Kids + school

robindch

Lets put it to the poll!

Rev Hellfire

I'm theist, no kids, not prepared for cleric of other religion to baptize to access preferred school

I agree, school is the best place for kids.

DapperGent

I'm atheist/agnostic, no kids, am prepared to baptize to access preferred school

School them up I say! School some sense into them!

Mena

I'm atheist/agnostic, w/ kids, am prepared to baptize to access preferred school

robindch wrote: »

Lets put it to the poll!

Yeah, because the majority is always right!

CerebralCortex

I'm atheist/agnostic, no kids, am prepared to baptize to access preferred school

I can't agree going by my ****ty awful experience in school.

Manach

I disagree - the collection noun for a bunch of children is "pest"

robindch

I'm theist, no kids, not prepared for cleric of other religion to baptize to access preferred school

robindch wrote: »

Lets put it to the poll!

Notices that boards puts up the lead post first, then waits while you do battle with the hopeless polling option interface which appears 20 minutes later when fiddling (and cup of tea) is complete. Must drop a note to feedback.

<sigh>

robindch

I'm theist, no kids, not prepared for cleric of other religion to baptize to access preferred school

Rev Hellfire wrote: »

I agree, school is the best place for kids.

Down the coalmines aged eight, I say!

DapperGent

I'm atheist/agnostic, no kids, am prepared to baptize to access preferred school

I totally get why people give in on the whole baptism thing, I just don't think I could manage it myself.

Dades

I'm theist, no kids, not prepared for cleric of other religion to baptize to access preferred school

I note an early show of idealism in the poll...

You just wait till you're mortgaged to the hilt and time-poor, and THEN insist on driving your kids an extra hour a day to the nearest ET school.

Galvasean

I'm atheist/agnostic, w/ kids, not prepared to baptize to access preferred school

I'll probably just do the white lie in order to ensure my kids get into a good local school.
Before anyone uses the 'but then the Catholic Church can use them as statistics to influence...' argument, they'll do that anyway. They don't need solid facts/statistics to peddle their BS.

Naz_st

I'm atheist/agnostic, w/ kids, not prepared to baptize to access preferred school

Isn't there a bit of a contradiction here? Wouldn't the "preferred school" of most atheists be unlikely to require baptism in order to accept their kids?

However, if it became a necessity, it wouldn't bother me. One more ceremony with meaning only to those who find meaning in it...

liah

I'm atheist/agnostic, no kids, am prepared to baptize to access preferred school

I technically shouldn't vote in this. There's no way I'd raise my kids in this country were I to have them. Between blasphemy laws, 99% of government-funded schools being Catholic, religious classes being beat into you from an early age.. and (pettily, on my part, admittedly) all schools using uniforms, I just couldn't do it.

Also considering the amount of kids coming out of the systems who can't even speak/write properly, and are little arrogant bastards.. back to the Canadian education system for me tbh. Good education (why doesn't anyone here even know what a haiku is?), freedom of expression (only private schools use uniforms), freedom of religion (absolutely no religious stuff taught outside of the mythology section of history class unless you're in a private school), young kids aren't all bold and knackery and are fairly polite or at the very least, shy.

Love it.

That, or I'll go to mainland Europe.

Red Hand

liah wrote: »

I technically shouldn't vote in this. There's no way I'd raise my kids in this country were I to have them. Between blasphemy laws, 99% of government-funded schools being Catholic, religious classes being beat into you from an early age.. and (pettily, on my part, admittedly) all schools using uniforms, I just couldn't do it.

Also considering the amount of kids coming out of the systems who can't even speak/write properly, and are little arrogant bastards.. back to the Canadian education system for me tbh. Good education (why doesn't anyone here even know what a haiku is?), freedom of expression (only private schools use uniforms), freedom of religion (absolutely no religious stuff taught outside of the mythology section of history class unless you're in a private school), young kids aren't all bold and knackery and are fairly polite or at the very least, shy.

Love it.

That, or I'll go to mainland Europe.

I do know Haiku form,
Glazed frostily,
Like ice on Dawkin's buttock.:pac:


I'm not sure. If I had children, I wouldn't raise them in Dublin that's for sure. Outside of Dublin, there might not be a choice in finding a good school for them, especially in a rural area.

This country really needs to sort itself out when it comes to education. There should never be a system of having a religion in control of young children's minds. Education should be totally free of that.

