Does anyone care?

Gunth

Recently I spent some time fishing a few different marks in Kerry and I witnessed a new low for me. Eventhough I have seen alot of incidences in which give anglers a bad reputation this one has made it's way to the top of my list.
It was roughly 07:30am and I arrived to a well known mackerel spot which was already being fished by a group of six Eastern Europeans who knew each other(This is not an anti Eastern European thread, I am just reporting what I saw). Everything was fine as I went about my business of setting up my beachcaster and feathers when I heard a celebratory roar as one of the group caught a pollack no more than a 1lb in weight. This was followed a few minutes later by two mackerel and someone else followed that up with a sand eel and a pollack less than 1lb in weight.
To my astonishment all the fish including the sand eel were knocked on the head and bagged. After this I quickly left in disgust. I don't have a problem with the mackerel being kept but everyone knows that pollack are not the nicest to eat but once they gain in weight they are a fantastic fighting fish. A pollack of 7lbs on light spinning gear is amazing which I encountered two days later. It was released back into the sea!
My point is that if conservation is thrown out we might as well pack it all in right now. Catch and release is necessary for all species when they are only in their infancy. I know people will say keeping two small pollack is insignificant but if this attitude is widespread a lot more anglers will be blanking in time.
Bass fishing is where my heart is and if these same people start to figure out how to catch bass and keep every size, well then we all know what the end result will be.
Sea angling in this country is an untapped resource when it comes to tourism and it is a shame that it is not promoted properly internationally. My point is conservation is key.

mawk

i throw back most fish I catch, its all about the sport of course.

but I quite like the taste of pollack, and keep all the launce i catch. they are good bait

coolwings

In angling there have always been "meat men" to whom the water is a source of protein that will magically last for ever no matter how much they take. Every country in the world has anglers like these, including Ireland, the same as every country has people who drop their litter and rubbish where they stand and trash the wild places.

Abusers of the wilds and of fishing have no reason to change habits of a lifetime to conform to Irish laws and ways if they are unchallenged, and the matter is not discussed, or there is no person of authority pointing to a law being broken and penalties thereof.

Did you speak with them to explain your dismay at what you saw?

Degsy

I saw two of them in blessington catch a one pound pike,knock it on the head and put it in a bag.
I was actually too angry to say anything.

Zzippy

coolwings wrote: »

In angling there have always been "meat men" to whom the water is a source of protein that will magically last for ever no matter how much they take. Every country in the world has anglers like these, including Ireland, the same as every country has people who drop their litter and rubbish where they stand and trash the wild places.

Abusers of the wilds and of fishing have no reason to change habits of a lifetime to conform to Irish laws and ways if they are unchallenged, and the matter is not discussed, or there is no person of authority pointing to a law being broken and penalties thereof.

Did you speak with them to explain your dismay at what you saw?

That's all well and good, but they weren't breaking any laws. Maybe the OP should write a post about how he intends to lobby for a change in regulations so that small pollack can't be taken, rather than complain about foreign anglers taking small fish that they are perfectly entitled to. Yes, I know its not right, but thats the law. And the post smacks of xenophobia - "I'm not racist but..."

Degsy wrote: »

I saw two of them in blessington catch a one pound pike,knock it on the head and put it in a bag.
I was actually too angry to say anything.

A 1lb pike is almost certainly less than 50cm long, so its legal to kill one a day. Unless they took more than that they were obeying the law. See above.

pullandbang

I'ts amazing how many East Europeans kill everything they catch compared to locals. Yes you will get the odd local who is a bag man, but the percentage of foreigners who do it is virtually 100% from my experience. Mind you, they do actually eat them which is better than dumping them in a ditch.

Zzippy

pullandbang wrote: »

I'ts amazing how many East Europeans kill everything they catch compared to locals. Yes you will get the odd local who is a bag man, but the percentage of foreigners who do it is virtually 100% from my experience. Mind you, they do actually eat them which is better than dumping them in a ditch.

Lads, can we get away from the generalisations about foreign anglers. I know several Polish and Latvian anglers personally who put back a lot of the fish they catch. One of them even works in a tackle shop here. There are an awful lot of Irish "anglers" who take virtually everything they catch too - what about the thousands of mackerel that are caught and left in plastic bags to rot?

