Seven out of 10 favour immigration restrictions

PaulieD

A large majority believe immigration from new EU member states into Ireland should be restricted because the perilous economic situation means we no longer have enough jobs, a Sunday Independent poll has revealed.
Nearly seven out of ten Irish people now want the inflow of foreign nationals to be curtailed fearing that further new arrivals will strain the social welfare system.
The poll was conducted after it was revealed in the Sunday Independent last week that the number of foreign nationals on the Live Register is now about 80,000 -- or around 20 per cent of the total.
Asked: "Do you think Ireland, in line with most other European countries, should restrict immigrants from new EU accession countries?" 67 per cent of respondents replied Yes and 33 per cent answered No.
Many respondents believed it was unsustainable to allow more and more people in given the size of the country and the economic crisis.
Others pointed out that there had been a need for labour during the boom years but that demand was gone.
Some respondents also expressed fears that more immigration from these countries would lead to a strain on the welfare system and a small minority believed that fraud was an issue.
"We do not have the jobs anymore and if people come over and just end up on the dole that is just going to cause problems," according to one respondent.

http://www.independent.ie/national-news/seven-out-of-10-favour-immigration-restrictions-1794640.html

Is it time to temporarily close our borders to the accession states until our economy picks up?

Under the Accession Treaties, Ireland can apply to the EU Commission for the temporary reintroduction of labour-market restrictions on the accession states.

oscarBravo

PaulieD wrote: »

Is it time to temporarily close our borders to the accession states until our economy picks up?

Why stop at the accession states? We should close our borders to all foreigners, while still demanding our right to live and work freely elsewhere in the Union. We should selectively apply import tariffs on agricultural goods that compete with home-produced equivalents, while still freely exporting. We should make sure that only Irish fishermen can fish Irish waters, but also allow them to fish elsewhere in the EU. We should continue to use the Euro, but set our own interest rates.

I can't see the other 26 member states having an issue with any of this.

AlekSmart

PaulieD mused.....

Asked: "Do you think Ireland, in line with most other European countries, should restrict immigrants from new EU accession countries?" 67 per cent of respondents replied Yes and 33 per cent answered No.
Many respondents believed it was unsustainable to allow more and more people in given the size of the country and the economic crisis.

Oscar Bravo retorted....

I can't see the other 26 member states having an issue with any of this.

I suppose Oscar B is correct and that Irelands desire to reintroduce such restrictions MIGHT cause some of them oul Europeans to have a hissy fit.

However as it is now turning out,most of the "Real" European countries appear to be coming around to the realization that Ireland and the Irish are NOT even vaguely European in our outlooks,belief`s or desires.

We are little more than an interesting sad little sideshow on the EU`s periphery,important only in militaristic terms due to our position as next parish to America.

In true altruistic European style,the EU gave us our chance and in equally true native Irish fashion,we could`nt find enough walls to pisx it up against.

The reality of introducing the restrictions referred to is based largely upon our VERY (In real EU terms) Social Welfare supports,both in terms of scale and amounts of payment.

Whether the present Government wants to admit it or not,the money to continue these payments is going FAST !!

Once the Social Welfare cuts are introduced and we begin to get accquainted with REAL poverty again the problem will essentially self correct......it may even be simple geographics which sorts it out for us.....Physically It`s a hell of a lot easier to be a hobo on the Amalfi coast or the Cóte d`azure than it is to have your damp extremities rot off on Custom House Quay of Parnell Square East.

Nobody (except perhaps those 50 well placed state rescued developers and bankers) in this country should consider themselves free from the threat of sudden poverty and it is hovering very close to our native shores.

Or perhaps I am too pessismistic and that Galway Races 2010 will see a sudden re-emergence of the old-guard and its winning ways......any betting folk still left out there ??

