Motorsport Photography

cian1500ww

So I've gotten into motorsport photography, specifically rallying. I was at the recent donegal rally:








More here: http://www.cianmcgovern.com/index.php?page_id=3&album=2&gallery=3

I was wondering if people could give me some advice on how I could improve future shots. I didn't have a media pass so I had to take all pictures from spectator viewing points. I used my Sigma 70-300mm lens and my Pentax 18-55mm lens on a Pentax K-M body. I used shutter priority mode with a speed of 1/500, ISO of 200 & 400 and autofocus. Anyone got any advice on how I could improve my shots ??

melekalikimaka

lose the copyright jazz.

panning, shoot manual and learn to pan, really does wonders for these shots, nice ones ya got but a bit to static

cian1500ww

melekalikimaka wrote: »

lose the copyright jazz.

panning, shoot manual and learn to pan, really does wonders for these shots, nice ones ya got but a bit to static

Thanks, I couldn't really pan as the cars were coming towards me.

clive_odonohoe

I think you have done well with these shots, although I would say that they are a bit static. I dont get a sense of action or speed from them. This is probably due to your position which I understand was just like any other spectator. Just try to get some motion to your images, I think would help. good photo's all the same.

Paulw

Rally is fun. I did some rally driving a few weeks ago. Mad stuff. When not in the car I got some images I was happy with. They were mostly on the corners, where you can see the motion, due to dirt/dust flying around.

Not easy to get good images when the car is coming directly at you though.

cian1500ww

clive_odonohoe wrote: »

I think you have done well with these shots, although I would say that they are a bit static. I dont get a sense of action or speed from them. This is probably due to your position which I understand was just like any other spectator. Just try to get some motion to your images, I think would help. good photo's all the same.

Thanks mate, yep motion was almost impossible to get, I was stuck behind a hedge for the first few so I couldn't get any shots of them going sideways, and I have a few sideways ones from the second junction:

But I was to far away from the junction to get a good close-up shot.

What kind of shutter speed should I look at ?? Was 1/500 to high or to low for non-panning shot ??

melekalikimaka

cian1500ww wrote: »

What kind of shutter speed should I look at ?? Was 1/500 to high or to low for non-panning shot ??

very high, 1/10 - 1/30

cian1500ww

melekalikimaka wrote: »

very high, 1/10 - 1/30

Would they not come out blurred ?? Seems a little to slow to me But I'm not sure

melekalikimaka

thats where the panning comes in



thats bout 30th i think

.Longshanks.

This was taken at 0.025 sec (1/40)



Was first attempt at panning, but main think i thing you need to remember is that you need a smooth swing with the camera and don't expect every shot to initially come out the way you hoped!

cian1500ww

Ah ok, but panning is virtually impossible in rallying as most times you are taking a picture of the car coming towards me or moving away, its very rare you would get the kind of space and straight stretch to pan. How would I sharpen the shots more ??

clive_odonohoe

I think this speed is accurate, when your panning you want the background to naturally blur as you move, whilst following your subject. If you pan shoot at speeds of 1/500, the blur becomes more in focus with a noticeable reduction in blur.

.Longshanks.

cian1500ww wrote: »

Ah ok, but panning is virtually impossible in rallying as most times you are taking a picture of the car coming towards me or moving away, its very rare you would get the kind of space and straight stretch to pan. How would I sharpen the shots more ??

Get to a corner!

Ricky91t

cian1500ww wrote: »

Would they not come out blurred ?? Seems a little to slow to me But I'm not sure

First,
Rally and media passes are not always needed,
You can get in alot of points which are great and no need of a pass,The only places a media pass would give you a huge advantage would be the molls gap corner on rally of the lakes(huge spectator spot) and alot of Rally Ireland.

For the local rallies the marshall's aren't overly bothered and most are there to watch that the rally than control the spectators(even though they are the officials).On more than one occasion I've been in quite dangerous spots(Car's over steering towards me and the marshalls maybe 10 feet away from me say nothing)

For panning you were in the wrong spot you need to be on a bend usually as it's easier straight line panning is quite hard unless you've got a wide lens

The first four IMO are not good it feels like you're looking down on the car and no sense of speed(i have done this myself as it is hard to get a good spot)

You're better off going back to the stage the day before the rally chances are they'll be a few drivers out in their standard lancers and imprezas taking pace notes this will give you an idea of a good corner and you could find the best spot to go to the next day,Best off finding more than one as the marshalls might move you.

I've just read over that and it seems like alot of jibberish but hopefully you'll make something out of it

A boring 3,000th post

Paulw

cian1500ww

Ricky91t wrote: »

First,
Rally and media passes are not always needed,
You can get in alot of points which are great and no need of a pass,The only places a media pass would give you a huge advantage would be the molls gap corner on rally of the lakes(huge spectator spot) and alot of Rally Ireland.