I have first hand experience of working in fisheries and I would rather see a Polish guy taking a few fish than his Irish neighbour pulling a net, I know which one causes more damage.

yank_in_eire

I think this just points another finger at the disturbing lack of enforcement of conservation laws in Ireland. For a country with such fantastic natural resources, the government seems to do precious little to ensure that those resources are available for future generations to enjoy.

beer enigma

I'm happy enough to keep this thread open on an 'enforcement' ideas basis - more lobbying should be done in Ireland to get the laws surrounding fishing (rod licences ?), conservation changed etc....

Just dont let it get racist in any way or I'll close it.

thanks & enjoy

Zzippy

yank_in_eire wrote: »

I think this just points another finger at the disturbing lack of enforcement of conservation laws in Ireland. For a country with such fantastic natural resources, the government seems to do precious little to ensure that those resources are available for future generations to enjoy.

Really?
What conservation laws have been broken in the instances mentioned in this thread?
I'll tell you - none.

I work in fisheries, and I can tell you, I'm fed up of people like you complaining about us not doing our job - some of our guys are lying out in ditches overnight at the moment trying to catch poachers, and all you can do is have a go. As I said, not one of the posts on this thread involved any illegal activity, so this thread doesn't

point another finger at the disturbing lack of enforcement of conservation laws in Ireland

How about having a go at government for not passing enough conservation laws, and for the total lack of protection for most marine species, rather than pointing your lazy finger at the people enforcing what few laws we have? :rolleyes:

Steffano2002

Andip wrote: »

I'm happy enough to keep this thread open on an 'enforcement' ideas basis - more lobbying should be done in Ireland to get the laws surrounding fishing (rod licences ?), conservation changed etc....

What is a "rod license" Andip? I believe they have these in the UK but I don't know what they are...

I hail from France where the attitude towards fishing (and hunting) is extremelly liberal. I stopped fishing the second I arrived in Ireland (because I didn't know where to start...) but I've decided to take up fly fishing as Ireland is probably one of the best countries in the world for it!

Zzippy

Steffano2002 wrote: »

What is a "rod license" Andip? I believe they have these in the UK but I don't know what they are...

I hail from France where the attitude towards fishing (and hunting) is extremelly liberal. I stopped fishing the second I arrived in Ireland (because I didn't know where to start...) but I've decided to take up fly fishing as Ireland is probably one of the best countries in the world for it!

There is no "rod licence" in Ireland. You can fish for most species without a licence, although you may need a permit. If you want to fish for salmon or sea trout, you must have a salmon licence.

Steffano2002

Zzippy wrote: »

There is no "rod licence" in Ireland. You can fish for most species without a licence, although you may need a permit. If you want to fish for salmon or sea trout, you must have a salmon licence.

So if Ireland introduces a "rod license", does it mean we'll have to pass an exam (like they do in Germany for example) or does it simply mean we'll have to buy a license to fish and then buy a permit for the areas we want to fish?

I apologise for my ignorance on the subject.

Zzippy

Steffano2002 wrote: »

So if Ireland introduces a "rod license", does it mean we'll have to pass an exam (like they do in Germany for example) or does it simply mean we'll have to buy a license to fish and then buy a permit for the areas we want to fish?

I apologise for my ignorance on the subject.

No. If you want to fish for salmon you buy a salmon licence, then a permit for the river you want to fish. No exam.

Steffano2002

Zzippy wrote: »

No. If you want to fish for salmon you buy a salmon licence, then a permit for the river you want to fish. No exam.

Thanks for that Zzippy!

Now, tricky one for you! Let's say I'm fishing for brown trout and happen to catch a salmon (highly unlikely - I know). Am I required by law to release it?

8k2q1gfcz9s5d4

Im am not being racist;

I have never seen an eastern european, or traveller angler throw a fish back, regardless of size. They assume all fish must be eaten

pullandbang

Zzippy wrote: »

Lads, can we get away from the generalisations about foreign anglers. I know several Polish and Latvian anglers personally who put back a lot of the fish they catch.

I'm trying not to generalise but am working on my own first hand experience.
All of the foreign anglers - and I mean ALL that have been caught fishing our river without permits have killed everything they've caught.
All, and again I mean ALL of the Polish that I work with, who fish, kill every fish they catch.

I'm delighted that there are some out there who don't, but I've yet to meet one!

beer enigma

Zzippy wrote: »

Really?
What conservation laws have been broken in the instances mentioned in this thread?
I'll tell you - none.