It should be a situation like liah's comment above...although I disagree with you about the uniforms. I think there are valid arguments for uniforms.

Galvasean

I'm atheist/agnostic, w/ kids, not prepared to baptize to access preferred school

liah wrote: »

(why doesn't anyone here even know what a haiku is?)

How can people be so ignorant? They mentioned it in Showdown In Little Tokyo!

20goto10

I'm theist, no kids, not prepared for cleric of other religion to baptize to access preferred school

Baptize them as a last resort. It still doesn't prove there's a God so what does it matter.

ChocolateSauce

I'm atheist/agnostic, no kids, am prepared to baptize to access preferred school

Are you guys sure that the child needs to be baptised? I've never been baptised and I went to two Catholic primary schools, a protestant primary school, and a private protestant secondary school where I received a state grant (the logic of which was to help me go to a school which promoted my faith:rolleyes:) because my mother was baptised a protestant in the US in 1954. Or does it depend on the school?

LostinKildare

I'm atheist/agnostic, w/ kids, am prepared to baptize to access preferred school

Depends on the school/principal.

My kid isn't baptized, but they were fine about that at our (Catholic) village school. Unfortunately he will probably be the only one in his class of 30+ who won't be doing his communion next year, but he is very independent for a 7-year-old and I don't think it'll be a problem.

JimiTime

Went to Catholic primary and secondary schools. Never baptised, never made my communion or conformation. Know lots of people who did the same. In fact I know of no-one who was turned away from their local school on religious grounds. In fact, had some great debates with the brothers and religion teachers.

Tyler MacDurden

I'm atheist/agnostic, no kids, am prepared to baptize to access preferred school

liah wrote: »

Also considering the amount of kids coming out of the systems who can't even speak/write properly, and are little arrogant bastards.. back to the Canadian education system for me tbh. Good education (why doesn't anyone here even know what a haiku is?), freedom of expression (only private schools use uniforms), freedom of religion (absolutely no religious stuff taught outside of the mythology section of history class unless you're in a private school), young kids aren't all bold and knackery and are fairly polite or at the very least, shy.

Love it.

That, or I'll go to mainland Europe.

Ya bleedin' muppet-
The young skanger's jaws flapping
Ignorance is bliss.

Every time I visit somewhere clean and efficient in Europe I make this same vow, to send my as yet unborn progeny away for gentrification. I think our education system works pretty well if a kid is intelligent and open to learning. If you're struggling or simply not intellectually-inclined you'll drift through your schooling and be lucky to emerge with the most rudimentary skills.

I know people in their late teens and early twenties who display mind-boggling ignorance of basic language and arithmetic, not to mention a thorough lack of awareness of history, current affairs, etc.

I'll probably try the Educate Together option, if and when the time comes. Maybe someday we'll possess something akin to the Canadian model.

Don't despair entirely though Liah, a few of us can rustle up a mean haiku when required. :P

Zillah

Where's the "Willing to lie, cheat and steal" option? I have no problem whatsoever pretending my (hypothetical) child has been baptised to circumvent a discriminatory system.



Or whatever the hell a Catholic Baptism Cert looks like these days.

MrPudding

I'm theist, no kids, not prepared for cleric of other religion to baptize to access preferred school

Bit of a strange one for me this. When I lived in Dubluin my kids went to the French school and so baptism was not really relevent. In Milton Keynes the best school is a catholic school, which we took the decision not to send them to.

I voted that I would baptise them to get them into a school because if this was the only option available to me I would get it done. I have got three of my kids baptised to stop our parents whining at us. I would not hesitate for a second if I thought it would disadvantage my children in any way to not get them baptised.

Number 4 is currently baptism free and is like to stay that way at this point.

MrP

Dades

I'm theist, no kids, not prepared for cleric of other religion to baptize to access preferred school

liah wrote: »

Also considering the amount of kids coming out of the systems who can't even speak/write properly, and are little arrogant bastards...

I'm not sure why things seem so bad in Mullingar, but there are plenty of excellent schools and well rounded kids to be found around Ireland. Like any country in the world you will find disparate social characteristics depending on where you look.

And not sure what the relevance of a Haiku is, tbh! I had to look it up and I'm not compelled to blush with retrospective ignorance having done so.

