Driving tests, L plates and the ridiculous corrupt system that is Irish Law.

JacquiD

After looking at many comments and discussions about driving tests and L plate drivers, I am shocked that more people are not writing to the government or starting to kick in a door in the Dail or trying to set fire to their car as a PR stunt in order to get some media attention to highlight the absolute madness that is going on in this country or ours. I feel like doing it myself.
It makes me so angry as I am one of these cursed L plate drivers that is scarpered by teh system. I have to drive to work every day as it is the cheapest and only method for me to get there from where I live.
I do not put up my L plates as I am afraid of getting caught. I dont want to be a criminal! But how can I get to work otherwise? What about the single mums or dads who cant pass the test but depend on their car for their only mode of transport as many live in rural areas like me????
Driving should be based on experience. When in normal driving conditions would you EVER need to reverse around a corner? Are we all gone mad or what? How can we accept this false system? Why is that a part of the Irish driving test??
I have been driving for 6 years and done the driving test 4 times and failed. I spend hundreds on lessons and went to different counties in the hope of getting a more reasonable tester.
I am a confident driver with the ability to recite off the Rules of the Road book almost word for word.
I am a teacher and have achieved college qualifications to masters levels, but am unable to pass this so called 'Driving' test.
It is 38EUR to get a driving test and….so far the government has made 152EUR on my failures.
The last time I completed the test I spent 450EUR on driving lessons in preparation, which got me 15 lessons in total.
Since the very beginning of this arduous journey I have been confidently able to do a turnabout and a reverse around the corner with great accuracy. The reason why I was failed the last time was predominantly my 'progression on the straight', meaning I was going to slow. For the 40 minutes of my test I remained within the speed limits bound by the area I was in. In built up areas the speed limit is 50k. If the speed limit is 50k, should I fail the test if I was going just under this speed limit in that area?

You cannot question or discuss the results of the test with the instructor, and I doubt the government has been setting aside very much money to pay inspectors to ensure that the testers are being fair in their testing. So, I am left failed again. Failed by the system, laughed at because I MUST be a bad driver if Ive failed the test, and it gives me no other option but to try again and again and again and give the government more of my money, while I drive to work every day, afraid of getting caught.
I would like to know if anyone out there has the same experience… if anyone else had failed many times and believes that the test instructors simply pass a certain amount every week and fail some every week?

amy-marie

I only learned to drive well after the new rules were inforced so that obviously affects how I view it, but anyway. I'm learning exclusively in my instructors car as I don't have anyone to accompany me. It's a pain in the arse but you know what? It's the law.

JacquiD wrote: »

trying to set fire to their car as a PR stunt in order to get some media attention to highlight the absolute madness that is going on in this country or ours. I feel like doing it myself.

I'm going to assume that's a joke. :P

I have to drive to work every day as it is the cheapest and only method for me to get there from where I live.

You say "have" to? Unless you're living in a rural area that isn't covered by public transportation then you don't have to. There are plenty of people out there who find other means of getting to work. This "I have to break the law" business is nonsense. You choose to break the law, and drive to work.

I do not put up my L plates as I am afraid of getting caught.

You'd better have that €2,000 handy so.

I dont want to be a criminal! But how can I get to work otherwise?

Get a bus or a train. You could buy a bike which would probably cost you about two months worth of petrol and then wouldn't be breaking the law. Walk. If you have a co-worker/friend near by you could always ask for a lift. Have someone accompany you. Everyone else manages.

What about the single mums or dads who cant pass the test but depend on their car for their only mode of transport

I hate to be the one to say it, but if they can't pass the test they shouldn't be driving in the first place. Especially with children in the car! The test is not rocket science, you know. What's covered on the test is the stuff you come accross driving the kids to school. If you can manage that then you should be able to pass. From what I've read on here, we've got it fairly easy. Countries like Sweeden, I think it was, have to prove they can drive at night etc. In Australia I think you have to take something like 100 hours of lessons.

When in normal driving conditions would you EVER need to reverse around a corner?

As far as I know you don't. But you will need to reverse out of your driveway etc. which is why it's covered on the test.

Look, I was going to quote the rest but I don't think there's much point. Driving is a priviledge not a right. If you cannot pass the test that does not give you the right to break the law. How do you think people managed before cars? They got by! They didn't have this whole "oh but sure I have to, it's not my fault" attitude.

I think Ireland was one of the last countries to introduce this new rule, and it's about time. Two years ago you could drive yourself to the test center, fail, and then drive yourself right on home. How on earth does that make sense? It doesn't. Which is why it's now illegal.

Laphroaig52

What Amy-Marie said....

The fact that you have failed the test 4 times with several different examiners tells a lot and should give you something to reflect on rather than ranting about the system.

A driving license should not be based on experience....it should be (and is) based on demonstrated proficiency. Clearly, you have not yet demonstrated that proficiency. In most countries you wouldn't be allowed on the road at all and from some of your comments above, I think we would all be better off if you weren't.

