IMPORTANT INFO RE SWINE FLU

King Mob

Slugs wrote: »

Well I mean as I stated I've only barely looked into it, I mean I don't plan on getting vaccines for the very simple reason, I don't know what is in them. You have an immune system, use it or lose it.

The vaccine make you use your immune system just like the virus but without the symptoms.

Slugs wrote: »

I do however understand the concept. I know the vaccine used is actually a dead form of the virus and basically you're using that dead virus to trick your system into thinking that you have the virus.

Pretty much.

Slugs wrote: »

But the whole business sounds sketchy to me, after all if it's dead how can it be infected.

Because virus is there it just can't replicate or cause symptoms.

Slugs wrote: »

And I think immunizing yourself against a virus only encourages the mutation of the virus.

No, it doesn't.

How exactly can the virus do that when it's dead?

Slugs

Well I mean when a virus finds a new host, wont it have adapted from the previous host. I mean why would it try the same tactics over and over again, they adapt...

King Mob

Slugs wrote: »

Well I mean when a virus finds a new host, wont it have adapted from the previous host. I mean why would it try the same tactics over and over again, they adapt...

Because it's not intelligent or one entity? And it's not how mutation, evolution or viruses work?

It uses those tactics because that's what it's genetic and chemical make up make it do.
Antibodies (both those produced normally or by the presence of a vaccine, there's no difference) work on the chemical make up of viruses.

Some viruses has new strains that pop up every year like the cold and flu, while others don't like chicken pox and mumps.
This happens all the time regardless of vaccines.

You really should read up on how vaccines and viruses work before you start decrying them.

bonkey

Slugs wrote: »

I do however understand the concept.
...
after all if it's dead how can it be infected.

If I understand you correctly, what you're saying is that you understand the basic premise of immunization, but admit that you don't understand how it works.

With respect, that doesn't seem like a strong position from which to argue that it does or doesn't work.

And I think immunizing yourself against a virus only encourages the mutation of the virus.

Can I ask what you base this on?

Slugs

bonkey wrote: »

If I understand you correctly, what you're saying is that you understand the basic premise of immunization, but admit that you don't understand how it works.

Which I stated in my initial post.

With respect, that doesn't seem like a strong position from which to argue that it does or doesn't work.

I didn't come here to get into a scientific debate, I just came to give my thoughts on the matter, I've made my initial post which no one has yet to comment on, which I was hoping someone would. I'm not here to get into a debate about something I don't obviously fully understand, or at the very least know the finer details of. I just have an overview. I'm not STATING yhat it does or doesn't work, I'm just giving my thoughts on it and why in my OPINION it just doesn't make any sense to do it from having looked at it.

I will be going away in a while to have a look at some articles on vaccines and the like, but wanted to post this before I started just to get some initial feedback on what I highlighted in my initial posts :P

And yes I realise the "broken leg" analogy had its flaws (;)) but it was the only one I could think of at the time :P

meglome

Slugs wrote: »

I didn't come here to get into a scientific debate, I just came to give my thoughts on the matter, I've made my initial post which no one has yet to comment on, which I was hoping someone would. I'm not here to get into a debate about something I don't obviously fully understand, or at the very least know the finer details of. I just have an overview. I'm not STATING yhat it does or doesn't work, I'm just giving my thoughts on it and why in my OPINION it just doesn't make any sense to do it from having looked at it.

I don't know a lot about viruses although I have learned more about them recently. Now I can have whatever opinion I like, I'm entitled to think what I want. I could think the earth is flat if I want, although evidence would say otherwise. So in the vaccine debate I choose to go with the vast majority of the medical profession and the peer reviewed science rather than people who often have an agenda and little evidence on the internet. It doesn't mean I'll be queueing up to have injections just that if push comes to shove and my life is threatened I'll make the most rational and informed decision.

bonkey

Slugs wrote: »

I didn't come here to get into a scientific debate, I just came to give my thoughts on the matter,

I'm not asking you to get into a scientific debate....particularly considering that this is not a science forum.

I'm doing like you - offering my thoughts on the matter. My thoughts is that someone who admits to not understanding how something is supposed to work is not someone I would consider as being in a position to make a strong argument as to wother or not it does work.

You're entitled to your opinion, just as I am to mine.
You're entitled to voice your opinion, just as I am entitled to voice mine.

You feel it worth pointing out to anyone reading that you don't think it works. Thats fine by me.

