The Irish Language & Party Politics.

dlofnep

I'm just trying to gauge whether or not parties play a part in the views on the Irish Language. I don't want this to turn into a big attack on each other, so if you could respectfully just answer the poll (yeah dlofnep, fat chance!) - I'd appreciate it

The way it will work is, select your party - and then from 1-4 and the party you vote for, for your opinion on the language. 1 being non-supportive of the language and happy to see the back of it, 2 being little to mild support, but overall not caring, 3 being supportive of the language, and 4 being very supportive of the language, and maybe active within the Irish language movement or daily speaker. I know not everybody is going to fit perfectly into these categories, but just answer to whichever feels closest to you.

Also - I know some people may have change parties recently - but just vote for what you would traditionally vote for (if applicable).

Thanks for your time.

javaboy

Moved from After Hours. Please take a moment to read the charter of the Politics forum if you haven't posted here before and also wipe your feet.

dlofnep

Oops, actually meant to post it in this forum anyways. Must have been reading AH. Thanks javaboy

greyed

Culture is a great thing, If the entire world was americanised there would be nothing to see.

I dont get why some people love to rage against the langauge just because they cant speak it, they should redirect their bitterness towards the education system. If your argument is money, there are plenty other areas of wastage worth your time.

Two fingers to an ancient language just because its "boorin' and useliss" is arrogance in the extreme.

edit: To answer your question, Whoever I vote for is not set in stone(only rule being, its not FF), but I would definitely maintain my support for the language regardless. Im not sure id connect the two. Maybe if one party in particular had great ideas for promotion of the language, it may influence my vote, though it would not be the only factor of course.

dlofnep

That's fine, if you don't vote for anyone in particular, just select other

My name is URL

Personally, I don't care enough about the Irish language to delve into what the parties I vote for think about it. So it's a non-issue for me

Call me cynical, but will speaking Irish actually help us progress... in any way?

dlofnep

That's entirely subjective. I'm just interested to see the level of support

thebman

Couldn't give a rats arse about the Irish language TBH. It isn't used by many and takes up more money than its worth as far as I'm concerned.

It isn't because I can't speak it, it is because nobody else does so whats the point?

You can through out all the statistics you like but nobody I know speaks Irish fluently. It makes it difficult to learn as you can't get exposure to it in the real world outside of the educational system so why bother with it is my opinion basically.

The gaelteacht can go nuts and speak it all they want but in most of the country people don't care as far as I can see.

dlofnep

That's fine, appreciate your input.

Richard Cranium

Chríochnaigh mé an Ardteist seachtain go leith ó shin. Ní gá caint as Ghaeilge arís riamh, ach ní stopfaidh mé mar is maith liom an teanga. Tá mé i mo chónaí gar do ghaeltacht na nDéise (An Rinn). Tá roinnt do mo cháirde ina gcónaí ann, ach den chuid is mó níl an Ghaeilge ach ag mo chairde atá ina gcónaí taobh amuigh den Ghaeltacht. Is dóigh liomsa nach dtuigeann daoine "fásta" cé comh mór a labhríonn daoine ogá an teanga.
Maidir leis an taobh polaitiúil den chomhá seo, san olltoghcháin áitiúil le déanaí, luaigh gach aon iarrthóir go raibh siad ag obair an t-am ar fad chun an Ghaeilge a chur chun cinn sa cheantar. Ní raibh ach roinnt de na hiarrathóirí neamhspleácha agus cúpla as Fine Gael agus Sinn Féin ag insint an fhírinne, i mo thuairim.



Rough translation, with a little bit more added on at the end:
I finished the Leaving Cert a week and a half ago, and now I need never speak Irish again, but I will still because I like the language. I live quite near the Ring Gaeltacht in Waterford and I have a few friends living there, but only my friends who live outside the Gaeltacht can speak Irish or like to do so. It's surprising how often young people tend to use the language (around by my neck of the woods anyway), be it the cúpla focail or entire conversations in Irish.

As for the political side of this thread; in the local elections, every single flyer that came through the door had a sentence in Irish on it saying that this or that person was fully supportive of the Gaeltacht and was working tirelessly with the local community to support and strengthen the use of the language. However, in my opinion only a couple of independents from the region, and a one or two Sinn Féin and Fine Gael candidates could actually give evidence to support their claims.