By the way, reversing around a corner is a manoevure which brings together many of the skills needed to safely drive a car and demonstrates to the examiner that you have the ability to tightly control the vehicle while exercising intense observation. Keep practicing it and you might pass the next time!

FreudianSlippers

I disagree with this whole "no one has to drive to work" line. Ok, doctors can walk or bike to the ER? People who have to cart around heavy books/files/etc. can strap them onto the back of their bicycle or onto the bus?
lol don't even get me started on the bus. Plan on leaving 3 hours before work if you want to get there on time with Dublin Bus.

I do agree that constant failure of the test is no reason to cry foul of the system. Yes, the system is pretty shockingly bad, but not for the reasons stated. I do think that they are unduly harsh on the marking... and the whole looking in your mirrors all the time thing is quite excessive, but everyone needs to know how to reverse and to drive properly. I do feel as though they go out of their way to fail you without telling you why.

ardmacha

It is always the case that law breakers find some justification in their situation to justify their law breaking. If you really are a teacher than I would not want someone passing on those attitudes of "I need it, who cares about the law" attitudes to my kids. Talk of public transport is a red herring, did people in Fermanagh or Scotland ever drive unaccompanied and do they have metros there? In any case if you have various qualifications then you had many years before starting work to get a full driving licence.

The current Irish driving testing regime may not be perfect, but is broadly similar to every other developed country. There is nothing corrupt about it, and the need for public clamour on the subject largely disappeared when drivers were required to be accompanied. If you have a Masters degree then presumably you passed the exams, and you were not given the degree solely on the basis that you had spent a year at the university. Similarly with driving, pass the exam and stop whining, everyone else does it.

CantGetNoSleep

You sound like a sh1t driver, 4 times? Some people just aren't cut out to drive, sounds like you are one of them

Gauge

I really can't understand why people see driving as something they're entitled to, and I've yet to see someone put forth a convincing argument as to why they should be allowed to just take control of a vehicle and use it as they please without displaying any proficiency because it's convenient for them.

And somehow I doubt that you are that great a driver if you've failed the test four times- I'm being harsh, I know, but really.

Yes, it's a cliche, but no one HAS to drive. If your inability to drive is having a major impact on your ability to work or live your life, you have to do what everyone else does- move closer to work, find somewhere with good public transport, or make learning to drive your number one priority until you have your license, and be thankful that this country still has relatively easygoing laws when it comes to driving. But no, people would rather whinge and moan about how it's so damn hard now that the government has started (barely, in my experience) enforcing laws that many other countries have enforced for years.

Go to England or the USA, drive there and get caught, and see how easy we have it when you get prosecuted for driving without the proper license, and make sure to try your "Oh, but I have no choice!" approach and tell us all how it works out.

Alanstrainor

Hey OP,
I don't know what you expect to happen really, give free full licenses to everyone so everyone can drive without having to prove themselves? Ireland's driving test system is far from perfect, the test is probably one of the easier tests when compared to some countries in Europe. We have a few ex-examiners that post here, so i can assure you that they do not work on a quota system, where by they will only pass X amount of people a week. They simply mark the test sheet for any faults that are made, and add up the results at the end. There's no conspiracy involved.
The test doesn't decide if you are a "good" driver, it tests to see if you are a "safe" driver. The reverse around the corner manoeuvre is a way of standardising a skill you will use in everyday driving, reversing out of car park spaces, reversing out of your drive etc etc

Elmo

I have my L plates up haven't been stopped in a while, I am sure that will change soon. My only problems is getting the damn test, waiting for my next test. I am not good with others in the car, I see all my mistakes which makes them even worse.

But I wouldn't be complaining I just haven't got the test, and I take the bus to work. All countries have driving test a much more strict about them too, I suggest you take a test in another country and then come back stating that the system is corrupt.

BTW your next test will cost you 76 euro.

tororosso

CantGetNoSleep wrote: »

You sound like a sh1t driver, 4 times? Some people just aren't cut out to drive, sounds like you are one of them

Here hold on a second! I failed my test 3 times and can completely understand where the OP is coming from...How on God's earth can reversing around a corner be of ANY RELEVANCE to driving on our roads; When was the last time you reversed around a corner??? Oh, and if you answer that you did it recently I suppose one can also argue that it had to be parallel and all that associated BS?!!
By the way I passed on my fourth occasion and that was with the private crowd that were called in after the hoorah about the obscene year long waiting lists. The first and third times were with the same tester (cos that's fair) and as I walked into the third test I already knew he was going to fail me. The two test centres were Orwell/Rathgar and Churchtown (try looking at their failure rates by the way)
Everybody that has seen me driving has said that I am a really safe driver and the instructor before my third test said I would blitz it and was in shock after I informed him what had happened with the third test.
The system is an absolute joke and a cash cow for the government and those testers were failing people on a willy nilly basis..just hope things have changed since a few years back!
Anyway, to the OP, dont give up and dont listen to people who bellieve those tests are an indication of your ability to drive on our roads

sxt

CantGetNoSleep wrote: »