Oh, and +1 for uniforms!

LostinKildare

I'm atheist/agnostic, w/ kids, am prepared to baptize to access preferred school

I'm American --
learned haiku in junior high.
Never use it though.

robindch

I'm theist, no kids, not prepared for cleric of other religion to baptize to access preferred school

Dades wrote: »

[...] things seem so bad in Mullingar

Possibly the catholic church getting back for somebody burning down Tullamore's Church of the Assumption in October 1983?

JimiTime

On the uniform level. Personally, I think they serve a valid purpose. My primary had no uniform, but my secondary did. In primary school, those from less fortunate backrounds would have shoddier clothes, no Nike etc neither. They would get picked on over it. 'Knacker' etc were the usual insults. In secondary, we all dressed in uniforms, and this type of thing did not really happen anymore. Though they'd then turn to someone being 'Ginger' or 'Specky' or some such:rolleyes:

Also, If fights occur, shop-lifting, anti-social behaviour etc. Uniforms can point people to the correct school. Also, students playing truent. Uniforms make it a bit harder.

Overall, I don't see the big fuss about them.

liah

I'm atheist/agnostic, no kids, am prepared to baptize to access preferred school

Dades wrote: »

I'm not sure why things seem so bad in Mullingar, but there are plenty of excellent schools and well rounded kids to be found around Ireland. Like any country in the world you will find disparate social characteristics depending on where you look.

And not sure what the relevance of a Haiku is, tbh! I had to look it up and I'm not compelled to blush with retrospective ignorance having done so.

Oh, and +1 for uniforms!

The kids seemed even worse in Dublin! Plus I keep hearing rants & raves about the kids here, whereas I don't recall any like that back home and it's not like I've been away THAT long.

I picked haiku because I was watching "Are You Smarter Than a 10-Year-Old" ages with a couple of Irish lads (and an English one), and that question came up, NONE of them knew what it was, whereas I learned it when I was about.. 5. :pac: It was more of a joke thing.
But I do find a lot of REALLY basic stuff (generally literature or language-based) I learned when I was tiny isn't known about at all here, and I'm not talking about obscure Canadian history facts or anything.

As for uniforms, I'd've hated them. I love being able to express my individuality and I think everyone should have the opportunity to. Especially as a teenager, when you're at your most expressive, as a rule. I went to a public school where we had no uniforms. Wouldn't've given it up for the world.

stevejazzx

I'm atheist/agnostic, no kids, am prepared to baptize to access preferred school

Zillah wrote: »

Where's the "Willing to lie, cheat and steal" option? I have no problem whatsoever pretending my (hypothetical) child has been baptised to circumvent a discriminatory system.



Or whatever the hell a Catholic Baptism Cert looks like these days.

No need to lie, just tell the school that your kid was baptised in Russia and that the church is no longer there and thus cannot issue the cert.
Worked for me; complete twoddle it was but never questioned!
Might be a bit strange if one of the partners isn't russian though:)

Goduznt Xzst

I'm atheist/agnostic, no kids, am prepared to baptize to access preferred school

JimiTime wrote: »

On the uniform level. Personally, I think they serve a valid purpose.

I can also see the purpose of Uniforms but I don't think they matter. In school kids segregated themselves for all sorts of reasons. Kids who collected Premier League Stickers, Kids with Cable, Kids with the latest WWF toys with kungfu grip.

I remember the day I was allowed to walk over and talk to the cable kids because I knew what happened on last nights Alien Nation.

Plus in secondary school, even though there was a uniform, variations on it separated groups. Instead of black shoes, rich kids would buy all black pumas or nikes, and instead of navy trousers they'd buy expensive navy combat trousers. Plus the only guidelines for jackets was that they be navy of black. Rich kids would have £400 gore-tex or kangol jackets.

Nowadays I'd imagine the gadgets you have on you is what separates the kids. I'm sure there are iPhone or Apple geek groups in secondary schools.

robindch

I'm theist, no kids, not prepared for cleric of other religion to baptize to access preferred school

stevejazzx wrote: »

No need to lie, just tell the school that your kid was baptised in Russia and that the church is no longer there and thus cannot issue the cert. Worked for me; complete twoddle it was but never questioned!
Might be a bit strange if one of the partners isn't russian though

Never thought of that. Excellent idea!

stevejazzx

I'm atheist/agnostic, no kids, am prepared to baptize to access preferred school

robindch wrote: »

Never thought of that. Excellent idea!

