Community Saddened as Carlow Forum Declines

SV

Dub13 wrote: »

That would be Boards site wide policy.What would happen if kids were talking about one of these shops on a regional forum and god forbid something happened to them after getting stuff in one of these shops.The media would have a field day.

Their was talk a couple of years ago about a Boards legal drugs forum but it never materialized,obviously the Admins made a call on that one and its a road we are not going down.

They're completely legal, what's the problem?
It's not like we're discussing cannabis or cocaine or any other illegal drug.
They'd have a field day because people were talking about it in a regional forum? I doubt it.

There has been plenty of talk about headshops in the likes of After Hours before but because it's a regional forum it's suddenly not allowed?

javaboy

SV wrote: »

They're completely legal, what's the problem?
It's not like we're discussing cannabis or cocaine or any other illegal drug.
They'd have a field day because people were talking about it in a regional forum? I doubt it.

There has been plenty of talk about headshops in the likes of After Hours before but because it's a regional forum it's suddenly not allowed?

Actually we don't allow talk of specific head shops or the names/locations of them. We allow discussion of substances and so on within limits. No recommendations and no medical advice for a start.

As for them being legal, well it's entirely up to the site owners what they want or don't want. And legal or not, if some kid kills themselves overdosing on one of these things and it transpires that they read about them on Boards, yes the media would have a field day. Just look at Grand Theft Auto, Child's Play, target shooting and more for things that are legal but can still be vilified when tenuously tied to some crime/horrific event.

SV

javaboy wrote: »

Actually we don't allow talk of specific head shops or the names/locations of them. We allow discussion of substances and so on within limits. No recommendations and no medical advice for a start.

As for them being legal, well it's entirely up to the site owners what they want or don't want. And legal or not, if some kid kills themselves overdosing on one of these things and it transpires that they read about them on Boards, yes the media would have a field day. Just look at Grand Theft Auto, Child's Play, target shooting and more for things that are legal but can still be vilified when tenuously tied to some crime/horrific event.

Ok, fair enough then.
I don't agree with the whole allowing to talk about the substances but not any specific head shop but that's for another topic.


Still though, that's one topic and my post in that topic goes for the whole forum.
There is no discussion allowed on it.

Dub13

SV wrote: »

There has been plenty of talk about headshops in the likes of After Hours before but because it's a regional forum it's suddenly not allowed?

The problem is if the Admins allowed these substances to be discussed it would be much better to allow the discussion on a specific forum were the mods are well clued in on the issue at hand.

If we allowed this kind of talk on all regional forums it would expose dozens of mods who have probably next to no experience in dealing with this type of thing.This would not be a good policy.

You see a decision that may seem harsh if you get to the bones of it its done for a reason,we don't make boards policy out of thin air most things are thoroughly talked through in the mods forum.

Sully

SV wrote: »

I will continue to question it alright.

So where do we talk about them at all then?
There's a headshop in Carlow, why aren't we allowed to talk about it?

SV wrote: »

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055496874

Post 7 there..

Whatever about what has been said so far (which I need to double check, seems news to me), I think that post which the mod took issue with was purely some lazy individual (usually journalists or college students who want us to do their homework for them) wanting to use Boards users to do his work. Iv taken issue with those type of posts (even one today in Waterford) before, as have Boards.ie as a whole. Its a site wide thing.

As for your comment - back seat modding is against Boards.ie rules, this is why the PM function is there and Help Desk so you can address these issues rather then dragging threads off topic.

Sully

javaboy wrote: »

Actually we don't allow talk of specific head shops or the names/locations of them.

We dont? Since when? I never knew that..

We allow discussion of substances and so on within limits. No recommendations and no medical advice for a start.

Exactly, and the same approach is taken for legal advise. Imagine if we allowed discussion on this, high risk someone would take incorrect advise from someone not professional and get sued. Far to risk.

patrickc

SV wrote: »

I will continue to question it alright.

question away, but i'm sure if there where any qualms with it, the reg/cat mods etc would have brought it to my attention by now.

SV

patrickc wrote: »

question away, but i'm sure if there where any qualms with it, the reg/cat mods etc would have brought it to my attention by now.

Well that's what we're attempting to have done here.

javaboy

Sully wrote: »

We dont? Since when? I never knew that.

Don't know. It's been our approach since I remember. That reminds me..... new charter needed. Anyway this is a bit off topic so... /skedaddles

Sully

SV wrote: »

Well that's what we're attempting to have done here.

On that note, we had a discussion on what was brought up here. Despite the drama of the first post and in the Carlow forum, its clear there were only very minor issues with less then a handful of the forum users. So, based on that, I think its safe to say the main problems (minor, but still) were;

- Threads being closed too early,
- Threads being moved when there was no need.