You sound like a sh1t driver, 4 times? Some people just aren't cut out to drive, sounds like you are one of them

I don't think that is a fair comment , I think some people can be unlucky and fail the test numerous times . I mean ,someone that get 8 grades(pass) against someone thats gets 9/10 grades (fail) ,does not mean that the first person is a great driver and the latter a bad driver

Op. You will pass your test. Try to be positive,don't let past result affect your confidence for the next one.Good luck:)

Irishpimpdude

JacquiD wrote: »

After looking at many comments and discussions about driving tests and L plate drivers, I am shocked that more people are not writing to the government or starting to kick in a door in the Dail or trying to set fire to their car as a PR stunt in order to get some media attention to highlight the absolute madness that is going on in this country or ours. I feel like doing it myself.
It makes me so angry as I am one of these cursed L plate drivers that is scarpered by teh system. I have to drive to work every day as it is the cheapest and only method for me to get there from where I live.
I do not put up my L plates as I am afraid of getting caught. I dont want to be a criminal! But how can I get to work otherwise? What about the single mums or dads who cant pass the test but depend on their car for their only mode of transport as many live in rural areas like me????
Driving should be based on experience. When in normal driving conditions would you EVER need to reverse around a corner? Are we all gone mad or what? How can we accept this false system? Why is that a part of the Irish driving test??
I have been driving for 6 years and done the driving test 4 times and failed. I spend hundreds on lessons and went to different counties in the hope of getting a more reasonable tester.
I am a confident driver with the ability to recite off the Rules of the Road book almost word for word.
I am a teacher and have achieved college qualifications to masters levels, but am unable to pass this so called 'Driving' test.
It is 38EUR to get a driving test and….so far the government has made 152EUR on my failures.
The last time I completed the test I spent 450EUR on driving lessons in preparation, which got me 15 lessons in total.
Since the very beginning of this arduous journey I have been confidently able to do a turnabout and a reverse around the corner with great accuracy. The reason why I was failed the last time was predominantly my 'progression on the straight', meaning I was going to slow. For the 40 minutes of my test I remained within the speed limits bound by the area I was in. In built up areas the speed limit is 50k. If the speed limit is 50k, should I fail the test if I was going just under this speed limit in that area?

You cannot question or discuss the results of the test with the instructor, and I doubt the government has been setting aside very much money to pay inspectors to ensure that the testers are being fair in their testing. So, I am left failed again. Failed by the system, laughed at because I MUST be a bad driver if Ive failed the test, and it gives me no other option but to try again and again and again and give the government more of my money, while I drive to work every day, afraid of getting caught.
I would like to know if anyone out there has the same experience… if anyone else had failed many times and believes that the test instructors simply pass a certain amount every week and fail some every week?

Epic Fail!

zuroph

lol. are you trolling?

of course you need to be able to reverse around a corner. in fact, the irish test doesnt go far enough in testing peoples skills for the road.
you are not entitled to drive to work on your own. You do not have a licence. If you knock someone down, does your insurance cover you? does it ****. Unbelievably selfish. get youself a moped licence and drive that to work if you cant pass a car test. bicycle to work. get a job closer to your house. its not the governments fault you're not suitable to drive a car on your own.

fiona-f

Oh dear, this sounds completely crazy. I think the waiting list system for tests in our country is really dreadful and way too long - however I would not for one second dispute the fact that everyone must pass a test before being let drive alone. Of course you should be tested - would you get into a taxi or on a bus if you knew the driver hadn't passed his/her test? Would you let your dentist look at your teeth if she/he wasn't qualified? Would you hire an electrician who had no training? Of course not. So why should you, unique among all people, be allowed to be alone in charge of a car which can very easily kill somebody with just the slightest mistake, without passing what is a very basic competence test?

As for the reverse around the corener - every time I reverse into a parking space or into my driveway from the street, I am turning a corner. In plenty of on-street parking situations, e.g. where there is a long narrow parking bay with only one entrance/exit to the main street, I need to reverse to get out. There are a multitude of reasons why you should be able to reverse safely and the test examines this - I for one cannot see any problem with this.

To be honest, your post shows that you don't have a huge knowledge of the skills of driving - yes the speed limit in built-up areas is as you rightly say 50 km an hour; however that try doing that speed down a main street of a town on market day and you are driving excessively fast and dangerously. The limit is just that, a limit, and you as the driver must choose to take into account road conditions, etc.

Go get soem more lessons, listen to and apply what your instructor says, practice loads and go pass your test. A much better solution thatn crazy whinging on this forum.

Elmo

I WILL NEVER REVERSE AROUND A CORNER AFTER I GET MY TEST. BECAUSE IT THINK IT IS AS DANGEROUS AS DOING A U TURN. (caps purely to show my annoyance at this part of the test)

We should be got to do parallel parking.

