Comedy sketch on gas giveaway

Bailer1

Newstalk Radio did this comedy sketch about the gas off Mayo given away to Shell by Ray Burke and Bertie:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wq0ccdacGMw

Kama

'No need to Corrib your enthusiasm'

Great skit!

epik

Brilliant!

JonathanAnon

yeah just started downloading the podcasts of this after seeing the guys on one of the morning shows last week. Have to say I was disappointed with the first few I downloaded, but the last one wasnt bad. That character based on Dev starts to get on my nerves though, way too overused.

It's called the Emergency if you are looking for the podcast and is on Newstalk.

JonathanAnon

JonathanAnon wrote: »

It's called the Emergency

That show? That's not the first cousin of funny.

Better than Bull island, perhaps. But not much...

mike65

Hmm have indymedia sent out agents to infiltrate boards.ie?

Bailer1

Yeah that's the show, "The Emergency". It doesn't always land its punches but this one is pretty class.

Hmm have indymedia sent out agents to infiltrate boards.ie?

Well I'm not some "agent" of indymedia I can assure you, but I have started reading it recently about this Shell stuff. You see the odd hardnose header comment on the site but sure you get them on all sites

epik

Bailer1 wrote: »

Y


Well I'm not some "agent" of indymedia I can assure you

That's totally something an agent would say...

big b

haven't watched the clip as I'm on a wireless connection, but just wondering:

since Corrib was discovered by Enterprise Oil in 1996, and Enterprise were bought out by Shell in 2002, is this "giveaway to Shell"

laziness to find out the facts

or

never mind the facts, let's hate Shell?

epik

big b wrote: »

haven't watched the clip as I'm on a wireless connection, but just wondering:

since Corrib was discovered by Enterprise Oil in 1996, and Enterprise were bought out by Shell in 2002, is this "giveaway to Shell"

laziness to find out the facts

or

never mind the facts, let's hate Shell?

I think its more a case of here's another fine example of how our government got it wrong.. again.

and as to laziness to the facts... There's more to it than just enterprise oil Ireland discovering the gas and being bought out by shell.

Bailer1

since Corrib was discovered by Enterprise Oil in 1996, and Enterprise were bought out by Shell in 2002, is this "giveaway to Shell"

laziness to find out the facts

lol :pac:

I think you'll find it's not usually a case of "finders keepers" when it comes to a countries natural resources (with the exception of Corrib gas). Normal countries take a royalty and a good hefty tax rate in return (e.g. 50% in UK). I see you've done lots of fact finding on this! :eek:

Mucco

Does anyone know how much the gas is worth, and how much it's costing to extract it?
Everyone seems to be moaning that Shell are getting the gas for free, but maybe it's not worth a lot?

M

Kama

If it wasn't worth money, why would they spend money to extract it?

I'm pretty sure they have done their ROI figures; I'm also pretty sure they did a 'cost-benefit analysis' on buying politicians...

Bailer1

Does anyone know how much the gas is worth, and how much it's costing to extract it?

Conservative estimate is apparently €50 Billion worth of gas (although it would be in Shell's interest to understate reserves to avoid attention to their impressive deal with the oirish). See some figures here: http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/opinion/2009/0619/1224249118435.html

The_Minister

Not funny tbh.

big b

Bailer1 wrote: »

lol :pac:

I think you'll find it's not usually a case of "finders keepers" when it comes to a countries natural resources (with the exception of Corrib gas). Normal countries take a royalty and a good hefty tax rate in return (e.g. 50% in UK). I see you've done lots of fact finding on this! :eek:

Irelands' Government could have formed a state company to develop Corrib.
They didn't.
They sold off the rights for a low return, but guaranteed continuity of supply.
If the wells had come up dry, we'd all be wringing our hands about how the Gov. wasted our money.
Shell risked their millions & got a result, which wasn't guaranteed.

So, should we direct our sour grapes at the Government who agreed the deal, or Shell, who, like any other company, sought the best deal they could get?
If I sell you a lucky dip for a pound & you win a million, are you a bollox for buying the ticket?

So you carry on hating the big bad multinationals for being good at their business, while you ignore the other party in the deal, and I'll keep using my 20 odd years in the industry for fact finding.:)

Joey the lips

For everything else there is mastercard.... Priceless

Bailer1

Irelands' Government could have formed a state company to develop Corrib.

