Boards.ie World XI - Centre Backs

Morzadec

Okay we're voting on the 2 centre backs of the team now.

Before anyone starts saying 'lol can't believe you put him in the poll', I'm putting in a lot of players because there is a chance that some people may rate a player that most think shouldn't be in contention. So again, I've probably put in players that have no hope of winning and shouldn't be considered for the honour of world's best centre-back, but its a better option than having to make judgement calls on who to stick in and then someone going 'wtf where's Kolo Touré?!'.

Voting will go on for 3 days, same as usual.

Right-back voting closes tomorrow afternoon.

Iker Casillas became the first member of the team, beating the challenge of Buffon for the Goalkeeper spot.

Also, the poll takes a little while to come up after the thread starts so no need to point out that I forgot the poll, it'll be on the way shortly.

JPA

You going to have the 2 top as the winners or 2 separate polls?

Morzadec

JPA wrote: »

You going to have the 2 top as the winners or 2 separate polls?

yeah sorry, it's going to be the two with the highest votes that get in.

Because of this I've allowed for multiple voting (i.e. you can vote for more than one player). I was hoping that I could restrict this to just 2 votes but that doesn't seem to be the case.

So just pick the 2 you would like to see in the team and no more. No real way of stopping people from voting for 3,4 or 5 from what I can tell, but there's only 2 spots to be filled so it makes sense to just vote for 2

Mr Maroon

Vidic agus Chiellini.

Chiellini hasn't a hope of getting too many more votes though.:rolleyes:

Eire-Dearg

I voted for Chiellini, let's hope more do too.

And Carragher

titan18

Mr Maroon wrote: »

Vidic agus Chiellini.

Chiellini hasn't a hope of getting too many more votes though.:rolleyes:

Voted the same way, but I doubt Chiellini is getting in here.

SlickRic

Mr Maroon wrote: »

Vidic agus Chiellini.

Chiellini hasn't a hope of getting too many more votes though.:rolleyes:

chiellini and ferdinand.

i used to take the p*ss out of ferdinand, especially for the price tag, but he's matured into one of the absolute premier all-round defenders.

Dickerty

As sick as it makes me as a Pool fan, I went for Ferdinand and Vidic. I just think they are the best around, unfortunately...

eddiehead

titan18 wrote: »

Voted the same way, but I doubt Chiellini is getting in here.

I count 5 votes already (inc. myself), I'd say he's looking good.

Nalz

Vidic and Nesta

Paparazzo

Mr Maroon wrote: »

Vidic agus Chiellini.

Chiellini hasn't a hope of getting too many more votes though.:rolleyes:

I went for those 2 aswell!

Mr Maroon

Nesta has barely even played in the last couple of years.

JPA

I think posts should be disabled in these polls to stop influencing voters.

~Rebel~

Carvalho and Vidic for me.

Carvalho has suffered a little with injuries of late, but when fit, just unreal.

Would be a great partnership too i think.

Bubs101

Vidic and Chiellini as well. Looks like it's him and A.N. other which is nice to see, might mean that Maicon had a chance

Morzadec

JPA wrote: »

I think posts should be disabled in these polls to stop influencing voters.

yeah i see what you're saying, but then again I think debate should be encouraged. Like if you have a good argument to put across as to why to vote for a player/why not to vote for a player then I say put it across, and if you can argue it well and persuade someone then why not.

e.g. some people may vote for Nesta based on the fact he was widely considered the best CB in the world for a number of years. Or Cannavaro based on his performances in the 06 WC. If someone wants to point out that these 2 players are perhaps not at the top of their game anymore, and therefore not worthy of a vote then I think that's fair enough

ciaran76

~Rebel~ wrote: »

Carvalho and Vidic for me.

Carvalho has suffered a little with injuries of late, but when fit, just unreal.

Would be a great partnership too i think.

We must be thinking on the same wavelenght!

Smegball

Vidic Ferdinand for me, maybe I'm just biased though

PHB

Carvalho and Ferdinand

dodgey69

seriously lads, only 2 winners here. Vidic and Terry. comfortably

yerayeah

dodgey69 wrote: »

seriously lads, only 2 winners here. Vidic and Terry. comfortably

Where's the pace there though?;)

curry-muff

Its gota be vidic and ferdinand sorry to say, chellini would be a close 3rd but those two are undoubtedly the best about at the minute

postalservice

What are all of your opinions on Lucio?

He has the strength, speed, passion and is extremely good on the ball imo

Pepe LeFrits

Er... where's Gallas?

Smegball

Pepe LeFrits wrote: »

Er... where's Gallas?

Having a good aul strop for being omitted from this list.

Morzadec

Pepe LeFrits wrote: »

Er... where's Gallas?

