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Whats your opinion on drugs and the OH??
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Yes it is, but you made a comment about how "drugs" and "responsible" don't belong in the same sentence, you never limited that to illegal drugs so i asked you a simple question.
I have also given my own account about how it is perfectly possible to keep a healthy relationship with drugs.
So, the absolute of your statement is refuted by the basics of my life.
In short, you're wrong.
Speaking of Reefer Madness,check out the Musical. It's incredible.
Tell me Im wrong all you like. what I am saying to you now is any involvement in illegal drugs is involvement in murder.
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Look at all the legal unethical industries - footwear, clothing, coffee, cocoa, tobacco, Coca Cola... consider the untold misery these cause. But it's ok, because they're legal?
Some of the ignorance and... sheer stupidity frankly on both sides here is pretty full-on.
As for me, no problem with occasional use of anything really (bar heroin, crack or crystal meth but none of these are easily available where I am anyway) once it doesn't have a negative effect on him. I'm aware of the dangers of cocaine and LSD/magic mushrooms but some people can handle the odd line (wouldn't be happy about much more than that) and hallucinogenics agree with some people also. And as long as it's strictly for a bit of fun now and again and not the aim every time there's a social occasion.
And yeah, people just do the above for kicks - it's not necessarily a sign at all of deeper issues. It's fun, like alcohol is. Going for drinks isn't a sign of having deeper issues.Oh The Humanity wrote: »I find people who have never taken drugs alien and slightly scary! You have to watch your P's and Q's with them!
LOL - judgemental and presumptuous much?Yeah, I do too. Gotta be careful what you say around them. It's a mindset I have some difficultly understanding.
I've smoked the very odd bit of doob and that's it. Never touched amphetamines or hallucinogenics and don't plan to (simply because I don't think they would suit me personally)... yet I don't have a problem with other people's choices - in fact most of my most beloved friends do, or have done, drugs... so your "theory" fails. In fact, you have simply proven yourselves, with those statements, to fit into the stereotype of a drug-user who looks down on people who don't do drugs because they're not "cool" enough for them. Didn't think such people existed past undergrad age...
And please don't back-track with "I was only referring to people who are 'OMG, drugs are bad mmmkay?!'", you specifically referred to people who have never taken drugs. Guess the mind-opening aspect of the experience missed you two out...
Yes they do - people can take drugs responsibly, just like people can drink alcohol responsibly. Thinking drugs are evil and bad and dangerous full stop is dreadfully naive.sorry Liah, apart from alcoholism cant agree with ya there . the words responsible and drugs dont belong in the same sentence. not in the real world.
/shrugImagine going through life without ever having tried any drug, its bizarre.
Perhaps bizarre to you, but you're not everyone else.
Kinda looks like back-tracking - you weren't so specific earlier. Now you say you're referring to people who are really anti-drugs (and I'd be with you on that one) but before that, you only focused on how "bizarre" it is to have never tried narcotics.Im not suggesting that making a personal choice not to take narcotics means you have a closed mind, Im taking about people who castigate others for making a choice that is different to theirs, based on some Joe Duffy oul wan style perception of drugs=bad.
Some of the uninformed, hysterical nonsense about drugs in this thread points to the latter.
Where did you get that notion from?You seem to be the only one here who disagrees with me.
LOL - ignore all those who lived to 30 and well beyond it why don't you...By the way name some outstanding people who took them who lived to 30.
Phil lynott,Jimi hendrix , Jim Morrison No .
It was actually alcohol over-consumption that led to the death of Hendrix. And the others didn't just "take drugs", they were heroin addicts - if you think the two are the same, then seriously... you don't have a particularly great basis on which to argue.
You are referring to people who over-did it - of course if you over-do anything you risk seriously damaging your health, possibly fatally so.The path of the drug world is littered with the bodies of the people who thought they were able to handle it.
Youre never fully in control when your driving your car ,same with drugs.I didn't just wake up one day and come to this conclusion.