What in the name of god are you talking about? Who mentioned setting up a state oil company? :eek:

They sold off the rights for a low return, but guaranteed continuity of supply.

Yes a very very low return. There is no reason we can't get a 50% tax rate (very normal rate for extracting resources) plus 7% royalties on the proceeds. And the idea that it would "scare" away investment to renegotiate the deal now is BS. Shell won't "scare", they'll simply aim for maximum profit, and there'd still be plenty of profit. It is naieve to think that the deal Ray Burke did with Shell (before he was jailed for corruption) had the best interests of the Irish people in mind. Just take some royalties now. Simple. What is your objection to that really?

big b

Bailer1 wrote: »

What in the name of god are you talking about? Who mentioned setting up a state oil company? :eek:

I did. It's the way to do things when you want control. Like the UK did, amongst others.




Yes a very very low return. There is no reason we can't get a 50% tax rate (very normal rate for extracting resources) plus 7% royalties on the proceeds. And the idea that it would "scare" away investment to renegotiate the deal now is BS. Shell won't "scare", they'll simply aim for maximum profit, and there'd still be plenty of profit. It is naieve to think that the deal Ray Burke did with Shell (before he was jailed for corruption) had the best interests of the Irish people in mind. Just take some royalties now. Simple. What is your objection to that really?

I've no objection. But I can see the negotiations being a short conversation.

Gov. - You'll probably do great out of this deal. On reflection, we should get more

Shell - you agreed the deal, we took the risk, it paid off. Why would we change the deal now? By the way, some of your people have cost us extra in security, repairs, court cases, revising plans, etc etc. Can we have some more money for that, please?

Incidentally, if you think we should form legislation to allow us to "just take some royalties now" - Corrib is one, smallish gas field. There may be other, bigger ones. If you were an oil company boss, who had seen Shells' deal reneged on, would you:
a) carry on regardless, some profit is better than none
b) wait for a change of government/economic climate, so you can deal with people who keep to the agreed deal?

Ray Burke did whatever he did. It's gone. We're not going to attract investment by moving the goalposts every time it suits us.

Bailer1

Hilarious, your argument boils down to "yes it was a corrupt deal, so just bend over and take it now like good little people".

And your rationale about upsetting emotionally sensitive energy companies is boulderdash. This threat from industry that if we don't do it on their terms, they'll punish us for unsubordination. Don't be such a nancy. Tax rates change all the time, just reinstate the royalties to what they were before FF removed them (you needn't make it sound oh so difficult by talking about "forming legislation"). Companies will always continue to do profitable deals, you're trying to convince people to be complicit in corruption by your empty scaremongering. I admit the industry PR is quite effective in scaring us into submission, but we don't have to swallow it whole.

Oh and maybe the opposition Shell are encountering to the project has something to do with the corrupt deal on the taxes, the fact that behind closed doors they were given Coillte land to build their refinery on, and that An Bord Pleanala unequivocally rejected development of the refinery there but was subsequently overturned by FF ministers... No? Of course not, my mistake. Loonies the lot of them. Bleedin crusties wa?

RDM_83

big b
just to point out, the uk introduced a windfall tax on the north sea oil companies, don't think any have pulled out of the UK and the goverments reputation was not harmed

big b

bailer
yet again you fail to see that your wrath is aimed at the wrong people.

Protesting on site about possible safety issues is one thing.
It was our government who gave Shell a favourable deal. If you don't like it, you should surely be criticising them, not the beneficiaries?


RDM - yep, the UK brought in a windfall tax. When the price of oil went sky high & the oil companies were making enormous profits from the windfall.(note that the tax wasn't because there was more oil there than originally thought)
As yet, there's not a drop of gas come out of Corrib. So regardless of the current price, we could hardly bring in a windfall tax where there's no windfall as yet?
If prices do go up significantly, I would have no issue with a windfall tax on profits from gas produced.

thebman

If people say the deal was corrupt, present the evidence.

If you have none, get some or go look for some and stop saying it until you find evidence.

I mean there may have been something corrupt going on (hell probably was knowing this country) but without evidence, it just makes the protesters look like fools.

