Michael Jackson - RIP [Discuss tastefully (no cruel jokes) here]

BaZmO*

keefg wrote: »

Good point, or someone somewhere will dig up some "long lost, never released" material that's been sitting in some studio basement.

Maybe we'll have another Tupac on our hands, sure didn't "he" release more material after his death?

I'd barely heard of Tupac when he died. I was over in the States at the time and was like "who?"
And tbh, I'd imagine most Irish people were the same at the time.

MJ is a different level though. I wouldn't say there's too many people in the world that haven't heard of him. Now that's being famous!

Declan A Walsh

First off, I should make clear that I would not have been a big fan of Michael Jackson's music (or stuff he did with his brothers) in general - it just did not tie in with my usual music tastes.

That said, I do believe he was a very talented entertainer as a singer, dancer, songwriter and not least as a performer. The word "genius" certainly could be applied to Michael and he was pretty unique. Undoubtedly, he was used as a template or inspiration by a number of artistes that followed him- particularly in R & B and in black-oriented music.

The circumstances of his life (outside of his music) and his death were very tragic. No-one can take away from that, even those who persist in seeing him in a sinister light.

Going back to the music, my feelings towards his material could be quite instructive, coming as they do from someone who could not be called a fan.
So here we go....

I have to admit, if I am being honest, that one or two songs by him (and a couple with his brothers) have stood the test of time. There were always some songs that I could tolerate, albeit not over-enthusiastically. I have even mellowed over some songs which I was not mad about originally, especially the stuff he did on "Off The Wall", such as "Rock With You" and "Don't Stop 'Till You Get Enough". Bizarrely, I used to like "Earth Song" from the '90s and am not as keen on it as initially. "Smooth Criminal" I recognoise belatedly as a good song.

The "Thriller" album certainly had some merit for me, even if it was begrudgingly! I have mellowed over the title track and "Wanna Be Starting Something" and I always had a love/hate relationship with "Beat It".
But one song I always liked by Michael and is most definitely my favourite song by him is "Human Nature". It seems to be one of those songs that people have forgotten about it, even though it was sampled for SUV's hit in the '90s "Right Here". I just love the whole atmosphere and soundscape of that song.

Michael's death seems to have left some mark on me, more so than he ever did when he was alive. R.I.P.

The_Joker

Say the words "the king" to anyone, who will they think of first?......Elvis.

keefg wrote: »

Biggest differences between Elvis & Jackson is that Elvis was a well managed "act" with an incredible voice & look who was pretty much told what to sing & do by his manager. He did it all first and he was the King, no doubt about that but his creative intput was very minimal. All of his songs were written by various songwriters and his early image was very much controlled (as well as his finances unfortunately ) by Col. Parker.

Elvis' early image was his own, even in his teens going to school he was the guy that stood out in the crowd with the slick back hair and high collars (he liked the james dean look), he carried and developed his own image right the way through his career, the idea for his glittery jump suits in the late 60's through the 70's come from none other than Liberace, parker got the gigs and Elvis done his thing.

Elvis arranged the music and vocals in nearly all the songs he sang, he didn't pen many songs his passion was the music and singing the songs. And boy he did some job.

keefg wrote: »

Jackson was labelled the "King of Pop".

Jackson labelled himself the "king of pop"
Elvis got the label the "King of rock & roll" or to be more accurate "The King" from his fans.

<Ollie> wrote: »

Elvis did more for Rock 'n roll than any artist, ever. If anyone doesn't acknowledge the impact he has had on popular music, then I don't know...

+ 1

keefg wrote: »

LOL.....have you seen his films?

I've seen his 31 films, he was a good actor but the parts and films he was given were rubbish.
All thanks to that so called manager and self titled Dutch plonker "Colonel" Parker.
Parker signed the 31 movie deal which Elvis couldn't get out of, same thing happened in vegas in the 70's (thanks to parkers gambling debts) at times Elvis was doing 2 concerts a day, now if that didn't drive him into the ground nothing did.

I've said it before and i'll say it again.......the nearest Jacko ever got to being King was marrying the Kings daughter.

This Jacko v Elvis debate could go on forever.....who had more No 1's Elvis 18 - Jacko 13 (as a solo artist) etc etc

But still when all is said and done he had some cracking tunes.
Good on you MJ

The_Joker

niallon wrote: »

No, I have to disagree. I'm a huge Elvis fan myself but personally I feel MJ did more for music than Elvis ever could have. Whereas Elvis was the one who brought a revolutionary style of music to the front in a time that was screaming for it, MJ brought his own revolutionary style of music to the front in a time that, to be honest, already had its fair share of rulebreakers and style changers. Elvis of course has to be credited with daring to take a major leap and forever change rock and roll but MJ to me is the king for taking a leap when sitting still would have been just as profitable and acceptable.

