Design a logo?

Baggio...

mountain wrote: »

the op asked for a favour, thats all.

If people dont want to do it, just dont answer, there is no need to go on about how wrong it is to have asked.

Well, why could'nt he have offered something in return? Even if it's not cash. Perhaps, some of his recoreding skills, or even a bottle of whiskey - something like that?

And then he proceeds to tell us that it takes virtually no time to create a logo... That just shows his ignorance of the industry.

mountain

Baggio... wrote: »

Well, why could'nt he have offered something in return? Even if it's not cash. Perhaps, some of his recoreding skills, or even a bottle of whiskey - something like that?

thats a fair point, in the past i have printed jobs for people foc, and when the odd one comes back with a bottle of wine or whiskey (it really has happened) it makes it worth while, the warm feeling lasts all day.

Some times there can be as much joy in the giving as in the receiving.

Hank_Scorpio

mountain wrote: »

thats a fair point, in the past i have printed jobs for people foc, and when the odd one comes back with a bottle of wine or whiskey (it really has happened) it makes it worth while, the warm feeling lasts all day.

Some times there can be as much joy in the giving as in the receiving.

I do be on other forums and discussing prices or requesting free/spec work is strictly forbidden. And they have classified sections for actual work where payment is arranged by the two parties.

There's a legal side to this too. Not just designers with a stuck up nose.

Pub07

Baggio... wrote: »

Again, and I'm not the only on who pointed this out. So what if he's done work for free!? What the hell has that got to do with anything? I've done lots of work for free in my past, for charity and my mates. So does that mean I can go anywhere I like and expect something for nothing?

If what you mean by "spoiling the thread" is that it will not encourage other people to ask for free work - then that's a job well done.

Hank Scorpio wrote:

The OP choose to work for free and give his time and efforts and skills for free.

That's his choice. To come on a forum and ask someone to work for free for them is a different matter. It's different if someone offers to work for free.

I don't see why I should spend half of my day working for free when I have a other paid work to do that is worth €150 for half a day.

Weigh it up like.

It's all well and good saying that we're all pricks for wanting a bit of money for doing the logo.

But you wouldn't go on a Construction Forum and ask someone to build you a shed for free, simply because you worked on a building site for free for a few months.

The fact that the OP has done free work for others in a different industry doesn't mean we should bend over backwards because "he's a good guy".

You wouldn't waking to the shops and fill up the trolley with goods and then walk out. When asked why you didn't pay "Oh I did some free work with a band earlier today so I thought I'd help myself to some free food"


It's just not how our society works.


Requesting work for free is not right.

Jesus what is so hard for you to understand??? Seriously, do you not get it?? The point is he didn't come in here, as some of you are making out, expecting or demanding someone make a simple logo for him, HE HASKED would anyone like to do it. Asked as in not forcing anybody to do anything. He's entitled to ask, and people are entitled to say yes or no if they want. Why does anyone need you guys coming in and attacking the op? To reiterate, HE ASKED NOT EXPECTED OR DEMANDED someone help him.

He's not looking for one of you knob-heads to do it, he's looking for an amateur with an interest in design. So you can lay off all the 'why should we in the design industry devalue our industry or work for free' or 'I don't see why I should spend half of my day working for free when I have a other paid work to do that is worth €150 for half a day' nonsense. HE IS NOT LOOKING FOR OR EXPECTING professional designers like yourselves to do a professional job for him, he's looking for a hobbyist to knock out a quick logo that will very likely not be a patch on what he could get done if he went the professional route.

Is it that hard to understand?? He has come on here asking if someone would like to do him a simple logo and you guys are acting like he has demanded professional corporate branding or demanded a whole website has be designed from scratch for free.

Asking for advise on threads is completely separate from asking someone to give up their time, and do some work for 'nout. Anyone here would be more that willing to offer advise to anyone. But go onto the "mechanics" forum and ask if they will change your exhaust for free.

Eh, I'm not talking about just looking for advice. I was talking about pro web developers helping out less experienced people by fixing their sites for free, as in getting the admin log in details and going in and working on the code of the site. Work that would cost a fortune if they had to hire a consultant who charged by the hour to do it, which would probably be their only other option if their more experienced web developers weren't so generous and helpful. Other members on other forums here on boards also help each other for nothing in various ways, on the fitness forum for example, some of the professional trainers, have given free training sessions to less experienced members of the forum. These guys would be charging 80+ quid a session if they weren't doing it as a favour, and they are not looking for anything in return, just like the web dev guys who help out aren't looking for or demanding anything in return.


