other recordings but each had the same first name)
they got back to me and said they wanted to release an ep of my stuff.

now i normally dont really entertain the idea of signing to a label who dont sell on beatport but these guys are offering good remixers for the ep.also they have a presence in alot of magazines that i read and are based in ibiza this summer.


so im kinda confused as to what to do.kinda sick of releasing on labels that dont get any attention and i feel that these two tracks are decent enough to step up to a bigger label than the ones im currently with.

Neurojazz

If they are offering good remixes, have you got that in black and white on the contract? - It sounds like a good bubble to get if you can make sure they actually get the decent remixes and are committed to release them.

seannash

Neurojazz wrote: »

If they are offering good remixes, have you got that in black and white on the contract? - It sounds like a good bubble to get if you can make sure they actually get the decent remixes and are committed to release them.

they havent given me a contract yet as i havent given them a reply.
but yeah there throwing names at me like adam shaw and kim fai for remixes.
they are planning on releasing on beatport and if there not on it by the time they release the ep they say theyll make sure my release goes up on beatport when they get on

Neurojazz

Yeah, well if those names are good for your genre then just make sure you get that promise in black and white with another clause to say if they don't get onto beatport within 6 months or so that they have to release rights back to you fully.

Maybe even ask for a non-exclusive contract and then take it to a label that is on beatport once they get those name mixes sorted.

Stab*City

Good stuff sean.. best of luck whatever you decide.

DamagedTrax

why is not being on beatport a big issue for you? theres plenty of bigger techno labels that wont touch beatport because of their terms. many use trackitdown and junodownload. also some digi distributors wont deal with beatport either.

have a search around and see what DL sites they are on and dont base your decision solely on 1 site.

seannash

DamagedTrax wrote: »

why is not being on beatport a big issue for you? theres plenty of bigger techno labels that wont touch beatport because of their terms. many use trackitdown and junodownload. also some digi distributors wont deal with beatport either.

have a search around and see what DL sites they are on and dont base your decision solely on 1 site.

well the majority of people buy there tracks from beatport.
its pretty obvious that to reach the largest possible audience you should be selling where they purchase most of there material.

thye are planning on releasing on beatport eventually though.

Neurojazz

seannash wrote: »

well the majority of people buy there tracks from beatport.
its pretty obvious that to reach the largest possible audience you should be selling where they purchase most of there material.

thye are planning on releasing on beatport eventually though.

No, iTunes exceeds beatport - by quite a margin also, but would depend on the label selling and how well they advertise their products. It's quite easy to make the sales look great via beatport if you embed the player on the label site etc...

In the past 5 years, (i can only speak for trance/electronica) - iTunes 90% / 10% others (including beatport)

You'd have to ask on forums or speak to a distro to get accurate figures for portal throughput per genre.

Neurojazz

FYI - this includes an album that was selling on beatport - the player was embedded on the site also - there were a few sales in previous months - but nothing brilliant... this shows a typical range of sales.

seannash

hmm as far as im aware beatport has the market share when it comes to dance music sales

Neurojazz

Where did you find that out? - would be interesting to see the difference between genres.

SteveDon

DamagedTrax wrote: »

why is not being on beatport a big issue for you? theres plenty of bigger techno labels that wont touch beatport because of their terms. many use trackitdown and junodownload. also some digi distributors wont deal with beatport either.

have a search around and see what DL sites they are on and dont base your decision solely on 1 site.

Beatport has around 90% of the market share for dj ready dance music releases, read up on this a while back, ill try to find the link

DamagedTrax

SteveDon wrote: »

Beatport has around 90% of the market share for dj ready dance music releases, read up on this a while back, ill try to find the link

not at all.

like neuro says itunes are the big boys followed by beatport and then trackitdown. djdownloads are making headway lately aswell.

anyway, as an artist you're only concern should be releasing music because i can tell you from having BIG releases (vinyl & digital) that theres no money to be made. you'll be lucky if the label breaks even on most releases.

crowdcontrol

I run a label that sells on Beatport along with many other sites. From experience I can say that I do by far the most sales on Beatport. In fact, if we were ever to be dropped (and this can happen pretty easily) we would be in serious trouble. So much so that we could probably finish things up and sign to a bigger label.

