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First bulid in 8 years! Need advice.
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29-06-2009 9:24pm#1
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Case: Good, but not particularly quiet
Mobo: Reasonable. A bit pricey for a budget board, you should be looking at a proper AM3 for that price (or <€70 for a budget model)
CPU: Good, albeit a bit limited. You'd be better with at least three fast cores, or four reasonable ones if your budget can reach
Graphics: Almost overkill if you're not playing any games at all, a bit slim if you do intend to. Also that thing has onboard sound for HDMI, so Sound-Over-HDMI won't be audiophile-grade (but otherwise more than passable)
RAM: Good
HDD: Poor. You should be able to get a solid 1GB model for ~€65 in some places
PSU: Tripe. Nearly €60 for dreadful no-brand fail?!!?! :eek:
Optical: Good (unless you want/need Blu-Ray :P)
M/KB: Whatever.
Sound: Which one? Original Sonica is ancient at this stage... probably worse functionality than onboard sound and barely any better quality either. As a rule external audio is only for laptops and you really need a solid internal card for a desktop (or stick with onboard if you have to...)
Speakers: No idea. I'll hazard a helpful guess: NOT TRUST!
You might need a CPU cooler as I'm not sure if they bundle a HSF for the X2-550BE. And while it will work on that mobo (pending BIOS update), it won't be properly overclockable as budget AM3 mobos lack ACC. If you want to OC an AMD CPU properly you need a mobo with the SB750 southbridge.
EDIT: Checked and the X2-550BE does indeed come with a low-grade cooler as standard.0 -
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Case: Good, but not particularly quiet
Mobo: Reasonable. A bit pricey for a budget board, you should be looking at a proper AM3 for that price (or <€70 for a budget model)
CPU: Good, albeit a bit limited. You'd be better with at least three fast cores, or four reasonable ones if your budget can reach
Graphics: Almost overkill if you're not playing any games at all, a bit slim if you do intend to. Also that thing has onboard sound for HDMI, so Sound-Over-HDMI won't be audiophile-grade (but otherwise more than passable)
RAM: Good
HDD: Poor. You should be able to get a solid 1GB model for ~€65 in some places
PSU: Tripe. Nearly €60 for dreadful no-brand fail?!!?! :eek:
Optical: Good (unless you want/need Blu-Ray :P)
M/KB: Whatever.
Sound: Which one? Original Sonica is ancient at this stage... probably worse functionality than onboard sound and barely any better quality either. As a rule external audio is only for laptops and you really need a solid internal card for a desktop (or stick with onboard if you have to...)
Speakers: No idea. I'll hazard a helpful guess: NOT TRUST!
You might need a CPU cooler as I'm not sure if they bundle a HSF for the X2-550BE. And while it will work on that mobo (pending BIOS update), it won't be properly overclockable as budget AM3 mobos lack ACC. If you want to OC an AMD CPU properly you need a mobo with the SB750 southbridge.
Any suggestions for replacement components? Escpecially CPU, Mobo and PSU?0 -
jonnyfingers wrote: »Any suggestions for replacement components? Escpecially CPU, Mobo and PSU?
Just my 2c.
I have recently bought both this CPU and board, and no problems so far
http://www1.hardwareversand.de/articledetail.jsp?aid=25466&agid=1242
http://www1.hardwareversand.de/articledetail.jsp?aid=25395&agid=1232
Corsair make good quality and quiet PSUs and unless I am mistaken the the 450W should be more than enough for what you are building, (I have the 650W version and sometimes have to double check to see if it is on
).
http://www1.hardwareversand.de/articledetail.jsp?aid=17483&agid=240
I also have that Antec case and my system is fairly quiet under normal usage, that is with the two case fans set to a low speed, it is a fair bit louder if you turn them to max setting which you probably will never need to.
I haven't been in the country alot since I bought it (stupid work
) and I haven't had the opportunity to really use it much out it since I bought it, so at the moment I could not honestly say what the noise levels are like under heavy load.
EDIT: On a side note it is good to see AMD getting closer to competitive again with the higher end Intel Dual Cores, and about time too. I wasn't even aware that an X2 Phenom II had been released until I read this post. All in all this can only be good news for consumers wallets.0 -
marco_polo wrote: »Just my 2c.