On a national level, I view Fine Gael as having the best policy towards the language. I believe Enda Kenny is on record as saying that it should not be compulsory in schools, but that's a whole other debate.

dlofnep

Richard, an bhfuil tú i do chonaí i Dún Garbháin?

Richard Cranium

Táim i mo chónaí cúpla míle taobh amuigh de Dhún Garbhán, 'sea.

dlofnep

Ah, ceart go leor. Táim i bPort Láirge mé féin. Bhí ciorcal comhrá againn anseo, ach tá sé críochnaithe don samhraidh. An bhfuil aon ciorcal comhrá ann ansin?

Richard Cranium

Níl a fhios agam, ach bíonn cúrsaí Gaeilge labhartha ar fáil sa chéardscoil do cainteoirí beagnach líofa, agus roinnt eile ar son daltaí ag ullmhú don Bhéaltriail san Airdteist, agus foghlaimeoirí eile. Tá táillí aird ag baint leo go léír áfach.

Ceapaim go bhfuil grúpaí ag déanamh iarracht creche lán- Ghaeilge a bhunú sa Rinn áfach. Feicfimid cé mhéad polaiteoirí a thabharfaidh tacaíocht dóibh.

dlofnep

An bhfuil eolas agat don cursaí labhartha? Rinne mé ceann cosúil le sin anseo ó Gaelchultúr, ach bhí sé €240.. saghas costasach.. Tá carr agamsa, mar sin - níl fadhb ar bith dul ansin.

(If anyone wants a translation of anything we said, just ask. don't want to come across as ignorant)

conchubhar1

seriously fg four???????????????????????????

fine gael are about as pro irish as the dup and the pup are......

Richard Cranium

Ní féidir liom nasc ceart a dhéanamh ach seo dhuit:
http://www.qualifax.ie/index.php?option=com_wrapper&view=wrapper&Itemid=66

Cuardaigh "Irish conversational". Gheobhaidh tú cúrsa amháin i gColáiste Chathal Naofa.

dlofnep

Ceart go leor, grmma a Richard.

SeanW

FG voter, primarily because they're the largest and most level headed opposition to FF.

I would be happy to see the back of the Irish language as it serves no useful function, ok I spent all my primary school years in Ireland and left it unable to string a sentence together As Gaelige, but I really don't care. English is my language. End of.

Switzerland and the United States are two excellent examples of proud peoples with strong cultures who don't have a questionable hangup about "their" unique language.

conchubhar1

SeanW wrote: »

FG voter, primarily because they're the largest and most level headed opposition to FF.

I would be happy to see the back of the Irish language as it serves no useful function, ok I spent all my primary school years in Ireland and left it unable to string a sentence together As Gaelige, but I really don't care. English is my language. End of.

Switzerland and the United States are two excellent examples of proud peoples with strong cultures who don't have a questionable hangup about "their" unique language.

i know there is a link to these two, but where batman where

dlofnep

SeanW wrote: »

Switzerland and the United States are two excellent examples of proud peoples with strong cultures who don't have a questionable hangup about "their" unique language.

The United States consists primarily of European immigrants, what exactly is their unique language? If you are referring to the native Americans, which consist of a very small amount of the population - you'll find that they do actually maintain their language. Very bad example.

Secondly - Switzerland maintains its own distinct dialect of German, which they attribute as their language, and the french speaking reason likewise. It's funny that you should mention Switzerland, because it's one country that is extremely hungup on language, and language separates many areas within Switzerland.

So tell me Seán - What are the US and Switzerland's unique languages?

Kev_ps3

As a Partiot I love my native language. My wish would be for the 32 countys speaking Irish only.

LordSutch

Kev_ps3 wrote: »

As a Partiot I love my native language. My wish would be for the 32 countys speaking Irish only.

Not very likely though, is it.

Kev_ps3

Camelot wrote: »

Not very likely though, is it.

Not with FF/FG/Labour in power anyway. Maby if we had a Patriot Party to vote for.

SeanW

dlofnep wrote: »

So tell me Seán - What are the US and Switzerland's unique languages?

They don't - that's why I put "their" in quotes. The U.S. is made up of English people, Italians, Irish, German, Africans, Oriental people and more recently, people from South America and Central Asia. Yet despite this - and the fact that they fought a brutal war of independence against England - they proudly speak the English language and consider it their own. They (like us) have a strong culture and fierce national identity. A unique language is not necessary.

