International opinion of Ireland?

Bob Z

Whats the international opinion of Ireland and the way we are handling the recession? Are we the laughing stock? Or do they think we are handling it ok? Other countries like Britain seem to have a different approach in that they are cutting VAT while we are putting it up

dennistuam

on a visit to poland last week ,it was impossible not to be struck by the enormous progress made by the country over the last five years.
EU entry has had the most profound effects on its farmers ands its people

Everyone we met was aware of the financial choas in ireland-
Humiliatingly,we were no longer held up as the model to be copied
but rather one to be avoided

irishturkey

i would have imagined that polands current prosperity is the same prosperity we had starting 20 years ago when we weren't firmly lodged up our own rectums

irish_bob

from talking to foreigners , the impression i get from them is that we have a redicolously generous wellfare system in this country and our nurses , police and teachers are on insanely high wages , this is from talking to britts , dutch and germans

irishturkey

i don't mean to come across as the racist bigot here however...

there's a slovakian guy working with me, i don't know his name, he's known as the green giant but he enrolled his kids in school here for three months to get them started on the childrens allowance and once the money started coming in for that he packed the family off back to slovakia again. surely im not the only one who thinks thats just wrong? its what pisses me off about this country. we're being screwed by our own law makers and the alternative are really just "diet fianna fail". i imagine eastern eurpe has a great opinion of ireland but as for the "superpowers" of europe if thats what you want to call them, i'd say they're pretty disgusted with us. i know i am

Fat_Fingers

loopholes are there to be exploited by people. Its wrong for people to claim the benefit they are not entitled be that by stretching the legal understanding of children allowance or bringing their old parents here so they can get old age pension and medical card ( i hear this one is very popular) but that is nothing new. Irish have milked British system for decades so why outrage now? Law makers should close loopholes and i think they will simple because there is no more money.
I think previous poster is correct, i have come across same response. Eastern Europeans think its great country, friendly people, very generous benefits system. My German friends ( i lived in Germany for a few years) think this is banana republic, everyone is corrupt from top to bottom. Actually i was told Ireland is like Italy but without nice climate, nice food and we have more scumbags per population then Italy. Eh, i was taken back by that especially coming from country that has in 80's and 90's purchased lots of holiday homes in Ireland and generally had a soft spot for Ireland. Their bad opinion is probably influenced in large by bad press Ireland is receiving in German papers. However i cant say i disagree with them too much...

jimmmy

irish_bob wrote: »

from talking to foreigners , the impression i get from them is that we have a redicolously generous wellfare system in this country and our nurses , police and teachers are on insanely high wages , this is from talking to britts , dutch and germans

Very true. Plus our retired public servants are on insanely high pensions as well, by international standards.

Riskymove

jimmmy wrote: »

Very true. Plus our retired public servants are on insanely high pensions as well, by international standards.

welcome back jimmmy, i missed you:rolleyes:

Sand

Is Jimmmy wrong?

TBH, Ireland was probably entirely too pleased with itself even 2 years ago. We rubbed our European partners up the wrong way ( Lisbon treaty rejection for entirely crazed imaginary reasons such as forced abortions and imaginary conscription into an imaginary Euro army, plus the German Ambassador and various other "incidents") and the Germans practically invented schaudenfreude so its hardly surprising our stock has dramatically fallen.

But knocking some git down when hes get too big for his boots is a cherished Irish pass time so we ought to be pleased. Its great being spiritual and non-materialistic again, isnt it?

irishturkey

Sand wrote: »

Is Jimmmy wrong?

We rubbed our European partners up the wrong way ( Lisbon treaty rejection for entirely crazed imaginary reasons such as forced abortions and imaginary conscription into an imaginary Euro army, plus the German Ambassador and various other "incidents")

Personally I voted against Lisbon because there was absolutely no effort made by any party to really educate people about what the treaty had going for and against it. The last thing I was going to vote for was what essentially boiled down to a load of words and the main parties saying "go for it, it'll be great". A few flyers in the door isn't enough and half arsed debates on Primetime aren't enough either. There was little or no unbiased information offered to help people decide what to do. Am I alone in this?

However I do agree about some people voting against it because of the rubbish put out by Ganley and his cohorts and those who shall remain nameless.. you'll know who I mean when i mention "he of the bearded face standing in the name of republicanism"

Riskymove

Sand wrote: »

Is Jimmmy wrong?

in a tar everyone with same brush kinda way he is

in any event my post is more about his MO

if I kept going into various threads and posting

"I agree...PLUS here's my little hobby horse" I think it would grow tiresome


Thread on McDonalds..."I like McDonalds" "typical" Jimmy response "So do I.....plus our public servants are on very high pensions"

etc

solice

International Opinion of Ireland:

The following table is from the IMD World Competitiveness Yearbook. IMD is a swiss oganisation. The ranking is not just based on our economy but also covers infrastructure, education system, leagal structure, strength of governement, peoples attitutde etc...There are over 300 different criteria used to get the results, not just economic.

