A good way to react to a christian protestor at Pride

Boston

Arathorn wrote: »

This in a way legitimises the more extreme reactions to gay people.

Thats a stretch. Anyone truly Christian couldn't support violence.

Tricity Bendix

Arathorn wrote: »

I disagree while not at the same level as white supremicists this message "repent before its too late" sends the message that being gay is sinful and will result in going to hell. This in a way legitimises the more extreme reactions to gay people. In saying that I respect that he is peacefully protesting, and I also genuinely believe he and his opinions are a dieing breed.

His was the most extreme reaction to Pride I could find. For which I think we should be thankful.

Arathorn

Boston wrote: »

Thats a stretch. Anyone truly Christian couldn't support violence.

True but there are a lot of "casual" Christians out there, or those who pick and choose the bits they do and don't like.

Otaku Girl

prinz wrote: »

I thought the point of the pride parade was to get people to stop referring to the gay community as "people like you" no?

btw my definition of sheer ignorance... never mind.

I've never been to gay pride nor will. I'm a transexual and gay pride is for gay men and to a lesser extent lesbians. It should be called LGBT pride not gay pride anyway.But then again there's no T in this LGB forum.As far as I see the T in LGBT stands for transvestite rather than transexual now anyway.

But we, transexuals, are severly marginalised in both the wider community and the LGBT community.As I said there's no T in this forum or even a transexual/transgender sub forum. And yeah religion is a load of bollocks and dangerous bollocks at that...

Otaku Girl

King of Kings wrote: »

OP - You're gay...well done.



says you - you are as bad as that protester. actually worse cos you referred to his beliefs as "bollocks" which is insulting. he just disagrees with yours.

No.If I said there was a dragon walking down O' Connell street would you believe me without evidence?Thought not. Same with religion.Until I'm presented with evidence to back up these insane claims I'll keep on calling it a load of old bollocks. Damn I love freedom of speech.:P

philologos

Otaku Girl wrote: »

But we, transexuals, are severly marginalised in both the wider community and the LGBT community.As I said there's no T in this forum or even a transexual/transgender sub forum. And yeah religion is a load of bollocks and dangerous bollocks at that...

So let me get you straight, you want your gender change to be recognised in society. Then you go on and promote stereotypes and generalisations about people who wish to follow Christianity in this country? The "them and us" mentality is entirely present.

I'm utterly confused.

My line: You should have every right to vocalise your opinion, and that man should have every right to vocalise his. Especially when there is absolutely no hatred involved. Christians promote their point of view generally out of care and love for others. They want other people to see the love of God as they have, and they want others to walk as God has led them to. You have the option at the end of the day to accept or reject this.

Edit:

Otaku Girl wrote: »

No.If I said there was a dragon walking down O' Connell street would you believe me without evidence?Thought not. Same with religion.Until I'm presented with evidence to back up these insane claims I'll keep on calling it a load of old bollocks. Damn I love freedom of speech.

Christians don't present their views without evidence. Many argue their position based on evidence by indication. What suggests that there is a God, and there is a huge body of literature that one can consult basically from the Church Fathers to the present.

By the by, you don't love freedom of speech. You don't respect the freedoms of that man to speak his views.

Otaku Girl

Jakkass wrote: »

So let me get you straight, you want your gender change to be recognised in society. Then you go on and promote stereotypes and generalisations about people who wish to follow Christianity in this country? The "them and us" mentality is entirely present.

I'm utterly confused.

I did'nt create a stereotype of christians they create their own stereotypes.Read Leviticus some time.

My line: You should have every right to vocalise your opinion, and that man should have every right to vocalise his. Especially when there is absolutely no hatred involved. Christians promote their point of view generally out of care and love for others. They want other people to see the love of God as they have, and they want others to walk as God has led them to. You have the option at the end of the day to accept or reject this.

No.Chistians promote their intolerance and narrow world view because they're brainwashed since birth and they're afraid of Gods wrath and desire his divine rewards. Sure he has every right to express his viewpoint
and I have every right to refute.NOT ALL BELIEFS ARE EQUALLY VALID.

philologos

Otaku Girl wrote: »

So are you say transsexuals are not allowed criticise religion but it's o.k. for everyone else to?

No, I'm merely saying that from your perspective if you really understand what it is like to be marginalised you should not be attempting to marginalise people of faith should you?

Otaku Girl wrote: »

No. Chistians promote their intolerance and narrow world view because they're brainwashed since birth and they're afraid of Gods wrath and desire his divine rewards. Sure he has every right to express his viewpoint.

You probably won't listen to me as one of these so called "intolerant" Christians. Although, I find that Christians are a lot more tolerant to the gay pride parade than many of the people involved are of Christian rights to advocate their views? Interesting, no?