For the local rallies the marshall's aren't overly bothered and most are there to watch that the rally than control the spectators(even though they are the officials).On more than one occasion I've been in quite dangerous spots(Car's over steering towards me and the marshalls maybe 10 feet away from me say nothing)

For panning you were in the wrong spot you need to be on a bend usually as it's easier straight line panning is quite hard unless you've got a wide lens

The first four IMO are not good it feels like you're looking down on the car and no sense of speed(i have done this myself as it is hard to get a good spot)

You're better off going back to the stage the day before the rally chances are they'll be a few drivers out in their standard lancers and imprezas taking pace notes this will give you an idea of a good corner and you could find the best spot to go to the next day,Best off finding more than one as the marshalls might move you.

I've just read over that and it seems like alot of jibberish but hopefully you'll make something out of it

A boring 3,000th post

Thats quite helpful Ricky, I've spectated at quite a lot of rallies now and I've found that the spots that result in shots like the focus above have got to be taken from places where no-one would allow a spectator to stand eg. inside of a corner, outside of corner,etc. For example the first junction I was at on Saturday was beside a pub, now normally you would be allowed stand on the outside of a corner but the ground I was on was raised with a hedge in front so we were allowed stand there so take a look at this:
My picture:


Picture from Seamus Counihan at the same junction but he was standing in a boxed of junction where I wasn't allowed to stand because I didn't have a media pass:


I've enquired about a pass for the Sligo stages but I'm not sure whether I'll get it or not. Does anyone know what requirements one must have to get a pass ??

Paddy@CIRL

Panning is all down to the speed of the car and the condition of the road / course. If the car is 100mph, your obviously going to be panning very, very fast so you can use a faster shutter speed to get the amount of motion blur you'd get if the car was doing 40mph with a slower shutter speed. 1/10th and 1/30ths are very optimistic low shutters for anybody, let alone someone who is just starting out with motorsports.

Start at 1/125th and work your way down. Make sure your using AF Servo so that the focus is continuosly tracking and your using the centre AF point.

If your shooting head on, switch to aperture priority and shoot wide open to throw the background out.

Ricky91t

cian1500ww wrote: »

Thats quite helpful Ricky, I've spectated at quite a lot of rallies now and I've found that the spots that result in shots like the focus above have got to be taken from places where no-one would allow a spectator to stand eg. inside of a corner, outside of corner,etc. For example the first junction I was at on Saturday was beside a pub, now normally you would be allowed stand on the outside of a corner but the ground I was on was raised with a hedge in front so we were allowed stand there so take a look at this:
My picture:


Picture from Seamus Counihan at the same junction but he was standing in a boxed of junction where I wasn't allowed to stand because I didn't have a media pass:


I've enquired about a pass for the Sligo stages but I'm not sure whether I'll get it or not. Does anyone know what requirements one must have to get a pass ??

Usually to get a pass you contact Motorsport Ireland fill out a form(think it has to be done before the rally year starts) it requires to show proof your rally images have published in magazines(not on a website) I think that's all,Applying to clubs usually doesn't work due in Insurance etc that Motorsport cover/require I think










They were all taken from spectator spots and i feel they capture the action of the bend

But each to their own I suppose

cian1500ww

Paddy@CIRL wrote: »

Panning is all down to the speed of the car and the condition of the road / course. If the car is 100mph, your obviously going to be panning very, very fast so you can use a faster shutter speed to get the amount of motion blur you'd get if the car was doing 40mph with a slower shutter speed. 1/10th and 1/30ths are very optimistic low shutters for anybody, let alone someone who is just starting out with motorsports.

Start at 1/125th and work your way down. Make sure your using AF Servo so that the focus is continuosly tracking and your using the centre AF point.

If your shooting head on, switch to aperture priority and shoot wide open to throw the background out.

Ah ok, I can manage the panning ok, I was practicing before the rally, but I found it impossible to use as the cars were coming straight at me. I'll try that aperture priority mode next time. Would a lower aperture get a sharper picture ?? Like if you look at my picture compared to crspics one, his seems more clear to me

cian1500ww

Ricky91t wrote: »

Usually to get a pass you contact Motorsport Ireland fill out a form(think it has to be done before the rally year starts) it requires to show proof your rally images have published in magazines(not on a website) I think that's all,Applying to clubs usually doesn't work due in Insurance etc that Motorsport cover/require I think

They were all taken from spectator spots and i feel they capture the action of the bend

But each to their own I suppose

I had seen that form but seeing as there is only one rally magazine (Pacenotes) and they have their own photographers I think it would be quite hard to get some published. I'd be doing it for selling to drivers and co-drivers like what a lot of the rally photographers I've seen so far.

Ricky91t

Paddy@CIRL wrote: »

Panning is all down to the speed of the car and the condition of the road / course. If the car is 100mph, your obviously going to be panning very, very fast so you can use a faster shutter speed to get the amount of motion blur you'd get if the car was doing 40mph with a slower shutter speed. 1/10th and 1/30ths are very optimistic low shutters for anybody, let alone someone who is just starting out with motorsports.

Start at 1/125th and work your way down. Make sure your using AF Servo so that the focus is continuosly tracking and your using the centre AF point.

If your shooting head on, switch to aperture priority and shoot wide open to throw the background out.