I work in fisheries, and I can tell you, I'm fed up of people like you complaining about us not doing our job - some of our guys are lying out in ditches overnight at the moment trying to catch poachers, and all you can do is have a go. As I said, not one of the posts on this thread involved any illegal activity, so this thread doesn't
How about having a go at government for not passing enough conservation laws, and for the total lack of protection for most marine species, rather than pointing your lazy finger at the people enforcing what few laws we have? :rolleyes:

I dont think anyone is having a go at the enforcement teams (well I hope not) - the issue here primarily lays at the lack of laws/conservation. From personal knowledge of people involved in enforcement both in Ireland & the UK, it appears that the law 'as is' is enforced to the best of ability/resource. Resource probably the key word.

The problem seems to be that the laws are very lax & probably as worrying, even if the laws were tightened, in the current climate there just wouldnt be the funding made available for enforcement.

Angling doesn't seem to be high on the Govt agenda unfortunately & to a certain degree it wasn't with the UK Gov either. Much was done in the UK through Clubs & Angling press & the govt was lobbied in hand with the tourism industry to a point where they started to take notice. It was hard work getting the laws introduced & to be honest even harder making sure they were enforced - many a spare day spend unpaid strolling the banks & taking abuse from Anglers without licences.

The issue is far from just one of introducing laws - we need a complete framework & mindset to get change, but it needs to happen & sooner rather than later.

Zzippy

Steffano2002 wrote: »

Thanks for that Zzippy!

Now, tricky one for you! Let's say I'm fishing for brown trout and happen to catch a salmon (highly unlikely - I know). Am I required by law to release it?

Yes. Immediately. Alive!

pullandbang wrote: »

I'm trying not to generalise but am working on my own first hand experience.
All of the foreign anglers - and I mean ALL that have been caught fishing our river without permits have killed everything they've caught.
All, and again I mean ALL of the Polish that I work with, who fish, kill every fish they catch.

I'm delighted that there are some out there who don't, but I've yet to meet one!

I'm not saying a lot of them don't kill all the fish they catch, but you're talkign about a sample of guys who are already fishing illegally without a permit. If its a trout river, I'm quite sure there are Irish guys fishing it legally who also kill an awful lot of the fish they catch.
Lads, I'm not saying they don't do it, I'm saying both Irish and non-Irish anglers are at this, so lets focus our anger on them, regardless of nationality. Concentrating on foreign anglers gives the Irish guy a free ride in many cases, and contributes to racism/xenophobia in wider society.
And FYI, in the last 2 weeks I've dealt with 4 complaints about illegal fishing and/or poaching with nets. All of them related to Irish guys doing this.

yank_in_eire

Zzippy wrote: »

I work in fisheries, and I can tell you, I'm fed up of people like you complaining about us not doing our job - some of our guys are lying out in ditches overnight at the moment trying to catch poachers, and all you can do is have a go. As I said, not one of the posts on this thread involved any illegal activity, so this thread doesn't

How about having a go at government for not passing enough conservation laws, and for the total lack of protection for most marine species, rather than pointing your lazy finger at the people enforcing what few laws we have? :rolleyes:

First of all, I've been that guy lying in the ditch overnight and I know exactly what you're going through, so back off!
While you are correct in saying that no conservation laws were broken, you and I both know that it's not good practice to kill every fish you take and that is definitely going on in a good many places.
Second if you take a peek out from behind that massive chip on your shoulder and read my post again, you'll see that I specifically mentioned the government's lack of activity - not the individuals employed to enforce the paltry few laws that currently exist.
Maybe have a deep breath and a bit of a think before you go chewing the heads off people who are on your side?

Zzippy

yank_in_eire wrote: »

First of all, I've been that guy lying in the ditch overnight and I know exactly what you're going through, so back off!
While you are correct in saying that no conservation laws were broken, you and I both know that it's not good practice to kill every fish you take and that is definitely going on in a good many places.
Second if you take a peek out from behind that massive chip on your shoulder and read my post again, you'll see that I specifically mentioned the government's lack of activity - not the individuals employed to enforce the paltry few laws that currently exist.
Maybe have a deep breath and a bit of a think before you go chewing the heads off people who are on your side?

Hang on there, you started off by saying:

I think this just points another finger at the disturbing lack of enforcement of conservation laws in Ireland.

It did nothing of the sort, there were no laws broken, and you got straight on and talked about "lack of enforcement" when there were no conservation laws to be enforced in the first place. Tell me how that isn't a dig at the enforcement agencies. If you had written "lack of conservation laws" that might have been appropriate or relevant to the thread.

