What sort of damage could be caused?

stealthyspeeder

Im sitting beside my friend in work who has just told me that his girlfriend left her car in to get serviced at a main Dubllin BMW dealer. On her way back home, the engine light comes on (after about 10 miles), so she stops the car and speaks to BMW's emergancy line, who send out a towtruck and gets it recovered to her house. My mate checked the oil, NONE THERE AT ALL!!

Now I would have thought that would be the engine fcuked? What do you reckon her best course of action is? how do you get the dealer to admit liability? (they are currently unaware of the situation, just asking in case they try and deny it!)

Main question, my friend and his girlfriend dont seem to be aware potential problems of an engine without oil, does anyone know what the damage could be for 10 miles driving an oilless car? (possiblity that oil was put in and sump plug wasnt secured properly!)

Run_to_da_hills

New block at the worst depends on how long it was driven without oil. If the car was a fresh car I would contact a solicitor straight away if they did not cooperate.

stealthyspeeder

about 25 mins driving time

Sam Kade

Thats the reason I service my own car.

Stevie Dakota

That is maddening and unforgivable. I would get a written report from the AA or similar before giving the car back to BMW, noting the exact details. Write down EVERYTHING, when things happened, every phone call with BMW including who you are talking to. They may do the right thing here but you want to cover yourself in the event that they don't.

I would doubt that the sump plug is missing as that would have been very obvious when they refilled the oil. I would say it was never filled after being emptied, which begs the question why wasn't the light on at the very outset?

Keep us posted.

Run_to_da_hills

Sam Kade wrote: »

Thats the reason I service my own car.

If it was still under warrenty you would loose all your warrenty rights if you serviced it yourself.

stealthyspeeder

Great idea Stevie, the AA are being rung as I type!

I agree, total incompetance, if the garage own up and are agreeable and fix everything, then OK mistakes can be made but if not, they'll be getting some grief from solicitors (plus I'll name and shame!)

polyfusion

Finding it hard to believe that a mechanic would forget to put oil back in the engine! When your friend checked the dipstick, was he looking for black oil on it? With fresh clean oil, it might be difficult for a non-tech person to see the level.

I wouldn't have thought an engine would have lasted more than 10 minutes without oil. Most are up to temp in less than 5; so if no oil, then no transfer of heat away from cylinder block, would get very hot very quickly, I would have thought.

stealthyspeeder

polyfusion wrote: »

Finding it hard to believe that a mechanic would forget to put oil back in the engine! When your friend checked the dipstick, was he looking for black oil on it? With fresh clean oil, it might be difficult for a non-tech person to see the level.

I wouldn't have thought an engine would have lasted more than 10 minutes without oil. Most are up to temp in less than 5; so if no oil, then no transfer of heat away from cylinder block, would get very hot very quickly, I would have thought.

That was my thinking as well about the engine, but a the friends girlfriends dad (and he's used to wrk in construction) checked it and said the dipstick was bone dry!

Thats why I thought about the sump plug not being put in right, but there was no trail of oil when they pushed it off the recovery truck?

Anan1

stealthyspeeder wrote: »

Main question, my friend and his girlfriend dont seem to be aware potential problems of an engine without oil, does anyone know what the damage could be for 10 miles driving an oilless car? (possiblity that oil was put in and sump plug wasnt secured properly!)

Stevie Dakota wrote: »

I would doubt that the sump plug is missing as that would have been very obvious when they refilled the oil. I would say it was never filled after being emptied, which begs the question why wasn't the light on at the very outset?

Keep us posted.

Whatever happened, that's shocking behaviour on the part of the garage. Might they have forgotten to tighten (or even refit) the oil filter? It does sound strange that the light only came on after 10 minutes - indicates to me that the oil leaked out rather than not having been there in the first place? Did she stop the car as soon as the light came on? Any untoward noise/vibration? My understanding is that an engine will last less than a minute without any oil at all.

OldmanMondeo

Apart from the Heat, the oil should also lube all moving parts, think of all the metal rubbing and grinding in the engine. Ouch. As said before, keep everything in writing.

niceirishfella

Run_to_da_hills wrote: »

If it was still under warrenty you would loose all your warrenty rights if you serviced it yourself.

no you don't.

stealthyspeeder

Anan1 - I thought the engine wouldnt get anywhere without oil too, appparently she drove about 30 seconds (to find somewhere to pull over) when the light came on. She said the acclerator made the car feel "wierd" (great female description of a serious problem!). What effect would no filter have? surely it wouldnt cause the car to lose 4/5 liters of oil in 20 mins?

EPM

niceirishfella wrote: »

no you don't.

While it doesn't matter not getting it done in a main dealer, the use of OEM parts is required and the garage has to be VAT registered AFAIK. Open to correction though:D

@ OP, Sounds like a leak. Surely it would not have lasted 25 mins without a drop in it?!? Plus if there was no evidence of a leak under the car the oil could be well and truely gone for some distance. Wouldn't be holding out much hope for it. I'd be demanding a new engine rather than the offer of repairs or a secondhand one too

hobochris

stealthyspeeder wrote: »

Anan1 - I thought the engine wouldnt get anywhere without oil too, appparently she drove about 30 seconds (to find somewhere to pull over) when the light came on. She said the acclerator made the car feel "wierd" (great female description of a serious problem!). What effect would no filter have? surely it wouldnt cause the car to lose 4/5 liters of oil in 20 mins?

Id say more like 5 minutes.. the car might be ok, as there would be a small about of oil clinging onto moving parts in the engine... but still get it checked.

Stevie Dakota

Your mates girlfriend deserves a medal for pulling over so quickly. She may have saved the day. I suspect a lot of people would ignore the light and drive home!

niceirishfella

EPM wrote: »

While it doesn't matter not getting it done in a main dealer, the use of OEM parts is required and the garage has to be VAT registered AFAIK. Open to correction though:D

OEM parts - Correct!
VAT reg - nope, thats matter between any garage turning over a certain amonut per annum and revenue - nowt to do with warranty.

Run_to_da_hills

Stevie Dakota wrote: »

Your mates girlfriend deserves a medal for pulling over so quickly. She may have saved the day. I suspect a lot of people would ignore the light and drive home!

I would have driven on home with it and claimed a new block.

Sam Kade

Run_to_da_hills wrote: »

If it was still under warrenty you would loose all your warrenty rights if you serviced it yourself.

If you use geniune parts from the main dealer and keep reciepts as proof your car is still covered under warranty.

Anan1

Stevie Dakota wrote: »

Your mates girlfriend deserves a medal for pulling over so quickly. She may have saved the day. I suspect a lot of people would ignore the light and drive home!

+1. That said, if the accelerator was meking the car feel 'weird' then I fear the engine was starting to seize.

@stealthyspeeder - I don't know whether oil is pumped or sucked through the oil filter, either way though I assume having no filter would result in a fairly rapid loss of oil (or the oil pump sucking in air, which is just as bad). This is all non-mechanic guessing on my part, though.

zilog_jones

Could there have been some oil in there, just not enough to reach the dipstick? I assume they don't go right down to the bottom of the sump?

polyfusion

zilog_jones wrote: »

Could there have been some oil in there, just not enough to reach the dipstick? I assume they don't go right down to the bottom of the sump?

Could be right. Level might have been ok before the engine was started, and needed a little running to fill out all the lines/chambers/filter. Should have been topped up after this though.