As to Switzerland - you may be correct about them having a dialect. But that simply means they speak "foreign" languages with a few modifications. As no doubt you imagine, they are also fiercely nationalistic.

dlofnep

Seán - There is a big difference, and I'm not here to infringe on your opinion - because you're entitled to it and I respect it.. But the US doesn't HAVE an indigineous language, and neither does Switzerland (Swiss-German is their language and has been since the middle ages, and they are proud of it). The native Indians do have a language, and maintain that.

Also - You'll find within the US that many Italian-Americans learn Italian, and many Portuguese-Americans speak Portuguese. My friend's parents have lived in the states for 20 years, and still cannot speak English. She has to translate English for them.

Ireland is entirely different because we do have, and have always had an indigineous language. Ireland was always an Irish speaking Island, until colonization. Even then, it was a true bilingual society until the combined effect of mass death of Irish speakers from famine, and removal of the Irish language from our curriculum through the national schools.

My issue persay isn't with you stating that there is no onus on you to speak Irish. There isn't. I do have an issue with your examples of the US and Switzerland, as I have already spoken on.

I do find the anti-Irish movement within Ireland to be a peculiar one, given that it's a sentiment rarely shared in any other country of their indigenous language. Have a look at somewhere like Sweden, where while the population can speak English - they still maintain Swedish as a primary language. This is duplicated across Scandinavia. Never did they decide to scrap their own language, but the majority of the populations can also speak English.

NewDubliner

dlofnep wrote: »

Ireland is entirely different because we do have, and have always had an indigineous language.

Which a huge majority choose not to speak.

dlofnep

NewDubliner wrote: »

Which a huge majority choose not to speak.

Choice would imply they had the ability to speak it in the first place. That's very misleading.

The fall of the language was not a sudden process, it occurred over a span of a century, with 2 major issues impacting as I have already discussed - Curriculum through English (with no Irish as part of the said curriculum) and the death of the vast majority of Irish speakers on the Island, with less impact on English speaking and more prosperous eastern areas of the Island.

Sand

I do find the anti-Irish movement within Ireland to be a peculiar one, given that it's a sentiment rarely shared in any other country of their indigenous language.

What I find peculiar is that you dont seem to realise that Irish identity is multi faceted and extends to far more than Gaelic identity 500 years ago. All Irish people are Irish. Not all Irish people are Gaelic by any stretch of the imagination. Plenty of Irish people dont share identity with medieval Gaelic culture which at best only forms one strand of modern Irish identity. Hence its not their indigenous langauge. They feel about as passionately about it as they do ... Welsh.


As for why the Irish "movement" encounters such hostility...have you encountered the Irish movement and their "Lets FORCE everyone to speak Gaelic!!!! promotion of the language? The way Irish langauge is leveraged by the state to penalise you? Oh and the linking of language and national identity, or to be more clear national identity and speaking a particular language? Yeah, that really rubs people up the wrong way too.

Mr.Micro

dlofnep wrote: »

I do find the anti-Irish movement within Ireland to be a peculiar one, given that it's a sentiment rarely shared in any other country of their indigenous language. Have a look at somewhere like Sweden, where while the population can speak English - they still maintain Swedish as a primary language. This is duplicated across Scandinavia. Never did they decide to scrap their own language, but the majority of the populations can also speak English.

No wonder many of us hate Irish, taught if that is the right word by brutes and violence when we were young. It is too backward looking as well. The Gaelic speakers think that they are a cut above the rest of us Irish when in reality most of us have moved on and see Irish for what it is pointless and obsolete for the majority.

dlofnep

Sand wrote: »

As for why the Irish "movement" encounters such hostility...have you encountered the Irish movement and their "Lets FORCE everyone to speak Gaelic!!!! promotion of the language? The way Irish langauge is leveraged by the state to penalise you? Oh and the linking of language and national identity, or to be more clear national identity and speaking a particular language? Yeah, that really rubs people up the wrong way too.

Nobody is forced to speak anything. You are perfectly entitled to speak English if you so wish. The language is apart of our curriculum in an attempt to preserve and revive it. I don't see you quimmimg about being forced to study history, or geography as part of a mandatory curriculum?

Nobody has stated that there is a link between language and national identity. I don't believe that by speaking English you are less Irish. I do believe that the Irish language is a fundamental aspect of our culture and heritage and that there is great merit behind preserving it.