Legal Party Pills

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ScumLord wrote: »

Those symbols mean nothing. I remember in my day double Cherrys where the best for a while, then you'd see them again maybe a year later and their completely different. After 6 months your best off ignoring the symbols that where good as they've probably been selling off crap ones on the reputation of that symbol.

to an extent yeah, a lot of it is trial and error it would be naive to think otherwise, but you can generally tell if there's a good batch still doing the rounds through word of mouth in clubs.

ScumLord

Quentin Damp Second wrote: »

to an extent yeah, a lot of it is trial and error it would be naive to think otherwise, but you can generally tell if there's a good batch still doing the rounds through word of mouth in clubs.

True you'd have to know someone that's tried them but it's still no guarantee. Crystallized mdma is your best bet for quality and cleanness. Pills will always have some muck put through them.

30txsbzmcu2k9w

ScumLord wrote: »

True you'd have to know someone that's tried them but it's still no guarantee. Crystallized mdma is your best bet for quality and cleanness. Pills will always have some muck put through them.

Agreed, too expensive though!

Snowie

sneakerfreak wrote: »

Which ones?The BZP ones?

Id dunno it was a while ago memoreys a bit foggy, i just remember being told they where london underground... sorry

Graham_B18C

ScumLord wrote: »

True you'd have to know someone that's tried them but it's still no guarantee. Crystallized mdma is your best bet for quality and cleanness. Pills will always have some muck put through them.

Didn't know that it was slightly available in Ireland. Always at it in skins!

Snowie

ScumLord wrote: »

Crystallized mdma is your best bet for quality and cleanness. Pills will always have some muck put through them.

That stuff is just blowing in a good way..

Grahamo999 wrote: »

Didn't know that it was slightly available in Ireland. Always at it in skins!

anything is available if you know the right people! I'm not trying to come across as a pretentious wanker but, its a fact its not what you know its who you no....

Pat Sheen

ScumLord wrote: »

Crystallized mdma is your best bet for quality and cleanness. Pills will always have some muck put through them.

Doesn't matter if it's powder or pills, you have no idea what's really in it. How could you unless you happen to have a GC/MS machine knocking about your garage. Thats one of the more despicable practises that the legal pill makers have copied from the illegal ones, zero transparency.

sneakerfreak

ScumLord wrote: »

True you'd have to know someone that's tried them but it's still no guarantee. Crystallized mdma is your best bet for quality and cleanness. Pills will always have some muck put through them.

Yes.

Quentin Damp Second wrote: »

Agreed, too expensive though!

You are talking about your health here but then again I have been known to frequent McDonalds on occasion

Snow-Monkey wrote: »

Id dunno it was a while ago memoreys a bit foggy, i just remember being told they where london underground... sorry

No probs mate,London Underground now provide a very nice range of alternatives to BZP.

ScumLord

Grahamo999 wrote: »

Didn't know that it was slightly available in Ireland. Always at it in skins!

I actually haven't had a pill in years. I've only come across mdma lately, I won't take pills though and that known so I'm only ever offered the other stuff. It's rare enough maybe only coming around once every month or two but it's better that way.

Snowie

sneakerfreak wrote: »

No probs mate,London Underground now provide a very nice range of alternatives to BZP.

I think Il try not to be at that any more would love to but....... I haven't taken any drugs in 10 months which is good going for me and I would like to keep it that way tho I miss it

sneakerfreak

Pat Sheen wrote: »

Doesn't matter if it's powder or pills, you have no idea what's really in it. How could you unless you happen to have a GC/MS machine knocking about your garage. Thats one of the more despicable practises that the legal pill makers have copied from the illegal ones, zero transparency.

The transparency issue is a serious one,I take it you work for the IMB or another government body as you seem to know what you are talking about.The problem with transparency is that as soon as its known what the product contains it is banned.The problem with non-transparency is that someone with an allergy may purchase something not knowing the correct ingredients of the product.

Snow-Monkey wrote: »

I think Il try not to be at that any more would love to but....... I haven't taken any drugs in 10 months which is good going for me and I would like to keep it that way tho I miss it

Good for you mate wasnt meaning to encourage you to take anything.