But it isn't a major part of the test, I wasn't failed because of my reverse corner or my 3 point turn. I went into the yellow box (but it wasn't my fault, the ****ers put it there )

Elmo

fiona-f wrote: »

As for the reverse around the corener - every time I reverse into a parking space or into my driveway from the street, I am turning a corner. In plenty of on-street parking situations, e.g. where there is a long narrow parking bay with only one entrance/exit to the main street, I need to reverse to get out. There are a multitude of reasons why you should be able to reverse safely and the test examines this - I for one cannot see any problem with this.

Do you do it with perfection each time, i.e. that the car doesn't go over to the other side of the road? I reverse that way all the time but I have yet to do it as perfectly as the test requires. And it is not about coming out of a parking space but about reversing around a corner.

Permabear

This post has been deleted.

zuroph

Elmo wrote: »

Do you do it with perfection each time, i.e. that the car doesn't go over to the other side of the road? I reverse that way all the time but I have yet to do it as perfectly as the test requires. And it is not about coming out of a parking space but about reversing around a corner.

Are you trying to argue that it shouldnt matter if your car goes over to the other side of the road?!? REALLY? can you not see the danger involved here?

Elmo

zuroph wrote: »

Are you trying to argue that it shouldnt matter if your car goes over to the other side of the road?!? REALLY? can you not see the danger involved here?

No but your not supposed to reverse out of your drive way on to a main road, you should reverse into your driveway.

zuroph

Elmo wrote: »

No but your not supposed to reverse out of your drive way on to a main road, you should reverse into your driveway.

what has that got to do with what i said?

Elmo

zuroph wrote: »

what has that got to do with what i said?

It has got to do with the conversation before you came into it. I quote Fiona-f who listed a number of reasons for the reversing around the corner part of the test.

One of which was parking, you reverse out of car parking spaces and out of your driveway. My point is that you should not reverse out of either, you should reverse in. I have never seen any one in a car park or coming out of their drive not going over to the other side of the road, it is very rare to see someone do a perfect reverse out of their drive ways or parking spaces. Generally people will go way over to the other side of the road. And it is particularly danergous to reverse out on to a main road, if someone crashes into the back of you, they are not libel for the damage as you are in the wrong for reversing out on to a main road regardless of how perfectly you do your reverse around the corner.

zuroph

fiona-f wrote: »

As for the reverse around the corener - every time I reverse into a parking space or into my driveway from the street, I am turning a corner.

she says reverse into.. the correct thing to do.
either way, thats here nor there, the reverse around the corner is important, its to test you have precise control of the car, and that you can do so safely.

Elmo

zuroph wrote: »

she says reverse into.. the correct thing to do.
either way, thats here nor there, the reverse around the corner is important, its to test you have precise control of the car, and that you can do so safely.

Which I have no ****ing full licence

I have never seen anyone reverse into car parking spaces except me.

zuroph

Elmo wrote: »

Which I have no ****ing full licence

I have never seen anyone reverse into car parking spaces except me.

i always do, loads of people do. lots of people dont though, i'll admit that. they're in the wrong. drive into them as they reverse out. hold your neck. recession will be over in no time :pac:

Wishbone Ash

JacquiD wrote: »

highlight the absolute madness that is going on in this country

...more like the madness of having so many learners driving unaccompanied on our roads!

JacquiD wrote:

What about the single mums or dads who cant pass the test but depend on their car

I know this may sound harsh to you but you say you are a teacher. Do you think those same single parents who may not be qualified, should be given a job teaching in your school because they may need the money?

JackuiD wrote:

Driving should be based on experience.

Many people don't learn from experience. Would you be impressed if someone who had spent 10 years at teacher training college was given a certificate just because they were experienced while you were required to pass exams?

And hiow would you suggest that experience could be measured? Some people rarely use their licence. My mother has held a full driving licence for about 45 years but has never sat behind the wheel of a vehicle on a public road.

OisinT wrote: »

doctors can walk or bike to the ER?

Of course they should if they don't have a licence.

What next - allow ambulance/Garda/fire tender drivers out without a licence just because they work for emergency services?

OisinT wrote:

People who have to cart around heavy books/files/etc. can strap them onto the back of their bicycle or onto the bus?

If they are required to carry heavy items then a valid driving licence is a pre requisite for the job. Those who don't have one shouldn't apply. Would you expect your coal man to be allowed to drive without a truck licence because he has a heavy load to carry as part of his job?

Elmo wrote: »

I WILL NEVER REVERSE AROUND A CORNER AFTER I GET MY TEST. BECAUSE IT THINK IT IS AS DANGEROUS AS DOING A U TURN. (caps purely to show my annoyance at this part of the test)

Dangerous - in a car!!!

Some of us had to reverse a 45ft trailer around a corner as part of our driving test.

mikemac

Anyone can fail a test a few times, no big deal

But you OP failed your test four times and blame the system.
Don't get angry, get with the system and spend your money on a driving instructor. And a good instructor at that!