I feel it work pointing out to anyone reading that you admit to being in a position where that opinion is based on a lack of information. I would hope that this is equally fine by you.

This being a Conspiracy Theories forum, and (as mentioned above) not a science forum, the points you are making have to be considered in terms of the forum.

If someone is questioning whether or not vaccination is a hoax, fraud, or other conspiracy against us, then your comments appear to support that notion. You support the notion that they're not what medical and scientific communities claim them to be...you believe that they don't do what is claimed.

By implication, you seem to believe that the medical and scientific communities are lying to us.

While I applaud your intention to go and read some material on the subject, I'm curious as to how you can reconcile any information that explains why immunisation works with the belief that the very communities who would produce such information are lying to us about just that very subject.

Run_to_da_hills

The first 30,000 doses of the Jab arrives in Ireland next week. :eek:

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/ireland/2009/0828/1224253404819.html

bleg

HOORAY!!

uprising

Hello all,
I was away for a couple of days holiday from CT, while I was away I came across something that hasn't been discussed, and something also in the news about sunbed bans and am now wondering if there's a link, maybe it's just coincidence.
Anyway it seem's nobody has told us the best way to avoid flu, VITAMIN D, that's it!, not C, D!
Our main source of vitamin D is sunlight, save myself some typing so I'll post links, but anybody considering getting swine flu jabs please look further into this information BEFORE GETTING JABBED.
First some video's, please look.

VIDEO 1

VIDEO 2

VIDEO 3

VIDEO 4

VIDEO 5

Some links:

Vitamin D deficiency linked to more colds and flu....

Researchers see link between vitamin D, flu immunity

Risk Of Colds And Flu May Be Increased By Vitamin D Deficiency

Setting the people up to die: A conspiracy of silence about swine flu natural remedies, VITAMIN D

Epidemic influenza and vitamin D

So it seems the solution is more vitamin D, now with all the swine flu boloxology, no "PRO BIG PHARMA" propoganda has mentioned simple vitamin D.

I encourage people NOT to get the swine flu jab, look at the evidence, google influenza, vitamin d, actually just click it, I googled it for you.

Now here's for the conspiracy part,
WHY HAVE NONE OF THE VARIOUS SWINE FLU PROPAGANDA LEAFLETS MENTIONED VITAMIN D.

quote:
The UCLA group confirmed two other recent studies, showing that a naturally occurring steroid hormone - a hormone most of us take for granted - was, in effect, a potent antibiotic. Instead of directly killing bacteria and viruses, the steroid hormone under question increases the body's production of a remarkable class of proteins, called antimicrobial peptides. The 200 known antimicrobial peptides directly and rapidly destroy the cell walls of bacteria, fungi, and viruses, including the influenza virus, and play a key role in keeping the lungs free of infection. The steroid hormone that showed these remarkable antibiotic properties was plain old vitamin D.

King Mob

Wow.

So don't buy into the hokey miracle cure of the vaccine but buy into the miracle cure of vitamin D?

I don't think there's a doctor that'll tell you not to take vitamin D.

But why oh why do people still listen to Natural News?

uprising

King Mob wrote: »

Wow.

So don't buy into the hokey miracle cure of the vaccine but buy into the miracle cure of vitamin D?

I don't think there's a doctor that'll tell you not to take vitamin D.

But why oh why do people still listen to Natural News?

This wasn't intended for you, it's for smart people to look at and investigate for themselves.
And again your post is pure nonsense, I'm sure your a really smart person, it's just your post's are stupid and retarded, that annoy's me, remember attack the post not the poster.
Anyway in my last post there are 12 links, 1 link is to natural news, the rest are NOT, they are to what you would consider "legitimate", so please don't just quack off the first thing that comes to mind when you see I've posted, because yet again your post's will be shown for the stupidity that they contain.

NOW PLEASE IF YOU CAN, SHOW ME THAT THIS VACCINE IS BETTER THAN LOTS OF VITAMIN D......

King Mob

uprising wrote: »

This wasn't intended for you, it's for smart people to look at and investigate for themselves.
And again your post is pure nonsense, I'm sure your a really smart person, it's just your post's are stupid and retarded, that annoy's me, remember attack the post not the poster.