Then, you had a go at the govt for doing feck all:

For a country with such fantastic natural resources, the government seems to do precious little to ensure that those resources are available for future generations to enjoy.

Maybe you should consider what you write a bit more carefully before you hit Submit. And I certainly don't have a chip on my shoulder, I'm just fed up of ill-informed comments.

Steffano2002

Zzippy wrote: »

Yes. Immediately. Alive!

Thank you for the all the info!

Gunth

It is interesting to read what people think of the current situation that anglers find themselves in. I acknowledge the fact that with our vast coast line and many rivers and lakes it would be almost impossible to police even with a huge increase in resources for the fishery boards.

Personally I think that there should be a minimum size requirement attached to every species of fish that one wants to keep and also a limit placed on the amount that can be caught in a 24hr period i.e. similar to the current bass laws that are in place. I know people will mention the fact that an angler is incomparable to the amount that a commercial vessel is capable of catching in one day but that I don't want to bring the whole commercial issue into this thread.

From reading everyone’s posts it is obvious that we all have a part to play and as someone mentioned previously a change in mindset is necessary.
The current setup of fishing in Ireland needs a complete overhaul and like any sport it requires rules and regulations. As we live in a civilised society the majority of us obey current laws and fishing should be no different.
Somebody mentioned in an earlier post that when I saw the small fish being kept why didn’t I voice my objection, but my answer is that fishing is my hobby and I don’t want to have to police those around me.

What to do? I have some answers but because this is not an issue that is griping the nation it will remain far down the list of priorities for the foreseeable future.

Unfortunately with people losing jobs netting will increase and some people will show little respect on fish size and numbers caught.:mad:

It is great to see the posters here caring about their fishing and wanting to protect it and even though there are minor differences I think it is safe to say that we are all on the same wavelength. (No pun intended:D)

Do people have solutions to the problems that are mentioned thoughout this thread? If so please post them. Obviously the solutions need to be pratical and fair to everyone involved.(If that is possible?)

Zzippy

Gunth wrote: »

It is interesting to read what people think of the current situation that anglers find themselves in. I acknowledge the fact that with our vast coast line and many rivers and lakes it would be almost impossible to police even with a huge increase in resources for the fishery boards.

Personally I think that there should be a minimum size requirement attached to every species of fish that one wants to keep and also a limit placed on the amount that can be caught in a 24hr period i.e. similar to the current bass laws that are in place. I know people will mention the fact that an angler is incomparable to the amount that a commercial vessel is capable of catching in one day but that I don't want to bring the whole commercial issue into this thread.

From reading everyone’s posts it is obvious that we all have a part to play and as someone mentioned previously a change in mindset is necessary.
The current setup of fishing in Ireland needs a complete overhaul and like any sport it requires rules and regulations. As we live in a civilised society the majority of us obey current laws and fishing should be no different.

Somebody mentioned in an earlier post that when I saw the small fish being kept why didn’t I voice my objection, but my answer is that fishing is my hobby and I don’t want to have to police those around me.

What to do? I have some answers but because this is not an issue that is griping the nation it will remain far down the list of priorities for the foreseeable future.

Unfortunately with people losing jobs netting will increase and some people will show little respect on fish size and numbers caught.:mad:

It is great to see the posters here caring about their fishing and wanting to protect it and even though there are minor differences I think it is safe to say that we are all on the same wavelength. (No pun intended:D)
Do people have solutions to the problems that are mentioned thoughout this thread? If so please post them. Obviously the solutions need to be pratical and fair to everyone involved.(If that is possible?)

Good post. I think size and catch limits for all species would be a great start, or a slot limit.
Although its an emotive issue going back to the rod licence "war", I think a rod licence for all fishing should be introduced. The revenue from this licence to be ringfenced and go back into protection and development. I think a licence would introduce a modicum of more responsible behaviour, and make enforcement a lot easier. Yes, there is the problem of commercial fishing, but we can only look after our own house first and then worry about others.

On the issue of commercial fishing, there should be a ban on all trawling and gillnetting within 3 miles of the coast - this should be a sanctuary area for juvenile fish. The most important spawning and nursery areas are inshore, and the benefits from conserving these young fish would be seen by both recreational and commercial fishermen.