I'm getting a distinct vibe of greed off some of the members on this forum, to think that you would start demanding somebody pay for a simple logo that they asked for, for a garage band/bedroom musician is just ludicrous. No garage band gets in pro designers to do a professional logo for them, duh. And the op didn't demand anything as you made out, he simply asked. It's you knob-heads that started attacking him that are doing all the demanding, looking for cash or bottles of whiskey. :rolleyes:

If someone is interested in doing it, that's their choice, and they or the op don't need you morons spoiling his thread cos you have a chip on your shoulder about not being able to get work. That's what it seems like to me anyway as I can't imagine anyone who is up to their ears doing design work would be bothered attacking so vehemently someone who comes on a forum looking for a logo for a garage band.

Baggio...

mountain wrote: »

thats a fair point, in the past i have printed jobs for people foc, and when the odd one comes back with a bottle of wine or whiskey (it really has happened) it makes it worth while, the warm feeling lasts all day.

Very true... I recently drew a bogrhan for someone (they were offering night classes). They were a work colleague who I kinda' knew. Now, in fairness they offered to pay me right off the bat, and I said no don't worry about it. But they still insisted on buying me a bottle of whiskey. I thought that was cool - I felt that my work was appreciated... it's not always about money. Again, it's just the principal of the thing.

Baggio...

Pub07 wrote: »

He's not looking for one of you knob-heads to do it, he's looking for an amateur with an interest in design.

Careful now... that sound like an "ad hominem" attack. Getting personal eh?


Damn! those greedy designers are still asking for cash... Time is money professional or not.

Call me greedy, I don't care... Work = Cash (just like everywhere else in the world - billions of people can't be wrong).

Hank_Scorpio wrote: »

I do be on other forums and discussing prices or requesting free/spec work is strictly forbidden. And they have classified sections for actual work where payment is arranged by the two parties.

There's a legal side to this too. Not just designers with a stuck up nose.

Note those words Pub07. "strictly forbidden".

JulesInKy

I can't see what the issue is. I've worked in the design/printing business for over 20 years now. At my own discretion and choice I sometimes do work for free - not necessarily for charity. It might be a project that takes my interest, it might be something I've not had a go at before (the reality of day to day "ordinary" work for plumbers, nightclubs and beauticians can get quite boring), or it might just be that I'm in a giving mood. It also gives me a chance to express myself more freely creatively as the clients are somewhat flexible when they're getting it for nothing.

The designers that say those of us that do the odd job for free are undermining the value of their work are being a tad over dramatic. None of the unpaid work I've done has ever impacted on my income - in fact it's usually the opposite, the client that has had the freebie will usually come back for more paid work.

A little goodwill goes a long way.

Hank_Scorpio

This thread is out of control.

Baggio...

JulesInKy wrote: »

in fact it's usually the opposite, the client that has had the freebie will usually come back for more paid work. A little goodwill goes a long way.

I personally don't agree with your hypotheses there. I get jobs form people who like my work, or who get referred from previous clients. I've never been given more work for any of the free stuff that I ever did, when I was much younger and pretty naive. That's just form my own personal experience anyway (15 years in the industry). Also, if you give you work out for free - people will never really appreciate its value - and that's the same with most industries.

If you provide a good professional service, and charge a fair rate you'll always get the same clients coming back, time and time again.

JulesInKy wrote: »

The designers that say those of us that do the odd job for free are undermining the value of their work are being a tad over dramatic.

Of course the industry is not going to implode if people do a few jobs for free. But what does happen (as one previous poster alluded to), with this particular forum anyway, is that we are seen as a "soft touch". Word spreads, and then you've got more and more freeloaders asking for things for nout. Which, and correct me if I'm wrong here, shouldn't be happing on the design thread at all. If memory serves correctly people were not supposed to ask, or expect the guys here to give out freebies.

In fact it might be good to get a sticky up there...

JulesInKy wrote: »

A little goodwill goes a long way.

It's certainly does, but in the right context.

Now what does go a long way is helping your clients out after the job is done and dusted. I've often get asked for "tweaks" and I do these for free (as long as they don't take the piss). This keeps me on a really good footing with people, and they feel like they are getting value for money. It's just good business to provide decent aftercare for your clients.

ztoical

Hank_Scorpio wrote: »

This thread is out of control.

+ 1 seriously - where are the forum mods? surely there needs to be some set structure for people asking for freebies in the forum charter. they have them for asking for feedback on work.

ztoical

Pub07 wrote: »

Jesus what is so hard for you to understand??? Seriously, do you not get it?? The point is he didn't come in here, as some of you are making out, expecting or demanding someone make a simple logo for him, HE HASKED would anyone like to do it. Asked as in not forcing anybody to do anything. He's entitled to ask, and people are entitled to say yes or no if they want. Why does anyone need you guys coming in and attacking the op? To reiterate, HE ASKED NOT EXPECTED OR DEMANDED someone help him.