I have recently bought both this CPU and board, and no problems so far
http://www1.hardwareversand.de/articledetail.jsp?aid=25466&agid=1242
http://www1.hardwareversand.de/articledetail.jsp?aid=25395&agid=1232
Corsair make good quality and quiet PSUs and unless I am mistaken the the 450W should be more than enough for what you are building, (I have the 650W version and sometimes have to double check to see if it is on).
http://www1.hardwareversand.de/articledetail.jsp?aid=17483&agid=240
I also have that Antec case and my system is fairly quiet under normal usage, that is with the two case fans set to a low speed, it is a fair bit louder if you turn them to max setting which you probably will never need to.
I haven't been in the country alot since I bought it (stupid work) and I haven't had the opportunity to really use it much out it since I bought it, so at the moment I could not honestly say what the noise levels are like under heavy load.
EDIT: On a side note it is good to see AMD getting closer to competitive again with the higher end Intel Dual Cores, and about time too. I wasn't even aware that an X2 Phenom II had been released until I read this post. All in all this can only be good news for consumers wallets.
I like the look of the Phenom II X3 720 and that motherboard seems to work well with it allowing some easy overclocking (I won't be doing too much of it as for the near future the PC won't be used for anything heavy). I'm thinking of leaving out the graphics card altogether for now as I don't plan on any gaming and it will keep the cost down. Then again I've never had a PC capable of playing the latest games so I might start. But I'll wait to buy a graphics card until then.
I might look for a different case. I doubt I'll need two fans so might find something cheaper.
Thanks for your help.0 -
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jonnyfingers wrote: »I like the look of the Phenom II X3 720 and that motherboard seems to work well with it allowing some easy overclocking (I won't be doing too much of it as for the near future the PC won't be used for anything heavy). I'm thinking of leaving out the graphics card altogether for now as I don't plan on any gaming and it will keep the cost down. Then again I've never had a PC capable of playing the latest games so I might start. But I'll wait to buy a graphics card until then.
I might look for a different case. I doubt I'll need two fans so might find something cheaper.
Thanks for your help.
Your welcome, I am sure that the extra core would be a help for audio processing. I think the case is good quality for the price and if you components are quiet then noise will not be an issue. Soltaire is right though (about everything) in that if the components are loud it will not provide much insulation for the noise, as the front panel is basically a giant air vent for two optional additional fans on in addition to the two that come out of the box. So if you are thinking about some minor overclocking and such down the line with potential for increased noise levels then maybe a quieter case is the way to go. 0 -
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jonnyfingers wrote: »I was thinking along the same lines. But I think it might be better to keep the cost down now. If I decide to upgrade in the future I might just get a new PSU when the time comes.
If the cost now is your main priority the logical choice is the 400W then. Well wear 0 -
marco_polo wrote:The power calculator on the Corsair site is claiming that the 400W PSU will run a Phenom II processor, a HD4850 and one Harddrive (No options to select onboard graphics card). Seems a pretty confident statement, I presume that they have no reason to lie about it otherwise they will have alot of angry customers.
Oh dear, lecture time :P
Generally its best to try and keep the power consumption around 70% of what the PSU is rated for, because its very rare that you'll be in a situation where all components are stressed to the max all at the same time so even while doing something quite intensive you'll only be hitting 50-55% of the PSU's output and that's where the PSU is most efficient.
The problem is that people just don't realize how much power components take. Review sites make things worse by confusing people by taking the power measurements from the wall, so you only see the whole system power consumption plus the inefficiency of the PSU, and as many sites like to use old, inefficient 1.1kW+ PSUs *cough*TomsstopusingthatPoSUltra!*cough* measurements get very inaccurate the lower you get, with a system with say a GTX260 taking over 300W due to a mammoth CPU and ~50W of waste from the PSU. If benched with similar test units a HTPC setup requiring 60W DC suddenly gobbles up way over 100W AC!
On average (there are variances, especially in low-binned parts) a X3-720BE won't hit the rated TDP of 95W until fairly stiffly OCd at stock or a low overvolt. (OCing a CPU will only see power usage balloon once you start to agressively overvolt it, at which point it's no longer sensible for daily usage anyway). And that's a bit of a precedent; Core2s usually draw 30-40W rather than 65W until you OC like crazy. Same for most other CPUs. Only Pentiums, i7s and Extreme Edition CPUs tend to reach their crazy-high TDP figures; C2 and to an extent P2 tend to be very frugal - and that's before we figure SpeedStep and p-states into the equation... Graphic cards are worse; in real life that "monster" HD4870 only takes 130W under torture testing (100% burn utilization) while the HD4770 only needs 50W to putter along, and nearly half that is for the GDDR5!
