thatcher

ynotdu

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XUvQzgxTxmE

Manic Moran

ynotdu wrote: »

The Belgrano was a rust-bucket that was heading AWAY from the exclusion zone when sank.

And, as I have demonstrated previously in greater detail, "So what!?"

Anyway, even if it was a rust-bucket it was still a rust-bucket with 6" guns and anti-ship missiles.

,the Argentine Navy leader refused to order his navy to sea

How do you think all those Argentinians landed on the Falklands in April? They swam? Indeed, what was Belgrano doing at sea at the time she was sunk? Disobeying orders to stay in port?

the Argie soldiers were defeated and demoralised even before the short ground war began.

The people who fought at Goose Green may have a different point of view. There were indeed many demoralised Argentinians, but enough still had a fair bit of fight in them. It was hardly a walkover.

The UK has freely admitted that they were almost out of ammunition when the white flag was spotted over port stanley.

Just as well they won, then. Espeically if the Argentines were so demoralised that they didn't put up a fight. I guess the British were just firing off all their ammo for Ss and Gs?

the island close to Argentina(I am not going to name it as even doing that,would be construed as being on one side or another!)You&others claim it is under the Queens protectrate,well SURE simple reason is over the course of history the British empire *planted* people loyal to the crown in stategic areas all around the globe!nearest example being the Scots planted in Ulster(they were used as well)for military reasons.

As I said, the history of the Falklands/Malvinas is a bit bizarre. After a little dispute between Spain and Britain, it ended up under Spanish, then Argentine control for a while. Until the Argentinians utterly ballsed it up, it turned into a relatively lawless place, and the Americans then came along, kicked everyone off the islands and declared them free of all government. Only then did the Brits make a serious claim on the place..

NTM

ynotdu

Manic Moran,it took 6-8 weeks for the RN vessals to arriave,by that time even the Argies saw Galtieri was a nut.Yes the Argie troops got there by ship but quite sensibly the marine commander(Thatcher having called the bluff)had them all back in dock,except for the rust bucket Belgrano which was sank well outside the exclusion zone,the same exclusion zone the UK had declared.

The sad loss of life on the UK side were ALL by warplanes.

Lest You have any other ideas one of My hero,s is the guy who had his face burnt off who is regularly on British TV.I would not have the guts to show my face again,He is a *profile* in courage.

Another guy I really respect is Mr Parry who.s son was MURDERED by the IRA,Yet He was able to distinguish the murderers from the Nation they were born on.

The crew of the Belgrano were murdered!

You say just as well Yous *WON* then.

Exactly what was won?Fatherless homes in UK&Argentina not to mention the many who are still suffering post traumatic stress disorder ever since.
Hollow shallow victories with no real winners except the ones who never left an office but got the credit in obe,mbe,BARONESS:eek: and a few sheep farmers.

midlandsmissus

Dudess wrote: »

Some of those points I agree with (some of them I hugely disagree with though) but I still fail to see how someone who was mates with General Pinochet could be a "hero".

Well I was referring more to "get well soon Maggie, come over and fix our country" which didn't seem to have any point. She hurt a LOT of people - acting as if that's not a reality, and yes, particularly coming from Irish people (she hated the Irish), is fairly galling really. It's amazing what people have forgotten in this country, and how quickly they've forgotten - no doubt aided and abetted by the "boom".

Hi Dudess,

Just wondering where are you getting that she hated the Irish? Didn't she for the first time sign an agreement with the republic of Ireland giving them an advisory role on Northern Ireland?

And as for the hunger strikers,well.....I lived in deep catholic northern Ireland for a year, and you might be surprised but.... the view from there is that it was a stupid thing to do and they achieved nothing by starving themselves to death. One lad said (pretending to talk to Bobby Sands while in the pub) 'You shouldn't have starved yourself to death like a fecking ejit should ya!'.

Of course if anyone from outside said it they'd probably kill ya!:D

But anyway where else did she hate the Irish?

Poccington

ynotdu wrote: »

The sad loss of life on the UK side were ALL by warplanes.


The crew of the Belgrano were murdered!

All by warplanes? So Lt. Colonel Herbert Jones, Comanding Officer of 2 Para at the time of the Falklands War wasn't awarded the Victoria Cross for charging enemy positions at the Battle of Goose Green? Along with the other 16 British that died at Goose Green?

The attack on the Belgrano was completely legitimate, even the captain of the Belgrano said it was a legitimate attack.

Manic Moran

ynotdu wrote: »

Manic Moran,it took 6-8 weeks for the RN vessals to arriave,by that time even the Argies saw Galtieri was a nut.Yes the Argie troops got there by ship but quite sensibly the marine commander(Thatcher having called the bluff)had them all back in dock,except for the rust bucket Belgrano which was sank well outside the exclusion zone,the same exclusion zone the UK had declared.

Helpful hint: You want to be very careful arguing Falklands War facts with me. I've made studying it a bit of a hobby, although in fairness I don't have my references handy.

