Screwing the banks because they screwed us!

mikep

I'm really pissed off with the bankers as are most people.
We are all aware that they aren't giving credit to small businesses which is driving some to the wall.
I just had a thought although probably too simple, inspired by the lady in Kerry who orgainsed a protest to force the government to make the banks do their bit to help small businesses
I wonder could people power work?
Here's my plan...all who have deposits in irish banks transfer them to an overseas provider (rabo or halifax etc), when doing so insist that you see the manager of the branch and let them know why this is being done...(i.e. tell them how pissed off you are with them and what they have done..start being a bank for the people who use them...not their investors.. in anyway you see fit!!) if enough people do this the word will filter up to the top brass the something has to be done or they go out of business!
Before everybody starts jumping up and down about how this will ruin the irish banks or how the depositers will loose money...just think about it...make different suggestions..there has to be a way to stick it to these gob****es....

TheInquisitor

Ah sure the banks are grand

Dob74

The banks have a right to lend, to whom ever they want to.
If it is profitable for them to lend, then they will lend.
If a business has to be lent money to keep it going it probably isnt a viable business.
Banks are not the only place to access credit.
And the fact that banks where doleing out money to freely. Is the reason for the economic mess where in. Its no harm that banks dont automaticly give out loans to everyone.

MiniDriver

The banks aren't lending because they are insolvent. If you switch your money to a foreign bank, you'll find that they're insolvent too.

SEPT 23 1989

Dob74 wrote: »

The banks have a right to lend, to whom ever they want to.
If it is profitable for them to lend, then they will lend.
If a business has to be lent money to keep it going it probably isnt a viable business.
Banks are not the only place to access credit.
And the fact that banks where doleing out money to freely. Is the reason for the economic mess where in. Its no harm that banks dont automaticly give out loans to everyone.

so are the banks in this country "viable"
because we the taxpayer had to lend them money to keep trading

parker kent

Surely it's in our interests to hope that the banks do well. Nose, spite and face spring to mind with some comments I hear these days

Hermy

SEPT 23 1989 wrote: »

so are the banks in this country "viable"
because we the taxpayer had to lend them money to keep trading

+1

TheInquisitor

SEPT 23 1989 wrote: »

so are the banks in this country "viable"
because we the taxpayer had to lend them money to keep trading

Sure the banks aren't viable in any country! Every country has had to help their banks, America has bailed out their banks using the TARP program, England has done it by monetary easing poilicies and Europe has done it by making much more cash available. Irish banks are hardly alone

oscarBravo

Dob74 wrote: »

If a business has to be lent money to keep it going it probably isnt a viable business.

Someday you'll own a business, look back on that statement, and cringe.

ejmaztec

As regards the man in the street, or small to medium sized businesses, the banks never lent any money without there being a strong possibility that the money was going to be repaid.

With the big bucks property developers looking for millions or billions, the banks took huge risks lending these people money, and the usual lending criteria went out the window. The bankers just crossed their fingers and hoped for the best.

At this stage the banks are completely paranoid and seem to assume that whatever businesses they finance are going to go bust within 24 hours. With the retail sector the way it is, they've probably got cause to worry.

Perhaps the banks want even more guarantees from the government before they risk lending money.

givyjoe81

Dob74 wrote: »

The banks have a right to lend, to whom ever they want to.
If it is profitable for them to lend, then they will lend.
If a business has to be lent money to keep it going it probably isnt a viable business.
Banks are not the only place to access credit.
And the fact that banks where doleing out money to freely. Is the reason for the economic mess where in. Its no harm that banks dont automaticly give out loans to everyone.

They sure do, the point is they have STOPPED lending to previously solvent business's which has directly caused many of these business's to go bust, mates sisters travel agent for one (last year refused to give her an overdraft). I have also been told by a friend who runs a couple of small businesses that his mates, running Spars have also been refused similar credit facilities meaning they literally have to let 90% run out (sold) before they can replace it), anyone else noticed a strange lack of stock in local convenience stores??

Also as is clearly the case, it was not SME's who got the banks into trouble, it was crazy huge loans to developers which have caused the mess, so pulling the credit facilities of SME's which DO in fact keep about 70% or more of people in a job is just plain crazy, these previously solvent business's didnt cause the banks massive hole in their deposits!!