Happy to help!

This situation reminds me of that quote from Shawshank Redemption -
The funny thing is, on the outside, I was an honest man, straight as an arrow. I had to come to prison to be a crook.~ Andy Dufresne

I was a straight man until I came up against religion...

robindch

I'm theist, no kids, not prepared for cleric of other religion to baptize to access preferred school

stevejazzx wrote: »

No need to lie, just tell the school that your kid was baptised in Russia and that the church is [...] complete twaddle

<cough>

JimiTime

Goduznt Xzst wrote: »

I can also see the purpose of Uniforms but I don't think they matter. In school kids segregated themselves for all sorts of reasons. Kids who collected Premier League Stickers, Kids with Cable, Kids with the latest WWF toys with kungfu grip.

I remember the day I was allowed to walk over and talk to the cable kids because I knew what happened on last nights Alien Nation.

Plus in secondary school, even though there was a uniform, variations on it separated groups. Instead of black shoes, rich kids would buy all black pumas or nikes, and instead of navy trousers they'd buy expensive navy combat trousers. Plus the only guidelines for jackets was that they be navy of black. Rich kids would have £400 gore-tex or kangol jackets.

Nowadays I'd imagine the gadgets you have on you is what separates the kids. I'm sure there are iPhone or Apple geek groups in secondary schools.

True enough. Still don't see a big deal with uniforms though. Not to be insulting, but I always looked upon the whole 'i want to be free to express myself' with regard to uniforms, quite an insecure stance. That or just merely teen rebellion. Then again, we all exhibited juvenility in various ways.

stevejazzx

I'm atheist/agnostic, no kids, am prepared to baptize to access preferred school

robindch wrote: »

<cough>

I think I owe the catholic church a few, they've told me so many! {zing and drum roll}

I meant forge documents! doh! Maybe I meant no need for a bigger, messier lie....?
Shows my penchant for self deception hasn't let up though!:)

Galvasean

I'm atheist/agnostic, w/ kids, not prepared to baptize to access preferred school

liah wrote: »

As for uniforms, I'd've hated them. I love being able to express my individuality and I think everyone should have the opportunity to. Especially as a teenager, when you're at your most expressive,

That's all well and good for you secularly balanced Canadians, but your average Irish teenage girl's way of expressing herself through the clothes she wears is to wear as little as possible. Basically expressing herself as a little slut.

Goduznt Xzst

I'm atheist/agnostic, no kids, am prepared to baptize to access preferred school

JimiTime wrote: »

True enough. Still don't see a big deal with uniforms though.

I don't have a big problem with them either. Except from maybe the needless cost on the parents to buy them. I know my mother rue the day each year when she'd have to buy myself and my siblings completely new uniforms as we'd grew out the previous years ones. There was hand-me-downs, but as I was the only boy I needed a completely new uniform each year.

In regards to teenagers expressing themselves through rebellion. I'm pretty sure that's standard and not a sign of insecurity. It probably comes about when a kid realizes their parents and their teachers word is not law. Myself, I began testing what I could get away with at a very young age. By secondary school I knew which teachers cared and which didn't about how well you kept to the uniform. Some of the teachers (my art and maths teacher for example) had no issue when I just wore a T-Shirt and jeans to class. On days when I had these teachers I wouldn't wear a Uniform at all.

JimiTime

Goduznt Xzst wrote: »

In regards to teenagers expressing themselves through rebellion. I'm pretty sure that's standard and not a sign of insecurity.

I didn't say it was, it was an either/or comment.

CDfm

I'm theist, w/ kids, am prepared for cleric of other religion to baptize to access preferred school

Galvasean wrote: »

That's all well and good for you secularly balanced Canadians, but your average Irish teenage girl's way of expressing herself through the clothes she wears is to wear as little as possible. Basically expressing herself as a little slut.

+1 LOL

I didnt have a uniform -my kids do and while it bothered me -they think its normal.

CerebralCortex

I'm atheist/agnostic, no kids, am prepared to baptize to access preferred school

JimiTime wrote: »

True enough. Still don't see a big deal with uniforms though. Not to be insulting, but I always looked upon the whole 'i want to be free to express myself' with regard to uniforms, quite an insecure stance. That or just merely teen rebellion. Then again, we all exhibited juvenility in various ways.