For the record, the British Forces gave official notice to the Argentine forces on the Falklands that Her Majesty's Government was not amused by Galtieri's antics exactly 30 days after the Argentine invasion. South Georgia was recaptured after three weeks, two days, and the British had advertised the presence of the nuclear subs about a week prior to that.

Most of the Marines were withdrawn and replaced by Army troops because the job of Marines is generally storming beaches from landing craft, not occupation and defence duties. The warships (Except for two submarines in disrepair, one sunk by the British, and a corvette heavily damaged after taking South Georgia) were all out and about looking for the British until Belgrano was sunk, at which point they (sensibly) turned around and went home, barring a couple of transports and cutters.

The TEZ applied to all ships and vessels of all countries. Basically it was a notification that "You really don't want to be in the area." The British had formally reminded the Argentines on 23APR that all Argentine vessels and aircraft were considered fair game no matter where they were, a situation which the Argentines (apart from their wartime Public Affairs office after Belgrano was sunk) had no issues with. Neither the TEZ nor the ship's course any bearing on the legality of the sinking.

The sad loss of life on the UK side were ALL by warplanes.

Right. The machineguns that LCOL Jones and SGT McKay charged into to be awarded their (posthumous) Victoria Crosses were mounted on Pucaras, were they? How to explain the seventeen British KIA at Goose Green, or the ten at Tumbledown? There's also the ground fire which shot down several helicopters and Sea Harriers...

Lest You have any other ideas one of My hero,s is the guy who had his face burnt off who is regularly on British TV.I would not have the guts to show my face again,He is a *profile* in courage.

Guardsman Simon Weston, I believe you're referring to. He actually met the A-4 pilot a few years later.

The crew of the Belgrano were murdered!

They were military personnel killed in the line of duty in a time of war. The distinction may be moot to the familes of those killed, but in terms of the legal status, there's a world of difference.

You say just as well Yous *WON* then.

"yous"? I was referring to "the British". I'm not British.

Exactly what was won?

The civilians living on the islands retained the right to decide for themselves which government they wanted to be under in their homes. That's a fairly important matter of principle.

and a few sheep farmers.

Oh, I see. Sheep farmers don't count. Go down to your local rural Wicklow pub and proudly proclaim "If you're only a sheep farmer, you don't deserve your civil rights. Don't bother voting. Shut up, and do what you're told." I recommend calling the ambulance in advance.

NTM

ynotdu

Poccington wrote: »

All by warplanes? So Lt. Colonel Herbert Jones, Comanding Officer of 2 Para at the time of the Falklands War wasn't awarded the Victoria Cross for charging enemy positions at the Battle of Goose Green? Along with the other 16 British that died at Goose Green?

The attack on the Belgrano was completely legitimate, even the captain of the Belgrano said it was a legitimate attack.

The ALL part was an oversimplification to emphasise the point that the Argie navy played almost no part in the actual fighting.

Mea culpa,I should have checked the facts more closely.
Regards

humberklog

ynotdu wrote: »

The ALL part was an oversimplification to emphasise the point that the Argie navy played almost no part in the actual fighting.

Mea culpa,I should have checked the facts more closely.
Regards

Your post no.244 ended up quite like the Belgrano after MM homed in on it.

ynotdu

Hi manic moran,I want to check out the timeline of the whole thing before making any substantial reply.I checked Your profile and see You are in Afghanistan and in the Military,so lest I forget whatever our* diffriences* so far, to use the Irish saying "may God keep You safely in the palm of his hands"(if there is a god,but thats another thread lol)


You know by Me calling them sheepfarmers I meant they were loyal to the crown because they were planted there as an excuse for Britania to keep its spheres of influnce and *forever*Rule the waves.I dont believe it was out of concern for the Islanders that Maggie went to war.It was the loss of face and the unwillingness to accept that the sun had indeed sank on the Empire that led the whole irrational episode,as you have said the Island had a very chequered past as regards what nation *owned* it!
lets keep this a discussion/debate/learning curve,not turn into a slanging match?

p.s ya might bump into one of two of my cousins over there,My aunt lives in UK,two of her sons joined the army,one was in Iraq,other on duty in Afghanistan at present.

Be as happy as you can and stay safe:)

ynotdu

humberklog wrote: »

Your post no.244 ended up quite like the Belgrano after MM homed in on it.

Remind Me what My post number.244? as I am not sad enough to keep notes on these things?

are You actually celebrating the the guys who died on the Belgrano or something,wow with moderating like that..........

humberklog

ynotdu wrote: »

Remind Me what My post number.244? as I am not sad enough to keep notes on these things?

are You actually celebrating the the guys who died on the Belgrano or something,wow with moderating like that..........

The post no. is in the top right of each post. No counting required.
No I'm not celebrating anything so no need for you to ask a question answer it for yourself with an assumption and insinuate a remark (all in one sentence).
I'm not a Mod on this forum.
This is after hours.

ynotdu

humberklog wrote: »

The post no. is in the top right of each post. No counting required.
No I'm not celebrating anything so no need for you to ask a question answer it for yourself with an assumption and insinuate a remark (all in one sentence).
I'm not a Mod on this forum.
This is after hours.

fair enough humberklog,I thought a Mod from ANY forum could if nescesary moderate another forum.
cheers m8!

humberklog

ynotdu wrote: »

fair enough humberklog,I thought a Mod from ANY forum could if nescesary moderate another forum.
cheers m8!