So what was stupid and retarded about it exactly?
The part were I commented on the irony of you decrying the vaccine as a hokey miracle (even though no one claims it is) but then claim that vitamin D is a miracle cure?
Or that most doctors and dieticians usually recommend vitamin D as well as others for a number of things?

uprising wrote: »

Anyway in my last post there are 12 links, 1 link is to natural news, the rest are NOT, they are to what you would consider "legitimate", so please don't just quack off the first thing that comes to mind when you see I've posted, because yet again your post's will be shown for the stupidity that they contain.

And it's a shame that you consider such a obviously biased and unscientific site like Natural News a reliable source at all.

The "credible" sources however don't claim that vitamin D is a cure or good enough replacement for a vaccine. If fact some of them say that the link is very tenuous.

But why exactly do you believe these scientists?

uprising wrote: »

NOW PLEASE IF YOU CAN, SHOW ME THAT THIS VACCINE IS BETTER THAN LOTS OF VITAMIN D......

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flu_vaccine#Efficacy_of_vaccine

I'm not sure there has been a comparative study but given the tenuous link I doubt there is.

Maybe you can provide a good study that shows an increase in vitamin D is as effective as vaccinations.

Captain Furball

uprising;

In video 1 the doctor says 1000 out of a million people die of the flu each year in America.So why the need to vaccinate the entire world?

The doctor in video 2 says "VITAMIN D Is a Hormone", is that true?


Video 3 they say that people who take vitamin d have 4 times lower risk to certain cancers for instance colon cancer. Some very good information so far.

the swine flu boloxology thats a good way to put it!

WHY HAVE NONE OF THE VARIOUS SWINE FLU PROPAGANDA LEAFLETS MENTIONED VITAMIN D

It's not in the interests of the companies or the governments as far as I can see.But why isn't it?Money?Or are they actually trying to reduce world population?

Anyways thanks for the information on the hormone vitamin D.
Very good.

uprising

King Mob wrote: »

So what was stupid and retarded about it exactly?
The part were I commented on the irony of you decrying the vaccine as a hokey miracle (even though no one claims it is) but then claim that vitamin D is a miracle cure?
Or that most doctors and dieticians usually recommend vitamin D as well as others for a number of things?

And it's a shame that you consider such a obviously biased and unscientific site like Natural News a reliable source at all.

The "credible" sources however don't claim that vitamin D is a cure or good enough replacement for a vaccine. If fact some of them say that the link is very tenuous.

But why exactly do you believe these scientists?


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flu_vaccine#Efficacy_of_vaccine

I'm not sure there has been a comparative study but given the tenuous link I doubt there is.

Maybe you can provide a good study that shows an increase in vitamin D is as effective as vaccinations.

Ok here we go AGAIN, I asked your post to show me that THIS VACCINE(swine flu) was better than vitamin D, your post didn't, it linked to normal flu vaccine, swine flu vaccine hasn't been tested, yet your post badly attempts to contradict mine which says vitamin D is better and in fact it will kill influenza in it's tracks, with a high enough level of vitamin D, the doctor actually does the maths for your body weight.
The video's and links were to scientist's and .gov sites that say vitamin D IS A WONDERDRUG, IT'S JUST MADE BY NATURE.
The sources DO say it's better than the swine flu jab.
With this information, that's how I conclude your post is stupid, retarded and ignorant, everything your post asked for was provided before it was asked for, yet it was still asked, go back and look again.

uprising

Captain Furball wrote: »

uprising;

In video 1 the doctor says 1000 out of a million people die of the flu each year in America.So why the need to vaccinate the entire world?

The doctor in video 2 says "VITAMIN D Is a Hormone", is that true?


Video 3 they say that people who take vitamin d have 4 times lower risk to certain cancers for instance colon cancer. Some very good information so far.

the swine flu boloxology thats a good way to put it!




It's not in the interests of the companies or the governments as far as I can see.But why isn't it?Money?Or are they actually trying to reduce world population?

Anyways thanks for the information on the hormone vitamin D.
Very good.

Yes it's very useful information, good to see some intelligent discussion, and yes Henry Kissinger has a problem, he doesn't like too many people,
http://www.scribd.com/doc/6474391/Henry-Kissinger-Population-Control-Document

King Mob

uprising wrote: »

Ok here we go AGAIN, I asked your post to show me that THIS VACCINE(swine flu) was better than vitamin D, your post didn't, it linked to normal flu vaccine, swine flu vaccine hasn't been tested, yet your post badly attempts to contradict mine which says vitamin D is better and in fact it will kill influenza in it's tracks, with a high enough level of vitamin D, the doctor actually does the maths for your body weight.