I disagree outright with this view actually. Some people think that it is only homosexuality that is enshrined as a sin. Not looking out for others and not leaving aside part of your wealth for charity is another, lusting is considered equivalent to adultery, lying, being angry is actually considered to be equivalent to murder in the Christian faith, cheating in measures, being drunk, slandering others, bringing false accusations against others in court, engaging in violent retaliation. There are numerous sins that are to be counted. I personally don't like the excessive attention that homosexuality, abortion and others receive.

As for brainwashing. What about people who accept Christianity through conversion? Before you claim that this is not a majority of people, it is a very very large proportion within the Christian world.

As for God's punishment. I don't fear it. Why? I have nothing to fear if I follow Jesus Christ. I aim to follow His commandments as best as I can when I am alive because I love God. That's the reason. I'm eternally thankful for what guidance He has given me in my life, and I am eternally thankful for how He opened my eyes to His truth.

However, your view is more an ad-hominem attack against the protester rather than a criticism of Christianity in general.

Otaku Girl wrote: »

and I have every right to refute.NOT ALL BELIEFS ARE EQUALLY VALID.

Nonsense, you didn't just refute though. Boston said fair play to him to get out and display his beliefs, as well... it's his right to do so. You replied as follows:

Otaku Girl wrote:

Not if it's a load of old bollocks based on Jewish mythology

As such this is criticising his right to free speech rather than his views.

mobius42

Jakkass wrote: »

Christians promote their point of view generally out of care and love for others. They want other people to see the love of God as they have, and they want others to walk as God has led them to.

I have to disagree with you here, Jakkass. This may be the case for you (and judging by your previous discussions on this forum, I'm willing to believe that) but most Christians I've met promote their view out of a sense of superiority, piety and having being brought up to believe those things. Also, isn't your statement a generalisation too?:D

Jakkass wrote:

It's a strange phenomenon that people now consider it "bigotry" when someone puts forward a view which disagrees with yours and even does so respectfully? Curious that.

Bigotry is being intolerant of people whose opinions and lifestyles differ to yours, so the protester in the picture is being a bigot. That being said, if he wants to stand there and waste his time arguing that gay people are evil, I'll vigorously defend his right to do so. Just as I would defend a gay person who wanted to stand next to him with a sign criticising Christians.

philologos

mobius42 wrote: »

I have to disagree with you here, Jakkass. This may be the case for you (and judging by your previous discussions on this forum, I'm willing to believe that) but most Christians I've met promote their view out of a sense of superiority, piety and having being brought up to believe those things. Also, isn't your statement a generalisation too?:D

Maybe a bit , but I am talking from personal experience from many of my Christian friends and people I know who are in the faith. The Biblical view is that if love does not abide in someone, God doesn't either. For God is love. Self-righteousness amongst other things can be a huge issue in peoples personal religion. I don't think there is any room for self-righteousness in Christianity, for we have all sinned and fallen short of God's glory, the difference is do you want to accept the chance to enter a new relationship with God, or do you want to leave it behind?

mobius42 wrote: »

Bigotry is being intolerant of people whose opinions and lifestyles differ to yours, so the protester in the picture is being a bigot. That being said, if he wants to stand there and waste his time arguing that gay people are evil, I'll vigorously defend his right to do so. Just as I would defend a gay person who wanted to stand next to him with a sign criticising Christians.

I disagree with you. The guy is merely disagreeing with their views and promoting another path for people to take. If you read the bottom end of his poster it says the following:

Friends turn back to Jesus and repent before it is too late.

That seems to me to be a message out of genuine compassion and concern rather than a message of hate.

He isn't arguing that gay people are evil, but rather that what they do is wrong ethically. That's mere disagreement rather than condemnation. His message is offering a new way of life rather than anything else.

As for your last bit about defending the guys right, I totally agree. Free speech for all.

Rev Hellfire

mobius42 wrote: »

I have to disagree with you here, Jakkass. This may be the case for you (and judging by your previous discussions on this forum, I'm willing to believe that) but most Christians I've met promote their view out of a sense of superiority, piety and having being brought up to believe those things. Also, isn't your statement a generalisation too?:D

Let be honest here, if we're refering to people posting on the interweb. Then by its very nature you're going to get people with extreme views. The fact that from the accounts given here that their were few religious protesters shows that to the remaining majority its simply not that big a deal to get worked up about.

Otaku Girl wrote:

I've never been to gay pride nor will. I'm a transexual and gay pride is for gay men and to a lesser extent lesbians. It should be called LGBT pride not gay pride anyway.But then again there's no T in this LGB forum.As far as I see the T in LGBT stands for transvestite rather than transexual now anyway.

