Child Benefit reduction confirmed...

Math Coke

In response to dvpower, if you were to cut VAT on items related to children I can only imagine the retailers would bump up the price, maybe not straight away but slowly through the passage of time any benefit to the consumer would be eroded. For some people the child benefit pays for the shoes/clothes or nappies but for others it is the second holiday or trip to the salon. Really though, abolishing it would hit a lot of people very hard!

I am in favour of means testing but not taxing it. The question then is:-

what kinda household income would stop you getting CB??

graciebaby

Irony Maiden, unfortuately, it's a case of actually being able to afford to go work that will cause problems, not that I don't want to work, and it is a worry because I can't afford to not work either!

Also taking money out of the system will have a knock on effect on other areas too- take retail, for example, many small shops are closing already because people have no money to buy anything. Those who worked in the shops have children in creches, they'll now have to take them out, creches loose business, then close, creche staff loose jobs etc.

yes, it is true that for some c.benefit means getting the nails done or retouching the highlights once a month, but for many it is the money to pay for the schoolbooks,clothes, shoes, school bus fees, braces and the millions of other things kids need.

IT Loser

Anybody who says that there is "NO INCENTIVE TO WORK" needs their head examining, or is being bloody insulting for the sake of it.

If you know anything about anything then you know that a job is SO MUCH MORE than a basic income.

I WANT OUT of my Parents house.
I WANT a motor
I WANT to date a girl and go to a restaurant with her and meet her folks

I CANT do ANY of the above COS I GOT NO JOB.

To suggest I would willingly swap a motor, a life and a position in society for €204 a week and a trip to the Dole Office every month is so wrong. Its just so wrong.

And to think: I have to wait 10 weeks just to have the luxury in the first place?

IT Loser

graciebaby wrote: »

Irony Maiden, unfortuately, it's a case of actually being able to afford to go work that will cause problems, not that I don't want to work, and it is a worry because I can't afford to not work either!

Also taking money out of the system will have a knock on effect on other areas too- take retail, for example, many small shops are closing already because people have no money to buy anything. Those who worked in the shops have children in creches, they'll now have to take them out, creches loose business, then close, creche staff loose jobs etc.

yes, it is true that for some c.benefit means getting the nails done or retouching the highlights once a month, but for many it is the money to pay for the schoolbooks,clothes, shoes, school bus fees, braces and the millions of other things kids need.

So true: friend of mine, his father works in stone and gravel. He basically summed the trouble up when he said that what was needed was for people to "just start spending again".

Its the bottom line. We need a circulation of capital. Stopping money never made money.

MILF

I lost my job in Jan after working years in a legal firm as a legal sec. Next thing I know, I've no option but to go on the dole. It's all new to me. I hate, hate, HATE it but I HAVE NO OPTION. I apply for every job I think I'm suitable for but I don't even get a recognition email from these recruiters anymore. The child benefit, especially since Jan, was digging me out of a huge hole bill-wise each month and I expect it is doing the same for thousands of families around the country. I so desperately want to get back to work, to get my kids back in a creche and interacting with other kids and for us to stop surviving and start living...but we can't. Taking away more money from the likes of me is putting SO MUCH PRESSURE on an already near-exploding pressure pot is too much.

It's a rant, I know, but I am a product of what this Government, and their decisions, are doing to us.

97i9y3941

im sure some are going to be upset that their social life will be affected now...

IT Loser

Fred83 wrote: »

im sure some are going to be upset that their social life will be affected now...

Now, I think you might rephrase that so as to be less inflammatory.

Mrs Smurfit used to save up the kiddies allowance and buy shoes with it.

So what if the rest of the mommas get the occassional night out with the difference???