I made no comment about the OP asking for free work until after he made the comment about the work not being that hard. People are welcome to ask for free work and people are welcome to offer to do it for free but it is their choice but don't put down the talent of those people professional or amateur, you've asking for their help and then insulted them.

Pub07 wrote: »

He's not looking for one of you knob-heads to do it, he's looking for an amateur with an interest in design. So you can lay off all the 'why should we in the design industry devalue our industry or work for free' or 'I don't see why I should spend half of my day working for free when I have a other paid work to do that is worth €150 for half a day' nonsense. HE IS NOT LOOKING FOR OR EXPECTING professional designers like yourselves to do a professional job for him, he's looking for a hobbyist to knock out a quick logo that will very likely not be a patch on what he could get done if he went the professional route.

In the first post the OP never said he wanted a hobbyist, it was left open to all which included those posting on the forum who are professionals. The OP works in music, in his very first post he said he didn't think he was going to make any money off, that implies that he is going to try but he thinks chances are it won't make any but there is that chance that it could. That is a big legal issue road your going down there. Say someone on here does do a logo for free then next year you see it everywhere if the OP made a big break with his music...where does the designer stand then? You can say o that will never happen but pretty much every designer on here can tell you ten times that has happened to them or someone close. This might a good read for some people on here, it's written for comics freelancers but applies to all areas of the creative arts.

Pub07 wrote: »

Eh, I'm not talking about just looking for advice. I was talking about pro web developers helping out less experienced people by fixing their sites for free, as in getting the admin log in details and going in and working on the code of the site.

Going in and fixing some code is not the same as designing and building a site from nothing.

ztoical

Right I've PM'd the mods to ask them to either lock the post or keep an eye on it as we're honestly going no where and it's one step a way from personal name calling, which I know no one wants. Rather then keeping going in circles why not start a thread to discuss the ins and outs, pros and cons and legal aspects of doing free design work in a new thread?

Baggio...

ztoical wrote: »

In the first post the OP never said he wanted a hobbyist, it was left open to all which included those posting on the forum who are professionals.

Damn straight.... I'm sure he'd have been very happy to take a free logo off a professional.

And then began to winge just because someone asked if it was a paying job.

ztoical wrote: »

Right I've PM'd the mods to ask them to either lock the post or keep an eye on it as we're honestly going no where and it's one step a way from personal name calling, which I know no one wants. Rather then keeping going in circles why not start a thread to discuss the ins and outs, pros and cons and legal aspects of doing free design work in a new thread?

+ 1

Be good to get a set of guidelines nailed down in order to stop these shenanigans (maybe a sticky as I said earlier).

Hank_Scorpio

I PM'd the OP and offered to do a logo.

It's just ridiculous that someone asks for something and this happens.

We do need rules that's why things get out of hand like this.


Hope the OP gets my PM.

ztoical

Hank_Scorpio wrote: »

We do need rules that's why things get out of hand like this.

Yes, I think everything has been twisted somewhat in this thread and it's coming out as an attack or something. I've done my fair share of free jobs, I'm sure everyone one on here has done there share of them as well, this is not a case of greed as is being implied but it's not a clear cut thing as people might think, as you mentioned Hank there are legal issues people aren't aware of and other issues. Lets see what the mods say about up dating the charter or a stickie on topic.

LoLth

Right. I'm closing this thread and I'll have a chat with the forum mods aout how to handle posts like this in future.

However:

The OP asked a simple question of a community. when asked how much, he replied, well as a favour. as soon as there was no mention of renumeration, the tone of the replies turned south. If i were a new user I would be very put off by the attitude displayed by some of the posters in this thread.

I work in IT. I fix machines for a living. I fix the machines of my extended family for free. I am asked advice and I give it, to taxi drivers, friends of friends, people I meet in the pub etc. everyone goes, "oh you work in IT. My computer......" I dont expect anything for it (unless its a large cost outlay for me - motherboard fried, buy a new one and I'll install it for you, this would be a good one to get and its cheap) but when I do get a thank you or even a gift, its nice.

The guy asked for a favour. who knows, maybe he has influential friends (he recorded for bands etc maybe they'll want some design work in the future nad he'll recommend you while pointing to the logo you did for his site, or maybe having a logo on public display will get it noticed and lead to an inquiry, perhaps even a link on the page to say "logo by X".

In all honesty, I am unsure which saddens me more, the almost mercenary "how much" attitude or the absolute incredulity that someone might actually ASK you to do something for the hell of it and not expect a reward.

In future. if you dont want to help a poster, DONT REPLY TO THE POST. With no replies, he'll get the message and go somewhere else. all you've managed to do here is behave like spoiled children with a healthy dose of primadonna thrown in for good measure.

thread closed.