We also took the concerns of folk who completely disagree with the first post and are annoyed about the behaviour of some in the forum. So based on all of these, we all agreed to make the required changes to make things that little bit fairer/flexible but also stricter on any repeat of what occurred in the forum the other night. I know patrick re-opened a closed thread, but im not sure if its worth while opening older ones at this stage. So hopefully, the minor tweaks will be a nice balance to both sides of the coin! If I have missed something, please let me know.

Often, what I have found anyway, is that people in the regional forum are a little less aware of what is the norm on Boards in terms of what is and isn't allowed. Its always best if you have a query to get in touch with the mods first, as it will be sorted quicker and easier without a mess. Not much can be done about this, though perhaps looking over the Boards.ie FAQ may help. Its always good to interact on other forums, even the well established ones, but reading the forum charter first is the best approach. In my opinion anyway!

ShayK1

SV wrote: »

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055496874

Post 7 there..

Ah you found it, nice one.

When that thread was originally posted I wasn't a mod and I didn't actually know what headshop was tbh (not sure I even do now) but when plug1 posted I think I had been made a mod.

I'm going to agree with patrickc's action though. plug1 was a newly registered user and dragged up a 2 month old thread trying to research headshops. He was warned that the Carlow forum isn't the place for research which he accepted.

The thread wasn't locked or anything, just a warning given to a new poster.

You then made your comments and Pat directed you to the feedback forum, which I would've done also.

All above board IMO.

HugoIrl

I just wanted to give feedback on the carlow forum. Alot of people seem to be giving out about it lately. I don't see any reason why, I find it fair.

I haven't had any runs in regarding my comments and most that post stick to the rules. Pretty much thats it. happy wit it and when i need info most are happy to help

corribdude

Dub13 wrote: »

The problem is if the Admins allowed these substances to be discussed it would be much better to allow the discussion on a specific forum were the mods are well clued in on the issue at hand.

If we allowed this kind of talk on all regional forums it would expose dozens of mods who have probably next to no experience in dealing with this type of thing.This would not be a good policy.

You see a decision that may seem harsh if you get to the bones of it its done for a reason,we don't make boards policy out of thin air most things are thoroughly talked through in the mods forum.

I'm more of a reader than a poster on boards.ie lately but I'm a big fan of the regional forums and I think they are of benefit to the regions they server. I don't follow the carlow forum much but I do read the galway one very regularly and I used to read the kildare one, among others, so here's my opinion on regional forums.

Firstly, regarding head shops, If you are worried about kids reading them why don't you go and ban all threads on pubs and alchohol too? And all threads on gambling or smoking if they appear? Faaaar more people are being killed by drink, go look up the stats. And I dont just mean in total, I mean relatively too. I personally know of two people under 20 who died due to alchohol in the last 3 years. Head shops are often discussed in the papers on the radio so what is the big problem with having a discussion on the carlow forum? Especially considering the prevalence of head shop threads on boards.ie in general.

There's been a four year long thread on head shops running in the galway forum http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=290268 that is still open and was last posted on 4 days ago. It's been a very popular thread that hasn't always been fully on topic but I don't see the problem in that in a regional forum. There have also been lots of big threads on head shops and legal highs in afther hours. So it is definitlely heavy handed closing a head shop thread when they are common and popular on other forums on boards.ie. A "Head shop in Carlow" thread is a completely valid topic for discussion and would be of interest to alot of people whether they liked head shops or not.

You need to relax the stuff about off-topic discussion and locking threads big time on a regional forum or you will kill the community and the forum will just become a database of local information - a good example of this is the Kildare forum where almost every thread on Storm cinemas in Naas gets locked even though it is easily the biggest talking point for people living in kildare. The storm cinema thread is by far the biggest ever on that forum and would have been much bigger by now if it had've been left open and just trolls who were trying to kill it were banned. http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/forumdisplay.php?s=&f=936&page=1&pp=20&sort=views&order=desc&daysprune=-1

The Kildare forum's community spirit is dead due to heavyhanded moderating. Too many threads were being closed/warnings being issued and when the thread discussing the biggest talking point in the county, storm cinema naas, was closed I had enough and stopped reading. Now I'll look at it once every 6-8 months and it's still dead as a door nail.

Whereas with the galway forum there have been some massive long running threads and the moderators are very easy going, let lots of things pass (which is necessary to foster community spirit) and contribute more to the forum other than locking threads and warnings.

You should take a leaf outta the galway forum as regards moderating as it is one of the best run regional forum on this site and has had a very active community for years.

Dub13

On the headshop thread in the galway forum,as I pointed out talk is allowed on this on some forums if the mod is ok with it and fully understands the subject.What they sell is generally 'legal'... it's what someone does with it that makes it illegal.