And if had been reading any of the posts in this and the other threads you see that this vaccine is very similar to the seasonal one.
The efficacy of the seasonal vaccine is the best information available.

I'd love to know how you know that vitamin D works better when as you say yourself the vaccine hasn't been tested.

But let's have a look at the links:

http://www.scientificamerican.com/blog/60-second-science/post.cfm?id=vitamin-d-deficiency-linked-to-more-2009-02-23
This article is talking about vitamin D deficiency, not using it as a cure.

http://www.jsonline.com/features/health/44680902.html
Ditto this one.
And it goes on to say:

So vitamin D's role, if any, in defending against the flu is theoretical.

And there are other explanations, also unproven, about why flu persists in the fall and winter.

And also has this quote from a lead proponent of vitamin

Holick, a co-author of the article, said the only way the issue is going to be resolved is to do a large clinical trial using a placebo and vitamin D to see if it reduces flu rates.

http://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/140123.php

Again talking about a deficiency of vitamin D, not using it as a treatment.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/16959053
This paper does not talk about using vitamin D as a treatment either.
It in fact says:

We conclude that vitamin D, or lack of it, may be Hope-Simpson's 'seasonal stimulus'.

uprising wrote: »

The video's and links were to scientist's and .gov sites that say vitamin D IS A WONDERDRUG, IT'S JUST MADE BY NATURE.
The sources DO say it's better than the swine flu jab.

None of the credible links you provide say in any way, shape or form that vitamin D is better than a vaccine.

You know what else is made by nature? The antibodies that are produced by the presence of a vaccine.
And so is hemlock and arsenic. Both are 100% natural.

uprising wrote: »

With this information, that's how I conclude your post is stupid, retarded and ignorant, everything your post asked for was provided before it was asked for, yet it was still asked, go back and look again.

And I did and none of them say what you claim they say.

And you've yet to answer the question: why do you believe these scientists?

bonkey

Uprising wrote:

I encourage people NOT to get the swine flu jab

Infracted for giving what amounts to medical advice.

As of now, anyone giving medical advice on this thread, from this point on, will be summarily banned.

Please note - this includes advising people to get the jab as equally as advising against them.

uprising

uprising wrote: »

VIDEO 1

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=15ycdbSsnAU

Another influenza season is beginning, and the U.S. Center for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC) will strongly urge Americans to get a flu shot. In fact, the CDC mounts a well-orchestrated campaign each season to generate interest and demand for flu shots.

But a recent study published in the October issue of the Archives of Pediatric & Adolescent Medicine found that vaccinating young children against the flu appeared to have no impact on flu-related hospitalizations or doctor visits during two recent flu seasons.

At first glance, the data did suggest that children between the ages of 6 months and 5 years derived some protection from vaccination in these years. But after adjusting for potentially relevant variables, the researchers concluded that "significant influenza vaccine effectiveness could not be demonstrated for any season, age, or setting" examined.

Additionally, a Group Health study found that flu shots do not protect elderly people against developing pneumonia -- the primary cause of death resulting as a complication of the flu. Others have questioned whether there is any mortality benefit with influenza vaccination. Vaccination coverage among the elderly increased from 15 percent in 1980 to 65 percent now, but there has been no decrease in deaths from influenza or pneumonia.

There is some evidence that flu shots cause Alzheimers disease, most likely as a result of combining mercury with aluminum and formaldehyde. Mercury in vaccines has also been implicated as a cause of autism.


Three other serious adverse reactions to the flu vaccine are joint inflammation and arthritis, anaphylactic shock (and other life-threatening allergic reactions), and Guillain-Barré syndrome, a paralytic autoimmune disease.

One credible hypothesis that explains the seasonal nature of flu is that influenza is a vitamin D deficiency disease.

Vitamin D levels in your blood fall to their lowest point during flu seasons. Unable to be protected by the bodys own antibiotics (antimicrobial peptides) that are released by vitamin D, a person with a low vitamin D blood level is more vulnerable to contracting colds, influenza, and other respiratory infections.

Studies show that children with rickets, a vitamin D-deficient skeletal disorder, suffer from frequent respiratory infections, and children exposed to sunlight are less likely to get a cold. The increased number of deaths that occur in winter, largely from pneumonia and cardiovascular diseases, are most likely due to vitamin D deficiency.