I've seen enough evidence to support my viewpoint.
I see people from school who smoked pot everyday and there are virtual vegetables now.Slow reactions, no willpower to do anything there going nowhere.
Its alright you can go and do your drugs,but don't pretend to be suprised when at 60 your kidney has packed in.
I know a girl shes 23 she started drinking at 13 ,drank a lot and her pancreas went ,now she has to live on water and rice cakes.
The disingenuous attempts by the anti drugs lobby to argue their case by naming extreme examples when the vast, vast majority of users don't over-do it... is of no benefit in debates like these.0 -
Alcohol IS a drug.
Also, google "prohibition of alcohol."
There was just as much taboo and crime related to alcohol as there were drugs when it was made illegal. The only reason there's so much utter BS tied to drugs like pot and hash is BECAUSE they're illegal and people aren't properly educated about them. If the governments would get their heads out their arses and legalize them the crime behind them would drop significantly, like with what happened with alcohol.
When alcohol was prohibited there was addiction (still is), crime, murder, gangs, guns.
Do some research before you spout out all this Reefer Madness propaganda. You're wrong, and you need to open your eyes and learn.
liah, I was driving through north dublin one morning not too long ago. there was a crime scene being attended by the garda . on the ground was the body of a young man. half of his head was in the garden , his family trying to get to hlm was a particularily sad sight . it later transpired the murder was a drugs hit. all this so some little **** in d,4, could have his coke or some "cool dude " in d.12. could smoke a joint. ANY INVOLVEMENT IN ILLEGAL DRUGS IS TO BE INVOLVED IN MURDER.NO EXCUSES , NO BULL, JUST MURDER. 0 -
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Its the criminalisation of narcotics that generates the associated crime. People have been taking stimulants of all kinds since the dawn of time, only now is there a black market and all the associated trappings around it due to its relatively recent prohibition.liah, I was driving through north dublin one morning not too long ago. there was a crime scene being attended by the garda . on the ground was the body of a young man. half of his head was in the garden , his family trying to get to hlm was a particularily sad sight . it later transpired the murder was a drugs hit. all this so some little **** in d,4, could have his coke or some "cool dude " in d.12. could smoke a joint. ANY INVOLVEMENT IN ILLEGAL DRUGS IS TO BE INVOLVED IN MURDER.NO EXCUSES , NO BULL, JUST MURDER.
So in fact, its the blanket anti- attitudes like yours that keep it criminalised and perpetuates the murder in our streets.
In short, you support MURDER0 -
liah, I was driving through north dublin one morning not too long ago. there was a crime scene being attended by the garda . on the ground was the body of a young man. half of his head was in the garden , his family trying to get to hlm was a particularily sad sight . it later transpired the murder was a drugs hit. all this so some little **** in d,4, could have his coke or some "cool dude " in d.12. could smoke a joint. ANY INVOLVEMENT IN ILLEGAL DRUGS IS TO BE INVOLVED IN MURDER.NO EXCUSES , NO BULL, JUST MURDER.
Because clearly, nobody has ever been murdered because of drink. Nobody has ever been murdered because of religion. Nobody has ever been murdered because of insanity, politics, jealousy, hunger. Drugs are the ONLY REASON LIKE OMG EVER for anything bad in the world.
Again, I urge you to google "alcohol prohibition."
Get a grip. Bad things happen for a variety of reasons. Just as much good comes from drugs as bad. Legalize and regulate, just like we did with alcohol. Bad things still come from alcohol, sure, but not as many as when they were under prohibition.
Don't be so ignorant about the topic. In effect you're supporting all these horrible things because you're supporting ignorance and prohibition instead of legalization and education.0 -
liah, I was driving through north dublin one morning not too long ago. there was a crime scene being attended by the garda . on the ground was the body of a young man. half of his head was in the garden , his family trying to get to hlm was a particularily sad sight . it later transpired the murder was a drugs hit. all this so some little **** in d,4, could have his coke or some "cool dude " in d.12. could smoke a joint. ANY INVOLVEMENT IN ILLEGAL DRUGS IS TO BE INVOLVED IN MURDER.NO EXCUSES , NO BULL, JUST MURDER.