The King

The man who wanted to be king

Different times different icons.

BaZmO*

Declan A Walsh wrote: »

...."Human Nature". It seems to be one of those songs that people have forgotten about it, even though it was sampled for SUV's hit in the '90s "Right Here"

I know I'm being pedantic but they were called SWV (Sisters With Voices) not SUV (Sports Utility Vehicle)

The_Joker wrote: »

Elvis' early image was his own, even in his teens going to school he was the guy that stood out in the crowd with the slick back hair and high collars (he liked the james dean look), he carried and developed his own image right the way through his career, the idea for his glittery jump suits in the late 60's through the 70's come from none other than Liberace, parker got the gigs and Elvis done his thing.

You say that his image was his own but then go on to say that he copied James Dean and Liberace? How was his image his own then?

The_Joker

The_Joker wrote: »

Elvis' early image was his own, even in his teens going to school he was the guy that stood out in the crowd with the slick back hair and high collars (he liked the james dean look), he carried and developed his own image right the way through his career, the idea for his glittery jump suits in the late 60's through the 70's come from none other than Liberace, parker got the gigs and Elvis done his thing.

BaZmO* wrote: »

You say that his image was his own but then go on to say that he copied James Dean and Liberace? How was his image his own then?

:confused:
Read it again, I said he liked the James Dean look and he got the idea for his glittery jump suits from Liberace, I didn't say he copied anyone, there’s a difference

BaZmO* wrote: »

know I'm being pedantic but they were called SWV (Sisters With Voices) not SUV (Sports Utility Vehicle)

:D

BaZmO*

The_Joker wrote: »

:confused:
Read it again, I said he liked the James Dean look and he got the idea for his glittery jump suits from Liberace, I didn't say he copied anyone, there’s a difference

Idea/Copied. Seems the same thing to me.

Sir Molle

The_Joker wrote: »

Say the words "the king" to anyone, who will they think of first?......Elvis.

Add "of PoP" to that and everyone will know who you are talking about too.

The_Joker wrote: »

Jackson labelled himself the "king of pop"
Elvis got the label the "King of rock & roll" or to be more accurate "The King" from his fans.

Incorrect. He was named this by Elizabeth Taylor at an award ceremony. He was named as the king of "pop rock and soul" and the title has stuck with him since with the fans.

The_Joker wrote: »

I've said it before and i'll say it again.......the nearest Jacko ever got to being King was marrying the Kings daughter.

They aren't competing for the title of "the King". "The King" is Elvis's title" and "The king of pop" is mikes title. If you're talking about the affect both had on society, they are probably equals in this respect. The difference was that Elvis would have been pretty much limited to the UK and the US where as Michael Jackson's legacy was a global thing.

keefg

And Elvis was an obvious inspiration for this eejit so he loses a few points there

The_Joker

BaZmO* wrote: »

Idea/Copied. Seems the same thing to me.

What !
Copied - Reproduce or make an exact copy of. A thing made to be similar or identical to another thing.
Idea - The content of cognition; the main thing you are thinking about
Get it right will you …… jeez

Sir Molle wrote: »

Incorrect. He was named this by Elizabeth Taylor at an award ceremony. He was named as the king of "pop rock and soul" and the title has stuck with him since with the fans.

Exactly He was not given the title by his fans like Elvis was.
The king of pop, rock and soul! So his title changed again has it?

Sir Molle wrote: »

Add "of PoP" to that and everyone will know who you are talking about too.

Add “Of The jungle” and……..

Sir Molle wrote: »

Elvis would have been pretty much limited to the UK and the US where as Michael Jackson's legacy was a global thing.

Elvis limited to the US and UK LOL ah now come on
So Elvis is only known in the US and UK and nowhere else in the world by your reckoning!

Sir Molle wrote: »

"The King" is Elvis's title"

Finally you got it right.

The_Joker

keefg wrote: »

And Elvis was an obvious inspiration for this eejit so he loses a few points there

Hmmmmm Yeah I can see elvis standing behind him saying go on you can be just like me, and all the other thousands of gob****es who try to impersonate him :rolleyes:

keefg

The_Joker wrote: »

Hmmmmm Yeah I can see elvis standing behind him saying go on you can be just like me, and all the other thousands of gob****es who try to impersonate him :rolleyes:

:rolleyes: yerself!!

It was an obvious joke.....who the feck stepped on your blue suede shoes anyway :mad:

Sir Molle

What? His title never changed. He was given the title "The king of pop, rock, and soul" by Elizabeth Taylor. This was the exact moment here:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W3O99pKuYe8

He never adopted this himself. The fans picked up on it and gave him the title. It was entirely the fans. The fans adopted the title "King of Pop" which was a shortened version of "The king of Pop, Rock and Soul".