Bailer1

big b - you're not giving me much to respond to, your points are pretty tenuous at this stage. I'm simply making the point that we need to rectify the giveaway deal by taking some royalties. That would be more in line with international practice as you know. Lecturing me on who I should criticise is just diversionary guff.

thebman - it's very clear we got a sh^tty deal: 25% corporation tax (after expenses..) and 0% royalties is, putting it mildly, "very soft by international standards": http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/opinion/2009/0619/1224249118435.html

There's no need to prove corruption, at a glance you can see we're getting way less tax from this gas than we should be. We need to demand the government reinstate the 6% or 7% royalties at least. It's a painfully simple point. Of course industry "analysts" will loudly object, that's their job, it doesn't matter.

thebman

Bailer1 wrote: »

thebman - it's very clear we got a sh^tty deal: 25% corporation tax (after expenses..) and 0% royalties is, putting it mildly, "very soft by international standards": http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/opinion/2009/0619/1224249118435.html

There's no need to prove corruption, at a glance you can see we're getting way less tax from this gas than we should be. We need to demand the government reinstate the 6% or 7% royalties at least. It's a painfully simple point. Of course industry "analysts" will loudly object, that's their job, it doesn't matter.

You need the proof the deal was corrupt or the contract no matter how crap still stands as legal and you can't stop the deal.

Anything else is just throwing the toys out of the pram because the government was too stupid to ask for more.

Bailer1

the contract no matter how crap still stands as legal and you can't stop the deal

Not true. One deal with Shell doesn't strip our government of the ability to enact legislation. We have every right to change the tax rates on our natural resources.

epik

Why this Shell deal doesn't pi$$ off more Irish people, I'll never know. The idea that we should just sit back and take it is more than a little depressing. For what its worth to the Shell apologists here. I don't blame them. They just did what any multi national corporation would do, go for the best possible deal and fcuk everyone bar the shareholder.

Our government let us down really badly with this one. So whether through incompetence or corruption, we're out of pocket...

...and from listening to the Irish news I'd say we could do with a few bob. Is it really too much to ask that our elected representatives get a better deal out of this?
Personally, I think not.

Zuiderzee

I work in Oil and Gas, and we are a laughing stock.

We have the worst deal I have ever seen.

We could have been Norway, instead we end up worse off than Nigeria.

And it is not a done deal, many countries have decided to nationalise this type of industry, and the corporations still want to do business.

Shell even have our naval service and police actig as security guards, so we are paying to get shafted.

Its a discrace quite frankly.

The revenue on a normal 40-50% tax rate on natural resources would pay for health, education, social services and many other aspects in our society

****ing joke

And sad thing is that we keep electing the same pricks.

Bcause of Labour support for this and Lisbon, I am really being driven twoards SF

LostinBlanch

Zuiderzee wrote: »

I work in Oil and Gas, and we are a laughing stock.

We have the worst deal I have ever seen.

We could have been Norway, instead we end up worse off than Nigeria.

And it is not a done deal, many countries have decided to nationalise this type of industry, and the corporations still want to do business.

I have been sayingthe same things for years. Don't forget that Ray Burke ordered his civil servants out of the office so he and he alone negotiated that deal. But if I remember correctly even he had the tax set at 50% saying that anything lower was too generous. Then in about 93 or so Bertie renegotiated that same deal and cut the tax to 25%. Now wasn't he in front of the tribunal answering questions about certain events that occured after his well documented financial difficulties at the time?

Also re the under reporting of the size of the field, I have spoken to people who have done a lot of research in the marine geology of the west coast and have done various reports for oil exploratoin companies. After my conversations with them I am seriously concerned that the field size is grossly under reported. To the best of my memory, the government have only taken Shell's word for the size of the field. But then again maybe my concerns are baseless. I mean it's not like Shell have any reason to lie right?

Zuiderzee wrote: »

Shell even have our naval service and police actig as security guards, so we are paying to get shafted. Its a discrace quite frankly.

The revenue on a normal 40-50% tax rate on natural resources would pay for health, education, social services and many other aspects in our society

****ing joke

It is a disgrace that our navy and gardai are used as Shell security. Also that tax revenue would save a lot of people a lot of hurt. It's a f*cking joke but we're not the ones laughing.