Bottle_of_Smoke

oscarBravo wrote: »

Why stop at the accession states? We should close our borders to all foreigners, while still demanding our right to live and work freely elsewhere in the Union. We should selectively apply import tariffs on agricultural goods that compete with home-produced equivalents, while still freely exporting. We should make sure that only Irish fishermen can fish Irish waters, but also allow them to fish elsewhere in the EU. We should continue to use the Euro, but set our own interest rates.

I can't see the other 26 member states having an issue with any of this.

Fairly out of proportion response there. Yeah I think we certainly should limit immigration in some ways. Its not like we'd be the only country doing it.

djpbarry

PaulieD wrote: »

A large majority believe immigration from new EU member states into Ireland should be restricted because the perilous economic situation means we no longer have enough jobs, a Sunday Independent poll has revealed.

If we’re going to talk about restricting immigration, then surely the prime target should be British migrants?

PaulieD wrote: »

Nearly seven out of ten Irish people now want the inflow of foreign nationals to be curtailed fearing that further new arrivals will strain the social welfare system.

That statement makes little sense, but I’d expect nothing less from the Sindo.

mike65

djpbarry wrote: »

If we’re going to talk about restricting immigration, then surely the prime target should be British migrants?

As the most numerous that makes sense and then the UK can reciprocate. And we'll all be happier.

Mena

PaulieD wrote: »

A large majority believe immigration from new EU member states into Ireland should be restricted because the perilous economic situation means we no longer have enough jobs, a Sunday Independent poll has revealed.
Nearly seven out of ten Irish people now want the inflow of foreign nationals to be curtailed fearing that further new arrivals will strain the social welfare system.

That's the funniest bit. These tits don't even know how their own SW system works.

devereaux17

Fools, as if you can just hop off the plan from Bratislava and start claiming the dole in Ireland.

wes

Well, seeing as you can't just show up here and claim Social Welfare, as several people above have already pointed out, I think it fair to say that 7 out of 10 of those people are rather misinformed on the situation.

Dannyboy83

Stupid poll, lame attempt at sensationalisim.

Most of those who responded are probably those who feel strongly about the issue anyway.

Lockstep

As soon as I read the thread title, I just knew it would involve the Sunday Independant.

lostexpectation

so why do they vote for parties like ff and fg who's has been policy is to import cheap labour

sovtek

I wonder if 7 out of ten Irish people would answer differently if asked if they would prefer to be restricted to movement inside the borders of the Republic and if they would prefer to have 30k to 50k people with American accents back here on the "live register".
I would also like to see a survey of Irish people if they are aware that many more foreign nationals paid PRSI than are on the live register.

O'Morris

As the most numerous that makes sense

I don't think that's correct. According to this, almost twice as many PPS numbers were issued to Polish people this year than were issued to people from the United Kingdom.

It's not even clear that British nationals (it's possible that nationalists from the north were included in the figure used in the census) make up the biggest non-Irish group in the population. If Conor Lenihan is right and the number of Poles in the country was around 200,000 two years ago then that would mean that Polish people now probably outnumber British people living here.

sovtek

Bottle_of_Smoke wrote: »

Fairly out of proportion response there. Yeah I think we certainly should limit immigration in some ways. Its not like we'd be the only country doing it.

I guess you are not aware that your goverment has always restricted immigration and continues to do so...although more and more without respect to its own laws much less EU law.

Riskymove

lostexpectation wrote: »

so why do they vote for parties like ff and fg who's has been policy is to import cheap labour

ah but that was different...sure we needed people to build our second homes and serve us in KFC then:rolleyes:

Hookey

Ah, how soon we forget. For 150 years we've been the immigrants (I myself worked abroad for nearly 20 years), we get a few years of immigration and we want to pull up the drawbridge. Hypocrites.

As it happens, it doesn't matter anyway, as your average Pole wasn't here for our fine weather and our pleasant dispositions. As the jobs dry up, they're going elsewhere anyway.

djpbarry

O'Morris wrote: »

It's not even clear that British nationals ... make up the biggest non-Irish group in the population.