Juno sales are usually decent, itunes below average, djdownload is so so.... etc

If a label isn't on Beatport already it may find it difficult to join as they are not currently taking new label applications.

Anyway, thats my 2 cents

crowdcontrol

DamagedTrax wrote: »

not at all.

like neuro says itunes are the big boys followed by beatport and then trackitdown. djdownloads are making headway lately aswell.

anyway, as an artist you're only concern should be releasing music because i can tell you from having BIG releases (vinyl & digital) that theres no money to be made. you'll be lucky if the label breaks even on most releases.

Just to add, this is very true, there is no money in it really. If you make it onto a few hard copy compilations you might see some shillings but otherwise not really. For example, I did 600 copies on a Belgian label and recieved a statement for €18. This didn't meet the minimum amount for payment which is €50 so unless I release more with this label I will never see any money. Not that I'm arsed with the 18 yo yos, but that will give you an idea of the money involved.....

Neurojazz

crowdcontrol wrote: »

I run a label that sells on Beatport along with many other sites. From experience I can say that I do by far the most sales on Beatport. In fact, if we were ever to be dropped (and this can happen pretty easily) we would be in serious trouble. So much so that we could probably finish things up and sign to a bigger label.

Juno sales are usually decent, itunes below average, djdownload is so so.... etc

If a label isn't on Beatport already it may find it difficult to join as they are not currently taking new label applications.

Anyway, thats my 2 cents

What genre? - where do you advertise? - do you have the beatport gui on site?

There seem to be some sites selling more records on different portals - but post a sample page of accounts from your distro (hiding contact info etc...) and show people what sort of genres are selling on different portals?)

I'm only saying this because in 1 year the main act i'm in took about 6k from itunes and about a tenner from beatport.

crowdcontrol

Our genre is lounge/downtempo. I deal direct with all download portals bar itunes so its not as simple as posting my distribution reports. Anyway it's not something I'm entirely comfortable with doing.

seannash

id just like to point out that im not concerned about the money aspect but more so about reaching as many people as possible.

Neurojazz

crowdcontrol wrote: »

Our genre is lounge/downtempo. I deal direct with all download portals bar itunes so its not as simple as posting my distribution reports. Anyway it's not something I'm entirely comfortable with doing.

Can understand that - that's why i said to blank out any contact details

No, worries though - but feel it would help people to really see the nuts and bolts of every process in this side of the industry. A lot of forums just end up with vague and crap information and feel that keeping things open (for those that can/want to contribute in that way) would help those coming through the system what to expect.

Here's an example:

An artist gets signed to a label and they either don't send him accounts - so they'd know from here that these things exist (and from you it's in the form of many portals that requires time to move to a separate spreadsheet/profit loss sheet) and some (like myself) use a single distributer to hit the portals.

Another scenario would be that the artist gets accounts but they are on a single sheet of paper with the single figure 'sales' and doesn't see the actual returns from the distributor minus the costs from the label - this leaves the artist in the cold and having to trust the label isn't burning them.

I only take this angle because of experience - i mean i'm not complaining at all when i can say that i lost 100k+ because of a lack of knowledge about this side of music.

Also, getting onto iTunes is easy to self submit - if you have a problem PM me and i'll help out.

jtsuited

woah woah woah.....for the type of music sean does, beatport absolutely dominates the market. Wouldn't sign with a label that can't get on beatport. Like it's hardly difficult in fairness.

Signing a track with that label is essentially signing something that cuts your target market by 90+%.

Neurojazz

jtsuited wrote: »

woah woah woah.....for the type of music sean does, beatport absolutely dominates the market. Wouldn't sign with a label that can't get on beatport. Like it's hardly difficult in fairness.

Signing a track with that label is essentially signing something that cuts your target market by 90+%.

Ok, lets say this instance is right - what about labels that advertise/utilize different ways of piping traffic to other portals (like djdownload, whatever.com etc...)

