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Using deposit in lieu of last months rent.

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    #32
    D3PO
    Registered Users Posts: 7,879 ✭✭✭D3PO


    Tattoo Stan wrote: »
    Why didn't you give them a formal lease? That's very amateurish behaviour for someone with a tenant.

    I suggest next time you do things professionally.

    Why would you have a formal lease for rent a room ? Hardly amateurish and infact I suggest is the best way in terms of rent a room lettings.

    It keeps the tennant from having too many rights as rent a room gives them pretty much zip. Much better to have a draft set of rules and agreements than a formal lease in this situation.

    now if your renting in general thats a different story but thats not the case here


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    #33
    Tattoo Stan
    Closed Accounts Posts: 45 ✭Tattoo Stan


    D3PO wrote: »
    Why would you have a formal lease for rent a room ? Hardly amateurish and infact I suggest is the best way in terms of rent a room lettings.

    It keeps the tennant from having too many rights as rent a room gives them pretty much zip. Much better to have a draft set of rules and agreements than a formal lease in this situation.

    now if your renting in general thats a different story but thats not the case here

    Anyone entering into a financial agreement like this should prepare a lease. This is basic knowledge for renting anything out.

    Tenants have rights under the law, and as stated in a previous post the landlord should have registered their participation in the rent-a-room scheme as they have much more to lose.

    This is amateur letting at it's worst. The fact the OP doesn't even know how the deposit system works is quite shocking.

    No landlord worth their salt would ever ask such a fundamental question. Hopefully the recession has taken care of these amateurs.


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    #34
    D3PO
    Registered Users Posts: 7,879 ✭✭✭D3PO


    Tattoo Stan wrote: »
    Anyone entering into a financial agreement like this should prepare a lease. This is basic knowledge for renting anything out.

    Tenants have rights under the law, and as stated in a previous post the landlord should have registered their participation in the rent-a-room scheme as they have much more to lose.

    This is amateur letting at it's worst. The fact the OP doesn't even know how the deposit system works is quite shocking.

    tennants have rights "lodgers" DO NOT. Under rent a room you are a LODGER not a tennant.

    The fact you dont even know how rent a room works is quite shocking.

    clearly you consider your self in the category of landlords not worth their salt.


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    #35
    Tattoo Stan
    Closed Accounts Posts: 45 ✭Tattoo Stan


    D3PO wrote: »
    tennants have rights "lodgers" DO NOT. Under rent a room you are a LODGER not a tennant.

    The fact you dont even know how rent a room works is quite shocking.

    clearly you consider your self in the category of landlords not worth their salt.

    I would suggest you read up on some court cases referring to lodgers and the rent-a-room scheme before passing such comments.

    And personal remarks are not allowed under the charter of this forum.


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    #36
    D3PO
    Registered Users Posts: 7,879 ✭✭✭D3PO


    Tattoo Stan wrote: »
    I would suggest you read up on some court cases referring to lodgers and the rent-a-room scheme before passing such comments.

    And personal remarks are not allowed under the charter of this forum.

    correct so you should practice what you preach before you attack the OP. Not nice getting a taste of your own medicine is it.

    also please provide the links to court judgements in favour of the lodger in rent a room situations like this that you say exist ?


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    #37
    Tattoo Stan
    Closed Accounts Posts: 45 ✭Tattoo Stan


    D3PO wrote: »
    correct so you should practice what you preach before you attack the OP. Not nice getting a taste of your own medicine is it.

    also please provide the links to court judgements in favour of the lodger in rent a room situations like this that you say exist ?

    I refuse to spoon feed you information you already claim to know.


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    #38
    D3PO
    Registered Users Posts: 7,879 ✭✭✭D3PO


    Tattoo Stan wrote: »
    I refuse to spoon feed you information you already claim to know.

    i claim that they dont exist. so if you say they do provide the proof ?


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    #39
    subway
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,131 ✭✭✭subway


    D3PO, the OP is not taking on lodgers.
    she is renting indivudual rooms out in an investment property


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    #40
    The_Conductor
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 32,285 Mod ✭✭✭✭The_Conductor


    No. 1 Personal abuse is not tolerated. Consider yourselves lucky I am only closing this thread and not banning people.

    No. 2- Under the rent-a-room scheme (which is a Revenue scheme), you are living with the owner of the property in their habitual residence (or PPR). If they do not live there- as is not the case in the example given, it is not the rent-a-room scheme. If it is the rent-a-room scheme- you have no tenancy rights whatsoever- you are simply living there under licence- and can be asked to vacate the room at any stage whatsoever, without any notice or reason- and must comply. You have precisely zero rights. If you are renting a room- which is a vastly different proposition- while you can be asked to leave- normal notice applies. Also- you have no rights to modify the property in any manner whatsover- without the prior consent of the owner of the property (this includes putting your own lock on a bedroom door- painting a room- or any other activity).