Unfortunately, now, for the first time, flu vaccination is also being pushed for virtually all children -- not just those under 5.

This is a huge change. Previously, flu vaccine was recommended only for youngsters under 5, who can become dangerously ill from influenza. This year, the government is recommending that children from age 6 months to 18 years be vaccinated, expanding inoculations to 30 million more school-age children.

The government argues that while older children seldom get as sick as the younger ones, it's a bigger population that catches flu at higher rates, so the change should cut missed school, and parents' missed work when they catch the illness from their children.

Of course, this policy ignores the fact that a systematic review of 51 studies involving 260,000 children age 6 to 23 months found no evidence that the flu vaccine is any more effective than a placebo.



VIDEO 2

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wcqG76TgXjM

Vitamin D can help fight off disease and illness in the body and has been suppressed in the medical field and out of public domain because vitamin D can naturally be given to us by the sun. If everyone knew vitamin D can cure and help fight off illnesses then the pharmaceutical companies and big businesses would lose money because you are no longer buying their drugs or useless sunscreen, which in actuality just makes you more ill and is more dangerous for you. That is why sunscreen is promoted and used and why chemtrails occur to not allow natural contact with the sunlight to the human body. Studies have shown that when sunscreen was introduced - the rate of skin cancer began to rise. There is nothing wrong with the sun. You are programmed by mass media and illogical and phony doctors and scientists that the sun is negative for you and you should avoid it at all costs. The sun allows life to exist on Earth. Trust that no one made a mistake when the sun was put in the sky.
Good sources of vitamin D are fortified foods and beverages like milk, soy drinks, and margarine. Check the labels on these foods. Fish, liver, and egg yolk are the only foods that naturally contain vitamin D. Obtain organic foods and produce if you can to get the best nutritional value

VIDEO 3

Vitamin D has long been known for its importance in bone health, but few people realize the many other benefits that it offers. What vitamin D can do for you, and how much to take.


VIDEO 4

The Vitamin D Cure is a breakthrough way to increase your energy, decrease your pain and slim down, using the latest scientific research.

We've long known that healthy Vitamin D levels are related to strong bones, but several recent peer-reviewed scientific studies have clearly shown that Vitamin D also decreases our risk of getting overweight and developing high blood pressure, diabetes, heart disease, arthritis, cancer, and other health problems.

This book-the only one of its kind-introduces a simple plan to increase Vitamin D levels in the body through simple, individualized supplementation with Vitamin D, carefully increased sun exposure, and exercise. Through its clear and down-to-earth five-step plan, The Vitamin D Cure shows how variations in our diet and activity levels can have a profound impact on our health and well-being. This groundbreaking program provides a broad variety of benefits: readers can increase their energy, lose weight, improve their mood, and reduce their pain.

James E. Dowd, MD, FACR (Brighton, MI) is a clinical associate professor of medicine at Michigan State University and the founder and director of both the Arthritis Institute of Michigan and the Michigan Arthritis Research Center. He has been widely published in the professional literature and has been interviewed on local TV and radio.

VIDEO 5

Updated research suggests children and teens will be stronger against several diseases if they double the current recommended dosage Vitamin D. Dr. Ian Smith explains to Julie Chen.

Some links:

Vitamin D deficiency linked to more colds and flu....

Researchers see link between vitamin D, flu immunity

Risk Of Colds And Flu May Be Increased By Vitamin D Deficiency

Setting the people up to die: A conspiracy of silence about swine flu natural remedies, VITAMIN D

Epidemic influenza and vitamin D


I encourage people to look at the evidence, google influenza, vitamin d, actually just click it, I googled it for you.

Didn't mean to give medical advice, is it ok to add information from my links? it's not my opinion, it's in the public domain already.

4gun

sick people = $$$$$
pharmaceutical companies make more money selling cold and flu remidies than they would selling cures for such, how much is the diet industry worth, its worth billions in America alone

Remember what happened to St Johns Worth in Ireland and the UK, it was a totally natural herb that had many positive health benifits but because it could not be patented it got banned
Every time you go to a GP you get a perscription of some sort or other, they get benifits in kind for perscribing whatever
How much is this so called swine flu going to cost governments globally
Pandemic my backside I've yet to meet someont that has got it every other year it was just a simple "summer flu"
wake up cos they're coming to get you

King Mob

4gun wrote: »

Every time you go to a GP you get a perscription of some sort or other, they get benifits in kind for perscribing whatever

That's just completely and utterly untrue.

