The Irish Language & Party Politics.

conchubhar1 · 01-07-2009 8:33pm

oscarBravo wrote: »

Clearly. If it was a French or Danish forum I'd be typing in French or Danish. If I was typing in English on a French or Danish forum, I'd use the words "French" or "Danish". Is it used in an English-language sentence?

well you are not - others are.

did i say it was? i was just pointing out that you found using ''gaeilge'' as pretentious and stupid - as i do using latin unless of course you are speaking, reading or studying it.

P. Breathnach · 01-07-2009 8:49pm

oscarBravo wrote: »

I really wish people would stop using the word "gaeilge" in English sentences. It makes no more sense than me saying my Français is OK, but my Dansk isn't so hot.

I think we should blame the Department of Education and Science for that. And yes, I do mean blame, as it is a silly practice.

In some circumstances (typically when communicating with English speakers who are not familiar with Ireland) I think it is okay to use "Gaelic" or "Irish Gaelic".

conchubhar1 · 01-07-2009 8:52pm

P. Breathnach wrote: »

I think it is okay to use "Gaelic" or "Irish Gaelic".

you think use of gaeilge is ''silly''

whereas your proposal is downright wrong

P. Breathnach · 01-07-2009 9:07pm

Kev_ps3 wrote: »

I hate when the anglo-Irish say that if we spoke out native language we would go back to the stone age. Nearly every country speaks its native language. Its just scare tactics imo.

Who are these "anglo-Irish" of whom you write? Do you mean Anglophone Irish people, the large majority of our population?

Let's be realistic: the Gaeltacht community is giving up the language. It's something I regret, but I have no right or power to change it. The rush to English seems to be led by young women, and I have the impression that they consider English to be more cool. Herself and I were in a pub in the Gaeltacht last week: on one side of us was a group of young local women, conversing in English; on the other side was a group of young men, using Irish. They all knew one another, and when there was interaction between the groups, English was the language they used. It wasn't that the young women didn't have Irish: they used it when engaging with a couple of local toddlers who seemingly spoke only Irish, and it was clear that they had first-language fluency in the language.

P. Breathnach · 01-07-2009 9:08pm

conchubhar1 wrote: »

you think use of gaeilge is ''silly''

whereas your proposal is downright wrong

Ná bí seafóideach.

conchubhar1 · 01-07-2009 9:10pm

right lets abandon irish - solely on the above comment
altho it may one snapshot in space and time

as a matter of interest - what gaeltacht were you in?

conchubhar1 · 01-07-2009 9:11pm

P. Breathnach wrote: »

Ná bí seafóideach.

gaelic - is é gaeilge na hAlban

gaelic - that is the irish of scotland (scottish gaelic)

above - ''ná bí seafóideach'' = do not be nonsensical

NewDubliner · 01-07-2009 9:33pm

dlofnep wrote: »

because you continue to dismiss support for the language despite all polling stating otherwise.

I don't deny that there is goodwill towards Irish. You're exagerating the strength of support.

I've no problem with some taxpayer funding going to Irish as long as it is reasonable.

The law requiring all stage services to be provided in Irish, regardless of cost or the demand for those services is unreasonable. I'll consider voting for any party that cancels the blank cheque that's been handed to Minister O'Cuiv and his friends in the Irish language translation lobby.

P. Breathnach · 01-07-2009 9:35pm

conchubhar1 wrote: »

right lets abandon irish - solely on the above comment
altho it may one snapshot in space and time

I'm not proposing that Irish be abandoned. I'm reporting on something that I saw which indicates to me that the people of the Gaeltacht may be in the process of abandoning it. It's something I observed before, going back over more than 30 years (no, don't infer that if it has been going on so long, it's not having an effect: it was a different location then, a place where Irish has noticeably weakened in my lifetime).

as a matter of interest - what gaeltacht were you in?

Aran.

conchubhar1 · 01-07-2009 9:39pm

aran is a tourist area
most likely they were not locals

anyway - it would be one of the weaker gaeltachts like iorras and daingean

where is the place you saw it 30 years ago?

P. Breathnach · 01-07-2009 9:40pm

conchubhar1 wrote: »

gaelic - is é gaeilge na hAlban

Ní aontaím le sin. An spórt Albanach é an pheil Ghaelach?

oscarBravo · 01-07-2009 9:44pm

This is an English-language forum - please post in English. There are forums on the site where posting in Irish is the norm, but this isn't one of them.