I'll have to admit I find it out odd that people would assume that transsexuals etc would not be welcome at a pride march, I may be naive here but I have though it they would be par for the course at such events.

and if people want a forum there's nothing to prevent them from requesting one on the forum request forum. Who knows perhaps they'll not shoot themselves in the foot this time.

prinz

Otaku Girl wrote: »

I've never been to gay pride nor will. I'm a transexual and gay pride is for gay men and to a lesser extent lesbians. It should be called LGBT pride not gay pride anyway.But then again there's no T in this LGB forum.As far as I see the T in LGBT stands for transvestite rather than transexual now anyway.

But we, transexuals, are severly marginalised in both the wider community and the LGBT community.As I said there's no T in this forum or even a transexual/transgender sub forum. And yeah religion is a load of bollocks and dangerous bollocks at that...

AFAIK it's official title is not Gay Pride for a start. So you're welcome to join in if you so wish.

Have you ever looked on this site for a Heterosexual Forum? :rolleyes:

prinz

Otaku Girl wrote: »

Damn I love freedom of speech.:P

As Jakkass pointed out, no you don't. You love your own freedom, but you are having trouble loving the freedom of others to say/believe what they please. You cannot cherry pick the freedoms which suit you at the time.

rainbow kirby

prinz wrote: »

AFAIK it's official title is not Gay Pride for a start. So you're welcome to join in if you so wish.

Dublin Pride, or Dublin LGBTQ Pride - from what the programme on my desk says. So the T is included.

prinz wrote: »

Have you ever looked on this site for a Heterosexual Forum?

That would be every other forum on the site

philologos

rainbow kirby wrote: »

That would be every other forum on the site

Every other forum is universal irrespective of sexual orientation. At least that's what I thought

prinz

rainbow kirby wrote: »

Dublin Pride, or Dublin LGBTQ Pride - from what the programme on my desk says. So the T is included.

+1, I thought as much. Funny how a straight Christian knew that. Must be because we're so bigoted and full of bollocks.

rainbow kirby wrote: »

That would be every other forum on the site

Right so, I'm off to purge every other forum.*grabs pitchfork and holy water*

Boston

Otaku Girl wrote: »

I did'nt create a stereotype of christians they create their own stereotypes.Read Leviticus some time.

Go to the boiler-house some time, see how many stereotypes are on display.

philologos

Otaku Girl wrote: »

I did'nt create a stereotype of christians they create their own stereotypes.Read Leviticus some time.

It appears that you have edited your previous post:

I've read Leviticus several times. Leviticus is a book of the Jewish Torah. It was originally a Jewish book before it was ever used in the Christian faith.

In Christianity it is believed that all who have sinned are truly deserving of death because "the wages of sin is death". However, because of Christ's mercy, we are also expected to show mercy. Hence why the death penalty is incompatible with the Christian faith. It's a key difference between Christianity and Judaism / Islam.

If one is baptized it is believed that one has died to sin, and risen to new life (as Christ did). Hence the "wages of sin is death" is fulfilled through ones baptism. We have a new chance to put ourselves right with God.

hot2def

Personally, I avoid Pride like the plague. however, were I there, I'd have opted for pointing and laughing at the loner who believes in floating white men in the sky.

prinz

hot2def wrote: »

Personally, I avoid Pride like the plague. however, were I there, I'd have opted for pointing and laughing at the loner who believes in floating white men in the sky.

Just as you'd be happy with people laughing and pointing at two men holding hands no doubt :rolleyes: How accepting and inclusive we all are.

hot2def

prinz wrote: »

Just as you'd be happy with people laughing and pointing at two men holding hands no doubt :rolleyes: How accepting and inclusive we all are.

So, its ok for this jerk to hold up signs to strangers informing them that in his opinion, they will suffer for ever in hell, but I cannot laugh at him? screw that. He should be glad I amn't following him around with a big cardboard sign in public saying "friend, do your self a favour and cop on, fairytales are for children."

philologos

hot2def wrote: »

Personally, I avoid Pride like the plague. however, were I there, I'd have opted for pointing and laughing at the loner who believes in floating white men in the sky.

No Jew or Christian believes in this. You should know what you are speaking of before you criticise the faith of other people.

hot2def wrote: »

So, its ok for this jerk to hold up signs to strangers informing them that in his opinion, they will suffer for ever in hell, but I cannot laugh at him? screw that. He should be glad I amn't following him around with a big cardboard sign in public saying "friend, do your self a favour and cop on, fairytales are for children."