I'd love to know where people get this idea.

uprising

King Mob wrote: »

That's just completely and utterly untrue.

I'd love to know where people get this idea.

Ok, but everything else he said was spot on, plus they get "gifts" from middlemen, but DEFINATELY dont get rewarded by big companies for selling their product.

King Mob

uprising wrote: »

Ok, but everything else he said was spot on, plus they get "gifts" from middlemen, but DEFINATELY dont get rewarded by big companies for selling their product.

No I was just highlighting this particular myth because it is both entirely not true yet widely believed.

uprising

Yea the way the economy is going, Imagine everybody wasn't sick, the big pharma companies would be worried, imagine they had pills that weren't needed.................................................

:eek::eek::eek: HEALTHY PEOPLE! :eek::eek::eek:

A PHARMA COMPANIES
BIGGEST NIGHTMARE

King Mob

Imagine a car company's worst nightmare: a car that works well and lasts long.

uprising

King Mob wrote: »

Imagine a car company's worst nightmare: a car that works well and lasts long.

Yea they sorted that out nicely, cost me €700 for 2 sensors, from Toyota, only "they" could do it, 2 little pieces of plastic on a 06 car.
See they make you come back periodically, but we are not machines and unlike cars we heal ourselves, have everything built-in, our immune system is so great when left be and fuelled properly.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v06YyxObm9g

ilivetolearn

King Mob wrote: »

Imagine a car company's worst nightmare: a car that works well and lasts long.

Doesn't this analogy reaffirm what uprising just said or am I reading it wrong?

King Mob

uprising wrote: »

Yea they sorted that out nicely, cost me €700 for 2 sensors, from Toyota, only "they" could do it, 2 little pieces of plastic on a 06 car.

so you're actually gonna say there's a vast conspircy by car companies to make substandard cars?

uprising wrote: »

See they make you come back periodically, but we are not machines and unlike cars we heal ourselves, have everything built-in,

Yep. Noone dies from disease ever.
And all ammuptees grow back the limbs as long as you wait a while.

uprising wrote: »

our immune system is so great when left be and fuelled properly.

Let's sort this once and for all:
Please can you explain how vaccines work?
Because I don't think you actually know.

uprising wrote: »

Videos snip.

And the other question why trust these doctors but not the ones you disagree with.

uprising

King Mob wrote: »

so you're actually gonna say there's a vast conspircy by car companies to make substandard cars?

Yep. Noone dies from disease ever.
And all ammuptees grow back the limbs as long as you wait a while.


Let's sort this once and for all:
Please can you explain how vaccines work?
Because I don't think you actually know.


And the other question why trust these doctors but not the ones you disagree with.

You tell me how "vaccines" work, because I believe you believe exactly what Baxter and Bayer will tell me (provided it's not legally binding).

So lets sort this out once and for all, All in your own words, my own words.

You tell me how vaccines work, how they effect DNA, statistic's before and after vaccines were first introduced, mortality rates among vaccinated and unvaccinated.....basically the key benefits of vaccination, and associated side effects, levels of side effect, long term effects, etc.

When you do that I'll give you the full run down on vaccines and why I am opposed to them and especially this coming trojan horse.

King Mob

uprising wrote: »

You tell me how "vaccines" work, because I believe you believe exactly what Baxter and Bayer will tell me (provided it's not legally binding).

So lets sort this out once and for all, All in your own words, my own words.

You tell me how vaccines work, how they effect DNA, statistic's before and after vaccines were first introduced, mortality rates among vaccinated and unvaccinated.....basically the key benefits of vaccination, and associated side effects, levels of side effect, long term effects, etc.

When you do that I'll give you the full run down on vaccines and why I am opposed to them and especially this coming trojan horse.

Ok one vaccine weren't invented by baxter or bayer.
Two they aren't the only ones who make them.
Three the mechanism on which vaccines work is based on medical fact.

So how exactly do vaccines work?

Why is it so hard for you to answer that one question?

ilivetolearn

King Mob wrote: »

so you're actually gonna say there's a vast conspircy by car companies to make substandard cars?

It depends on your definition of 'substandard'. Is it not fair to say that manufacturing a vehicle or electronic device with a shorter shelf life is in that companies best interests in terms of cost and resale whether inadvertent or not ?