THE TOP 20 (OUT OF 57)

Country Rank 2008 Rank 2009
USA 1 1
Hong Kong 3 2
Singapore 2 3
Switzerland 4 4
Denmark 6 5
Sweden 9 6
Australia 7 7
Canada 8 8
Finland 15 9
Netherlands 10 10
Norway 11 11
Luxembourg 5 12
Germany 16 13
Qatar - 14
New Zealand 18 15
Austria 14 16
Japan 22 17
Malaysia 19 18
Ireland 12 19
China 17 20

The result aint good!

irish_bob

solice wrote: »

International Opinion of Ireland:

The following table is from the IMD World Competitiveness Yearbook. IMD is a swiss oganisation. The ranking is not just based on our economy but also covers infrastructure, education system, leagal structure, strength of governement, peoples attitutde etc...There are over 300 different criteria used to get the results, not just economic.

THE TOP 20 (OUT OF 57)

Country Rank 2008 Rank 2009
USA 1 1
Hong Kong 3 2
Singapore 2 3
Switzerland 4 4
Denmark 6 5
Sweden 9 6
Australia 7 7
Canada 8 8
Finland 15 9
Netherlands 10 10
Norway 11 11
Luxembourg 5 12
Germany 16 13
Qatar - 14
New Zealand 18 15
Austria 14 16
Japan 22 17
Malaysia 19 18
Ireland 12 19
China 17 20

The result aint good!

i can out spook that

we were in the top 5 at the begining of this decade

jimmmy

Riskymove wrote: »

in a tar everyone with same brush kinda way he is

I am not tarring everyone with the same brush. In response to someones comment "
from talking to foreigners , the impression i get from them is that we have a redicolously generous wellfare system in this country and our nurses , police and teachers are on insanely high wages , this is from talking to britts , dutch and germans"

I merely added " Very true. Plus our retired public servants are on insanely high pensions as well, by international standards.". My point was this country is not only spending billions on the actaul salaries of the "nurses , police and teachers" the other poster was referring to, but much money is spent on their pensions, which is a proportion of their salaries. This is a huge drain on the Irish economy...you do not need to talk to the " britts , dutch and germans " the other poster referred to, to be aware of this. Maybe those on these disproportionate govt handouts would prefer if people did not mention them, but is the scandal that is the elephant in the room when people are talking about the Irish economy now.

BroomBurner

You're dead on, Jimmmy. I agree that all public servants shouldn't be paid back for their 40 years of service.

Riskymove

jimmmy wrote: »

I merely added " Very true. Plus our retired public servants are on insanely high pensions as well, by international standards.".

indeed, not some public servants or any attempt to qualify that

i.e. tar all with same brush

I can tell you that there are plenty of retired public servants not on "insanely high" pensions

rugbyman

irishturkey wrote: »

Personally I voted against Lisbon because there was absolutely no effort made by any party to really educate people about what the treaty had going for and against it. The last thing I was going to vote for was what essentially boiled down to a load of words and the main parties saying "go for it, it'll be great". A few flyers in the door isn't enough and half arsed debates on Primetime aren't enough either. There was little or no unbiased information offered to help people decide what to do.[] Am I alone in this?[/]

However I do agree about some people voting against it because of the rubbish put out by Ganley and his cohorts and those who shall remain nameless.. you'll know who I mean when i mention "he of the bearded face standing in the name of republicanism"

Am I alone in this?[/] you are not alone, but you are one of thousands who have admitted that they voted NO for no good reason, or not even for a weak reason.

regretably our image abroad is a reflection of the NO voters,( I cannot say all voting for the wrong reason, but I can say i have not heard of any good reason).

As a matter of interest ,n ot meaning to get at you, but how will you vote next time?

Regards,Rugbyman

irishturkey

rugbyman wrote: »

Am I alone in this?[/] you are not alone, but you are one of thousands who have admitted that they voted NO for no good reason, or not even for a weak reason.

regretably our image abroad is a reflection of the NO voters,( I cannot say all voting for the wrong reason, but I can say i have not heard of any good reason).

As a matter of interest ,n ot meaning to get at you, but how will you vote next time?

Regards,Rugbyman

I can't honestly say for sure. Last time there were seeds of doubt sown about neutrality, right to life and other sovereignty issues, whether they were real challenges to our own constitution or not I don't know but I am encouraged that An Taoiseach has made a conscious effort this time to go and guarantee that we have control over these issues and make it public that he was doing so.