I don't think its juvenile to want to dress yourself.

CDfm

I'm theist, w/ kids, am prepared for cleric of other religion to baptize to access preferred school

CerebralCortex wrote: »

I don't think its juvenile to want to dress yourself.

I dressed myself this morning

Dades

I'm theist, no kids, not prepared for cleric of other religion to baptize to access preferred school

CDfm wrote: »

I dressed myself this morning

Did you put on a school uniform? :pac:

CerebralCortex

I'm atheist/agnostic, no kids, am prepared to baptize to access preferred school

CDfm wrote: »

I dressed myself this morning

Well done.

pts

CDfm wrote: »

I dressed myself this morning

CDfm

I'm theist, w/ kids, am prepared for cleric of other religion to baptize to access preferred school

CerebralCortex wrote: »

I don't think its juvenile to want to dress yourself.

pts wrote: »

:mad:

pts

CDfm wrote: »

:mad:

pts wrote: »

I'm just joking with you, no offence intended. Friends?

JC 2K3

liah wrote: »

I picked haiku because I was watching "Are You Smarter Than a 10-Year-Old" ages with a couple of Irish lads (and an English one), and that question came up, NONE of them knew what it was, whereas I learned it when I was about.. 5. :pac: It was more of a joke thing.
But I do find a lot of REALLY basic stuff (generally literature or language-based) I learned when I was tiny isn't known about at all here, and I'm not talking about obscure Canadian history facts or anything.

Like what?

The curricula are probably just a bit different.

I think the Irish education system is excellent and AFAIK it's recognised as such worldwide.

That said, unless someone had a horrible time at school, everyone will be biased towards the education that they had being the best.

The only significantly bad part of my education was Catholic dogma being taught in primary school.

Would I baptise my child to get them into a public primary school? I certainly wouldn't want to and would be inclined to investigate the viability of the forgery option first.

Dr Pepper

I'm atheist/agnostic, no kids, am prepared to baptize to access preferred school

I wouldn't want to get my (non-existent as yet) children baptised for 2 main reasons:
- I don't like religion. I'd rather see people wake up to reality and accept the (harsh) truths about life and death. I don't want to perpetuate the problem. I'd see myself as being part of the problem rather than the solution if I was to get children baptised.
- Second reason is the ceremony itself. You have to stand up and say "I do" when the priest asks a dozen questions starting with "Do you believe in...". I'd feel like a hypocrite and a bit of a fool if I had to stand up in front of family and friends and do that plus I don't see why I should have to!

CerebralCortex

I'm atheist/agnostic, no kids, am prepared to baptize to access preferred school

JC 2K3 wrote: »

...I think the Irish education system is excellent and AFAIK it's recognised as such worldwide...

I know this is an off topic question but what qualifies it as an excellent system? Is it excellent in design and implementation? Or in comparison to other systems it just out performs them in terms of graduates? I know in my case and this is just anecdotal, that if it had not been for a mixture of my intelligence and an ambitious mother I would have just slipped through the numerous cracks again as I experienced it in the system. I personally think it leaves a lot to be desired.

JC 2K3

Well I'm only basing this on anecdotal evidence too. I thought I received a very good education.

I think the fact that there is a broad range of subjects taught, to a suitably high standard (my mother was a primary school teacher and taught in the states for a time - she said the standard of maths expected there was appaling, though they are dumbing things down here these days, unfortunately) is what makes it good.

Maybe it just catered to me because I'm quite intelligent? *shrug

CerebralCortex

I'm atheist/agnostic, no kids, am prepared to baptize to access preferred school

JC 2K3 wrote: »

Well I'm only basing this on anecdotal evidence too. I thought I received a very good education.

I think the fact that there is a broad range of subjects taught, to a suitably high standard (my mother was a primary school teacher and taught in the states for a time - she said the standard of maths expected there was appaling, though they are dumbing things down here these days, unfortunately) is what makes it good.

Maybe it just catered to me because I'm quite intelligent? *shrug

Plus the fact that your mother was a primary school teacher may have had a positive effect. It may be good I think excellent is a strong word. Opinion obviously.

JimiTime

CerebralCortex wrote: »

I don't think its juvenile to want to dress yourself.

I agree.