No worries and really there was no offence meant in my post about your post. Just an After Hours smart alec remark.

ynotdu

Hi have checked out wikipedias page on the war and found MANY surprises(I would not normally go by wikipedia alone as a source,but the whole article was unchallenged and well sourced by realiable links)I was going to just quote from it but its too complex and long or I would have to write a novel !:)

Astonished to learn that 255 UK troops lost their lives(thought it was much lower)
454 Argentines.
unless Wiki is wrong the Belgrano WAS indeed sunk Legally,so my apologies for accepting propaganda that had been preaced to me and lazily not checking the facts!

The last update for suicide rates by servicemen after the war on wiki is:
Argentine=454
UK=264
may they R.I.P.
to other members who challenged me on this thread I would like to say thanks(I see it as a strenth to listen to others,not a weakness)the link to the wiki page below.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Falklands_war#Lead-up_to_the_conflict

ynotdu

wanted a tribute song to ALL soldiers,phew there was none except this I could find that simply is a prayer for ALL who are fighting for what they believe.no saying who is right or wrong,or expousing propaganda or hate,found this

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=juSJKW8sWOI

The Al Lad

LOL at Irish people applauding the iron butcher lady

horrible auld cnut really hope she suffers and dies screaming like a stuck pig with swine flu, aids and hysterical blindness

johnnyskeleton

Arthur Scargill must be thinking "Finally".

dooferoaks wrote: »

She was, IMO, a disaster for the UK. The social housing stock began its rapid decline under her leadership meaning families now put up in B and B's.

She also encouraged people in social housing to buy their own homes when they couldn't really afford it, thus leading to a property bubble which eventually collapsed.

An Fear Aniar

The Al Lad wrote: »

LOL at Irish people applauding the iron butcher lady

That's how they managed to rule Ireland for so long.

.

dlofnep

A long painful death if you please!

arybvtcw0eolkf

dlofnep wrote: »

A long painful death if you please!

And be revived, to start the process over again

.

tbh

dlofnep wrote: »

A long painful death if you please!

Wilson Odd Minor wrote: »

And be revived, to start the process over again

.

reflects poorly on you lads, whoever you're talking about.

dlofnep

tbh wrote: »

reflects poorly on you lads, whoever you're talking about.

Calm down Ted, we're just discussing the delight one might encounter at the thought of the most vile cúnt this side of the Atlantic suffering unfathomable amounts of pain.

If you thought we were here to impress you, you thought wrong!

ejmaztec

News just in:

In view of the number of people expressing a desire to dance on Margaret Thatcher's grave, she has decided to be buried at sea.

dlofnep

ejmaztec wrote: »

News just in:

In view of the number of people expressing a desire to dance on Margaret Thatcher's grave, she has decided to be buried at sea.

We can always just piss into the sea. I have a boat!

FlutterinBantam

What you have there Teebs, is jerks with tunnel vision.

Weedy challenged types who can only see down the long narrow pipe their outlook takes them.

You will always have those dullards, people with axes to grind,insular outlook, with no question of taking a broader view.

These slatelifes only look at life from one aspect only, their own warped populist platform.

Let's not give them the credit for the intelligence to see things from the other point of view, the enemies outlook as it were.

People like that blight good debate and discourse, I would advise you to ignore them as inconsequential and immaterial.

Basically they have nothing to contribute to a balanced discussion.

ejmaztec

dlofnep wrote: »

We can always just piss into the sea. I have a boat!

Well, if it's any consolation, I would estimate that at least forty million people in the UK are getting their party hats out of mothballs. There's nothing like mutual hatred to bring nations together.

FlutterinBantam

Indeed, they will all crawl out of their council houses, and abuse the corner shop owners ,who came to Britain with nothing, and with hard work and self sacrifice, built themselves up to enjoy a good living, serving tossers who wouldn't lift a hand to help themselves,except to sign for state benefits.

The joke is on those cnunts:D:D

Do you get it now:D

arybvtcw0eolkf

dlofnep wrote: »

Calm down Ted, we're just discussing the delight one might encounter at the thought of the most vile cúnt this side of the Atlantic suffering unfathomable amounts of pain.

If you thought we were here to impress you, you thought wrong!

Ouch.

.

FlutterinBantam

dlofnep wrote: »

Calm down Ted, we're just discussing the delight one might encounter at the thought of the most vile cúnt this side of the Atlantic suffering unfathomable amounts of pain.

If you thought we were here to impress you, you thought wrong!

I think you do TBH a bit of a disservice there pal.

You and your ilk are not impressing anyone around here.

Closed mindedness and bigoted posting never impressed anyone of any consequence;)

dlofnep

You're quirky! I like you.