But they are one of the biggest, right? Yet whenever a discussion on restricting immigration kicks off, nobody ever suggests that the movement of people from the UK should be limited. Why's that I wonder?

mike65

Most of the Polish are prolly quite transitory whereas most Brits came here to stay or ended up staying.

Taxipete29

Hookey wrote: »

Ah, how soon we forget. For 150 years we've been the immigrants (I myself worked abroad for nearly 20 years), we get a few years of immigration and we want to pull up the drawbridge. Hypocrites.

As it happens, it doesn't matter anyway, as your average Pole wasn't here for our fine weather and our pleasant dispositions. As the jobs dry up, they're going elsewhere anyway.

Its not hypocritical to suggest that we protect our economy. Those immigrants who came here in the good times used us as much as we used them. Some will stay, some will leave, thats what we signed up to. If we are legally enititled to restrict certain nationalities from coming here, what is the problem with that??

The USA, where many of our emigrants went( many illegally) have some of the tightest restrictions on immigration. Australia is not a free for all either.
The truth is most countries have restrictions on immigration and just because we are arriving late to the party so to speak with some of our regulations doesnt make them any less valid. It certainly doesnt make it racist or xenophobic or whatever other buzz word the pc brigade want to throw at it.

Taxipete29

djpbarry wrote: »

But they are one of the biggest, right? Yet whenever a discussion on restricting immigration kicks off, nobody ever suggests that the movement of people from the UK should be limited. Why's that I wonder?

Why should we, I would imagine of you check the numbers as many Irish people go over there every year as British people come here.

Hookey

Taxipete29 wrote: »

Its not hypocritical to suggest that we protect our economy. Those immigrants who came here in the good times used us as much as we used them. Some will stay, some will leave, thats what we signed up to. If we are legally enititled to restrict certain nationalities from coming here, what is the problem with that??

The USA, where many of our emigrants went( many illegally) have some of the tightest restrictions on immigration. Australia is not a free for all either.
The truth is most countries have restrictions on immigration and just because we are arriving late to the party so to speak with some of our regulations doesnt make them any less valid. It certainly doesnt make it racist or xenophobic or whatever other buzz word the pc brigade want to throw at it.

The hypocrisy comes from the fact that we're quite happy to feed at the teat of the EU, but we tend to forget the obligations that come with it. We took a chance on opening up to the accession states early and fully, and we benefited from it. Now times are tough, people want to backtrack.

I have no problem with points-based entry and restrictions for non-EU citizens, but the EU isn't some menu where we can pick and mix only the bits we like.

As for the comments from others on here about Brits, don't be ridiculous. There's a damn sight more of us over there, than them over here.

MiniDriver

djpbarry wrote: »

But they are one of the biggest, right? Yet whenever a discussion on restricting immigration kicks off, nobody ever suggests that the movement of people from the UK should be limited. Why's that I wonder?

Because Irish people are more dependant on the British labour market than British are dependant on the Irish labour market.

btw, the Brits are already starting to take the p*ss out of our economic predicament: http://www.thecrunchtimes.co.uk/html/090614irishemigration.html

O'Morris

djpbarry wrote:

But they are one of the biggest, right? Yet whenever a discussion on restricting immigration kicks off, nobody ever suggests that the movement of people from the UK should be limited.

The focus of immigration control is not on the number of people in the country - it's on the number of entering the country. The British might be one of the biggest non-national groups but that's because they're our nearest neighbour and movement between the two islands is a two-way process that has been going on for a long time. Large-scale immigration from eastern Europe only began 4 or 5 years ago while immigration from Britain has been going on for centuries. The possibility that eastern Europeans now outnumber our nearest neighbours after only a few years of immigration is a strong indication that the number of eastern Europeans entering the country is massively higher than the number of British people entering the country.

If British people did start entering the country in the same numbers as the Poles then that would be a cause of concern. If we were back in the 17th century I'd be as opposed to mass immigration from Britain as I am now opposed to mass immigration from eastern Europe.

djpbarry wrote:

Why's that I wonder?

