[article] Ignore the Skeptics - EU democracy is doing just fine.

oscarBravo

Interesting Newsweek op-ed piece:

In the end, along with the 27 national governments, each headed by a democratically elected government acutely sensitive to public opinion, elitist tendencies are kept in check. The fact that its elections are less than ideal should not distract us from seeing that the EP, far from being a failure, is utterly unique. It is a responsive legislative body within an international organization—the only one in the world with a direct democratic mandate at all.

The word "democracy" has been thrown around so much in this debate that it has been cheapened beyond meaning. It's used as a sort of magic talisman; a blunt instrument to cleave the evil anti-democrats from the champions of righteousness.

Case in point: Monica Leech's soundbyte yesterday about her "democratic right to [her] good name". Um, what?

conchubhar1

democracy is used as the ideal - not the form of government for most people

if you are going to stick to a dictionary meaning - how do you grasp the meaning of any converstation?

now - this is not in reference to what yer wan said or is it on the skeptic point above. just a general observation.

carveone

oscarBravo wrote: »

Case in point: Monica Leech's soundbyte yesterday about her "democratic right to [her] good name". Um, what?

Oooh oooh, in Lisbon II could we also get to vote on her settlement. I vote No.:D

nesf

conchubhar1 wrote: »

democracy is used as the ideal - not the form of government for most people

I'm curious, what exactly do you mean by democracy and ideal here? Do you mean that Swiss style publicly requested referendums on any policy are a good way of doing business, i.e. direct democracy?

conchubhar1

i mean there is a dictionary meaning of democracy

and there is democracy - they way people view it, as freedom and votes etc
ideal is only a word, maybe not the best to express it - but i hope the idea is grasped

i have no idea how the swiss system works (in fact i am only learning how the irish, eu and us system works)

but if the people can call a referendum on any issue - yes that would be a fine way to do things
not advocating or dismissing it for ireland, either way.
the people would definitely get there say tho....

Scofflaw

conchubhar1 wrote: »

i mean there is a dictionary meaning of democracy

and there is democracy - they way people view it, as freedom and votes etc
ideal is only a word, maybe not the best to express it - but i hope the idea is grasped

i have no idea how the swiss system works (in fact i am only learning how the irish, eu and us system works)

but if the people can call a referendum on any issue - yes that would be a fine way to do things
not advocating or dismissing it for ireland, either way.
the people would definitely get there say tho....

I'd like it myself, but citizen-called referendums can be extraordinarily silly. For example, there's nothing to stop a citizen proposal from calling for something extremely costly (say a light rail system for Galway County) and voting for it, without any real regard for the possible costs. California has voted for something quite similar recently - the "Safe, Reliable High-Speed Passenger Train Bond Act". This is part of what was on the ballot paper:

When constructed, additional unknown costs, probably in excess of $1 billion a year, to operate and maintain a high-speed train system. The costs would be at least partially, and potentially fully, offset by passenger fare revenues, depending on ridership.

Claiming that the fares will offset the operating costs is nonsense - there isn't a public rail system anywhere of which it's true.

cordially,
Scofflaw

conchubhar1

do you think the people of galway would call for such a ridicolous item?

in all honesty - this would only be used in extreme cases as it would take some extreme effort


also if a ridiculus proposal was brought forward it would have to match the budget and demand....

PopeBuckfastXVI

conchubhar1 wrote: »

do you think the people of galway would call for such a ridicolous item?

Have a read of the Gluas thread on the Galway City Forum, we're very very split on the idea!

I would worry about constant referenda in case some sort of 'voting fatigue' kicked in, where ridiculous laws would be passed by relatively small special interest groups, because the majority, who would oppose such ridiculous laws might be sick of voting and just not bother turning up.