And would be great if labels/artists per genre could post some sample accounts to show what's actually happening in different areas.

Proof helps when debating a point like this - i know beatport are a force, but some people find other ways and methods.

crowdcontrol

Cheers Neurojazz, I am locked into a 3 year contract as far as itunes goes. Probably not the best deal either but as it's a new label (just over a year) I'm learning as I go along. I have a lot to learn as there are some areas I know absolutely nothing about.

I could be wrong now but if you buy a track through itunes is it not only playable from itunes or on your ipod? I might be way off there but I have heard DJs say that they use Beatport cause its DRM free.

Just one other thing u mentioned about royalty reports for artists from labels. In the past any royalty reports I have recieved from a few tracks I have signed to another label were just as you described - very vague. Basically a number of units and the royalty due. No indication of the origin of the sales or the label cut. Must say I felt a wee bit shafted as the releases were digital and expenses would have been minimal for the label in question. I worked out I was getting 3 cent per digital unit. I have also heard thats the norm!!

Zascar

crowdcontrol wrote: »

I worked out I was getting 3 cent per digital unit. I have also heard thats the norm!!

Wow that is mad! Is that really all you make?

Can anyone give a rough breakdown of where the money goes out of every $/€ from a tune being sold, would be interesting to see....

Neurojazz

crowdcontrol wrote: »

Cheers Neurojazz, I am locked into a 3 year contract as far as itunes goes. Probably not the best deal either but as it's a new label (just over a year) I'm learning as I go along. I have a lot to learn as there are some areas I know absolutely nothing about.

I could be wrong now but if you buy a track through itunes is it not only playable from itunes or on your ipod? I might be way off there but I have heard DJs say that they use Beatport cause its DRM free.

Just one other thing u mentioned about royalty reports for artists from labels. In the past any royalty reports I have recieved from a few tracks I have signed to another label were just as you described - very vague. Basically a number of units and the royalty due. No indication of the origin of the sales or the label cut. Must say I felt a wee bit shafted as the releases were digital and expenses would have been minimal for the label in question. I worked out I was getting 3 cent per digital unit. I have also heard thats the norm!!

The trick with situations like this can be worked around - but best to move and and deal with them as time passes. The iTunes situation you are in could be down to the contract being 'exclusive' - which should only be done in certain situations - like selling 'world rights' as a territory when the buyer of those rights needs to know that they are the sole distributor of the item - BUT the problem is that every bastard sticks the exclusive clause in to catch those right on the first draft of a contract.

Check the termination rights on that contract and if you can't get out of it then just look forward to that day in 3 years and give it another go with some remix/live/set mixes.

If it fries your head when you look at it, then send to me via PM and i'll let you know if you can terminate them

Neurojazz

Zascar wrote: »

Wow that is mad! Is that really all you make?

Can anyone give a rough breakdown of where the money goes out of every $/€ from a tune being sold, would be interesting to see....

The distro i use pay me direct and i get about 2 thirds of the sale price - i pass on 100% to the artists and only make money on the publishing if they get famous etc...

It's so easy to get a track out to 300 portals... takes me like an hour - all because of a centralized distribution - but get charged that third cut.

crowdcontrol

Thanks for the offer man, I had a read and I'm happy enough to stick with it for the 3 years and then look at it again. Sorry for the delay in my replys, I'm actually out of the country at the moment so just grabbin wifi as I find it

VinylJunkie

This might Help!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SBGENEBhssA

:pac:

Zascar

Neurojazz wrote: »

FYI - this includes an album that was selling on beatport - the player was embedded on the site also - there were a few sales in previous months - but nothing brilliant... this shows a typical range of sales.

Wow. 1314 sales, and you made €477! That's 35 cent per sale, that's madness!
Where does the rest of it go? You'd have to sell an absolute sh!t loads of records to make any sort of decent money.

Kinda relieves of any any guilt for any tracks I obtained without paying for them. I'd almost prefer to download all my tracks illegally and send the artists I like a few Euro's in the post!