His poster didn't even say that people were going to suffer forever in Hell. His poster actually is encouraging people to repent because he cares about them before it is too late! That's a compassionate sign.

Again, you'd have to actually substantiate that Christianity is a fairytale, showing that it isn't based in reality at all. Which is false, because many Biblical claims are historically sound.

prinz

hot2def wrote: »

So, its ok for this jerk to hold up signs to strangers informing them that in his opinion, they will suffer for ever in hell, but I cannot laugh at him? screw that. He should be glad I amn't following him around with a big cardboard sign in public saying "friend, do your self a favour and cop on, fairytales are for children."

No you're perfectly entitled to. Just as he is, or anyone else is allowed to point and laugh at the participants or anyone else for that matter and say they're going to burn in hell.

Boston

hot2def wrote: »

So, its ok for this jerk to hold up signs to strangers informing them that in his opinion, they will suffer for ever in hell, but I cannot laugh at him? screw that. He should be glad I amn't following him around with a big cardboard sign in public saying "friend, do your self a favour and cop on, fairytales are for children."

What do you care about his personal beliefs? The reason you shouldn't follow him around with a sign is because you should be aiming for acceptance, not just mere tolerance of other people.

Nerin

Theres a difference between taking the highground and sinking to below someones level. This thread as a ridiculous amount of childish comments in it.

Big whoOp,a guy with a sign. It could have been much bloody worse. Theres plenty of christians that have decided for themselves that homosexuality is fine in a live and let live sense,just as there are the christians that think its the work of the "divil".

Sweeping generalisations are silly,and lessen any of ye're points,and thats criticism coming from a person who is totally for "gay rights" and disagrees with alot of abrahamic religious stances and beliefs.

Seriously,some people need to grow up.

Otaku Girl

Boston wrote: »

Go to the boiler-house some time, see how many stereotypes are on display.

I'm transsexual not a gay male.I'd fit in there as much as I'd in an evangelical super church.

Otaku Girl

Boston wrote: »

What do you care about his personal beliefs? The reason you shouldn't follow him around with a sign is because you should be aiming for acceptance, not just mere tolerance of other people.

Because they influence society and thus influence governmental policy.Hence it affects me. Also these,though perhaps not the individual in question are likely to brain wash their children with transphobia and homophobia.Worse still,imagine if the kid in question had gender issues or gay inclinations and had to listen to his parents going on about how he or she will burn in hell for such inclinations. That can do some serious damage to a childs self esteem.
And all for some ancient fantasy novel with a lot of continuity errors.

Otaku Girl

Jakkass wrote: »

No Jew or Christian believes in this. You should know what you are speaking of before you criticise the faith of other people.



His poster didn't even say that people were going to suffer forever in Hell. His poster actually is encouraging people to repent because he cares about them before it is too late! That's a compassionate sign.

..........So if they don't repent before it's too late what will happen to them according to your religion?

Again, you'd have to actually substantiate that Christianity is a fairytale, showing that it isn't based in reality at all. Which is false, because many Biblical claims are historically sound.

Another logical fallacy my darling.The burden of proof is on you to provide evidence that it's not a fairy tale.There's some historically accurate claims in all religions and myths.They can't all be right.

Boston

Otaku Girl wrote: »

Because they influence society and thus influence governmental policy.Hence it affects me. Also these,though perhaps not the individual in question are likely to brain wash their children with transphobia and homophobia.Worse still,imagine if the kid in question had gender issues or gay inclinations and had to listen to his parents going on about how he or she will burn in hell for such inclinations. That can do some serious damage to a childs self esteem.
And all for some ancient fantasy novel with a lot of continuity errots.

Thats the thing about intolerance, there's always an excuse.You arguments for not tolerating Christians is that they negatively influence society and that they're bad parents. I'd hazard a guess that the only Christians you've every met are the one protesting against you.

Otaku Girl

Jakkass wrote: »

It appears that you have edited your previous post:

I've read Leviticus several times. Leviticus is a book of the Jewish Torah. It was originally a Jewish book before it was ever used in the Christian faith.

In Christianity it is believed that all who have sinned are truly deserving of death because "the wages of sin is death". However, because of Christ's mercy, we are also expected to show mercy. Hence why the death penalty is incompatible with the Christian faith. It's a key difference between Christianity and Judaism / Islam.

If one is baptized it is believed that one has died to sin, and risen to new life (as Christ did). Hence the "wages of sin is death" is fulfilled through ones baptism. We have a new chance to put ourselves right with God.

Yeah I know the difference between the old and new testament.But why does Gods personality change so much,from narcissitic bully to peace loving hippy?I'm not being sarcastic here but as a child I asked my Mother does God have dissociative identity disorder.