I don't remember reversing around corners since my driving test.
But I've done it carparks and our driveway countless times, it's a skill you need

Guy:Incognito

Elmo wrote: »

I WILL NEVER REVERSE AROUND A CORNER AFTER I GET MY TEST. BECAUSE IT THINK IT IS AS DANGEROUS AS DOING A U TURN. (caps purely to show my annoyance at this part of the test)

How is reversign around a corner dangerous? Your supposed to be looking behind you, the same as they way you'd be looking ahead if your driving forwards around the corner. Plus, just because its a corner doesnt mean its blind.


As for the OP. LOL. God forbid if he lived in a country that takes drving seriously. I suggest he goes to Germany to take lessons and the test. See how he gets on driving to work before he passes his test.

JacquiD wrote: »

Driving should be based on experience.

What happens if your doing everythin wrong while gaining this experience? How do you learn? You'll have spent years doing things really badly and those things are hard to suddenly change.

ztoical

OisinT wrote: »

Ok, doctors can walk or bike to the ER?

Yep they do. My mum's a doctor and her car broke down a while back and she walked to work for a week while it was being fixed rather then get a loan car from the garage and found it made her feel great so she kept doing it. Why would a doctor need a car? During office hours they are in their office and out of office hours they either don't see patients depending on their practice or nearly the whole country is covered by some forum of out of hours doctor service now so if there are call outs they have cars with big flashy lights and drivers to take the doctors. If it's more serious they'd be calling an ambulance so if your an ER doc the sick people are brought to you.

Elmo wrote: »

I WILL NEVER REVERSE AROUND A CORNER AFTER I GET MY TEST. BECAUSE IT THINK IT IS AS DANGEROUS AS DOING A U TURN.

I said the same thing when I learned to drive and I've lost count of the amount of times I'd have had to use that skill since I got my full license. Come drive around Kilkenny were the roads are tiny and you'll soon find yourself having to do a couple of reverse around corners/objects during the course of the day.

JacquiD wrote: »

I have to drive to work every day as it is the cheapest and only method for me to get there from where I live.
I do not put up my L plates as I am afraid of getting caught. I dont want to be a criminal! But how can I get to work otherwise? What about the single mums or dads who cant pass the test but depend on their car for their only mode of transport as many live in rural areas like me????

fraid I've no pity for you OP. I had to travel to work for over a year via a country bus in the back end of the country [thurles to Kilkenny and back again]. Driving would have taken no more then 30 mins, by bus it was over an hour and 30 mins going the back roads, not a comfortable route in any way but I dealt with it as did many others in the same boat. The majority of people who come on here and say the car is their only option are really saying the car is the easy option and they don't want to put themselves out. Yes the public transport system is crap but it is there so there is no excuse for breaking the law. I've plenty of friends who are single mums living in very rural areas and they work with what's there rather then making excuses. There are school buses for older kids and for younger kids there plenty of creche's that offer before and after school pick up. And if anyone says that costs money, it costs money to run a car.

Wishbone Ash

Lads/ladies - apologies for sounding very pedantic but, in a driving test, there is no such thing as "reversing around a corner". It is simply called the "reversing manoeuvre". The examiner will ask you to pull into the left after passing a road on the left. He will then request that you reverse into that road (and it will have a bend rather than a corner).

Sunjammer

Wishbone Ash wrote: »

Lads/ladies - apologies for sounding very pedantic but, in a driving test, there is no such thing as "reversing around a corner". It is simply called the "reversing manoeuvre". The examiner will ask you to pull into the left after passing a road on the left. He will then request that you reverse into that road (and it will have a bend rather than a corner).

Yep that's correct and yes you will need this skill regularly like some have said reversing into your drive and more importantly when you take a wrong turn and need to change the cars direction! The test just seems strict as they need to see you can do it safely and under control!

Wishbone Ash

As has been said, the reversing manoeuvre allows you to shows your ability at reversing your vehicle in a competent manner with proper observation while maintaining complete control over the vehicle using the accelerator, foot brake, clutch pedal, steering wheel and parking brake.

The fact that you may never do it again is irrevelant.

bog master

Maybe a bit off the subject, and dont know what the test is like today. Family emigrated to US and we did not return till mid 80's. At that point I had US license, done 2 advanced driving courses and did some motor racing.

Thinking I did not need lessons, just booked the test. FAILED on 4 points.
So had lessons to find out why. First, back then, you got into the car, closed the door and then HAD to bang your shoulder against the door to make sure it was closed. Second, you had to go through the charade of adjusting your inside and wing mirrors, even tho I had just driven the car there.Third, I was told did not use my mirrors enough, but was taught in racing school, when you can, move the eyes not the head, the eyes move quicker. Lastly, I did the dreaded hand over hand on the steering wheel rather than stupid feed it through the hand. The most stupid advice I have ever heard. How can one steer out of a skid or manoeverve quickly with hand over hand.