MIN2511

My housemate bought them before they were banned, and she and 3 girls took them one night... I swear, i have never seen paranoria at it's worst! They were paranoid, hyper and crazy! It was good buzz watching them... The were zoned out! Couldn't sleep etc, they swore never to go near them again... lol

sneakerfreak

MIN2511 wrote: »

My housemate bought them before they were banned, and she and 3 girls took them one night... I swear, i have never seen paranoria at it's worst! They were paranoid, hyper and crazy! It was good buzz watching them... The were zoned out! Couldn't sleep etc, they swore never to go near them again... lol

Another problem was that they were marketed as herbal products when in fact they were semi-synthetic or totally chemical,most people believed that they were mild as they were 'herbal' and legal and took way too much resulting in intense and often negative experiences.Most people I saw taking them wouldnt even read the instructions on dosage and health warnings on the packet and just swallowed whatever they felt like was the right dose.The same people would read the back of a pack of nurofen with great care (as they should,it contains codeine an addictive opiate) but didnt give a toss about what the party pills contained.

JC 2K3

Wertz wrote: »

That's a fair point, god knows I've taken some pills over the years that were duds, sub-par or simply something other than E...had they been the only pills I'd ever taken I'd be slating ecstasy as being sh*te.
But then again, the one time I do take party pill (they were a capsule with a clear end and a red end with brown granular stuff inside) I end up experiencing all the crap I'd read about them beforehand and being even sicker than I thought possible.

What's "them"?

BZP?
TMFPP?
MeOPP?
MCPP?
PFPP?
Geranamine?
Methylone?
Mephedrone?
Methicathinone?
Morning Glory Extract?
Kratom Extract?

All of the above, and many more besides, are contained in so called "Party Pills". BZP was the most prevalent for a very long time, and gave pretty bad side effects, but that doesn't mean every legal high or every party pill is crap.

Wertz wrote: »

Maybe there are good ones out there...but again I have to come back to the simple fact that if the substances they contained were really any good, they'd be on the scheduled drug list (yes I know BZP is on it now).

What makes you think that there mightn't be another really good drug out there that hasn't been scheduled because it either hasn't been synthesised yet or has yet to be used recreationally?

Generally, drugs have to get popular recreationally before they get scheduled.

Wertz wrote: »

As for the conmparison between E and party pills? Valid IMO, irregardless of their differing mechanisms of action. The rise of legal highs in pill form come from a marketplace demand for designer highs that also didn't get people in trouble with the law. These things are marketed as being a substitute for E's, speed, acid, whatever...something that (IME) they failed to do, so the comparison stands.

You can compare E to legal highs, but you can't slate all legal highs just because some company markets one particular chemical as an E alternative and it's crap.

Snowie

sneakerfreak wrote: »

Good for you mate wasnt meaning to encourage you to take anything.

I know man

Lia_lia

Ha, just buy any "ecstasy" pills around at the moment and you'll be getting the same thing for a cheaper price. (but don't really :P )

Snowie

Lia_lia wrote: »

Ha, just buy any "ecstasy" pills around at the moment and you'll be getting the same thing for a cheaper price. (but don't really :P )

Drugs are bad mkay

Wertz

JC 2K3 wrote: »

What's "them"?

BZP?
TMFPP?
MeOPP?
MCPP?
PFPP?
Geranamine?
Methylone?
Mephedrone?
Methicathinone?
Morning Glory Extract?
Kratom Extract?

All of the above, and many more besides, are contained in so called "Party Pills". BZP was the most prevalent for a very long time, and gave pretty bad side effects, but that doesn't mean every legal high or every party pill is crap.


What makes you think that there mightn't be another really good drug out there that hasn't been scheduled because it either hasn't been synthesised yet or has yet to be used recreationally?

Generally, drugs have to get popular recreationally before they get scheduled.


You can compare E to legal highs, but you can't slate all legal highs just because some company markets one particular chemical as an E alternative and it's crap.

"Them" = Party pills I'd read about. A generalisation obviously, since like you say there's lots of different types and ingredients.
I don't know a brand...I was handed it and necked it. I was surprised at the results or lack thereof and was even more surprised when I was still staring at the ceiling at 10 the next morning wondering where it all went wrong.

I've already made the points you're slating me for; I've formed a broad opinion on something through a singular experience. That's not very fair, but it's consistent with the anecdotal evidence of many users from both these forums and out in the wider world.