For the same reason that the Germans and the Austrians restrict access to the eastern Europeans but not to the western Europeans. It's not in our economic interest to restrict immigration from Britain. It is in our economic interests to restrict immigration from the low-wage eastern European countries.

Britain is our next-door neighbours and we have a shared history with them that we don't have with the eastern Europeans.

spank_inferno

The original article from the Sindo is predictable in it it helps nothing

Ireland went against the vast majority of EU states in allowing full entry for the new 10 states a few years ago.

Since then we've changed out mind and blocked the same access for the newest EU entrants: Romania & Bulgaria.

Ireland, like all nations will act in its own interests.
I'm sure many people would like to see a truely open EU, but that isnt the case & it never will be.

Regarding a prev poster saying its wrong for Ireland to change its stance on inward imigration once circumstances change, but that is exactly what should be done. Because its exactly what the other 26 countries will do

oscarBravo

spank_inferno wrote: »

Regarding a prev poster saying its wrong for Ireland to change its stance on inward imigration once circumstances change, but that is exactly what should be done. Because its exactly what the other 26 countries will do

So if the UK decides to impose a ban on migration from Ireland, you'll applaud that decision?

mike65

MiniDriver, that a satire site. Nevermind.

RDM_83

oscarBravo wrote: »

So if the UK decides to impose a ban on migration from Ireland, you'll applaud that decision?

Why do you bother throwing hypotheticals like that? even apart from the historic ties (and probably legal/constitional issues to do with the prerepublic state/grandparents etc).
Since it doesn't seem clear to you the fact is that migration is like any other sort of diffusion, people move if there is is a significant difference in wages/employment prospect, employment may be more likely in the UK though wages are worse, therefore balance of UK>Ireland for higher wages Ireland>UK more employment. This is different to Ireland Poland, with massive difference in wages and high rates of unemployment (even with their boom and our bust).

sovtek

RDM_83 wrote: »

Why do you bother throwing hypotheticals like that? even apart from the historic ties (and probably legal/constitional issues to do with the prerepublic state/grandparents etc).
Since it doesn't seem clear to you the fact is that migration is like any other sort of diffusion, people move if there is is a significant difference in wages/employment prospect, employment may be more likely in the UK though wages are worse, therefore balance of UK>Ireland for higher wages Ireland>UK more employment. This is different to Ireland Poland, with massive difference in wages and high rates of unemployment (even with their boom and our bust).

Probably because it's going to be reciprocated should the "screw the foreignors" brigade ever get their way.
I will I agree with you that blaming the foreignors is a diffusion from actually tackling the real problems of the country.

oscarBravo

RDM_83 wrote: »

Why do you bother throwing hypotheticals like that?

To illustrate the point that we've signed up for the EU, and that means taking the rough with the smooth.

I don't buy the idea that a country with rising unemployment is under threat of mass immigration. There wasn't a whole lot of immigration in the 1980s.

sovtek

O'Morris wrote: »

The focus of immigration control is not on the number of people in the country - it's on the number of entering the country. The British might be one of the biggest non-national groups but that's because they're our nearest neighbour and movement between the two islands is a two-way process that has been going on for a long time. Large-scale immigration from eastern Europe only began 4 or 5 years ago while immigration from Britain has been going on for centuries. The possibility that eastern Europeans now outnumber our nearest neighbours after only a few years of immigration is a strong indication that the number of eastern Europeans entering the country is massively higher than the number of British people entering the country.

If British people did start entering the country in the same numbers as the Poles then that would be a cause of concern. If we were back in the 17th century I'd be as opposed to mass immigration from Britain as I am now opposed to mass immigration from eastern Europe.




For the same reason that the Germans and the Austrians restrict access to the eastern Europeans but not to the western Europeans. It's not in our economic interest to restrict immigration from Britain. It is in our economic interests to restrict immigration from the low-wage eastern European countries.

Britain is our next-door neighbours and we have a shared history with them that we don't have with the eastern Europeans.

Are you also opposed to the Irish having the same limits put on them?