The_Joker wrote: »

Add “Of The jungle” and……..

Thanks for adding this extremely constructive part of your post to this discussion.

The_Joker wrote: »

Elvis limited to the US and UK LOL ah now come on
So Elvis is only known in the US and UK and nowhere else in the world by your reckoning!

You keep reading things in my posts that are not there. The majority of Elvis's fan base was in the US and the UK. Fact. I never said that there were no fans else where or that his fame was limited to these countries. Read what I write, not what you want to see. Thanks.

The_Joker wrote: »

Finally you got it right.

I never had "it" wrong. You're posting as if there's some giant competition between Michael Jackson fans proclaiming the title "The King" for Michael Jackson and Elvis fans for the same title. This was and is never the case. There are two different titles for two different men. It's not a competition, I don't know why you're posting as if it were.

The_Joker

keefg wrote: »

:rolleyes: yerself!!

It was an obvious joke.....who the feck stepped on your blue suede shoes anyway :mad:

LOL I was being sarcastic about the rubbish impersonators
I know it was a joke....relax

The_Joker

Sir Molle wrote: »

You keep reading things in my posts that are not there. The majority of Elvis's fan base was in the US and the UK. Fact. I never said that there were no fans else where or that his fame was limited to these countries. Read what I write, not what you want to see. Thanks.

I never had "it" wrong. You're posting as if there's some giant competition between Michael Jackson fans proclaiming the title "The King" for Michael Jackson and Elvis fans for the same title. This was and is never the case. There are two different titles for two different men. It's not a competition, I don't know why you're posting as if it were.

As i said different times different icons.
There could never be a competition, two completely different leagues, Elvis being in the higher one of course And he was and still is The King ever before Jacko.

When people post things like "forget Elvis jacko is the The King" it's just naïve.[/font]

Elvis would have been pretty much limited to the UK and the US where as Michael Jackson's legacy was a global thing

Sir Molle wrote: »

The majority of Elvis's fan base was in the US and the UK. Fact.

That is what you wrote and exactly what I read.
There is no fact in the UK, US Elvis fanbase, it is global plain and simple.

What are you getting so worked up about?
This is a light hearted discussion not an argument

betty_swollox

Sir Molle wrote: »

You keep reading things in my posts that are not there. The majority of Elvis's fan base was in the US and the UK. Fact. I never said that there were no fans else where or that his fame was limited to these countries. Read what I write, not what you want to see. Thanks.

Jaysus all he was doing was qouting you.
Anyway there's no way Jackson could come close to Elvis not a hope!

"Before Elvis there was nothing" - John lennon

RIP Michael.

Sir Molle

I'm not getting worked up about anything. You are simply wrong.

Furkin_Bastage

Sir Molle wrote: »

I'm not getting worked up about anything. You are simply wrong.

I don't think he is wrong at all
Michael is the king of pop
Elvis is simply The King, end of.

And another point Elizabeth Taylor said "in my estimation" the joker is right Elvis was given his title by the fans and not by some has been at a music awards ceremony now there's a FACT for you.


Rest In Peace MJ

Sir Molle

Furkin_Bastage wrote: »

I don't think he is wrong at all
Michael is the king of pop
Elvis is simply The King, end of.

And another point Elizabeth Taylor said "in my estimation" the joker is right Elvis was given his title by the fans and not by some has been at a music awards ceremony now there's a FACT for you.


Rest In Peace MJ

Jesus... read the last couple of posts.

Furkin_Bastage

Sir Molle wrote: »

Jesus... read the last couple of posts.

I did and your point is?

Originally Posted by Sir Molle

Elvis would have been pretty much limited to the UK and the US where as Michael Jackson's legacy was a global thing

The majority of Elvis's fan base was in the US and the UK. Fact.

The mind boggles at that so called fact

Sir Molle

Furkin_Bastage wrote: »

I did and your point is?

My point is that nobody is contesting that Elvis's title is the "The King" and Mike's is "The King of Pop". So stop shitting up this thread.

Furkin_Bastage

Sir Molle wrote: »

My point is that nobody is contesting that Elvis's title is the "The King" and Mike's is "The King of Pop". So stop shitting up this thread.

What age are you 14? That's some chip you have on your shoulder

Oh I'm sorry I thought this was a discussion revolving around Michael jackson which might include music and other artists I must have misread the title!!
Michael Jackson - RIP [Discuss tastefully (no cruel jokes) here]

I'll "stop shitting up this thread" then as you so elegantly put it!

Sir Molle

You're right. A thread about Michael Jackson is probably the most suitable place on boards.ie for your little Elvis Presley circle jerking session.