I'm sure there's other substances out there that are known only to a few (or no-one),and that have never been banned or criminalised - but the chance of finding them in a mass produced street legal tablet? Probably a lot less likely...and becoming less and less likely as time goes on.

Like I said, I criticise based on limited personal experience of legal "party pills" much in the same way as many will condemn ecstasy as being this horrible killer drug etc etc, which going by my own personal expereince isn't true...

Joycey

sneakerfreak wrote: »

Surely if you can fly you can take off from the ground.

Haha. Priceless

drunkmonkey

Wertz wrote: »

I don't know a brand

Here's one for you, Lime Fantasy plant feeder (across from dakota)....no bzp, no climbing the walls the next day... couldn't recommend them more, my mates said they were great;)

sneakerfreak

Just to let you all know that discussing these products and their possible ingredients on open public forums like this is the quickest way of getting them scheduled.

If you like your legals then I suggest discussing them on other forums or in PMs.

Overheal

sneakerfreak wrote: »

Just to let you all know that discussing these products and their possible ingredients on open public forums like this is the quickest way of getting them scheduled.

Its true. I went off and mentioned a mail order site once - not too long after, An Post stepped up their game. Damn them.

Graham_B18C

Its gas that a question about herbal pills escalated into a good oul chat about drugs of all sorts!

MIN2511

sneakerfreak wrote: »

Another problem was that they were marketed as herbal products when in fact they were semi-synthetic or totally chemical,most people believed that they were mild as they were 'herbal' and legal and took way too much resulting in intense and often negative experiences.Most people I saw taking them wouldnt even read the instructions on dosage and health warnings on the packet and just swallowed whatever they felt like was the right dose.The same people would read the back of a pack of nurofen with great care (as they should,it contains codeine an addictive opiate) but didnt give a toss about what the party pills contained.

Very true..... All they wanted was to get high, they didn't read the small print before...

It was gas though

Graham_B18C

http://www.nirvanaheadshop.com/review/product/list/id/862/category/7/

These seem to be getting good reviews

dylano_k

Iv done them a couple of times at festivals and weekends away, only bad thing about them is the dry(cotton)mouth you get for hours!! good things are the buzz is funny and that sex last for ages but ya cant BYL and if you read the back it says "do not take if intending on sleeping within the next 8 hours"...it also says eating banana's increases the buzz....never tried that one though

Prof.Badass

Grahamo999 wrote: »

http://www.nirvanaheadshop.com/review/product/list/id/862/category/7/

These seem to be getting good reviews

The first review gives out about them. For an online headshop review this is extremely rare (they're usually always positive), but that's probably because that particular pill has been getting a lot of complaints. There's forums out there where you can get unbiased information, only a fool would trust the reviews on a commercial site (especially in an unregulated industry).

London Undeground doves would be a better bet from what i've been told.

It's sad that they can't just sell proper mdma pills. At least we know how dangerous they are.
It's not like these pills are destroying the fabric of society, and apparently some of them are not that far off mdma itself.

In large part due to the internet, new drugs with recreational potential are being discovered faster than ever before. I honestly can't see the government catching up, especially as society's attitude towards drugs becomes more rational.

Even my staunch prohibitionist friends don't seem to have much of a problem with legal pills. If we could isolate a few of the safe ones and regulate the industry properly, i see no reason for a ban. With a bit of luck- depending on future discoveries) we may be able to destroy prohibition and it's ill effects without having to legalise currently illegal drugs.

Pat Sheen

sneakerfreak wrote: »

Just to let you all know that discussing these products and their possible ingredients on open public forums like this is the quickest way of getting them scheduled.

Like I said already Irish law is a cut and paste of UK law. Where they go we follow, almost totally unscrutinized. When shrooms went in the UK they went here months later. Headshops brought them to the attention of the wider public and as a consequence the legislators. The UK is already on the case. The ACMD is about to report to the UK government anytime now on novel legal drugs and one of that panel, Dr. Les King, knows this new ground inside out. There are a couple of videos floating around of interviews with him. bk's and jwh's are f*cked and were from the moment the the headshops got their mitts on them.