Karlusss · 01-07-2009 9:51pm

"Gaelic" is a broader term than just signifying Scottish Gaelic (Gaidhlig or Gaeilge na hAlban). Irish Gaelic (Gaeilge, Gaelg, Gaelainn, any more? don't want to offend anyone), Scottish Gaelic and Manx are all Gaelic languages.

So it's not strictly wrong to call Irish simply "Gaelic", but it's probably along the same lines as telling a Danish speaker they speak "North Germanic".

"Irish Gaelic" as a term is clearly useful if you're talking to someone unfamiliar with what exactly Irish/Gaeilge is, and it's ridiculous to suggest otherwise.

Edit: As a side-note, it's kinda funny to observe the way people say there's no point in speaking Irish because nobody else does, and then other people telling people not to speak Irish because not everyone can.

conchubhar1 · 01-07-2009 9:53pm

no they are goidelic languages

gaelic is used with peil to mean the gaa sport

otherwise gaelic on its own is own the scottish gaelic (pronounced gallic)

Ní aontaím le sin. An spórt Albanach é an pheil Ghaelach? = i dont agree with that. is gaelic football, a scottish sport?

yaboyabobo · 01-07-2009 9:53pm

Pride in your country so be proud of our language.So there.

P. Breathnach · 01-07-2009 9:54pm

conchubhar1 wrote: »

aran is a tourist area
most likely they were not locals

I know they were locals. They were sitting beside us and not trying to keep their conversation quiet, and they were interacting with people sitting on the other side of us (and no, they were not in any way ill-mannered; it was an informal environment). Our Irish is good enough for us to know who is a native speaker, and these lassies were.

anyway - it would be one of the weaker gaeltachts like iorras and daingean

If the Gaeltachts in south Connemara and Aran are weak, then all hope for the survival of the language is gone.

where is the place you saw it 30 years ago?

Near Inverin. I think you will find little Irish there now.

Look, I speak Irish, and I like Irish, and both Herself and I used it in Aran. I'm not wishing it away; I regret its demise. But there is no point in pretending that things are other than they are.

[I can find plenty of Irish west of Dingle.]

conchubhar1 · 01-07-2009 9:55pm

Karlusss wrote: »

Edit: As a side-note, it's kinda funny to observe the way people say there's no point in speaking Irish because nobody else does, and then other people telling people not to speak Irish because not everyone can.

well if you know the person is not irish or not familar with it i would agree dont use ''gaeilge''

but they will understand ''irish''

gaelic is common, this does not affect how it is still wrong.

NewDubliner · 01-07-2009 9:58pm

yaboyabobo wrote: »

Pride in your country so be proud of our language.So there.

English is one of our national languages.

yaboyabobo · 01-07-2009 9:59pm

Ta mise i mo chonai i Londain.Nuair a bhionn seans agam,deanann me iarracht an teanga a chaint.Is as Beal an Mhuirthid ata me.Cheapaim nach bhfuil an cheart ag Enda agus e ina mhuinteoir roimhe.Bfeidir nach bhfuil an "spelling"go ro mhaith ach rinne me iarracht.Slan go foill.

conchubhar1 · 01-07-2009 9:59pm

P. Breathnach wrote: »

If the Gaeltachts in south Connemara and Aran are weak, then all hope for the survival of the language is gone.

Near Inverin. I think you will find little Irish there now.

Look, I speak Irish, and I like Irish, and both Herself and I used it in Aran. I'm not wishing it away; I regret its demise. But there is no point in pretending that things are other than they are.

[I can find plenty of Irish west of Dingle.]

iorras is mayo - aran is a tourist area

inverin - near spiddal? near two irish colleges? no irish?

its demise has been predicted since the 1700's and possibly earlier

west of daingean there is lots of irish - in daingean there is some but to call it a real gaeltacht well......

conchubhar1 · 01-07-2009 10:02pm

yaboyabobo wrote: »

Ta mise i mo chonai i Londain.Nuair a bhionn seans agam,deanann me iarracht an teanga a chaint.Is as Beal an Mhuirthid ata me.Cheapaim nach bhfuil an cheart ag Enda agus e ina mhuinteoir roimhe.Bfeidir nach bhfuil an "spelling"go ro mhaith ach rinne me iarracht.Slan go foill.

sin an rud is tabhactacht! thats the most important thing

i live in londan. when i have the chance, i try my best to speak the language. i am from belmullet. i thought what enda said was wrong and he was a teacher before. maybe the spelling is not to good but i tried. bye for now.

translation of above so osacarBravo doesnt lock the thread.

to above poster - it is a spoken language here, and in law it is our second language. depending on your outlook, it is not our national language.

all posts in this thread i have translated - in the nearest post after it which is mine (so i could edit it)

P. Breathnach · 01-07-2009 10:03pm

oscarBravo wrote: »

This is an English-language forum - please post in English. There are forums on the site where posting in Irish is the norm, but this isn't one of them.