    On that note- thread locked.


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    #41
    The_Conductor
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 32,285 Mod ✭✭✭✭The_Conductor


    Thread reopened at OPs request.
    Please keep any comments pertinent to the subject being discussed, and based on factual information. No personal comments.


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    #42
    Jo King
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 2,139 ✭✭✭Jo King


    smccarrick wrote: »
    No. 1 Personal abuse is not tolerated. Consider yourselves lucky I am only closing this thread and not banning people.

    If you are renting a room- which is a vastly different proposition- while you can be asked to leave- normal notice applies.

    Not necessarily if you are sharing facilities with others and you are not part of a collective lease agreement for the entire property. You are not covered by the PRTB and are only covered by the general law of contract.
    See these decisions.

    http://www.prtb.ie/2006Disputes/TRIBUNAL06/TR10_Report.pdf
    http://www.prtb.ie/2006Disputes/Tribunal/DOTR10_06.pdf


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    #43
    subway
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,131 ✭✭✭subway


    thats a bit mad tbh.
    im quite shocked.

    i guess that you have some legal knowledge to be aware of that kind of thing. if this type of tenancy isnt covered by the 2004 act, is it covered by any other act?
    if not then i guess its just contract law (verbal contract in place of lease) and if no terms are defined then its up to the parties to negotiate?


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    #44
    Captain Corelli
    Closed Accounts Posts: 64 ✭✭Captain Corelli


    SarahSassy wrote: »
    One replied to say she will not be paying the rent as she is worried she wont get the deposit back cos she has no lease and does not have my home address.

    She only rents a room in my houose.

    Is the crux of the issue not if Sarahsassy lives in the house or not? If she does, the other party is a lodger (and has no rights under tenant legislation).

    If Sarahsassy does not live there then other party is a tenant & protected under tenant law (i.e entitled to notice/due process).


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    #45
    Jo King
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 2,139 ✭✭✭Jo King


    Captain Corelli wrote: »
    Is the crux of the issue not if Sarahsassy lives in the house or not? If she does, the other party is a lodger (and has no rights under tenant legislation).

    If Sarahsassy does not live there then other party is a tenant & protected under tenant law (i.e entitled to notice/due process).

    No. The crux is not whether Sarahsassy lives there. The crux is whether there is a lease of a self-contained dwelling in place. If bedrooms in a house are let separately then no occupant has a lease of a self contained dwelling and is not covered by the PRTB legislation. If the entire house is let as a unit to a group the it is covered by the PRTB legislation because there is a lease of a self contained dwelling.
    Where the landlord lives in a dwelling sharing facilities with others, clearly none of the others has a lease of a self contained dwelling since they are not part of a group letting with a landlord.

    In some houses the landlord does not live there but lets bedrooms individually and not the house as a whole to a group. In in this case no individual or group has a lease of a self contained dwelling.


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    #46
    ZYX
    Registered Users Posts: 882 ✭✭✭ZYX


    SarahSassy wrote: »
    My tenants, dont have a formal lease as I was renting rooms out, have decided to get their own place. Thats fine but they want to use their deposit as the last months rent. I dont want this for obvious reasons and have told them so.

    What rights do I have to force them to pay the rent?

    Lets be honest here. The deposit is to cover for wear and tear and possibly to pay outstanding bills. Can't you see how much wear and tear there is at this stage? Also is it not possible to come to an estimate of bills outstanding at this stage?
    It makes a lot more sense to sort these things out in a friendly way than resorting to changing locks, eviction, legal action etc.


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    #47
    ZYX
    Registered Users Posts: 882 ✭✭✭ZYX


    Jo King wrote: »
    If the entire house is let as a unit to a group the it is covered by the PRTB legislation because there is a lease of a self contained dwelling.
    .

    Having read the original post again. To be honest this looks like the situation here.
    She said her "tenants" are moving out and want to get "their own place". By the sounds of this the tenants are renting together and are moving out as a group. Perhaps SarahSassy will get back on but it sounds like she is an unregistered landlord.


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    #48
    Jo King
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 2,139 ✭✭✭Jo King


    ZYX wrote: »
    Having read the original post again. To be honest this looks like the situation here.
    She said her "tenants" are moving out and want to get "their own place". By the sounds of this the tenants are renting together and are moving out as a group. Perhaps SarahSassy will get back on but it sounds like she is an unregistered landlord.

    The question is:- did they move in as a group or are they replacements of a group which moved in? It appears that she made individuals with them originally. The fact that they move out together to another place as a group will not make them such a group in the o/ps house unless they moved in together and pay their rent as a group.


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    #49
    ZYX
    Registered Users Posts: 882 ✭✭✭ZYX


    Jo King wrote: »
    The question is:- did they move in as a group or are they replacements of a group which moved in? It appears that she made individuals with them originally. The fact that they move out together to another place as a group will not make them such a group in the o/ps house unless they moved in together and pay their rent as a group.