Thought his form was quite inconsistent this season and is perhaps past his best and that I would be ridiculed for including him to be honest. Thought having both Arsenal CB's would be a stretch after the relative failure of Touré/Gallas partnership this season, and I rate Touré as a better defender. Apologies if you wanted to vote for him, its hard to know where to draw the line and when to stop including players. Like many would rate Skrtel, Agger, Lescott, Jagielka as better than Gallas.

Mr Maroon

postalservice wrote: »

What are all of your opinions on Lucio?

He has the strength, speed, passion and is extremely good on the ball imo

He tends to look quite good when playing for Brazil but he can be a disaster sometimes when playing for Bayern.

Pepe LeFrits

Morzadec wrote: »

Thought his form was quite inconsistent this season and is perhaps past his best and that I would be ridiculed for including him to be honest. Thought having both Arsenal CB's would be a stretch after the relative failure of Touré/Gallas partnership this season, and I rate Touré as a better defender. Apologies if you wanted to vote for him, its hard to know where to draw the line and when to stop including players. Like many would rate Skrtel, Agger, Lescott, Jagielka as better than Gallas.

Gallas is considerably better than Touré. He's been excellent since he lost the armband. It is Touré who looks past his best; he was cack for most of the season and only found some form towards the end of the season. Hence Wenger almost letting Touré go to City in January. Baffing to have him over Gallas tbh.

jesus_thats_gre

Pepe LeFrits wrote: »

Gallas is considerably better than Touré. He's been excellent since he lost the armband. It is Touré who looks past his best; he was cack for most of the season and only found some form towards the end of the season. Hence Wenger almost letting Touré go to City in January. Baffing to have him over Gallas tbh.

Neither were good enough last season to justify inclusion and haven't got a hope in hell of winning it. As such, while you are right, it is really pointless arguing for eithers inclusion.

Johnny Utah

Morzadec wrote: »

yeah i see what you're saying, but then again I think debate should be encouraged. Like if you have a good argument to put across as to why to vote for a player/why not to vote for a player then I say put it across, and if you can argue it well and persuade someone then why not.

e.g. some people may vote for Nesta based on the fact he was widely considered the best CB in the world for a number of years. Or Cannavaro based on his performances in the 06 WC. If someone wants to point out that these 2 players are perhaps not at the top of their game anymore, and therefore not worthy of a vote then I think that's fair enough

We need to clarify why were picking this team. If were choosing players based on how good they were over their entire careers, then someone like Nesta would be up there with the best. However, if were picking on current form (ie. the season just gone), then some of the nominations are very strange to say the least?

Morzadec

Johnny Utah wrote: »

We need to clarify why were picking this team. If were choosing players based on how good they were over their entire careers, then someone like Nesta would be up there with the best. However, if were picking on current form (ie. the season just gone), then some of the nominations are very strange to say the least?

I would classify it as who would you like to bring into a team next season. You're voting on Nesta's current ability, not his ability in 2003-2007. That's not to say you can't vote for him and argue that his class is permanent but has just lost a bit of form/been unlucky with injuries, and is hence still amongst the world's best. So while form is important, I won't be voting for many players who have only had one very good season. So a mixture of form and overall class, but if you think someone has lost it, don't vote for them based on their past ability. Its how good you think they are now (this may deviate from how well they've been playing last season).

So it's voting on current ability, of which last season's form obviously plays a big part, but is not the only criteria on which you should vote.

Hope that makes sense.

Morzadec

Pepe LeFrits wrote: »

Gallas is considerably better than Touré. He's been excellent since he lost the armband. It is Touré who looks past his best; he was cack for most of the season and only found some form towards the end of the season. Hence Wenger almost letting Touré go to City in January. Baffing to have him over Gallas tbh.

Fair enough you probably watch more Arsenal than me, but I've always rated Touré as a class player and better than Gallas. I know a couple of Arsenal fans who would think the same.

Anyway as has been pointed out neither has a real chance of getting in so its no disaster that Gallas isn't in, but my apologies if you wanted to vote for him. But you probably would've been only one of a couple who would vote for him.

I've tried to offer as much choice as possible but I have to draw the line somewhere, otherwise we'll end up with 40+ nominees which would be a bit ridiculous.

Pepe LeFrits

Morzadec wrote: »

Fair enough you probably watch more Arsenal than me, but I've always rated Touré as a class player and better than Gallas. I know a couple of Arsenal fans who would think the same.

Anyway as has been pointed out neither has a real chance of getting in so its no disaster that Gallas isn't in, but my apologies if you wanted to vote for him. But you probably would've been only one of a couple who would vote for him.

I've tried to offer as much choice as possible but I have to draw the line somewhere, otherwise we'll end up with 40+ nominees which would be a bit ridiculous.