97i9y3941

i did say some ,i know theres people that really depend on it of course,apologises

niceirishfella

MILF wrote: »

I lost my job in Jan after working years in a legal firm as a legal sec. Next thing I know, I've no option but to go on the dole. It's all new to me. I hate, hate, HATE it but I HAVE NO OPTION. I apply for every job I think I'm suitable for but I don't even get a recognition email from these recruiters anymore. The child benefit, especially since Jan, was digging me out of a huge hole bill-wise each month and I expect it is doing the same for thousands of families around the country. I so desperately want to get back to work, to get my kids back in a creche and interacting with other kids and for us to stop surviving and start living...but we can't. Taking away more money from the likes of me is putting SO MUCH PRESSURE on an already near-exploding pressure pot is too much.

It's a rant, I know, but I am a product of what this Government, and their decisions, are doing to us.

Milf, I hear ya! Hang on in there.

icbarros

dvpower wrote: »

The problem with means testing is that, while it is fairer, it does requires a lot of administration. That's a whole pile of new civil servants - money paid to adminitrators, not children.

Good point!
And I heard they are not even coping with the Jobseeker allowance means tests.

And HSE is spending €16m, yes, sixteen million euro a year to hire advisers!:eek:
(The Irish mail, June 28)

97i9y3941

its like everything else,if you work for the gov you got them by the balls when comes to pay and contracts....

gowayouttadat

I don't think the public service are capable of means testing CB without the administration of it costing a fortune in the long run. To me taxing it is the only possible way of introducing the cuts. How they do it will be extremely important. If they're going to tax it at income tax rates will people like MILF who are on the dole be exempt because they don't currently pay income tax? etc etc

There are endless questions that can't be answered until we are fully aware of how they are going to go about it. I know couples who currently don't even spend CB. They put it in an account for when the child hits 18. Things like that need to be stopped but they need to do it sensibly. I have my doubts that this government will be able to implement this successfully.

IT Loser

gowayouttadat wrote: »

I don't think the public service are capable of means testing CB without the administration of it costing a fortune in the long run. To me taxing it is the only possible way of introducing the cuts. How they do it will be extremely important. If they're going to tax it at income tax rates will people like MILF who are on the dole be exempt because they don't currently pay income tax? etc etc

There are endless questions that can't be answered until we are fully aware of how they are going to go about it. I know couples who currently don't even spend CB. They put it in an account for when the child hits 18. Things like that need to be stopped but they need to do it sensibly. I have my doubts that this government will be able to implement this successfully.

That was the excuse Hanafin was getting ready to make alright..."Oooh...the logistics of means testing 500,000 mothers".

Nolanger

Fred83 wrote: »

its like everything else,if you work for the gov you got them by the balls when comes to pay and contracts....

The only people with brains in government are the consultants.

schumacher

There are endless questions that can't be answered until we are fully aware of how they are going to go about it. I know couples who currently don't even spend CB. They put it in an account for when the child hits 18. Things like that need to be stopped but they need to do it sensibly. I have my doubts that this government will be able to implement this successfully.[/quote]

I dont see whats wrong with that. Does anyone ever think that people have money because they have worked hard and maybe even saved their money and not spent it on overpriced houses, cars and holidays without ever saving and thinking the raining days would eventually come. I dont have children but i dont understand why people cant accept that they are somewhta to blame for the debt that they find themselves in and people who dont have debt-maybe it is because they didnt live a high life when the celtic tiger was here.Why should they be punished more so than they already are?

dvpower

schumacher wrote: »

Why should they be punished more so than they already are?

Why should they get social welfare payments?

schumacher

dvpower wrote: »

Why should they get social welfare payments?

Because they have a child and a child is a child regardless of whether they have rich or poor parents. Why should they have to pay child benefit through their taxes because that have maybe worked harder for their money?

dvpower

schumacher wrote: »

Because they have a child and a child is a child regardless of whether they have rich or poor parents. Why should they have to pay child benefit through their taxes because that have maybe worked harder for their money?

And where do you suggest we get the money to pay rich parents Child Benefit?