    As I said maybe she will get back on. She did say "they want to use their deposit as last months rent" rather than deposits. It is all guess work at the moment. If they did rent as a group, I hope she gets back on before she changes the locks or she could be in trouble:D


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    #50
    Jo King
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 2,139 ✭✭✭Jo King


    ZYX wrote: »
    As I said maybe she will get back on. She did say "they want to use their deposit as last months rent" rather than deposits. It is all guess work at the moment. If they did rent as a group, I hope she gets back on before she changes the locks or she could be in trouble:D

    She did say one was refusing to pay.She seems to be accepting the situation after her solicitor gave a non committal answer.


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    #51
    bobbiw
    Closed Accounts Posts: 211 ✭✭bobbiw


    D3PO wrote: »
    you cant force them to give you the money but as it appears these are rooms in your house you have the right to tell them to leave your property with immediate effect as they dont have the same rights as tennants renting a full property or under a lease.

    so if they dont pay up tell them to pack up and move out the same day simple :)

    Dont tell her anything, tell her she has until tomorrow to pay the rent and then that is it.

    Change the locks to the house and tell her she has to pay the rent to get back in,

    And keep her deposit.


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    #52
    mad_shopaholic
    Registered Users Posts: 135 ✭✭mad_shopaholic


    I know this is not a reply but i was wondering if someone could help me as its along the same lines as the topic being discussed.

    I recently vacated a house where i was a lodger and the landlord also shared the house.
    I was never asked for a months rent in advance so when leaving i owed a months rent.
    I witheld this last months rent leaving as i had paid a months rent as a deposit but the landlord was denying i paid any deposit. I would happily have paid the rent had i been guaranteed getting my deposit back as i had settled all bills and there was no damage.
    The landlord has also denied the deposit paid of another lodger who moved in the same time as us and was there when i paid my deposit and vice versa.
    The landlord is now threatening to take us to small claims court.
    Is there any way of resolving this outside of the court I dont see why i should pay twice when the landlord obviously spent it and cant even remember.


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    #53
    The_Conductor
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 32,285 Mod ✭✭✭✭The_Conductor


    mad_shopaholic wrote: »
    I know this is not a reply but i was wondering if someone could help me as its along the same lines as the topic being discussed.

    I recently vacated a house where i was a lodger and the landlord also shared the house.
    I was never asked for a months rent in advance so when leaving i owed a months rent.
    I witheld this last months rent leaving as i had paid a months rent as a deposit but the landlord was denying i paid any deposit. I would happily have paid the rent had i been guaranteed getting my deposit back as i had settled all bills and there was no damage.
    The landlord has also denied the deposit paid of another lodger who moved in the same time as us and was there when i paid my deposit and vice versa.
    The landlord is now threatening to take us to small claims court.
    Is there any way of resolving this outside of the court I dont see why i should pay twice when the landlord obviously spent it and cant even remember.

    Did you get a receipt?
    If not- its a case of 'he said', 'she said'.
    It might be worthwhile trying to track down the other lodger who is in the same position- at least you can confirm each other's cases.


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    #54
    mad_shopaholic
    Registered Users Posts: 135 ✭✭mad_shopaholic


    Hi SMCarrick

    No i didnt get a receipt as a liscensee you dont have the same rights as a tenant with regard to receipts so you can see my predicament the landlord was paid all rent and bills in cash and he never kept any written record of what we paid we were often asked to pay the same bill twice!!

    As regards the other lodger yes i am in contact with her and also another lodger that was also there around the same time so the three of us know we paid the deposits.

    So if its a case of "he says" "she says" would it stand as an advantage in the claims court that there are 3 of us that remember each other paying?


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    #55
    MysticalSoul
    Registered Users Posts: 1,266 ✭✭✭MysticalSoul


    How did you pay the deposit? If you paid by cheque, the cheqe stub and/or bank statement would act as a receipt.

    Whenever I rent a room, I always offer a receipt, and am shocked when I read of others who do not.


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    #56
    Ste.phen
    Registered Users Posts: 2,808 ✭✭✭Ste.phen


    I don't think they can take you to the small claims court for a matter like this, but stand to be corrected (I thought it was only for disputes concerning companies and consumers)

    If it's a 'he said / she said' situation you're probably home free, especially if someone else can verify your story.


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    #57
    mad_shopaholic
    Registered Users Posts: 135 ✭✭mad_shopaholic


    Nope SMCarrick paid in cash as thats what he wanted it in

    suppose I will just have to see how it goes as I have done nothing wrong and have someone to verify I have paid it. Its just unfortunate that I always have paid my rent and bills on time and now have no reference I can use when renting in my next place but at least I learned and wont get caught out again!

    Thanks again!


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