Please elaborate on who gets killed in the process of growing marijuana or picking mushrooms.0 -
Its the criminalisation of narcotics that generates the associated crime. People have been taking stimulants of all kinds since the dawn of time, only now is there a black market and all the associated trappings around it due to its relatively recent prohibition.
So in fact, its the blanket anti- attitudes like yours that keep it criminalised and perpetuates the murder in our streets.
In short, you support MURDER 0 -
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Please elaborate on who gets killed in the process of growing marijuana or picking mushrooms.
Guage, my comments ,as is obvious , are about the illegal use and sale of drugs (narcotics) in this country, not some idiot "growin his/her own" hash.
oh , the thought of some poor fool picking mushrooms is sad. 0 -
Because clearly, nobody has ever been murdered because of drink. Nobody has ever been murdered because of religion. Nobody has ever been murdered because of insanity, politics, jealousy, hunger. Drugs are the ONLY REASON LIKE OMG EVER for anything bad in the world.
Again, I urge you to google "alcohol prohibition."
Get a grip. Bad things happen for a variety of reasons. Just as much good comes from drugs as bad. Legalize and regulate, just like we did with alcohol. Bad things still come from alcohol, sure, but not as many as when they were under prohibition.
Don't be so ignorant about the topic. In effect you're supporting all these horrible things because you're supporting ignorance and prohibition instead of legalization and education.
Liah, I respect your views as I do every other view posted on Boards.
I just cant for the life of me be pro drugs/narcotics in any way. ANY INVOLVEMENT IN ILLEGAL DRUGS IS TO BE INVOLVED IN MURDER. 0 -
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ANY INVOLVEMENT IN ILLEGAL DRUGS IS TO BE INVOLVED IN MURDER.Guage, my comments ,as is obvious , are about the illegal use and sale of drugs (narcotics) in this country, not some idiot "growin his/her own" hash.
That's a teensy weensy bit contradictory, is it not? Some "idiot" growing his own weed is involved in illegal use of drugs, at least. Am I...uh....I mean...are they involved in murder? 0 -
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Right so should we have lax rape laws so that people can be allowed rape if they like? I mean, if we're restricting their freedoms to do what they likeProhibition is a complete failure. Countries which have lax drugs laws have less drugs crime. Instead our courts are clogged up with people being tried for something the should be allowed to do if they choose.
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Marital rape was only recognised as a crime in the 90s for example.
Countries with very hard criminal law are often the worst abusers of human rights- China, Iraq, Afghanistan.
That's kind of why mind-altering substances where people can lose control of their actions and harm others are mostly illegal...Laws should be there to protect people, not to control them.
Glad to see we're not being "catty"People like Valerie see laws as means of controlling people
Shocking, considering criminal means lawbreaker, eh? what will they come up with next!, so if you are doing something against the law (even if a law infringes on your freedom) you are a criminal.
Arranged marriages have nothing to do with adultery, and we have this wonderful thing called "divorce". Honestly, are you on your drugs now...?For example, if adultery was illegal, she would be against genuine love affairs outside arranged marriage.
Uh. crime = action which is legally prohibited.The fact that the law itself is a crime, means nothing to people like that.
Honestly, I was having some respect for your posts til you started with this nonsensical self-contradictory hippy stuff. are you going to tell us having possessions is a crime too? 0 -
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Tell me Im wrong all you like. what I am saying to you now is any involvement in illegal drugs is involvement in murder.
LoL, involvement in TONNES of **** is involvement with murder, practical slavery, the stripping of the economies and natural resources of third world countries etc etc etc.
The point has already been raised that by forcing effectively harmless drugs into a prohibitionary status basically means you put them in the full control of criminals.