Fighting Irish

schumacher wrote: »

I dont see whats wrong with that. Does anyone ever think that people have money because they have worked hard and maybe even saved their money and not spent it on overpriced houses, cars and holidays without ever saving and thinking the raining days would eventually come. I dont have children but i dont understand why people cant accept that they are somewhta to blame for the debt that they find themselves in and people who dont have debt-maybe it is because they didnt live a high life when the celtic tiger was here.Why should they be punished more so than they already are?

Somewhat?

No, its the banks and the governments fault :pac:

Fighting Irish

dvpower wrote: »

And where do you suggest we get the money to pay rich parents Child Benefit?

that's what broke/jealous people say, i prefer "successful" and most of the time hard working

schumacher

Fighting Irish wrote: »

Somewhat?

No, its the banks and the governments fault :pac:

Are you joking?
I believe the banks and the government have a role to play but noone made the person take out the loan for the overpriced house, holiday, car?!!

schumacher

dvpower wrote: »

And where do you suggest we get the money to pay rich parents Child Benefit?

The same place they get it for the poor parents! If they cant afford it cut it for all not just the rich!

IT Loser

They should tax Child Benefit the same way they tax Income.

If the parents income falls within a certain tax band then the Child benefit should fall within the same tax band.

If the parents are paying no income tax, then they should be assessed independently to see why.

dvpower

schumacher wrote: »

The same place they get it for the poor parents! If they cant afford it cut it for all not just the rich!

Fair enough. They should get it from middle income workers (where most of the tax base originates).

I'm just not in favour of taxing ordinary workers to pay better off people social welfare benefits.

dvpower

Fighting Irish wrote: »

that's what broke/jealous people say, i prefer "successful" and most of the time hard working

Well, I'm neither broke nor jeasous (I am hard working and sucessful). I also receive child benefit that I could do without. But its nice of you folk to make transfers to me:)

schumacher

dvpower wrote: »

Fair enough. They should get it from middle income workers (where most of the tax base originates).

I'm just not in favour of taxing ordinary workers to pay better off people social welfare benefits.

Neither am I. Im in favour of a more equal tax system where it just doenst be cut for better off people it is taxed like normal income is.
Im all in favour of widening the tax base to include lower income workers, people on welfare and rich people with second houses etc. The burden should not all on one group alone.

Fighting Irish

schumacher wrote: »

Are you joking?
I believe the banks and the government have a role to play but noone made the person take out the loan for the overpriced house, holiday, car?!!

the :pac: means i was joking


I agree with you

dvpower

schumacher wrote: »

Im all in favour of widening the tax base to include lower income workers, people on welfare and rich people with second houses etc. The burden should not all on one group alone.

The only category above not currently in the tax base are people on welfare. So you are in favour of bringing welfare recipients into the tax base while continuing to pay rich people child benefit?

schumacher

dvpower wrote: »

The only category above not currently in the tax base are people on welfare. So you are in favour of bringing welfare recipients into the tax base while continuing to pay rich people child benefit?

That makes it sound like im in favour of making rich people richer with tax payers money which I'm not. Not all low income workers are in the tax base and for the people with two houses I meant to say bring in a big property tax that they have to pay not the tiny amount they have to pay now. Its not that I believe we should pay rich people more. Its the people who have worked hard which is probably the middle income people but can include very rich people that I believe the tax system should protect. They are the people contributing to the economy. People should be taxed according to what they earn but I dont believe in cruxifixing people who have worked harder and havent got themselves in the same mess that other people have by making foolish choices during the boom time.

who what when

These arguements about the bridge are rediculous!! Every euro spent on infrastructure is repaid many times over in terms of benefit to society!!

What about these professional baby factories who just have children in order to claim benefit? These children then grow up to cause thousands of euros worth in vandalism, police time and benefits they in turn will claim when their old enough.

Child benefit is too much, as are all benefits! The money should be givin to people in the form of free education and training, free broadband, medical card for under 16's etc. If you take the major costs out of having children instead of giving a monetry reward the country would be much better off!!