ButcherOfNog

The Fisheries board are wildly understaffed, they have very few people on the ground covering a massive amount of water. Even with that, the ERFB have been excellent up our way, cannot have any complaints about the staff on the ground.

yank_in_eire

Zzippy wrote: »

Good post. I think size and catch limits for all species would be a great start, or a slot limit.
Although its an emotive issue going back to the rod licence "war", I think a rod licence for all fishing should be introduced. The revenue from this licence to be ringfenced and go back into protection and development. I think a licence would introduce a modicum of more responsible behaviour, and make enforcement a lot easier. Yes, there is the problem of commercial fishing, but we can only look after our own house first and then worry about others.

On the issue of commercial fishing, there should be a ban on all trawling and gillnetting within 3 miles of the coast - this should be a sanctuary area for juvenile fish. The most important spawning and nursery areas are inshore, and the benefits from conserving these young fish would be seen by both recreational and commercial fishermen.

Both good ideas. I don't think anyone who fishes would mind paying for a rod licence if the funds generated were plowed straight back into fisheries improvement. It's likely though that unless the money was securely set aside for that purpose only, it would just be used to finance some gov't fatcat's new Merc or golf trip to the Caribbean or something equally ridiculous. Take that money and hire a full-time dedicated staff of enforcement officers (whose numbers don't fluctuate depending on whatever mood the world economy is in) give them proper equipment and the backing of the court system and Gardai and pay them a wage that they could actually support a family on and we'd be getting somewhere.

yank_in_eire

ButcherOfNog wrote: »

The Fisheries board are wildly understaffed, they have very few people on the ground covering a massive amount of water. Even with that, the ERFB have been excellent up our way, cannot have any complaints about the staff on the ground.

The FB are wildly understaffed because they are massively underfunded. My hat is off to anybody who can make a living working in Fisheries in Ireland. Maybe a single person could just about scrape by on the salaries they pay, but add a few kids and a mortgage and it's out of the question.

Zzippy

yank_in_eire wrote: »

Both good ideas. I don't think anyone who fishes would mind paying for a rod licence if the funds generated were plowed straight back into fisheries improvement. It's likely though that unless the money was securely set aside for that purpose only, it would just be used to finance some gov't fatcat's new Merc or golf trip to the Caribbean or something equally ridiculous. Take that money and hire a full-time dedicated staff of enforcement officers (whose numbers don't fluctuate depending on whatever mood the world economy is in) give them proper equipment and the backing of the court system and Gardai and pay them a wage that they could actually support a family on and we'd be getting somewhere.

It could be ringfenced very easily. The money from the conservation stamp (half the cost of your salmon licence) is ringfenced and ploughed back into improvement work on salmon rivers. So far it has paid for several fish counters in our region, as well as a lot of habitat work. Its one of the few examples of where your money actually does go into something where you can see tangible benefits, and not back into the big black hole that is government finances.

yank_in_eire wrote: »

The FB are wildly understaffed because they are massively underfunded. My hat is off to anybody who can make a living working in Fisheries in Ireland. Maybe a single person could just about scrape by on the salaries they pay, but add a few kids and a mortgage and it's out of the question.

The pay isn't that bad, yes the scale starts pretty low but its not the breadline by any means. The levies have hit lower paid staff pretty hard though, a lot of our younger staff are resigned to renting for many years before they can afford a place of their own.
The real problem is the non-pay budget - feck all money available to do the job, we could see fuel restrictions etc later this year which will mean less patrols. Also the embargo on recruitment means losing staff on contracts and retirees with no replacements, so a reduction in number of patrols.

BTW, 2 captures of poachers and 3 nets in the last 24 hours - these staff may not be well paid but they sure are dedicated. F*ckin delighted with the results!

D Audio Tripper

Zzippy wrote: »

BTW, 2 captures of poachers and 3 nets in the last 24 hours - these staff may not be well paid but they sure are dedicated. F*ckin delighted with the results!

Good stuff..

Gunth

BTW, 2 captures of poachers and 3 nets in the last 24 hours - these staff may not be well paid but they sure are dedicated. F*ckin delighted with the results!

Fantastic to hear. I have always wondered as to what happens to the poachers once they are caught?

Zzippy

Gunth wrote: »

BTW, 2 captures of poachers and 3 nets in the last 24 hours - these staff may not be well paid but they sure are dedicated. F*ckin delighted with the results!

Fantastic to hear. I have always wondered as to what happens to the poachers once they are caught?

We tie them up, strip them naked and dip them into boiling acid :pac:

Nah, they get a slap on the wrist in court - judges are a joke