But it is largely easy to accept the point only in relation to illegal drugs. Look, i'm not so foolish as to think that none of the drugs i use come through dodgey hands, but i am also not so foolish as to believe there are not coming from those sources for a reason.
Look, so far in this thread we have had all the usual rubbish about drugs, from the people who dislike and support them, simple logic will normally work through the points and this thread is no different.
People are entitled to their view and all that but i do find something slightly fractured in your willingness to avoid discussion about logical ways to improve the situation.
It's supply and demand, and there is plenty of demand. The supply will come from somewhere. Do you not think it's better to even flirt with the idea of some mild legalisations....lets say you can home grow one plant per person in a household in safety ( currently the way Amsterdam does it ). This would lead to improved product, less money into criminal gangs, less money spent on the softer drug war and if you tack on a licence to grow like our current TV licence system ( where the people who want to grow purchase a licence, and the licence money is used to fund a body that does spot checks on growers and also covers legal issues and research ) you have a safe and watched systems that is pumping tax money into a flagging economy.
The ability to grow hemp would be a massive boon to our agricultural area's....it's a freaking amazing plant which offers us a LOT in terms of textiles and materials that would be a lot better for the planet than our current methods.
Basically the benefits to the careful process of legalising smoke for homegrowth and hemp as a cash crop would be huge. Add in that marijuana is generally deemed to be less damaging to the health than smoking tobacco and drinking and i don't see how people can simply dismiss the argument.
Similar chains of reason can be applied to various other scheduled but soft substances.0 -
GirlInterrupted wrote: »Hmm. You seem to have your own notions of what people 'ought' to be like. And I think telling us what goes on in Valery's head is presumptous at best, and putting words in her mouth at worst.
I don't agree with Valery, or some of the posters on the other side of the debate, but they all have a right to express themselves and not have huge assumptions made about their morality.
No, I think people should be allowed to live their lives whatever way they want provided they're not hurting anyone else. I think people who say they shouldn't are making a massive statement about their own morality. It seems to me to be more about protecting the status quo than about actually doing what's right. I just don't see any point making something illegal when people are going to do it regardless, and it doesn't hurt anyone but themselves. Prohibition does more harm than good. Anyone who looks at the US's alcohol prohibition can see that, and it's the same here for weed.
Valery's argument is basically- it's the law. Obey it.
There is no consideration of the harm prohibition is doing, of the fact that most adults who smoke just grow their own (it's a hell of a lot cheaper apparently), of the fact that the law itself is not needed, the fact that countries with lax laws on drug use have lower drug abuse.
Someone was trying to be funny/clever/sarcastic earlier (while missing the point) saying that "if we had lax laws on rape, wouldn't that be the same thing?". Well no, because rape harms another person. That's the reason it's illegal. Isn't that obvious
The reason cannabis is illegal is... well it's the law so people assume it's bad for you/society. This isn't really the case.
I can't smoke because three of my uncles who were non-smokers died of lung cancer, so I have a predisposition to it, but I think people should have the right to smoke weed if they want to and it's not harming anyone else. I REALLY don't see the point of the laws.
Added to that the amount of tax wasted prosecuting people, the amount of revenue that could be gained if it was taxed (it could be very highly taxed and still be cheaper than street prices because it changes hands so much before you can get a small useable amount unless you grow it), the jobs that would be created growing it (about 250,000 consumers is a big market), the difficulty it would cause for children who wanted it (I know it was easier to get hash than alcohol when I was underage, because dealers don't care what age you are).
Anyway, I'll come back some day when I wasn't working for 14 hours after 3 hours sleep!0 -
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The tea and coffee industries are very cruel, exploitative ones indeed, which treat their workers like sh1t.
Yeah, look at those Nescafé ads where the young, white English kid cause this massive fuss with his black boss over putting the Regular coffee beans in the same sacks as the Instant bags. It's clear that communication in that business is non-existant. Can you imagine such a lack of dialogue in your offices? Truly hell on earth.
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