parents..

~me~

Goduznt Xzst wrote: »

OP, my 2c. Stick to your guns and don't get her baptized. For all the reasons you listed as well as the example you will set for her when she grows old enough to understand the stand you made for hers and your own principles and rights.

Getting her baptized might get her into a school closer to home and may allow her to be taught more information, but standing firm will teach her something a lot more important, and that is the purpose of values. She will respect your stand for her and your refusal to be seen as a liar to secure a subjective "better" education.

Plus you accept that this discrimination is not right, supporting it and giving the Catholic Church more numbers will be going against what you, at your core, expect as basic human rights.


"All that is necessary for evil to triumph is for good men to do nothing" - Edmund Burke

well you've bought me with your 2c!
i think everything you've said is correct. thanks.

20goto10

Mena wrote: »

You can. Don't send them to a religiously controlled school!! :pac:

You "go with the flow" atheists... we'll never change the world this way!

It's not always an option. The nearest educate together school is at least 10km from my home. That means moving home, to an area I do not like and do not want to bring my kid up in. Nor am I comfortable with my kid going to a largely foreign national school (which is also of a largely religious make up, just not catholic) Weighing out the pros and cons, I'd rather just let the catholic church have their statistic. And besides, isn't it the census that's used in statistics? So in actual fact, getting baptised means absolutely nothing at all other than it makes it easier to get into your local school.

Can I ask what you plan to do when it comes to secondary school? I'm open to correction but I don't think there is a non religious school in the country.

20goto10

Goduznt Xzst wrote: »

OP, my 2c. Stick to your guns and don't get her baptized. For all the reasons you listed as well as the example you will set for her when she grows old enough to understand the stand you made for hers and your own principles and rights.

Getting her baptized might get her into a school closer to home and may allow her to be taught more information, but standing firm will teach her something a lot more important, and that is the purpose of values. She will respect your stand for her and your refusal to be seen as a liar to secure a subjective "better" education.

Plus you accept that this discrimination is not right, supporting it and giving the Catholic Church more numbers will be going against what you, at your core, expect as basic human rights.

"All that is necessary for evil to triumph is for good men to do nothing" - Edmund Burke

It's hard to argue against that. Other than it still does not solve my problem of where to send my child to school...

DapperGent

Goduznt Xzst wrote: »

OP, my 2c. Stick to your guns and don't get her baptized. For all the reasons you listed as well as the example you will set for her when she grows old enough to understand the stand you made for hers and your own principles and rights.

Getting her baptized might get her into a school closer to home and may allow her to be taught more information, but standing firm will teach her something a lot more important, and that is the purpose of values. She will respect your stand for her and your refusal to be seen as a liar to secure a subjective "better" education.

Plus you accept that this discrimination is not right, supporting it and giving the Catholic Church more numbers will be going against what you, at your core, expect as basic human rights.

"All that is necessary for evil to triumph is for good men to do nothing" - Edmund Burke

Take the positives outlined here and then compare them to the negatives in the scenarios of:

1. Going to a crap school
2. Having a parent tired and stressed from an unnecessary extra hours travel morning and evening for years.

~me~

20goto10 wrote: »

Can I ask what you plan to do when it comes to secondary school? I'm open to correction but I don't think there is a non religious school in the country.

was that directed at me or someone else? i wasnt sure but if so, then i'm hoping (fingers crossed!) she'll be mature enough by then to know that she can believe what she wants regardless of the RE they give her and not feel the pressure to accept what they tell her! in primary i had to pray every morning! there was none of that in secondary school!
in the secondary school i was in they taught us of all religions anyway so that would benefit her even more.
afaik if you're doing religion as an exam subject you learn of different religions around the world not just christianity. i could be wrong though!

Goduznt Xzst

DapperGent wrote: »

2. Having a parent tired and stressed from an unnecessary extra hours travel morning and evening for years.

My Aunt and Uncle are Jehovahs Witnesses and did not baptize their child as a Catholic. They ended up not getting into their local school but actually a much better school a 30 minute drive away. They said they would not take back those years of traveling to and from the school for anything as they found it was a great time to bond and talk to their child. When their son got home he would usually jump right into his homework and then watch TV and the evenings where mostly gone, but having that time alone every morning and afternoon meant they could catch up on how school was going and provided a common ground so that communication lines never broke down.

In retrospect they said getting refused from their local Catholic school was the best thing that ever happened to them.

~me~

yeh my partners school was actually a good drive away from his house too and he has said that he loved the school and didnt mind the drive every morning (i know he wasnt the one driving but still!) and he'd be prepared to do the same for our daughter. and tbh the drive musn't have killed her that much cause his mum put him in a secondary school the same distance away and still had to drive him in!

Mena

20goto10 wrote: »

It's not always an option. The nearest educate together school is at least 10km from my home. That means moving home, to an area I do not like and do not want to bring my kid up in. Nor am I comfortable with my kid going to a largely foreign national school (which is also of a largely religious make up, just not catholic) Weighing out the pros and cons, I'd rather just let the catholic church have their statistic. And besides, isn't it the census that's used in statistics? So in actual fact, getting baptised means absolutely nothing at all other than it makes it easier to get into your local school.

Can I ask what you plan to do when it comes to secondary school? I'm open to correction but I don't think there is a non religious school in the country.

Do you mind me asking you to clarify the 10Km's thing? You see, for me, that's not even a drop in the ocean. Hell, I used to commute 80Km's a day (one way) just for work. Is it a particularly congested route?