Would have to disagree with the last bit the rest is fine,

You can definitely pan on a straight,Not with great results but better than a frozen solid car imo.And still quite a high shutter speed

Ricky91t

cian1500ww wrote: »

I had seen that form but seeing as there is only one rally magazine (Pacenotes) and they have their own photographers I think it would be quite hard to get some published. I'd be doing it for selling to drivers and co-drivers like what a lot of the rally photographers I've seen so far.

Flat to the mat?Some other car magazines would usually have images from some rallies,Even if pacenotes has a photographer,Chances are he's not next to you and you'll have a different image of a crash,drift etc

cian1500ww

Ricky91t wrote: »

Flat to the mat?Some other car magazines would usually have images from some rallies,Even if pacenotes has a photographer,Chances are he's not next to you and you'll have a different image of a crash,drift etc

Unfortunately Flat 2 the Mat are gone a while now. Funny you should say that as Seamus Counihan works for Pacenotes and he was beside me :eek::pac:

I don't know how I would get work published as the real "money shots" like jumps, hairpins etc. are very dangerous and marshalls never allow spectators near them. Is it possible to get a pass from the club ??

Paddy@CIRL

Ricky91t wrote: »

Would have to disagree with the last bit the rest is fine,

You can definitely pan on a straight,Not with great results but better than a frozen solid car imo.And still quite a high shutter speed

Never said you couldn't pan on a straight either, just in general ...





But I'm speaking of absolute head on shots, where you cant see the wheels because the car is travelling directly towards you and the only real way to show motion is to zoom burst but that can be messy. Where as the standing on the side of a straight isn't a head on shot as the car is still travelling from left to right or right to left. Then its time for experimentaion shots !



Thats only 1/40th but the back of the car is nearly lost in the blur.

Ricky91t

cian1500ww wrote: »

Unfortunately Flat 2 the Mat are gone a while now. Funny you should say that as Seamus Counihan works for Pacenotes and he was beside me :eek::pac:

I don't know how I would get work published as the real "money shots" like jumps, hairpins etc. are very dangerous and marshalls never allow spectators near them. Is it possible to get a pass from the club ??

Flat 2 the mat are gone?

I never noticed that :eek:

Ah right lol,Chances are they won't always be in the same place and you could get the money shot,Just any images you get that stand out email them to the magazine,And see what happens,you might be able to get passes off the club,But i'm not 100% sure,Motorsport Ireland seems to have a big presence with the media accredation for the rallies

cian1500ww

Ricky91t wrote: »

Flat 2 the mat are gone?

I never noticed that :eek:

Ah right lol,Chances are they won't always be in the same place and you could get the money shot,Just any images you get that stand out email them to the magazine,And see what happens,you might be able to get passes off the club,But i'm not 100% sure,Motorsport Ireland seems to have a big presence with the media accredation for the rallies

Yep gone a nice while now, Pacenotes is the only I know of anymore. I'll guess I'll just have to try what you said, all I need is two photos published and I should be able to get the MI pass. I think I'll have to recce the stages as well. I contacted the Connacht motor club and it was passed on to their PRO but I doubt I'll get a response.

Borderfox

Keep practicing and mabye try some of the track events where you can practice panning. Shoot shutter priority and keep an eye on your aperture making sure it doesnt drop to low, if it does up your ISO.

I had a media pass for a pro-drift event and did some panning 1/50th (check the full size version for sharpness)


Something different, winner caught on a remote camera

Forde-fotos

cian1500ww wrote: »

Ah ok, I can manage the panning ok, I was practicing before the rally, but I found it impossible to use as the cars were coming straight at me. I'll try that aperture priority mode next time. Would a lower aperture get a sharper picture ?? Like if you look at my picture compared to crspics one, his seems more clear to me

The way Seamus gets these sharp pictures is because he uses top of the range equipment, top spec canon cameras and lenses. He also has many years of experience of photographing at rallies. Combine this with being able to stand in good places and then you will get the rewards.
My best advice to you is to stick at it and you will get the rewards, best practice can be gotten from track days



Also as Richard says, it is best to recce the stages on the day before the rally to find the best spots. Thats what alot of the media that I know of do, therefore they get good action shots.

I hope this helps you, but most importantly, keep snapping.

smash

If anyone wants to practice their panning, there's Porsche club track day in Mondello today!

.Longshanks.

steve06 wrote: »

If anyone wants to practice their panning, there's Porsche club track day in Mondello today!

Bloody work....Not a bad complaint i suppose

Paparazzo

Also, Skerries motorbike road races are on tomorrow. Probably the biggest bike race in the south

clive_odonohoe

Paparazzo wrote: »

Also, Skerries motorbike road races are on tomorrow. Probably the biggest bike race in the south

Is it a free event, like can you just turn up and watch from the the side of the road where marshals allow you to stand?

.Longshanks.

clive_odonohoe wrote: »

Is it a free event, like can you just turn up and watch from the the side of the road where marshals allow you to stand?

Some other info here
http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055610215

Paparazzo

Pay a tenner in. If you get there early you'll get a good spot. About 9-9:30 is early!
Some info here:
http://www.biker.ie/forum/showthread.php?t=85114
and
http://www.skerrieshomepage.f2s.com/viewingpoints.htm