And off on the last tangent, we hear so much about huge numbers without full licenses and the safety factor, does anyone have stats on number or provisonal license holders involved in accidents as compared to full license holders? [FONT=&quot][/FONT]

Wishbone Ash

bog master wrote: »

Lastly, I did the dreaded hand over hand on the steering wheel rather than stupid feed it through the hand. The most stupid advice I have ever heard. How can one steer out of a skid or manoeverve quickly with hand over hand

Perhaps the competent driver woudn't allow themselves to get into a situation where they had to steer out of a skid quickly!

bog master

Tell me now, you have never encountered black ice, snow on the roads, oil on the roads, or some idiot pulls out in front of you or swerves towards your side of the road? Do your feed the wheel routine in situations like that and you will end up in the ditch or worse!

Permabear

This post has been deleted.

kona

If you fail your test 4 times you should really have to declare this to your insurance if you continue to drive on a provisional.

I failed my test the first time, because i wasnt prepared, I passed the second time because I prepared, I took 5 lessons and drove my car as much as I can practicing exactley what they were looking for.

This country is full of gob****es who think that because they can read a book, and have a masters degree, that it is a god given right that they should pass the driving test. Some people just are not cut out to drive IMO. You should not be driving on a provisional, your putting my life in danger, If you crash into me your as good as uninsured.

Buy a bicycle if you dont have a license, you can fit it out to carry whatever you like, my dad carried fecking engine blocks on his bike( a engine block weights alot more than a file).

jordainius

The reverse around the corner is actually quite important in my opinion. I'm not here to brag, but I'm lucky enough to be very good when it comes to reversing, but rather than me being better than other people, I feel that I am up to the acceptable standard.

The maneuver first and foremost assesses the ability of the driver to reverse.
-Can the driver reverse and turn a corner?
-If so, can the driver do it with the required precision? (staying near to the kerb without touching it?
-Does the driver do the required mirror work? And is the driver observing EVERYTHING that is going on around them?

IF the answer to any of these questions are no then there are doubts cast over the drivers ability to reverse into or out of their driveway, or a parking space.

Also, a driver who can successfully complete the maneuver is demonstrating that they have the necessary technical skills to control their vehicle. And if a driver cannot do this, in my opinion that driver is not (yet) up to the required standard to be let on our roads.

Its very easy to pick holes and complain about the test when you haven't passed it yet. But at the end of the day its a fair system, we all do the same test. Granted no two tests will present the same circumstances but people pass it more often than not.

Practice (with an instructor) makes perfect. Listen to your instructors advice, they know better! Safety, safety, safety. Positive mental attitude. Chances are if you go into the test with preconceived notions about a "corrupt" system that is out to get you, you will most likely fail.

zuroph

ok, can we conclude jacquiD was trolling and isnt coming back?

Busi_Girl08

I don't know if it's trolling or making a serious point (or at least what they think is), and then getting completely pwned by pretty much everyone, and so they stalked off with the tail between their legs.

I know he/she may have flipped off already but I'm stil going to say this...


I am a new driver. I have had just 3 hours of lessons so far with a very competent instructor. I've already been out on the road and while I still have a veeeery long way to go, I have been making (I hope) great progress. My confidence is slowly improving. I have gotten the hang of the clutch pretty easily, and with more practice I will be pretty savvy with gears.

But that's the thing. "With more practise". I'm still learning. Fair enough I have a lot more to learn. I still need to polish up my 3 point turn, and my braking is...jumpy, at best. My nerves and confidence on the road are still something I need to deal with. While I was out yesterday I braked pretty harshly every time I saw a car coming up to the left or right of me. My instructor had to remind me every time that I had right of way.

The thing is, I have someone with me to point out these faults. To tell me that I am swerving a bit on the straight or that next time I should change up sooner/later. I have had all my faults pointed out to me and I have learned from them and know how to act differently next time.

How do you know you are such a great driver OP? No offense intended, but if there is no-one in the car with you with more experience while you are driving around then no-one is going to point out what mistakes you might have made.
You might be making the same mistakes every day and you don't even notice them. You may well have failed for something other than driving too slowly...

JacquiD

Wishbone Ash wrote: »

Perhaps the competent driver woudn't allow themselves to get into a situation where they had to steer out of a skid quickly!

What about if you were in an accident and met someone on the road that swerved towards you? So you are saying that it would be your own fault because you didnt see the dangerous driver coming? How can you say that a competent driver can never get themselves into a situation where they may skid on the road? What if there was an oil spillage and it was night time and there were no road markings?

zuroph

that is what you chose to reply to!? Your arms are not meant to cross, for numerous reasons, but take the example you've given. If you're in head on collision with arms crossed across steering wheel, you're breaking both of those arms, and impeding the safe deployment of an air bag, possibly killing yourself.

JacquiD

Busi_Girl08 wrote: »

I don't know if it's trolling or making a serious point (or at least what they think is), and then getting completely pwned by pretty much everyone, and so they stalked off with the tail between their legs.