I am not going to ask all the mods on the regional forums to allow threads on this subject unless they are comfortable with it,in this case the Galway mods seem fine with it so the thread is allowed to run with a watch full eye on it by the forum mods.

aynon

i know this going a little off topic.
like alcohol and cigarettes, you must be 18 to use them. The ppl that own head shops will not allow anyone below the age of 18 in. i went in there once to investigate what a headshop was, and straight away was asked for i.d. which i promptly produced. so it is my believe talking about locations, shouldnt be wrong, its the same as asking wheres my nearest pub. i reviewed your mans post, and yes he looked like a lazy *bleep* and was looking for us to do his workfor him.

corribdude

Had a big post written out but just deleted it as I have noticed that the head shop thread wasn't locked, the issue was the moderator said some guy couldn't post in the thread to reseach head shops, which was a fair enough decision. He never actually said people couldn't talk about head shops, he just said not to post looking for research information, and the thread is still open so I think this is not an example of moderator heavy handedness.

That said I wanted to clear up what Dub13 was saying about the boards.ie general and regional policy on discussing head shops because he is incorrect.

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/search.php?searchid=7377557
Lots of threads from many regional forums there discussing head shops and the only ones that were locked were from the galway forum as there was already a head shop thread in progress. And this (non-existant) policy of not allowing discussion of head shops on the regional forums because kids might read them makes no sense anyway because it seems there is no problem with kids reading them on the galway or after hours forums. Or on any of the multitude of regional forums I linked above. And that's the way to have it because I dont know one topic that has been banned outright on boards.ie, there have discussions on illegal drugs, racism, child pornography, violence, binge drinking, rape, etc...so there is no reason why head shops shouldn't be discussed. Boards.ie is not a childrens message board and if you censored everything that mightn't be suitable for a kid you might as well shut down the site as it would kill off over half the discussions on here.

Sully

aynon wrote: »

i know this going a little off topic.
like alcohol and cigarettes, you must be 18 to use them. The ppl that own head shops will not allow anyone below the age of 18 in. i went in there once to investigate what a headshop was, and straight away was asked for i.d. which i promptly produced. so it is my believe talking about locations, shouldnt be wrong, its the same as asking wheres my nearest pub. i reviewed your mans post, and yes he looked like a lazy *bleep* and was looking for us to do his workfor him.

An undercover TV operation was done where they sent in people below the legal age to buy stuff - not a problem in most shops, not even asked for ID.

corribdude wrote: »

Had a big post written out but just deleted it as I have noticed that the head shop thread wasn't locked, the issue was the moderator said some guy couldn't post in the thread to reseach head shops, which was a fair enough decision. He never actually said people couldn't talk about head shops, he just said not to post looking for research information, and the thread is still open so I think this is not an example of moderator heavy handedness.

That said I wanted to clear up what Dub13 was saying about the boards.ie general and regional policy on discussing head shops because he is incorrect.

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/search.php?searchid=7377557
Lots of threads from many regional forums there discussing head shops and the only ones that were locked were from the galway forum as there was already a head shop thread in progress. And this (non-existant) policy of not allowing discussion of head shops on the regional forums because kids might read them makes no sense anyway because it seems there is no problem with kids reading them on the galway or after hours forums. Or on any of the multitude of regional forums I linked above. And that's the way to have it because I dont know one topic that has been banned outright on boards.ie, there have discussions on illegal drugs, racism, child pornography, violence, binge drinking, rape, etc...so there is no reason why head shops shouldn't be discussed. Boards.ie is not a childrens message board and if you censored everything that mightn't be suitable for a kid you might as well shut down the site as it would kill off over half the discussions on here.

Agreed. Was never aware of such a policy myself and have been meaning to follow it up.

Dub13

corribdude wrote: »

Lots of threads from many regional forums there discussing head shops and the only ones that were locked were from the galway forum as there was already a head shop thread in progress. And this (non-existant) policy of not allowing discussion of head shops on the regional forums.

Its not a non-existent policy,as I said in some forums the mods understand the issue and threads are allowed to run on other forums the best policy is to lock and let other forums deal with it.The last thing we want is to force mods to deal with a situation they don't fully understand.

bSlick

Dub13 wrote: »

Its not a non-existent policy,as I said in some forums the mods understand the issue and threads are allowed to run on other forums the best policy is to lock and let other forums deal with it.The last thing we want is to force mods to deal with a situation they don't fully understand.

What do you mean by "deal with a situation they fully understand", it's not a complex medical procedure or an FBI financial investigation that is the situation here, it is a discussion on head shops, hardly a complex matter. Everyone knows what head shops are, even the auld ones ringing into Joe Duffy. And as for forcing mods, there's nothing to "force" in the first place, we're talking about moderating a discussion, not forcing them to quit a job or commit a crime or something. You're making a mountain out of non-existant molehill.

And as corrdude and sully said there is no boards.ie policy on banning discussion of head shops, as the link posted just above shows there are tons of threads head shops in the regional forums alone.

Dub13

Everybody knows head shops ride the line between what is legal and whats illegal,half the stuff they sell is not legal as such they just have no status.Whatever way you look at it these shops sell powerful drugs and we have to keep a eye on any threads about them.

This all going off topic,if anybody wants to discuss this more I suggest you start a new thread on head shops.