Agree the banks have to be more prudent with their loans but they are clearly being overly cautious with the lending practice to small business. They were too laxed before and they now appear too stringent.

Back in October time they government was talking about pumping in money in return for controlling interest of the bank, which to my knowledge hasnt happened yet, and i think this is the reason why the banks are being so scrooge like in savage cuts in lending, they want to build up their reserves so they arent forced to giver over control to the government.

In a nutshell they were acting the boll0cks, and still are.

Spudmonkey

SEPT 23 1989 wrote: »

so are the banks in this country "viable"
because we the taxpayer had to lend them money to keep trading

So what do you suggest? That the government set up their own banks and administer money themselves?

To tell you the truth the banks are right to be cagey lending money now, especially to businesses that were formed as a result of the celtic tiger and depended on the good times to function!

Problem is, their cageness is ~8 years too late!!

SEPT 23 1989

Spudmonkey wrote: »

So what do you suggest? That the government set up their own banks and administer money themselves?

To tell you the truth the banks are right to be cagey lending money now, especially to businesses that were formed as a result of the celtic tiger and depended on the good times to function!

Problem is, their cageness is ~8 years too late!!

companies that have traded for the last 25-30 years are finding it impossible to get credit,if our hard earned tax money is being used to bail out these banks they should be ordered by the minister of finance to lend to "viable" businesses

but im afraid its never going to happen the corruption in this country is never ending everyone at the top in everyone elses pockets

when all the while small business owners are sweating over a few poxy grand overdraft to try and keep things running till things pick up

decades spent building up businesses only to see them destroyed

im sure anyone in an SME can understand this at the moment

Max Power1

SEPT 23 1989 wrote: »

so are the banks in this country "viable"
because we the taxpayer had to lend them money to keep trading

Max Power advises that the banks were not lent money - they were handed it free of charge

Spudmonkey

SEPT 23 1989 wrote: »

companies that have traded for the last 25-30 years are finding it impossible to get credit,if our hard earned tax money is being used to bail out these banks they should be ordered by the minister of finance to lend to "viable" businesses

but im afraid its never going to happen the corruption in this country is never ending everyone at the top in everyone elses pockets

when all the while small business owners are sweating over a few poxy grand overdraft to try and keep things running till things pick up

decades spent building up businesses only to see them destroyed

im sure anyone in an SME can understand this at the moment

The amount of time a business has been in operation does not make a difference, if they expanded too quickly in the last ten years then they were in for a fall. Take Tom Hogan Motors for example, I'm not sure of how many years it was open but it was pre-mid 90s anyway.

Besides some people are giving out about their coffee shops etc not being able to get credit? Do we really think giving these 20 grand are going to get them past the current economic conditions?

If businesses aren't carefully vetted before receiving credit, more will be giving out about the banks and they up to their old practises...

SEPT 23 1989

the banks have gone from 100mph - 0 no economy can survive this,expect the unemployment rate to hit 800,000

professore

Spudmonkey wrote: »

Besides some people are giving out about their coffee shops etc not being able to get credit? Do we really think giving these 20 grand are going to get them past the current economic conditions?

Maybe not but what about an SME employing 20 people with 1 M of orders on their books and needs a loan of 100K to buy materials and pay wages in order to fill those orders and wait the 60+ days in order to get paid? Is it not good sense to give them a loan? Business needs credit.

Spudmonkey

professore wrote: »

Maybe not but what about an SME employing 20 people with 1 M of orders on their books and needs a loan of 100K to buy materials and pay wages in order to fill those orders and wait the 60+ days in order to get paid? Is it not good sense to give them a loan? Business needs credit.

Yeah but thats a company with potential business, I'm not saying not to give money to them. I mean the ones with no future, regardless of the amount of money you throw at them.. Thats why they should be carefully examined, otherwise the tax payers may be footing a bigger bill than they face now!

SEPT 23 1989

Spudmonkey wrote: »

Yeah but thats a company with potential business, I'm not saying not to give money to them. I mean the ones with no future, regardless of the amount of money you throw at them.. Thats why they should be carefully examined, otherwise the tax payers may be footing a bigger bill than they face now!

even companies with potential business are being refused credit thats why you see massive job losses and this will continue

Spudmonkey

Any examples of this because I find it hard to believe a company like you said would be refused!

