specific articles

conchubhar1

i would like, and would be handy for me and others, if this thread would contain only articles numbers from the lisbon treaty that are good reasons for voiting yes or no


comments should be highly relevant and if at all possible to be avoided and only contain the article number

thanks

PopeBuckfastXVI

Before it kicks off, remember your reason for voting yes may be my reason for voting no. Also a specific article is open to misinterpretation, see the confusion of the 'self amending' clause...

conchubhar1

but by limiting it to article numbers lets people look it up

misinterpretation is up to the person - that is bad but if they (i) have a problem it can be addressed or attempt ot be addressed here

Scofflaw

conchubhar1 wrote: »

but by limiting it to article numbers lets people look it up

misinterpretation is up to the person - that is bad but if they (i) have a problem it can be addressed or attempt ot be addressed here

Hmm. We could say posts on this thread should be:

1. Article Reference
2. Quote Article
3. Give your interpretation (briefly).


Any discussion of the interpretation of articles should take place in a separate thread with the Article Reference as a title. Seem sensible?

cordially,
Scofflaw

conchubhar1

ok

the self amending misinterpretation it has been debunked - but only when people (me inluded) saw the article number and read it

then, it was obvious it was wron interpretation or a lie

Hitman Actual

Scofflaw wrote: »

Hmm. We could say posts on this thread should be:

1. Article Reference
2. Quote Article
3. Give your interpretation (briefly).


Any discussion of the interpretation of articles should take place in a separate thread with the Article Reference as a title. Seem sensible?

cordially,
Scofflaw

I assume we all stick to the Consolidated version of Lisbon to avoid confusion?

conchubhar1

if anyone adds to this ever

any treaty qoute will do - once it is states which version (front page name)

Scofflaw

Hitman Actual wrote: »

I assume we all stick to the Consolidated version of Lisbon to avoid confusion?

I think so - not really possible to tell what they're on about otherwise.

cordially,
Scofflaw

conchubhar1

well if one has only read another version - if they state what version they are taking the article from

knock themselves out - at this stage ill take it from any form

Ellie The Mess

For the yes

BRUSSELS EUROPEAN COUCIL
11 AND 12 DECEMBER 2008
PRESIDENCY COCLUSIONS

I. The Treaty of Lisbon
1. The European Council re-affirms that the Treaty of Lisbon is considered necessary in order to help the enlarged Union to function more efficiently, more democratically and more effectively including in international affairs. With a view to enabling the Treaty to enter into force by the end of 2009, the European Council, while respecting the aims and objectives of
the Treaties, has defined the following path.

2. On the composition of the Commission, the European Council recalls that the Treaties currently in force require that the number of Commissioners be reduced in 2009. The European Council agrees that provided the Treaty of Lisbon enters into force, a decision will be taken, in accordance with the necessary legal procedures, to the effect that the Commission shall continue to include one national of each Member State.

3. The European Council has carefully noted the other concerns of the Irish people presented by the Taoiseach as set out in Annex 1 relating to taxation policy, family, social and ethical issues, and Common Security and Defence Policy (CSDP) with regard to Ireland's traditional policy of neutrality. The European Council agrees that, provided Ireland makes the commitment in paragraph 4, all of the concerns set out in the said statement shall be addressed to the mutual satisfaction of Ireland and the other Member States.
The necessary legal guarantees will be given on the following three points:.
• nothing in the Treaty of Lisbon makes any change of any kind, for any Member State, to the extent or operation of the Union's competences in relation to taxation;
• the Treaty of Lisbon does not prejudice the security and defence policy of
Member States, including Ireland's traditional policy of neutrality, and the obligations of most other Member States;
• a guarantee that the provisions of the Irish Constitution in relation to the right to life, education and the family are not in any way affected by the fact that the Treaty of Lisbon attributes legal status to the EU Charter of Fundamental Rights or by the justice and home affairs provisions of the said Treaty.
In addition, the high importance attached to the issues, including workers' rights, set out in paragraph (d) of Annex 1 will be confirmed.

4. In the light of the above commitments by the European Council, and conditional on the satisfactory completion of the detailed follow-on work by mid-2009 and on presumption of heir satisfactory implementation, the Irish Government is committed to seeking ratification of the Treaty of Lisbon by the end of the term of the current Commission.

BlitzKrieg

Article 11 of The Treaty of the european union

Article 11
1. The institutions shall, by appropriate means, give citizens and representative associations the
opportunity to make known and publicly exchange their views in all areas of Union action.
2. The institutions shall maintain an open, transparent and regular dialogue with representative
associations and civil society.
3. The European Commission shall carry out broad consultations with parties concerned in order
to ensure that the Union's actions are coherent and transparent.
4. Not less than one million citizens who are nationals of a significant number of Member States
may take the initiative of inviting the European Commission, within the framework of its powers, to
submit any appropriate proposal on matters where citizens consider that a legal act of the Union is
required for the purpose of implementing the Treaties.
The procedures and conditions required for such a citizens' initiative shall be determined in accordance
with the first paragraph of Article 24 of the Treaty on the Functioning of the European Union.

and article 24 of the treaty on the functioning of the european union, first paragraph reference:

Article 24
(ex Article 21 TEC)
The European Parliament and the Council, acting by means of regulations in accordance with the
ordinary legislative procedure, shall adopt the provisions for the procedures and conditions required
for a citizens' initiative within the meaning of Article 11 of the Treaty on European Union, including
the minimum number of Member States from which such citizens must come.

As a tool it allows non governmental bodies across the European Union that hold no majority in any single state to influence a national representative but have a substantial number across numerous states combined represent their concerns before the EU and propose a legal process to the commission. The Commission is free to turn down the proposal but must be transparant on its process. If the commission approves the law is still required to go through the ordinary legislation process. Also the request must be within the commissions power so obviously issues such as a petition to remove specific member states, take the EU to war or propose international trade issues etc.

edit: sorry it took so long I was tied up with another less important discussion over in films board.

conchubhar1

thanks