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Is it risky for the "yes" side putting celebrities out there?

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    #32
    netron
    Closed Accounts Posts: 225 ✭✭netron


    P. Breathnach wrote: »
    Given that there are many people who have not read the treaty, and who very obviously do not understand it, urging us to vote no, it seems you should have a dilemma.

    there is no dilemma. why would you sign up to a legal contract that you cannot understand?


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    #33
    anonymous_joe
    Registered Users Posts: 9,255 ✭✭✭anonymous_joe


    Robbie Keane will regret this when he's conscripted into the EU Army while babies get aborted.

    Edit: Seriously though, an insult to the electorate?

    The other side lied! How is this an insult?


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    #34
    anonymous_joe
    Registered Users Posts: 9,255 ✭✭✭anonymous_joe


    netron wrote: »
    there is no dilemma. why would you sign up to a legal contract that you cannot understand?

    Because I trust the people who advise me?


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    #35
    O'Morris
    Closed Accounts Posts: 619 ✭✭✭O'Morris


    anonymous_joe wrote: »
    The other side lied! How is this an insult?

    Can you give an example of something the no side lied about?


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    #36
    P. Breathnach
    Registered Users Posts: 12,089 ✭✭✭✭P. Breathnach


    O'Morris wrote: »
    Can you give an example of something the no side lied about?

    Losing "our" Commissioner.


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    #37
    PopeBuckfastXVI
    Registered Users Posts: 5,155 ✭✭✭PopeBuckfastXVI


    O'Morris wrote: »
    Can you give an example of something the no side lied about?

    Most of this:
    http://www.lisbonvote.com/


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    #38
    partholon
    Closed Accounts Posts: 198 ✭✭partholon


    O'Morris wrote: »
    Instead of celebrities, the yes side should make an effort to get some of the high-profile economists on their side. If someone like David McWilliams or Moore McDowell came out firmly behind the treaty and gave the economy as the reason for their support then that would do far greater damage to the no side than anything else.

    The most effective thing the Ireland for Europe people could do would be to write a short four or five line statement laying out clearly why it's so important for Ireland's economy that we vote yes in the second referendum. All they would need to do is get a half-dozen of the leading economists in the country (excluding George Lee) to sign the statement and then publish it as a full page advertisement in the main newspapers. If they did that the yes side could just sit back and donate the rest of their campaign budget to charity.

    ya see theres just ONE problem with this.

    there IS no economic reason to vote for lisbon. thats not what the thing is about. about the only economic/business element you can possbibly construe from lisbon is the prospect of attracting weapons manufuacturing and development companies to set up here to take advantage of the enhanced status and funding of the EDA and thats just a no no from a PR front.

    end of the day everything an economist would want already exists in terms of the participation of the euro and the access to the market.

    in fact from what i can see the only "negative" economic result from a no vote will probably be the circa 25 million a year it'll cost us to DO the damn referendums again and again and again like gay mitchell basically said theyd do.

    on the OP.

    I think this could blow up in the yes sides face. someone else correctly posted that if you get the RIGHT celebrity you could be on a winner. i think you actually WILL see george lee covering this big time as it should be a no brainer. this though is georges first real test. we dont even KNOW his stance on lisbon so if he doesnt campaign for it people will start asking questions and if he DOES people will throw the FG whip in his face. how lee handles this should be one of the funner aspects to the coming referndum.

    but robbie keane? does NO ONE see the irony of a guy calling for a yes vote who comes from a place where 6 out of 10 people voted no?

    the EDGE ? the FIRST thing anyone worth their salt will do is point out he wont even pay all the taxes he should here !

    And dont get me started on seamus heaney. anyone that even KNOWS who he is probably voted yes in the first place. one of the most inexplicable bit of radio i heard in ages was RTE fawning all over this bloke (on his birthday i think) which had all the country under 36 going "who?"

    the BIG problem these guys have is the sophistication of the electorate whom most of em seem to think are as thick as shyte and treat them as such. after everything thats gone on in this country the last 15yrs or so they dont trust the motivation of ANYONE in the public eye. so when they hear an "independant" group is being set up and the head guy involved is an ex EU comission president ably assisted by a bunch of deefurs their bullshyte meter goes through the roof.

    its STILL abit too early to truly come to a conclusion on this but it hasnt got off to a good start. if anything it looks like a more expensive version of those "generation yes" idiots.


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    #39
    storinius
    Closed Accounts Posts: 33 ✭storinius


    netron wrote: »
    ok. lets roll back a bit.

    we have Robbie Keane endorsing a Yes vote - and yet he has not read or understood the Lisbon Treaty?

    If that is the case, then thats a pretty good reason to vote No.

    "Look over here at the shiny celeb - isnt he great - vote Yes - just forget about WHAT yer voting on , but vote Yes!"

    I really don't get why people are so down on Robbie Keane and Denis Hickie about this. I heard Hickie on newstalk, and he said that he was asked how he was voting, and as a citizen he has as much right to answer that as anyone else. If he is heard louder because of what he does (or did) for a living then so be it.