Sir Molle

I guess I'll just add you to my ignore list, nbd.

walshb

As far as solo performes go, I don't believe any single performer
in history was as all around magnificent as Wacko at peak.

Elvis was phenomenal with an amazing voice and major
charisma and stage presence, but I think Jacko had
that little bit extra. Jacko has been a born entertainer
since a very young age.

Looking at him as a young ten or eleven year old, he was
magnetic and so talented and it continued thru the
70's and into the 80's and up to the 90's.

His catalog of tracks are superb with so many good
and great hits. It would be very hard
not to like the majority of them

niallon

The_Joker wrote: »

When people post things like "forget Elvis jacko is the The King" it's just naïve.

Or it's just my opinion. Jesus, I express one sentiment and a whole rollercoaster ensues. I personally believe that MJ is above Elvis when it comes to music. End of. Any chance this thread could return to what it's supposed to be, one remembering and mourning the passing of Michael Jackson?

StevieG

I've done a mix of mainly his soul stuff, free download here at

http://djstevieg.podomatic.com/entry/eg/2009-07-02T12_41_03-07_00



Darling Dear
It's Your Thing
Don't Let It Get You Down
ABC
The Young Folks
2-4-6-8
People Make The World Go 'Round
We've Got A Good Thing Going
In Our Small Way
Got To Be There
La La (Means I Love You)
Good Times
Rockin' Robin
That's What Love Is Made Of
Corner Of The Sky
Sugar Daddy
One More Chance
When I Come Of Age
Call On Me
Maria (You Were The Only One)
I'll Bet You
Happy
It's Too Late To Change The Time
Who's Loving You
Music And Me
Everybody's Sombody's Fool
Ain't No Sunshine
Ben
Break of Dawn
We're Almost There
I'll Be There
Human Nature
I Can't Help It
Don't Know Why I Love You
I Wanna Be Where You Are
Girlfriend
Get It Together
It's The Falling In Love
Liberian Girl (Giuliodj Edit)
Girl You're So Together
I Want You Back (The Jackson 5)
Take Me Back
Make Tonight All Mine
Love Song
Touch
Mama's Pearl
Who's Looking For A Lover
Melodie
Girl, Don't Take Your Love From Me
Lonely Teardrops
Maybe Tomorrow
Never Can Say Goodbye
Medley: Sing A Simple Song/Can You Remeber - At The Hollywood Palace
The Lady In My Life
One Day In Your Life
She's Out Of My Life
All I Do Is Think Of You

Here is a free download of part 1 of a two part mix, paying tribute to the soul music of the King of Pop. Mostly concentrating on the early Jackson 5 years with one or two of his later tracks aswell, there are plenty of lessor known gems in there. Part 2 concentrates on the dance-floor and is coming in the next few days!

http://djstevieg.podomatic.com/entry/eg/2009-07-02T12_41_03-07_00


Also, I'm posting 50 of my favourite Motown tracks to my blog in the next couple of weeks first few are up at http://steviegblog.blogspot.com

here's my free Motown mix btw

http://djstevieg.podomatic.com/entry/eg/2009-01-13T18_06_50-08_00

dimejinky99

the complete actual will has been released..
http://www.etonline.com/documents/et_jacksonwill.pdf

excerpt...
ET has obtained the will to music legend Michael Jackson.

Jackson's will was filed Wednesday morning in Los Angeles. The papers state that the King of Pop leaves his entire estate to the Michael Jackson Family Trust.

The 5-page will confirms that Katherine Jackson was appointed by her son to take custody over her three grandchildren and Diana Ross was appointed as guardian if Katherine is unable or unwilling to care for them.

The will also reads in regards to Jackson's young children and his former wife, "Except as otherwise provided in this Will or in the Trust hereof, I have intentionally omitted to provide for my heirs. I have intentionally omitted to provide for my forner wife, Deborah Jean Rowe."

joe123

walshb wrote: »

As far as solo performes go, I don't believe any single performer
in history was as all around magnificent as Wacko at peak.

Just like to say mentioning that tag that tabloid trash papers gave Michael Jackson shouldnt be mentioned here. Very bad taste and bad form.

I was talking to a few people lately who all agreed that while they remember Elvis' death they said it doesnt compare to this.

IMO Michael Jackson is bigger than Elvis but thats just me. Theres a really good interview on Sky News with a former bodyguard Matt Fiddel I think it is. Very good interview.

The Pontiac

joe123 wrote: »

I was talking to a few people lately who all agreed that while they remember Elvis' death they said it doesnt compare to this.quote]

Obviously it's not going to compare. Back in 1977 people were lucky to have one tv channel and one or two radio stations on the wireless.

Today we've got the internet, a few hundred tv channels, and scummy tabloids looking for any kind of story.

Jesus they didn't shut up about Katy French for months ffs.