Come on, OB! Surely a little latitude should be allowed in a discussion like this. I was trying to make a point without going OTT.

It gets right up my nose that a great deal of Irish-language journalism involves covering the state of the language as a perennial hot topic. I find it almost as vexing to find people advocating the use of Irish when they themselves do not do so (and in at least some cases cannot do so).

yaboyabobo · 01-07-2009 10:07pm

Obviously ob hasnt a focail

conchubhar1 · 01-07-2009 10:10pm

dont say that - you have to bring up points on his modship and help desk - oB is very picky on that

i have translated all posts of mine and others (in my post closest after theirs) that were as gaeilge.

yaboyabobo · 01-07-2009 10:15pm

If and when the Gaeilge is dead,people will lament its demise but it will ro deanach then.Our little contributions helps keep it beo.

Mr.Micro · 01-07-2009 10:17pm

yaboyabobo wrote: »

Ta mise i mo chonai i Londain.Nuair a bhionn seans agam,deanann me iarracht an teanga a chaint.Is as Beal an Mhuirthid ata me.Cheapaim nach bhfuil an cheart ag Enda agus e ina mhuinteoir roimhe.Bfeidir nach bhfuil an "spelling"go ro mhaith ach rinne me iarracht.Slan go foill.

I will bet that is awful useful in London, they must be crying out for more:rolleyes:

conchubhar1 · 01-07-2009 10:19pm

Mr.Micro wrote: »

I will bet that is awful useful in London, they must be crying out for more:rolleyes:

what you find useful and others find useful is pretty damn suibiachtúil (subjective)

---
gaeilge = gaeilge/irish
ró déanach = too late
beo = (a)live

P. Breathnach · 01-07-2009 10:21pm

conchubhar1 wrote: »

iorras is mayo - aran is a tourist area

Aran is a Gaeltacht with a permanent population of almost 1,000 people, almost all of whom speak Irish as a first language. Even in the presence of tourists, they are likely to speak Irish to one another. Except for those young women, who might be the thin end of the wedge. Some of them might marry and stay on the island, and raise English-speaking children.

inverin - near spiddal? near two irish colleges? no irish?

I didn't say no Irish; I said little Irish. The existence of an Irish college proves little except that a place is marked on the map as a Gaeltacht.

its demise has been predicted since the 1700's and possibly earlier

And it's happening. When I was a child, I met a native speaker of Irish from Omeath. You won't find one now.

west of daingean there is lots of irish - in daingean there is some but to call it a real gaeltacht well......

Dingle (to call it An Daingean is as silly as to call Irish Gaeilge) wasn't a Gaeltacht when it was first designated as one. It was part of an official pretence that the language is stronger than it was at the time.

conchubhar1 · 01-07-2009 10:26pm

they might - they might pick up french also.

it means there is lots of irish trafic throughout - so its more than a map thing.

no, you think it is happening. i dont know where ometh is - but the liklihood of it having no fluent irish speaker is nearly impossible.

its name is an daingean, take it up with ó cuív or the natives ancestors.

on omeath a quick google search gives - http://www.foinse.ie/cursaiocht.php?province=2&county=15
foinse was sold there - now i know that was out of business now - but surely someone bought it there and was fluent eneough to read it
anyway - omeath would have to be exceptional to have no irish fluent speakers

Scoil Naomh Bhride, Ard Achaidh Omeath
Scoil Naomh Lorcan, Omeath

no irish spoken there - it is dead or dieing there? or anywhere?

http://wikimapia.org/2570814/ga/Ó-Méith

louth dialect of irish read by two speakers

An Lú (translated as louth)

Brian Mac Cuarta
Ardachaidh, Ó Meith
‘M’athair agus slat iascaigh’

Brighid Ní Chaslaigh
Droim Lac, Ó Méith
Na huimhreacha 1-20

http://www.nuacht.com/colm/recordings.html - down the list - search ''an lú''

yaboyabobo · 01-07-2009 10:38pm

Stupidity has no boundaries.

The Irish Language & Party Politics.

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