    It also strikes me that these 'celebs' can be seen as endorsing a campaign, rather than the specifics of the treaty. Again Denis Hickie said (and I am paraphrasing here):

    "I haven't read all of the treaty. But the bits I've read I like, and I trust the people in the Ireland for Europe campaign."

    He isn't pretending to be a legal expert, he is just getting stuck in. Fair play I say.


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    #40
    P. Breathnach
    Registered Users Posts: 12,089 ✭✭✭✭P. Breathnach


    partholon wrote: »
    ... the BIG problem these guys have is the sophistication of the electorate whom most of em seem to think are as thick as shyte and treat them as such. after everything thats gone on in this country the last 15yrs or so they dont trust the motivation of ANYONE in the public eye. so when they hear an "independant" group is being set up and the head guy involved is an ex EU comission president ably assisted by a bunch of deefurs their bullshyte meter goes through the roof.

    its STILL abit too early to truly come to a conclusion on this but it hasnt got off to a good start. if anything it looks like a more expensive version of those "generation yes" idiots.

    Are you representative of this sophisticated electorate of which you write?

    Who is the ex EU comission president involved?


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    #41
    K-9
    Registered Users Posts: 43,311 ✭✭✭✭K-9


    netron wrote: »

    we have Robbie Keane endorsing a Yes vote - and yet he has not read or understood the Lisbon Treaty?

    If that is the case, then thats a pretty good reason to vote No.

    As good a reason as any I've heard.

    Mad Men's Don Draper : What you call love was invented by guys like me, to sell nylons.



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    #42
    oscarBravo
    Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 28,804 Mod ✭✭✭✭oscarBravo


    P. Breathnach wrote: »
    Who is the ex EU comission president involved?
    Stop nitpicking - it's enough to know that he's a faceless unelected bureaucrat, isn't it?


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    #43
    petronius
    Registered Users Posts: 849 ✭✭✭petronius


    Lets make the Lisbon treaty look cool...

    The Edge we could move companies to Holland and avoid paying Irish Tax! maybe Lisbon will allow us further tax avoidance

    John Delaney FAI - I hired Steve Staunton - the changes Lisbon makes to the European Union must do what for the FAI

    Robbie Keane - did he read the treaty? if he did that was more than Charlie McCreevy and many others I suspect!

    Maybe they should have Missus Doyle - ah go on go on go on ...you will say yes to lisbon


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    #44
    lostexpectation
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,082 ✭✭✭lostexpectation


    Scofflaw wrote: »
    Hm. Was it a miscalculation by the No side last time? I seem to remember something about multi-millionaires telling the electorate what to do...

    cordially,
    Scofflaw

    the no side didn't put out any celebs last time, multimillionaires?.. business men, any other people you can mention were individual s and not part of orchestrated or campaign like these guys


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    #45
    Scofflaw
    Registered Users Posts: 23,283 ✭✭✭✭Scofflaw


    lostexpectation wrote: »
    the no side didn't put out any celebs last time, multimillionaires?.. business men, any other people you can mention were individual s and not part of orchestrated or campaign like these guys

    Unless the celebs in question are being paid to express an opinion they otherwise wouldn't, there's no difference. I don't think much of celebrity endorsement personally, but celebrities have just as much right as anyone else to publicly express their support for something, and campaign groups have just as much right to ask them as to ask anyone else. If people pay attention to the political opinions of someone whose talent is singing very loudly or looking good in a dress, that's their lookout.

    cordially,
    Scofflaw


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    #46
    lostexpectation
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,082 ✭✭✭lostexpectation


    again there no orchestarted campaign by no people to publicisise celebrity opinion _thats the difference_


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    #47
    P. Breathnach
    Registered Users Posts: 12,089 ✭✭✭✭P. Breathnach


    lostexpectation wrote: »
    again there no orchestarted campaign by no people to publicisise celebrity opinion _thats the difference_

    You've got no celebrities.


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    #48
    lostexpectation
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,082 ✭✭✭lostexpectation


    thank christ!


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    #49
    Scofflaw
    Registered Users Posts: 23,283 ✭✭✭✭Scofflaw


    lostexpectation wrote: »
    thank christ!

    That suggests that you view endorsement by celebrities as a poor thing in itself. I wouldn't disagree with you, but it's a separate issue from 'organised' use of celebrity endorsement. Nor am I convinced that it's possible to lower the standard of debate in Irish referendums, even were we to have endorsement by celebrity pets.

    cordially,
    Scofflaw


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    #50
    View
    Registered Users Posts: 3,872 ✭✭✭View


    Scofflaw wrote: »
    Nor am I convinced that it's possible to lower the standard of debate in Irish referendums....

    I suspect you are too optimistic. My fear is that a Children's rights referendum could be so awful, it'll make Lisbon seem positively intellectual in comparison.


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