I'll let the Foreign National thing slide for now :mad: (I tek yer jawb!)

With regards to secondary school, We're hoping (but in no way confident) that options will open up. Leaving the country is on the cards though. It's not like we're really tied down.

This being said, by that time she will probably be able to make up her own mind, so we'd let her decide, but we have her name down in two schools already (in a different country).

20goto10

It's a 10k commute twice a day as oppossed to putting him/her in the school across the road (literally across the street).

I think the cons were summed up nicely above. Why send my kid to a crap school miles away just for the sake of being stubborn. If I cam get my kid into the school without getting baptised, I will. Otherwise it's really no big deal. He can learn first hand what a crock of ****e it all is.

Mena wrote: »

Do you mind me asking you to clarify the 10Km's thing? You see, for me, that's not even a drop in the ocean. Hell, I used to commute 80Km's a day (one way) just for work. Is it a particularly congested route?

I'll let the Foreign National thing slide for now :mad: (I tek yer jawb!)

With regards to secondary school, We're hoping (but in no way confident) that options will open up. Leaving the country is on the cards though. It's not like we're really tied down.

This being said, by that time she will probably be able to make up her own mind, so we'd let her decide, but we have her name down in two schools already (in a different country).

Sure wing it and see - worst case scenario a baptism takes all of 10 or 15 minutes. If they said it was a requirement you could ask to be excused for a few minutes and run the kid down to the parish priest.

pts

On a semi-related note (maybe a bit of a squeeze): "Mandatory sex education classes for 14-year-olds anger Muslim immigrants in Sweden"

It's nearly an inverse of our problem, secular schools teaching something religious folks don't want their children to hear. Traditionally parents were able to opt their children out of sex education, but now it looks like they mightn't be able any more.

Those lovable Swedes and their liberal ways eh

Dades

I thought this line was funny:

Sweden's education secretary, Jan Bjorklund wrote:

"All students have the right to take part in the compulsory school education..."

+1 to loving those Swedes, though!

robindch

pts wrote: »

secular schools teaching something religious folks don't want their children to hear. Traditionally parents were able to opt their children out of sex education, but now it looks like they mightn't be able any more.

Nuthin' wrong with that -- instead of learning it inside a nice clean classroom with a known curriculum delivered by a trained teacher, kids of islamic parents can learn all about sex by attending the practicals behind the bike sheds.

Hands-on is much better, innit?

Orion

~me~ wrote: »

but we dont want her to have any imposed link with the church until she asks for it. including baptism. stubborn i know but its how we feel.

I agree with you entirely. My kids aren't baptised. We had then enrolled in Celbridge Educate Together and then luckily we got involved in opening the Maynooth one. If we hadn't got places in either our only other option was the girls NS which I didn't really consider an option.

Dades wrote: »

Whether you can "opt your kids out" of RE in primary school.
Or is it just a case of be quiet in the corner you heathens...?

You can. While schools can refuse to admit non-catholics once you're in you can opt-out.

20goto10 wrote: »

Can I ask what you plan to do when it comes to secondary school? I'm open to correction but I don't think there is a non religious school in the country.

VEC schools, Comprehensive schools and hopefullly Educate Together secondary schools

robindch

Macros42 wrote: »

Educate Together secondary schools

With snowflake in tow, I dropped out to one of the south-side ET schools this morning and good heavens, it's nothing at all like the grim Presentation Convent that I started off in.

Congrats to all concerned for creating a place that was bright, cheerful, friendly, multi-racial and conspicuously lacking both extensive religious ornamentation and the bible-black women who moved up and down the old, dark corridors like frustrated pepper-pots.

Zillah

robindch wrote: »

With snowflake in tow

Aww

dvpower

pts wrote: »

On a semi-related note (maybe a bit of a squeeze): "Mandatory sex education classes for 14-year-olds anger Muslim immigrants in Sweden"

It's nearly an inverse of our problem, secular schools teaching something religious folks don't want their children to hear. Traditionally parents were able to opt their children out of sex education, but now it looks like they mightn't be able any more.

Those lovable Swedes and their liberal ways eh

We had a similar issue here a few years back when some people voiced opposition to the Stay Safe programme in primary schools on the basis that it undermined 'family values'.

robindch

Mod note -

Zillah wrote: »

Aww

Blatant attempts to curry favor with the moderators will not only be tolerated, but thoroughly encouraged too.

20goto10

robindch wrote: »

With snowflake in tow

That could well be her nickname (in a multicultural classroom) I have doubts whether my child would fit in in a multicultural classroom. From a cultural and religious view point. They may not teach culture or religion in the school but its a bit naive to think its not a factor in a school that is made up of largely non Irish kids, some of which will be from a strict religion. As oppossed to going to a Catholic school where the reality of the situation is the majority don't really care about religion.

~me~

20goto10 wrote: »

That could well be her nickname (in a multicultural classroom) I have doubts whether my child would fit in in a multicultural classroom. From a cultural and religious view point. They may not teach culture or religion in the school but its a bit naive to think its not a factor in a school that is made up of largely non Irish kids, some of which will be from a strict religion. As oppossed to going to a Catholic school where the reality of the situation is the majority don't really care about religion.

nowadays even catholic schools are multicultural, the kids just get baptised for a place. i dont see anything wrong with a multicultural classroom especially with regards to religion, its best a child knows of all religions rather than just the dominant one.