I wouldn't vote for Gallas and I can't imagine many would either but that's my gripe with the options there - a lot of those players will get few if any votes themselves and don't warrant inclusion. Arsenal's defence gets derided a lot but you've got guys there who've done shag all and who play in teams that have conceded 50, 60 goals in their league campaign. They won't get any votes and it looks to me like they're just included for diplomacy.

Morzadec

Pepe LeFrits wrote: »

I wouldn't vote for Gallas and I can't imagine many would either but that's my gripe with the options there - a lot of those players will get few if any votes themselves and don't warrant inclusion. Arsenal's defence gets derided a lot but you've got guys there who've done shag all and who play in teams that have conceded 50, 60 goals in their league campaign. They won't get any votes and it looks to me like they're just included for diplomacy.

So why are you asking where Gallas is if you don't want to vote for him?

Bolded part - Exactly, you nailed it. Read the OP again I've explained why I've put some of these players in. There are very few now with 0 votes, so some people out there rate them and should be entitled to express their opinion, even if this opinion deviates from the norm and even if these players have no chance of winning.

If I limit it to say 6 nominations per position, then I have to start making judgement calls that may be unpopular and leave out a player that many would have voted for. E.g. (without giving too much away) Carvalho has amassed a decent amount of votes, but I probably wouldn't have put him in if I was to limit it to 6 or maybe even 10 defenders. ditto O'Shea for the Right-Back slot. If I have to start making judgment calls and leaving out players like Carvalho and O'Shea, people are gonna be a lot more annoyed than having a few extra non-contenders. It's impossible for me to know how people are going to vote. I have a rough idea but it's a safer option to throw the outsiders in than leave them out and have people complaining that they're not in.

At the same time I have to draw a line somewhere and I can't include all these outsiders (e.g. Gallas, Agger, Skrtel, Milito). But its better that I draw this line further out and make judgement calls on Gallas/Touré than shorten the list and have to decide between Carvalho/Cannavaro.

Better to have people complaining about players not being nominated that they wouldn't have even voted for than people (rightly) complaining about not being able to vote for someone they think is the best Centre-Back in the world.

Not everyones going to 100% happy with the nominations but there's no way of pleasing every single person, so I'll just do my best and make the best judgement calls I can make.

Only thing so far that I will accept complaint over is not including Srna in the Right-Back poll. He should definitly have been in, I just plain forgot about him.

Pepe LeFrits

Morzadec wrote: »

So why are you asking where Gallas is if you don't want to vote for him?

Because while I wouldn't put him in the top 2 in the world he warrants recognition above some of the guys in the poll.

Bolded part - Exactly, you nailed it. Read the OP again I've explained why I've put some of these players in. There are very few now with 0 votes, so some people out there rate them and should be entitled to express their opinion, even if this opinion deviates from the norm and even if these players have no chance of winning.

Well, I can't see the votes so I can't see who has voted for what but I'd imagine there will be a couple there with a neglible number. I mean if the purpose is to determine the boards XI I don't see the point of putting in a player who'll only get one or two votes. It's basically just a spoiler - if they weren't there the person voting could actually be helping decide who gets into the XI.

If I limit it to say 6 nominations per position, then I have to start making judgement calls that may be unpopular and leave out a player that many would have voted for.

Well, 18 seems excessive to me, but maybe I'm wrong and the voting will be spread very evenly...

Morzadec

Pepe LeFrits wrote: »

Because while I wouldn't put him in the top 2 in the world he warrants recognition above some of the guys in the poll.

Well, I can't see the votes so I can't see who has voted for what but I'd imagine there will be a couple there with a neglible number. I mean if the purpose is to determine the boards XI I don't see the point of putting in a player who'll only get one or two votes. It's basically just a spoiler - if they weren't there the person voting could actually be helping decide who gets into the XI.

Well, 18 seems excessive to me, but maybe I'm wrong and the voting will be spread very evenly...

I get what you're saying here with the negligible votes. If I could do Proportional Representation I would! You're right the polls are not very spread out and have 2 or 3 or 4 clear leaders.

But I still stick to my point. O'Shea is not a player I rate very highly. I would have had to have left him out if I limited the right back spot to 5 spots. O'Shea is currently beating a lot of the competition in the Right-Back poll. Similar to Carvalho in this poll who I probably would've left out if I had limited it to 8 players say. And for an example in which you can actually see the votes, look at the GK poll and the amount of votes Given got. He would not have been in my top 6, or even top 8, but ended up way clear in 4th.

There'll be a lot more complaints if I limited the nominees. The polls would be less democratic and would be based more on my opinion then the opinion of posters which is not what I want.