Prof.Badass

Pat Sheen wrote: »

Like I said already Irish law is a cut and paste of UK law. Where they go we follow, almost totally unscrutinized. When shrooms went in the UK they went here months later. Headshops brought them to the attention of the wider public and as a consequence the legislators. The UK is already on the case. The ACMD is about to report to the UK government anytime now on novel legal drugs and one of that panel, Dr. Les King, knows this new ground inside out. There are a couple of videos floating around of interviews with him. bk's and jwh's are f*cked and were from the moment the the headshops got their mitts on them.

It would be wise of the headshops to start putting ingredients and dosages back on the packs. This would at least allow for some sort of harm reduction argument with which to fight a ban (afterall bzp stayed legal here for a long time after it was made illegal in the uk). I don't see how they'd expect to avoid a ban with their current carry on.

Pat Sheen

Do they even know what they are selling, that's the question? I remember hearing one headshop owner some time back saying the BZP pills were based on black pepper extract! I don't think they give a sh!t, tbh. I hope I'm wrong.

sneakerfreak

Pat Sheen wrote: »

Do they even know what they are selling, that's the question? I remember hearing one headshop owner some time back saying the BZP pills were based on black pepper extract! I don't think they give a sh!t, tbh. I hope I'm wrong.

Unfortunately many of the headshops dont vet staff and employ people who know what they are talking about,personally I find that disturbing.I do however know lads employed in these shops who are very honest and well informed.I have witnessed lads turn away customers when they said they werent sure they wanted to take something saying "come back if your sure but dont take it if your not" which I thought was appropriate and also informing people that if they took BZP they better not have work the next day and be prepared to be awake for a long time and possibly into the next day and feel quite rough.

These guys get return custom because of their honesty.

g5fd6ow0hseima

sneakerfreak wrote: »

Just to let you all know that discussing these products and their possible ingredients on open public forums like this is the quickest way of getting them scheduled.

If you like your legals then I suggest discussing them on other forums or in PMs.

I hope they get scheduled to be honest, I dont get the mindframe of someone who wont take a bit of MDMA but will purchase some pill which contains ingredients that nobody knows anything about, not the consequences, side effects etc.... Ive seen people awful ****ed from them, couldnt eat, sleep or drink for roughly 2 days!

I've taken 1 or 2 of them, ok, but im not a fan of my heart doing up on 160 bpm for about 6 hours, albeit with no psycoactive qualities either - and the next day, well, id take an appaling hangover anyday over the hardship of those

sneakerfreak

Jared Shaggy Azure wrote: »

I hope they get scheduled to be honest, I dont get the mindframe of someone who wont take a bit of MDMA but will purchase some pill which contains ingredients that nobody knows anything about, not the consequences, side effects etc.... Ive seen people awful ****ed from them, couldnt eat, sleep or drink for roughly 2 days!

I've taken 1 or 2 of them, ok, but im not a fan of my heart doing up on 160 bpm for about 6 hours, albeit with no psycoactive qualities either - and the next day, well, id take an appaling hangover anyday over the hardship of those

you should keep up with current events,they are greatly improved

Pat Sheen

sneakerfreak wrote: »

These guys get return custom because of their honesty.

Yeah, but the owner of a headshop stating BZP is an extract of black pepper, on national radio, is either someone with a ****ed up moral compass or someone who is seriously misinformed. Either way, it isn't a good situation. At least the research chemical vendors, the genuine ones, are up front about what they're selling.

Snowie

hence why every chef I know me included is adicted to black pepper ?

g5fd6ow0hseima

sneakerfreak wrote: »

you should keep up with current events,they are greatly improved

Ya?

Well, this was the last bank holiday weekend. And how are they improved? They've banned the ones which were said to be best, Fast Tracks im sure they were called.

sneakerfreak

Jared Shaggy Azure wrote: »

Ya?

Well, this was the last bank holiday weekend. And how are they improved? They've banned the ones which were said to be best, Fast Tracks im sure they were called.

Fast Lanes came out with BZP first,now they are available non-BZP and they are terrible.Its trial and error really so go to legal highs forums where they are discussed and you will quickly see which products you should consider buying and which to avoid.

Also just cause you dont like them doesnt mean they should be scheduled.

JC 2K3

Jared Shaggy Azure wrote: »

I hope they get scheduled to be honest

Hope what gets scheduled?

JimmyCrackCorn!