Guy:Incognito

I'm with the OP lets all transfer our money to Halifax. They'd never get in to trouble and need help from the government.................

Mr.Micro

Stekelly wrote: »

I'm with the OP lets all transfer our money to Halifax. They'd never get in to trouble and need help from the government.................

plus you get that little bit X:Dtra

Kama

If businesses aren't carefully vetted before receiving credit, more will be giving out about the banks and they up to their old practises...

But those coffee shops are structurally necessary to the Irish economy! They're too big to fail! If the coffee shops go down they'll take the tea shops with them, as they are so interdependent. I believe the State should take on the possible liabilities of the coffee shops, for the good of the nation as a whole. Preferably, we should pay more than the coffee-shops are worth, but not make them provide the sweet sugary liquidity we so require...

Any examples of this because I find it hard to believe a company like you said would be refused!

I find it hard to 'credit' any examples where people were lent to. A few in the credit unions, yes, but in cases like professore? Blood from stone, or in this case, from zombies...

JonathanAnon

oscarBravo wrote: »

Someday you'll own a business, look back on that statement, and cringe.

You've obviously never tried to get paid from an Irish person. I've waited up to two years to get paid for some invoices. A lot of Irish businesses are very mean spirited about paying their bills.

galwayrush

I have a small business and had to cut down using the banks as they turned out to be useless and more of a hinderance than a help to me. It took a while to work, but now, i use deposits from customers to build up a kitty and to buy materials either with cash, or the customer makes a cheque out to one of my suppliers. It made me lay off staff initially, but now, i employ more staff than i ever did, and i am saving a fortune in bank charges and overdraft interest rates. I will never be going back to depending on the useless banks again.

galwayrush

JonathanAnon wrote: »

You've obviously never tried to get paid from an Irish person. I've waited up to two years to get paid for some invoices. A lot of Irish businesses are very mean spirited about paying their bills.

Same here, now it's 50% up front, balance before goods leave my workshop, or if fitting, i demand 90% before leaving workshop and end up exposed only for the final 10%.

Dob74

oscarBravo wrote: »

Someday you'll own a business, look back on that statement, and cringe.

if a business has to be lent money to fund its day to day operations it isn't viable.
Only capital spending should be borrowed money.



ps i am self employed

oscarBravo

Dob74 wrote: »

if a business has to be lent money to fund its day to day operations it isn't viable.

Only if your definition of a viable business is one with perfectly regular-as-clockwork income.

Only capital spending should be borrowed money.

Hah - what makes you think banks are lending to small businesses for CapEx? In your dreams.

ps i am self employed

That's a different world from a growing business - believe me, I've been there.

Dannyboy83

mikep wrote: »

I'm really pissed off with the bankers as are most people.
We are all aware that they aren't giving credit to small businesses which is driving some to the wall.
I just had a thought although probably too simple, inspired by the lady in Kerry who orgainsed a protest to force the government to make the banks do their bit to help small businesses
I wonder could people power work?
Here's my plan...all who have deposits in irish banks transfer them to an overseas provider (rabo or halifax etc), when doing so insist that you see the manager of the branch and let them know why this is being done...(i.e. tell them how pissed off you are with them and what they have done..start being a bank for the people who use them...not their investors.. in anyway you see fit!!) if enough people do this the word will filter up to the top brass the something has to be done or they go out of business!
Before everybody starts jumping up and down about how this will ruin the irish banks or how the depositers will loose money...just think about it...make different suggestions..there has to be a way to stick it to these gob****es....

This would never work in a country like Ireland, vast majority of people don't want to be inconvenienced, just watch to watch the rugby, have a pint and keep their head in the sand.

24.8% of people are happy with the way things are, most of the rest will stop caring once they can pay the bills and have some disposable income again.

sovtek

Spudmonkey wrote: »

So what do you suggest? That the government set up their own banks and administer money themselves?

That's pretty much what should happen.

Spudmonkey

And who do they employ? Where do they get the money from? What happens to peoples savings when banks become insolvent?