I am not saying my system is flawless. The negligible votes point is valid in many ways. but I reckon this is the best way of doing it. And in fact the leading players in these polls are so far ahead that these negligible votes are actually not impacting at all

Morzadec

Also the reason there are 18 here is because 2 spots are being decided on. For one plaer spots there'll be no more than 10.

carlop

To be fair, the OP has tried to do this as best as possible, and I know for a fact that he has included some players in the list that he doesn't rate or that he may have not seen play an awful lot. I highly doubt that he has forgotten anyone who would have been in with a chance of winning.

Ok, maybe you feel that one of the players listed should have been left out for someone else, but this is your opinion, and its not as if the OP can do a poll to decide who should be in this poll.

Warper

Where is O'Shea?????? - kidding

Seriously Vidic has to be in anyways. Carvalho couldnt get his game at Chelsea last season even when fit and is 31 now. Terry is too slow and Ferdinand was never in the top 2 defenders in the world. So ya Vidic and Cheillini though Cannavaro in his day was the best of this lot.

ShoulderChip

Carvalho and Cordoba

helimachoptor

~Rebel~ wrote: »

Carvalho and Vidic for me.

Carvalho has suffered a little with injuries of late, but when fit, just unreal.

Would be a great partnership too i think.

My pick too, ok Carvalho is getting on a bit but he is still pretty good.
I think while both in their primes it would have been an immense partnerships.

whatawaster

helimachoptor wrote: »

My pick too, ok Carvalho is getting on a bit but he is still pretty good.
I think while both in their primes it would have been an immense partnerships.

Skrtel >>> Carragher, so where the hell is he?

Anyway, i'll be voting for Chiellini and Vidic

Pro. F

I voted for Vidic and Ferdinand. I rate Carvalho over Ferdinand in general but i have more confidence in Ferdinand being at full strength for the season coming. But that is just a gut feeling so it was a tough call.

I think the Serie A players have a good chance of getting in the team despite what people are saying on here. My reason for thinking that is because i believe plenty of people will vote for players based on what they hear about a player rather than what they have seen.

Ps. I really hope Chiellini doesn't get in - he's over rated at the moment imo.

Morzadec

whatawaster wrote: »

Skrtel >>> Carragher, so where the hell is he?

Anyway, i'll be voting for Chiellini and Vidic

I'm actually a Liverpool fan and I agree that Carra may have slightly lost it and that Skrtel is a better player. That said, I put in Carra instead because he has been playing at a top team for a good few seasons, and a couple of years ago it wouldn't be ludicrous to suggest he was in the top 5 CB's in Europe.

Kinda feel Skrtel has a little more to prove to get himself in as he's only had one full good season. And similar to the Galls/Touré situation, I kinda felt that more than one Liverpool defender would be excessive.

I know a few would probably rate Agger higher than both, but the fact he's not getting in the starting XI rules him out as well

carlop

Based on the comments in this thread, it looks like Vidic and Chiellini are winning, which I personally believe would be quite a poor partnership, as neither of them is particularly quick and both can be prone to moments of clumsiness.

I would say with Vidic and Chiellini its a case of one or the other, but I really wouldn't want to have them together.

Bobalicious93

Kaladze's a left-back isn't he? Not that it matters....

Seaneh

I voted for nesta, even at 33, even thought he'll mioss half of every season from now on, he is, when fit, the best centre back I've seen since Berasi, the way he reads the game, the way he makes timing tackles look easy and never, EVER looks out of his comfort zone or over awed and his ability to be exactly where he needs to be makes him, for me, the best centre back of the last 10 years, Canna looked good for Italy for a long time because Nesta hide his flaws.

Ah balls, I only voted for one!

My second choice would probably be Mexes or Vidic, there are some terrible, terrible choices on thjat list (mexes not even mentioned while Garay/Zapata/Canavarro/Juan/Carragher/Cordoba/Puyol are!

Seaneh

Bobalicious93 wrote: »

Kaladze's a left-back isn't he? Not that it matters....

Not for the last 5 years he isn't.

It is where he started but he's not a left back, much like Sergio Ramos is not a right back despite wher he is playing for spain and Real ATM.

He is nowhere the best either, even with the current squad he will be Milans 3rd chouce behind Nesta and Thaigo silva, he might even be behind Bonera.

Super-Rush

Nesta and Lucio for me.

Lucio has been consistently brilliant forever. Nesta because he is the best in the world.

Unearthly

Ferdinand Vidic for me

keane2097

I can't wait for the next thread where we can once again be told how retarded we are for watching the premiership by a couple of people who will once again try to cajole us into voting for their Serie A man-crushes.

"Nobody will agree with me cos nobody is a real expert like me but anyone who doesn't vote for my boyfriend is an idiot"

Lads ye know who ye are and after the first two spots went to non-premiership players I'd like to ask ye to give us all two things:

1. A little bit of credit for having a little bit of knowledge about the game

2. A fcuking break

I really should have said that after the first post in the first thread - I must be chilling out in my old age...