The use of of the term 'conspiracy' seems a little pantomime. You're trying to correlate 'an industry conspiring for it's own profit' with 'an industry being utilized by an elite conspiring for depopulation who recompense the said industry by way of profit'. I'm not saying either is the case. I'm pointing out how you're correlation is flawed.

meglome

ilivetolearn wrote: »

It depends on your definition of 'substandard'. Is it not fair to say that manufacturing a vehicle or electronic device with a shorter shelf life is in that companies best interests in terms of cost and resale whether inadvertent or not ?

A company can advertise and push any product but when people start using said product they will quickly realise there is a problem. So they tell their friends that the product isn't great and they don't buy one of those products again, their friends don't buy this product either. So sales of this product slide. It's in every companies interest to make good, well priced, reliable products. Does this always happen, No but is it in their interests, Yes.

Remember word of mouth is often the best sales tool.

ilivetolearn

meglome wrote: »

A company can advertise and push any product but when people start using said product they will quickly realise there is a problem. So they tell their friends that the product isn't great and they don't buy one of those products again, their friends don't buy this product either. So sales of this product slide. It's in every companies interest to make good, well priced, reliable products. Does this always happen, No but is it in their interests, Yes.

Remember word of mouth is often the best sales tool.

Apologies. I should have preemptively addressed this as I sure enough knew that it would be offered as a rebuttal. There's a difference between 'erratic faultiness' and 'unsustainable'. Referral will indeed reprimand 'erratic faultiness' though our preconceived technological norms are receptive to and thus do not reprimand 'unsustainable' products.

IrelandSpirit

Scientists Refuse Swine Flu Vaccine:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bm3WrUDfzGg

uprising

meglome wrote: »

A company can advertise and push any product but when people start using said product they will quickly realise there is a problem. So they tell their friends that the product isn't great and they don't buy one of those products again, their friends don't buy this product either. So sales of this product slide. It's in every companies interest to make good, well priced, reliable products. Does this always happen, No but is it in their interests, Yes.

Remember word of mouth is often the best sales tool.

Yes but what happens when they hype up their "product", how we all "need it", then give it in a fairly short amount of time to as many people as possible, force them to take it in some cases, then they are fault free if somewhere down the line people notice side effects never imagined.

So Imagine a car company coming out with a new car, saying "We are not at fault if it blows up and kills you through no fault of your own, ie even if it's proved this car has multiple flaws and defects, we are not responsible", OH and by the way we never tested this car!
Would you buy this car?, encourage others to buy one?, I wouldn't.

And what when word of mouth is too late???????????

IrelandSpirit

uprising wrote: »

Yes but what happens when they hype up their "product", how we all "need it", then give it in a fairly short amount of time to as many people as possible, force them to take it in some cases, then they are fault free if somewhere down the line people notice side effects never imagined.

So Imagine a car company coming out with a new car, saying "We are not at fault if it blows up and kills you through no fault of your own, ie even if it's proved this car has multiple flaws and defects, we are not responsible", OH and by the way we never tested this car!
Would you buy this car?, encourage others to buy one?, I wouldn't.

And what when word of mouth is too late???????????

Good point Uprising, that’s a great analogy and exactly the situation we’re faced with. Many health workers themselves are saying they won’t go near this H1N1 vaccine. The issue’s not IMO a conspiracy: the danger’s of vaccination are already well-established in the mainstream, including the potential for mutation/recombination of viruses into increasingly more deadly and virulent strains due to vaccines themselves.

Found this earlier, looked interesting and so tweaked it a little:

I (Name of Physician) __________________ do hereby certify under full commercial liability that the (Name of Vaccine)_________________ vaccine being administered to the recipient (Name of Recipient)__________________ is completely safe and will not cause acute or chronic illness in the recipient due to viral contamination or as a reaction to any of the components of this vaccine.


Signature of Physician and Date__________________

Signature of 1st witness and Date __________________

Signature of 2nd witness and Date __________________

Signature of 3rd witness and Date __________________

(NB. Names printed in capitals beneath each signature)


I read it over the phone to a friend who’s a GP just now and she said she wouldn’t sign it in a fit! LOL. Seriously though, it would be interesting to see who if anybody in the Dept. of Health and Children would…

King Mob

So now we can assume that uprising hasn't a clue about how vaccination actually works.