I know he/she may have flipped off already but I'm stil going to say this...


I am a new driver. I have had just 3 hours of lessons so far with a very competent instructor. I've already been out on the road and while I still have a veeeery long way to go, I have been making (I hope) great progress. My confidence is slowly improving. I have gotten the hang of the clutch pretty easily, and with more practice I will be pretty savvy with gears.

But that's the thing. "With more practise". I'm still learning. Fair enough I have a lot more to learn. I still need to polish up my 3 point turn, and my braking is...jumpy, at best. My nerves and confidence on the road are still something I need to deal with. While I was out yesterday I braked pretty harshly every time I saw a car coming up to the left or right of me. My instructor had to remind me every time that I had right of way.

The thing is, I have someone with me to point out these faults. To tell me that I am swerving a bit on the straight or that next time I should change up sooner/later. I have had all my faults pointed out to me and I have learned from them and know how to act differently next time.

How do you know you are such a great driver OP? No offense intended, but if there is no-one in the car with you with more experience while you are driving around then no-one is going to point out what mistakes you might have made.
You might be making the same mistakes every day and you don't even notice them. You may well have failed for something other than driving too slowly...

In my original post I explained that I had many driving lessons before the test. My test instructor is one of the best in the country and has been recommended to me by several people. (Ye she is and ADI) He advised that he could see no reason why I could not pass the test. And he even said that I did not require the amount of lessons I booked him in for. But yet I failed again.
I have only been driving unaccompanied for the last number of months and I have been driving ACCOMPANIED over all, for the last 8 years. ( on one occasion I used to drive my father to work every day for about two years in order to build up my experience.) This meant I had someone to accompany me and I got very familiar with safe driving practice.
I have no proof I am a good driver. But then again, I have no proof that the tester did not mark me fairly. I just know that I have never been in a crash, or ever had any difficulty driving. And several driving instructors assure me every time, that I have no reason not to pass. They are surprise when I get into the car with them and ask for 10 and 12 lessons when I can clearly perform all manoeuvres and drive competently with no bad habits.
I am blaming the system because I dont believe I was given a fair test. I am not blaming the system because I dont want to blame myself.
If you do everything by the book, spend a lot of money on good driving instructors, study the rules of the road, test out your skills in all road conditions, tax, insure and NCT your car, pay the testing fee and still fail, it is very frustrating.
I want to know why the results of the test cannot be reviewed. Or why you cannot discuss the test afterwards with the tester.

zuroph

lack of progress is the type of error which may not land you in a crash, but is very dangerous for other road users.

Jenroche

With regards to test centres, I'm wondering if the new private company the government has brought in have a higher pass rate than the government test centres? I did my test 5 times before passing it. The first four times I was failed from a Government test centre (1 at Finglas, 3 at Raheny). Did the fifth one out in Airside, Swords and was passed. In addition, the guy doing the test said I was a very well-practiced, safe driver. It made me wonder...

Jen ;->

DriveSkill

I'm still not sure if this is a troll or not but lets assume not for now

@JacquiD : I think you need to figure out why you are failing ? As others have said you can be lucky or unlucky on the day of the test and the difference between someone with 8 Grade 2s (who has passed) and 9 Grade 2s (a fail) is very very little. However if you have failed 4 times then I dont think you can put it down to being unlucky every time - perhaps the first 2 times you were not ready at all and maybe the last time you were very close to passing in which case dont give up!! In any case its not the systems fault.

I often point out to people that the driving test is not very difficult but it is very easy to fail!! What I mean is, the RSA clearly state what they want to you - there are no trick questions, there are no surprise maneouvers on the test. They want you to follow the MSPSL (Mirror, Signal, Position, Speed and Look) procedure ALL the time. The simple fact is if you dont comply with this, even if you disagree with it, then you will fail.

I think the focusing on the reverse maneouve is a red herring and is possibly distracting you - you do not want to be going through the test thinking....when will the reverse be ? You need to focus 100% on the task at hand whether that be a left turn, right turn, roundabout etc - forget what you did 5 mins earlier and dont think about what is to come. So, you may pick up a grade 2 at the reverse - its not the end of the world and not the end of your test if you've driven well for the rest of it.

You mentioned in the first post about failing for progression on the straight. You are correct in that you will not be faulted for keeping to the speed limit- in fact the opposite is true, you will be faulted for exceeding it. HOWEVER, keeping to the speed limit does not mean crawling along the road and taking an age to get to the speed limit. A good test to see if you have good progression is when you take off from a set of traffic lights, where you were not the 1st car in line, do you keep up with the car infront ? If the car in front pulls well away from you then you are accelerating too slowly and will be faulted for progression on the straight...on a straight road you should accelerate nice and briskly (I'm not talking wheel spinning here now ) but come through the gears nice and quickly and be in 4th gear at 50km/hr within a short time.