What anyone needs to do is work out what their most intensive oft-repeated task is (e.g. playing SupCom for a gamer, NOT PRIMING) and get a PSU with capacity to take nearly twice that load and no more. But that ain't easy, and you'll often use far less, so usually the best bet is to not get overkill CPU and GPUs for the intended purpose and use a proper website such as XBit-Labs to work out what they really use rather than the fairy tale on the box. Then take off a fair bit for the fact that you don't go around simultaneously torture-testing all your components all day long (unless you're a protein folder
), figure in any hungry non-standard MacGuffins (i.e. eight-HDD RAID array, full loudspeaker amp built into the mobo etc.) and get a PSU that can handle nearly twice that amount in DC; this guarantees the least AC power wasted!
So, X3-720BE: 75W DC unless incredibly unlucky. HD4850: ~105W IIRC. HDD: Eff-all on its own except when spinning up which again ain't constant. Whole system would consume ~300W priming+furmark, ~220W gaming and (if the HD4850 idles worth a $#!&) probably ~50W twiddling its thumbs in Mozilla Firefox on Win7. Yeah, I don't think the HDD spinning up would choke down the extra 150W to trip the CX400's OCP while the rest of the system's being tortured. Maybe go up to VX450 if you were OCing everything heavily and were a pessimist to boot, but I'd say the CX400 has the welly for a fair gaming rig and then some! :P0 -
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Yup but really the main thing is to avoid falling for the fairy tales peole spin about graphics cards and PSUs. No, two HD4890s in CF do not require a 1600W PSU or similar BS. The overstated requirements are a result of trying to cater to people trying to run real components on imaginary PSUs, i.e. 250W Deer/Huntkey craptasms and their ilk ("650W peak power" yeah, at -200Celsius maybe!) on one hand and pretenders that hide 1998 innards (500W... but only 100W on the 12V rail!) and aren't designed for modern 12V-based logic on the other.
Actually, its a good thing to bear in mind that regardless of what you do a graphics card can't draw more than the sum of its connectors, and its usually drastically less. AMD claims that the HD4770 needs a PEG (the PCIe thingy) connector as it can't get the power from the mobo. Bull. The mobo can supply 75W (150W on PCIe2, but no-one assumes that as it'd break back-compatiblilty with PCIe1 kit) and the card only uses 50W. Its the fact that due to design issues several low-end cards (9600GT is another - 60W) use split power rails and that's why you need the extra wire, not that it could need up to 150W! The HD4670 needs 49W and it doesn't need a PEG! Similarly, the HD4830/50 need 85/105W but they can physically handle up to 150W; most HD4870s only need ~130W but have capacity for 225W! (slot plus TWO PCIe connectors). If someone says a HD4870X2/GTX295 needs more than 300W they're talking poo - the cards can't physically handle more than that, they don't have enough conductors! (slot plus 6pin PEG plus double-strength 8pin PEG) These come in very handy when figuring out power balance on a multi-rail PSU, as each PCIe slot can supply 75/12=6.25amps, and each 6pin PEG also (75/12=6.25) and that means the 8pin ones can handle 12.5A (150/12) So in theory if you could attach enough connectors a cheapie EarthWatts EA650 could safely supply two HD4890 etc. with the 25A-rated 12V3 (6.25A*4 connectors=25A). Which is why it sucks that it only has the two
Another catch on multirail PSUs is that they tend to bunch all the HDDs (SATA/Molex) on one rail and stick in the mobo, optical and up 75W for each graphics card (PCIe slot) so that rail can get very crowded. Things suddenly get hairy if you have a lot of HDDs... they suddenly pull a quick surge (several amps on each 3.5" HDDs!) when spinning up from idle so if a fileserver suddenly had all its HDDs polled on startup by Windows loading... off goes the OCP (overcurrent protection) on that rail and back to the BIOS you go with a wonderful WTF?! expression on your face. Multirail PSUs don't gel with 6+ HDDs on top of everything else.
The only other big shocker (and reason why unirail PSUs are win) is that there are a few mATX mobos with amps built in. These are for the true HTPC crowd as you can hook a traditional passive speaker set right up and avoid naff PC-oriented active speaker sets. But the PSU also has to worry about the amp which sucks juice as well, and it can be a big load (well over 100W at times)
Once you realise the type of build then you have two powerful weapons in your arsenal - jonnyguru is the place to check up PSU vintage, foibles and electrical characteristics, and the only place I know that does independent GPU power tests is X-Bit Labs which is handy given the big discrepancies seen with their TDP ratings. X-Bit and a couple other places can help you but really the CPU can still be judged well enough by its TDP rating. Any techie must have a good read on both sites' articles for a better understanding as those places are real eye-openers 0
. So basically in general PSU requirements are overstated? Advertisement