As for voting "no for no good reason", I think thats slightly unfair. If you don't inform people about what they're voting for, which the government have admitted to, its hard to blame them when they vote against it. If they had made a sufficient effort first time round to inform people about the treaty, we wouldn't have the need for a repeat. To a degree I can understand why they've decided to hold another referendum, they know themselves that last time was an unmitigated disaster of their own making. But a part of me finds it insulting to be asked to vote yes or no and when the people have spoken, they come back and tell us we made the wrong choice and we should try again. Should this referendum fail to pass will they come back with another rehashed version and tell us to try again?

Its like the company I work for. We're currently having a dispute with management and our union asked for a mandate for industrial action. When the workers voted against it, the union came back and said we should have voted for it.

rugbyman

irish Turkey,

thank you for your reply.

I honestly dont mean to be personal or offensive, but if you look at your stated reason for voting No
"
because there was absolutely no effort made by any party to really educate people about what the treaty had going for and against it. "

With respect, i do not think that was agood reason to vote NO. Had you studied what stuff there was out there to read and voted on what you felt then, that would have been a reasonable decision.

i think that the reasons given by many people for voting No, that they did not understand it were good reasons for abstaining.

As I say IrishTurkey, nothing personal. it takes all sorts to make a world.

regards,Rugbyman

irishturkey

rugbyman wrote: »

irish Turkey,

thank you for your reply.

I honestly dont mean to be personal or offensive, but if you look at your stated reason for voting No
"
because there was absolutely no effort made by any party to really educate people about what the treaty had going for and against it. "

With respect, i do not think that was agood reason to vote NO. Had you studied what stuff there was out there to read and voted on what you felt then, that would have been a reasonable decision.

i think that the reasons given by many people for voting No, that they did not understand it were good reasons for abstaining.

As I say IrishTurkey, nothing personal. it takes all sorts to make a world.

regards,Rugbyman

No offense taken

FutureTaoiseach

We can take heart from the recovery of Irish exports, which almost alone in the developed world and in the EU are actually growing. They rose 5% in April at €7.8 billion. This compares with a 29% fall in Germany in the same period. They fell by 9% in the UK in January. Plainly, there remains a strong appetite for Irish exports. Imho, out of the wreckage of the housing-crash will come an Irish economy reorientated towards exports and away from construction. This will provide more sustainable growth in the longer-term.

solice

FutureTaoiseach wrote:

We can take heart from the recovery of Irish exports, which almost alone in the developed world and in the EU are actually growing. They rose 5% in April at €7.8 billion. This compares with a 29% fall in Germany in the same period. They fell by 9% in the UK in January. Plainly, there remains a strong appetite for Irish exports. Imho, out of the wreckage of the housing-crash will come an Irish economy reorientated towards exports and away from construction. This will provide more sustainable growth in the longer-term.

I heard recently but I cannot find any evidence to support it that investment by US companies in Ireland was greater than the investment by US companies in the BRIC (Brazil, Russia, India and China) countries combined in 2008.

Can anyone find a source for this? If it is true, it would support those statistics. I too believe that we need to grow our economy from an international point of view of exporting as opposed to relying on our own spending power

maninasia

FutureTaoiseach wrote: »

We can take heart from the recovery of Irish exports, which almost alone in the developed world and in the EU are actually growing. They rose 5% in April at €7.8 billion. This compares with a 29% fall in Germany in the same period. They fell by 9% in the UK in January. Plainly, there remains a strong appetite for Irish exports. Imho, out of the wreckage of the housing-crash will come an Irish economy reorientated towards exports and away from construction. This will provide more sustainable growth in the longer-term.

This statistic is a load of cack. Go to an Irish jobsite an type in export sales manager and see how many positions are available..frighteningly few. Check what Irish companies have exports to Asia..almost none, the world's biggest market.
The above statistic is probably due to currency fluctuation between dollars, euro and sterling. There are factory closures almost every day around the country....

gurramok

It is indeed bull.

Most of that export strongness is due to the pharmaceutical sector

According to Dr O’Toole part of the reason for this was the strength of the pharmaceutical sector here which was largely “recession proof” and accounted for over half of all goods exports.

As FT kindly left out, one sector cannot generate jobs for everyone.

craichoe

maninasia wrote: »

This statistic is a load of cack. Go to an Irish jobsite an type in export sales manager and see how many positions are available..frighteningly few. Check what Irish companies have exports to Asia..almost none, the world's biggest market.
The above statistic is probably due to currency fluctuation between dollars, euro and sterling. There are factory closures almost every day around the country....

??

All of the premium beef sold by the largest chain store in the Netherlands, Albert Heijn is Irish beef.

Population of 16.3 Million people.

Kerrygold butter and other products are sold in almost every store in Germany, they have a massive depot just outside Krefeld in Nordrhein Westfalen.