My basic advice would be :

• Dont give on the driving!!
• Look back at your previous fault types and understand them - then correct them
• Follow the MSPSL at all times
• Practice the maneouves (reverse, turnabout and hillstart) but dont forget the normal driving which is much more important
• Drive accompanied! There is no excuse for breaking the law! Apply for the test again.

Best of luck with the next test.

Wishbone Ash

bog master wrote: »

Lastly, I did the dreaded hand over hand on the steering wheel rather than stupid feed it through the hand. The most stupid advice I have ever heard. How can one steer out of a skid or manoeverve quickly with hand over hand

Wishbone Ash wrote: »

Perhaps the competent driver woudn't allow themselves to get into a situation where they had to steer out of a skid quickly!

bog master wrote: »

Tell me now, you have never encountered black ice, snow on the roads, oil on the roads, or some idiot pulls out in front of you or swerves towards your side of the road? Do your feed the wheel routine in situations like that and you will end up in the ditch or worse!

Relax bog master! You seemed to have missed the 'Wink' at the end of my post. The only time I've ever used the 'feed' method is when doing the car and bus tests. In the truck tests, particularly the artic, they don't mind if you cross arms. In everyday driving, I usually use one hand but then I've never claimed to be a competent driver.

My post was tongue in cheek but has a certain amount of truth in it which I've gathered from over 20 years of driving in various categories of vehicles.

Black ice/snow/oil - My last few cars have been RWD and anyone with a RWD will know that they are much more difficult to control in slippery conditions. Perhaps I'm lucky but I don't ever recall a situation where I went completely out of control. I don't think the position of one arms on the steering wheel would make any difference anyway when you've lost it. I'd say that the vast majority of vehicles that leave the road on a frosty morning do so simply because the driver was inexperienced and going too fast for the prevailing conditions.

Swerving to avoid another vehicle - again, I find that a short flick of the steering wheel is enough to swerve in normal urban driving speeds (eg. 50kph). I cannot see why one would need to cross ones arms to swerve!

JacquiD wrote: »

What about if you were in an accident and met someone on the road that swerved towards you?

See above. If another vehicle was swerving towards me, I still fail to see how arm position arms would make any difference in manoeuvering to safety. In most fatal accidents involving speed there is no reaction time. On other occasions, a combination of braking and steering may prevent an accident.

FreudianSlippers

Wishbone Ash wrote: »

Of course they should if they don't have a licence.

What next - allow ambulance/Garda/fire tender drivers out without a licence just because they work for emergency services?

If they are required to carry heavy items then a valid driving licence is a pre requisite for the job. Those who don't have one shouldn't apply. Would you expect your coal man to be allowed to drive without a truck licence because he has a heavy load to carry as part of his job?

I think you're missing the point.. I'm not saying they should drive without a licence, but I hate this crowd that thinks that people only drive because they want to. The "no one has to drive" bunch

FreudianSlippers

ztoical wrote: »

Yep they do. My mum's a doctor and her car broke down a while back and she walked to work for a week while it was being fixed rather then get a loan car from the garage and found it made her feel great so she kept doing it. Why would a doctor need a car? During office hours they are in their office and out of office hours they either don't see patients depending on their practice or nearly the whole country is covered by some forum of out of hours doctor service now so if there are call outs they have cars with big flashy lights and drivers to take the doctors. If it's more serious they'd be calling an ambulance so if your an ER doc the sick people are brought to you.

lmfao. they don't bring trauma patients to the doctors house... and the ambulance doesn't come pick up the doctor along the way.
It's great that your mum is a GP or whatever, but there are other doctors who work in this country (although most don't realise it) who don't want to spend every waking hour in the hospital - those that need to get to the hospital in a hurry when a trauma patient arrives.

Overature

go get your full license and stop moaning

FreudianSlippers

I think the crux of this is that the law is the law. I understand that people are upset because the law changed to not allow provisional drivers to drive unaccompanied, but the whole reason for doing this is that there are people out there failing the test 4 times! Do we really want those people out on the road alone? Not until they correct their problems and pass the test.
On the other hand, I don't think there are always good alternatives to driving for many people - does this mean they get to break the law? no. Practice practice practice and pass your test.

ztoical

OisinT wrote: »

lmfao. they don't bring trauma patients to the doctors house... and the ambulance doesn't come pick up the doctor along the way.
It's great that your mum is a GP or whatever, but there are other doctors who work in this country (although most don't realise it) who don't want to spend every waking hour in the hospital - those that need to get to the hospital in a hurry when a trauma patient arrives.

lol I think you've watched too many hospital dramas on television. No the ambulance doesn't pick the doctor up, a doctor is already at the hospital because doctors have set hours just like any other business, they don't just show up when a sick person shows up. If you work in an ER you would have set shift times that you work and you would show up before your shift and head home after, same as any other job. There is no reason for a doctor who works in a hospital and doesn't hold a full license to be driving alone to or from work. Hospitals are in built up areas with decent public transport. In the countryside there are after hours service set up via the health boards with all the local GP's that include a car with a driver.