And this points out exactly where all this anti vax nonsense comes from, misinformation and poor understand of science.

Captain Furball

King Mob wrote: »

So now we can assume that uprising hasn't a clue about how vaccination actually works.

And this points out exactly where all this anti vax nonsense comes from, misinformation and poor understand of science.

Why are you so pro vaccine?How old is the vaccine a few weeks?
And do you yourself understand how it works?

King Mob

Captain Furball wrote: »

Why are you so pro vaccine?

I'm more pro science and against misinformation like uprising is spreading than purely pro vaccine.
But all the lifes vaccination has saved would tend to put it in my good books.

Captain Furball wrote: »

How old is the vaccine a few weeks?

A few weeks older?

Captain Furball wrote: »

And do you yourself understand how it works?

Yes I understand the concept fairly well.
If you look back on this thread you'll see I've described it several times.

But I think I'll wait for uprising.

Captain Furball

King Mob wrote: »

I'm more pro science and against misinformation like uprising is spreading than purely pro vaccine.
But all the lifes vaccination has saved would tend to put it in my good books.

So your not pro vaccine?

King Mob

Captain Furball wrote: »

So your not pro vaccine?

Yes on a whole.

However to be clear I'm not saying the swine flu vaccine has been proven to be totally safe just yet.

Captain Furball

King Mob wrote: »

Yes on a whole.

However to be clear I'm not saying the swine flu vaccine has been proven to be totally safe just yet.

So your not pro vaccine.But your pro science and pro truth right?
Why don't you believe it's not yet safe as opposed to safe right now to take.

IrelandSpirit

King Mob wrote: »

I'm more pro science and against misinformation like uprising is spreading than purely pro vaccine.
But all the lifes vaccination has saved would tend to put it in my good books.

Why are you accusing Uprising of spreading misinformation?

King Mob

Captain Furball wrote: »

So your not pro vaccine.But your pro science and pro truth right?

No I support vaccination as a whole, just that this new flu vaccine isn't finished testing.

Captain Furball wrote: »

Why don't you believe it's not yet safe as opposed to safe right now to take.

Because the testing isn't quite concluded yet.

This isn't to say that the vaccine is dangerous or will be dangerous.

IrelandSpirit wrote: »

Why are you accusing Uprising of spreading misinformation?

Because a large portion of the information he provides is either untrue, unsupported or misrepresented.

Captain Furball

King Mob wrote: »

No I support vaccination as a whole, just that this new flu vaccine isn't finished testing.

Because the testing isn't quite concluded yet.

This isn't to say that the vaccine is dangerous or will be dangerous.

Because a large portion of the information he provides is either untrue, unsupported or misrepresented.

So you believe humans should not take this vaccine right now as It is not yet fully tested?So if it's not dangerous or will be dangerous, how do you know it's not dangerous, if it's not fully tested?

IrelandSpirit

King Mob wrote: »

Because a large portion of the information he provides.

I think the issue here is that the information provided by our goverment in regards vaccines is either untrue, unsupported or misrepresented - or at least it might be - that's what we're trying to get at here, this is a CP forum after all.

King Mob

Captain Furball wrote: »

So you believe humans should not take this vaccine right now as It is not yet fully tested?

I believe people should listen to trained medical professionals and not random people on the internet.

Captain Furball wrote: »

So if it's not dangerous or will be dangerous, how do you know it's not dangerous, if it's not fully tested?

I didn't say it's definitely not dangerous.
However seeing as it's based heavily on the season flu vaccine it probably isn't going to be dangerous.

Maybe someone can finally provide some scientific evidence that the vaccine is dangerous.

King Mob

IrelandSpirit wrote: »

I think the issue here is that the information provided by our goverment in regards vaccines is either untrue, unsupported or misrepresented - or at least it might be - that's what we're trying to get at here, this is a CP forum after all.

And can you point out where the information provided by the government is untrue?

IrelandSpirit

That's the issue here i agree, the vaccine's not tested and it appears it's gonna be tested on us this winter, on our children and loved ones. I'd want a GP or MP to sign an affidavit under full commercial liability declaring it's safe before anything - this is our health and lives we're talking about.

King Mob

IrelandSpirit wrote: »

That's the issue here i agree, the vaccine's not tested and it appears it's gonna be tested on us this winter, on our children and loved ones.

That's just not true.
The vaccine is currently being tested in a number of ways.