Population of 82.5 Million People

Murphys is sold in lots of places in the Czech Republic and Guinness of course is sold almost everywhere around the world.

We do have exports ya know

I live in Continental Europe and the quality of Life in Ireland is in my opinion alot better, the only thing in Ireland I cannot handle is the public transport, or lack of. I think Irish people have a 'grass is greener' attitude when it comes to Continental Europe.

Interesting the opinions of Eastern Europeans seem to be of Ireland not being the cashcow it once was, strange that you only notice once the milk runs out.

The Dutch and the Germans don't know much about Ireland beyond us being a nation of heavy drinkers and that U2 are from there.

Boskowski

Let's not fool ourselves. Nobody gives a sh1t really. If they do it's probably along the lines of: 'Celtic Tiger? In your face, hahaha', 'Crazy prices', 'Rains a lot'...

irish_bob

realcam wrote: »

Let's not fool ourselves. Nobody gives a sh1t really. If they do it's probably along the lines of: 'Celtic Tiger? In your face, hahaha', 'Crazy prices', 'Rains a lot'...

the germans care as they are the ones buying our debt for the most part

blues2

In answer to the first question, I dont think our internation opinion is very good. I moved to Australia in February and have a lot of Australia people say to me I hear Ireland is in trouble.
Dont get me wrong, there are jobs being lost here, but they avoided recession. Probably because they gave a $900 bonus to workers who then went out and bought stuff like tv's and stimulated the economy.
Because the r word was avoided i think public confidence is high and people will still go out to restaurants/cafe's/etc without feeling guilty (which is what i think people in ireland probably feel).

Aren't banks in the US now saying the recession is over too and post billion $ profits for first half of '09?

I really hope it turns around in Ireland. It's such a shame how much things have changed in such a short time.

DTrotter

blues2 wrote: »

In answer to the first question, I dont think our internation opinion is very good. I moved to Australia in February and have a lot of Australia people say to me I hear Ireland is in trouble.

Dont get me wrong, there are jobs being lost here, but they avoided recession. Probably because they gave a $900 bonus to workers who then went out and bought stuff like tv's and stimulated the economy.
Because the r word was avoided i think public confidence is high and people will still go out to restaurants/cafe's/etc without feeling guilty (which is what i think people in ireland probably feel).

Aren't banks in the US now saying the recession is over too and post billion $ profits for first half of '09?

I really hope it turns around in Ireland. It's such a shame how much things have changed in such a short time.

Or probably because they didn't have a glorified pyramid scheme keeping the country going and having no one planning ahead.

Scofflaw

irish_bob wrote: »

The following table is from the IMD World Competitiveness Yearbook. IMD is a swiss oganisation. The ranking is not just based on our economy but also covers infrastructure, education system, leagal structure, strength of governement, peoples attitutde etc...There are over 300 different criteria used to get the results, not just economic.

i can out spook that

we were in the top 5 at the begining of this decade

I remember seeing us at number 3 in gold letters in the lobby of the Singapore Enterprise Development Agency - 1999/2000. It felt pretty good, particularly for someone who could remember the Eighties.

Time for us to pull our socks back up.

cordially,
Scofflaw

dermo88

We were in the top 5 at the start of the decade because the Euro was trading at a much lower level vis a vis the US Dollar, Pound Sterling and other International currencies.

Our Government forgot the following:

1. We are in a currency Union, therefore our costs have to be kept under control.

2. Costs have to be kept on a level comparable with other countries within the currency union, otherwise people will spend their money elsewhere.

3. Our Central Bank failed to regulate.

4. Our Government allowed the party to carry on, issusing such awful comments as:

"The boom is getting boomier" (Bertie Ahern)
"If you complain about high prices, shop around" (Mary Harney)
"The doommongers should commit suicide" (Bertie Ahern)

People never had it so good until 2006. The problem is, when you are seeing the stars, its a long way back to earth. People forgot where earth was, and that was seen in the form of insane property prices. Between 1999 and now, we went from 4th cheapest to 2nd dearest within the Eurozone.

If we compared prices in 2001-2002 to now, in terms of fairly ordinary items, I can show where our competitiveness disappeared to. Unfortunately, most of the increases came in the form of indirect taxation and on Government/Semi State services. The private sector, bar the likes of the Vintners Federation, Health, Insurance, Legal, did their best to keep things under control, and bore the brunt of a lot of the penalties from populist policies. By and large, it takes 50 Euro today to purchase what 20 Pounds purchased in 1999/2000, a rough doubling of prices. Our European neighbours saw a 30% increase in prices in the same period. This recession is only a restructuring where our costs fall and are brought back into line, or lower. But our "Government" don't realise that, and when they do, it will be too late.