Id be wary of any substance be it from a health food store or otherwise "herbal high" that has not been trialled or had a long long history where side effects are known.

There essentially un-licensed pharmaceuticals sold with the disclaimer of if anything goes wrong its not our fault.

Go educate yourself and make your own decisions.

Deccydoo

Do not go there! We got a gram of snow from [] head shop [] for Slane. We split it into 8 with a little bit left which some unlucky punter and his girlfriend got. There was 3 of us to begin with so we had 1 each and it was ok. We met another person up there and gave him 2 and we had our other 1. That was Saturday nite before 10 0 clock. It's now 13.00 on Monday and still no sleep and the what I can only imagine is the rats. Like I said DONT GO THERE

markesmith

Deccydoo wrote: »

That was Saturday nite before 10 0 clock. It's now 13.00 on Monday and still no sleep and the what I can only imagine is the rats. Like I said DONT GO THERE

:eek:

Pace2008

Pat Sheen wrote: »

Yeah, but the owner of a headshop stating BZP is an extract of black pepper, on national radio, is either someone with a ****ed up moral compass or someone who is seriously misinformed.

He was telling a half truth. BZP is derived from an extract of pepper in the same way as MDMA is derived from safrole. It's a still a semi-synthetic chemical though, and selling it as a 'herbal' product is blatantly misleading advertising.

sneakerfreak wrote: »

Also just cause you dont like them doesnt mean they should be scheduled.

It's always worrying when the government bans a product out of misguided morality rather than adequate research, but in this case I'm glad since it may improve the chances of actual MDMA pills reappearing on the market.

drunkmonkey

Pace2008 wrote: »

the same way as MDMA is derived from safrole. .

I thought the buzz came from Sacred blue Lily of the Nile?

Pat Sheen

Pace2008 wrote: »

He was telling a half truth. BZP is derived from an extract of pepper in the same way as MDMA is derived from safrole. It's a still a semi-synthetic chemical though, and selling it as a 'herbal' product is blatantly misleading advertising.



It's always worrying when the government bans a product out of misguided morality rather than adequate research, but in this case I'm glad since it may improve the chances of actual MDMA pills reappearing on the market.

No he was either deliberately misleading or simply had no clue what he was talking about, as are you. Piperine (pepper extract) and 1-benzylpiperazine aren't remotely connected. And I don't think they know what's in the new ones either. Probably various beta-keto's. But they can be bought pure and you know what you're getting and they're cheaper. Unfortunately I think it's more likely you will find bzp & friends on the black market now.

Prof.Badass

Some head-shop guy told me that the cactus i was buying did not contain any mescaline but if i cooked it it would turn into mescaline :pac:.

That being said, not all in the industry are that clueless, and deliberate misleading is quite common (even if it is more on the producer side of things).

For example, take a look at this page from the organic worx website (they're the guys who make "smoke").

http://organicworx.eu/OW_inside_v0.96.html

It's a pity, because with even a small amount of regulation would make a massive difference (for example if all the headshops decided to analyse each product and educate the customers about the ingredients and the effects of said product).

Otherwise we're just gonna see these substances banned, new (possibly more dangerous) substances coming in and the cycle will repeat itself over and over.

g5fd6ow0hseima

JC 2K3 wrote: »

Hope what gets scheduled?

Legal 'party' pills,

JC 2K3

What drug though? You can't just schedule party pills. "Party pills" is a catch all term for any legal high sold in pill form.

If you think every drug in any party pill available is crap, or that any legal drug is crap, then you're seriously misinformed....

Why schedule them as opposed to regulating them?

rantyface

I used to like BZP. Don't feel like it anymore, but it was fun. You have to take it early in the evening or you won't sleep. It usually keeps you awake for 10 hours, and then you'll only sleep if you are really comfy and in a quiet place.

Sometimes I didn't need to sleep, I stayed awake for days and didn't need to eat or sleep. I'd say it's fairly unhealthy. It made me lose a lot of weight very quickly. It's also not a euphoriant at all, it just gives you too much energy, so if you're in a crappy mood you'll stay in a crappy mood.

I think it's good if you take about half the recommended dose. It's very basic, so it'll stop you digesting your food properly. Take it on a completely empty stomach. The more water you drink, the better it works.

I don't know what's available nowadays. BZP has been banned afaik.