DJ'ing with Ableton - anyone use it?

Zascar

I've always been interested in what Ableton can do, I know a lot of DJ's use it to do live sets etc. I never really bothered as I was happy using torq but I've read some articles saying that Ableton is actually brilliant and gives you some really great new possibilities.

Anyone here use it for mixing and doing gigs etc? What's it like? Do you have to warp every track beforehand or can you do it on the fly? I want to use it with my Xponent controller, I hear its easy to do Midi Learn but not sure exactly what to map to what cause I'm totally new to it.

gsparx

If you're the kind of DJ that mixes 2 tracks together with the odd effect etc. then Live is probably unnecessary but it can provide endless possibilities from the point of view of amount of simultaneous tracks going, multiple effects, unusual effects, using loops and really kind of radically altering the tracks your working with.
I personally don't really like the warping thing although I am still on Live 5. A lot of tracks I tried were misread by Live. It's definitely recommended having everything ready to go rather than doing it on the fly.
Warping does give you much more flexibility though.
I've never done a gig with Live so I'm certainly no expert.

Stab*City

the warping engine is far more advanced than that of live 5. for djing ableton is a breath of fresh air. the possibilites are endless.. i use it with my controller and it rocks.. so much so that i have ordered the new ableton/akai built APC-40.. here is a little clip just to give you an idea of whats possible. any more questions just ask.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Sj3kF6dt4uo

franklyshocked

Ok, so a few of you already know I use Live 7 as part of my set up.
I still throw on CD's and Vinyl to be seen "DJing" as the heads would call it.
I've got a lot of stuff on Vinyl I just don't have on WAV or MP3 and haven't been bothered to record myself, but I digress.

I've got 2 templates that I've kind of put together from gigging for the last few years with Live.
First of all I've got a 4 deck template for regular DJing. Tracks are in order of BPM or style. I've never claimed to be an R'n'B DJ but Live helps me mix whatever type of track I've got warped and loaded.
Its good fun looping the beat on one track and bringing in the Vocal from another for Live remixing. That said even with the best warping engine in the world you'll hear distortion once a track gets warped too far. It depends on the track but you'll know when it happens, unless thats the sound you're looking for.
I'm using an Oxygen8 V2 midi controller (Cheap but good)
The bass kill on the 4 decks are mapped to the bottom 4 knobs on the O8V2. I map the cross fader to the top right knob.
On a second page on the O8V2 I map the effect sends. 2 rows of 4 knobs so, 2 sets of assignable effects sends for 4 channels. On further pages I can map master channel effects controls.
You can write out the maps if you want but you'll remember them after a bit of practice.

If I can make one simple bit of advice for new Live users, Don't try to load extra tracks during your set. It can cause Live to Freeze. Its a stable platform but you have to close and restart which can take time depending on your machine. I always have a CD loaded and on standby just in case.

Set up 2 is a bit more experimental and I'm sure many other live users have their own version.
I've got 2 channels of Drum loops, 2 channels of tracks, a channel of Percussion loops and finally a track filled with Synth loops and Accapellas.
I stick and auto filter on the Drum loops and Synth/Accapella track and map the frequency controls to the O8V2.
On the 2 tracks with the regular tracks loaded I pop on some Eq's cutting out the bass and lowering the high end. This mostly leaves whatever melodies and vocals that the track is made up of.
Then I can trigger the drum loops and percussion loops as I want remixing Live on the fly depending on the crowds response. I can add Accapellas and syth loops to simpler tracks giving them a completely new sound.

Its great fun using a 5/8 or 7/8 beat on a 4/4 track to completely change it up.

The effects set up is similar to the effects set up in the first example, except I also route all the tracks into another sub mix track before I send it out to the master channel. I can add effects automation clips for more sonic fun.

This is something I'm still calling a work in progress. I've done a few house parties with this set-up but I'm rolling this out over the coming weeks for Live performance. The set up as you can tell takes a lot longer than buring off a few CD's so if you're doing a 2 hour set you could be setting up and tweaking things for a while.

That the sort of response you were looking for Zascar?

If anyone is looking for advice or tutorials just PM me, although I'm living out here in the sticks in Newbridge during the week

franklyshocked

gsparx wrote: »

If you're the kind of DJ that mixes 2 tracks together with the odd effect etc. then Live is probably unnecessary but it can provide endless possibilities from the point of view of amount of simultaneous tracks going, multiple effects, unusual effects, using loops and really kind of radically altering the tracks your working with.
I personally don't really like the warping thing although I am still on Live 5. A lot of tracks I tried were misread by Live. It's definitely recommended having everything ready to go rather than doing it on the fly.
Warping does give you much more flexibility though.
I've never done a gig with Live so I'm certainly no expert.

The engine on 7 is far superior and easier to work with. Being honest, the warping part is usually the least of my worries.
There are some tracks like live recordings that you have to work a lot on from time to time but 95% of tracks are warped in a couple of seconds, with practice.
I'm waiting for word on a new update to Live 8 before switching. I still prefer Live 7 for the time being

Zascar

Thanks man that's really helpful! I'm really interested in having a go at some of the more advanced features and playing about with relooping and multiple decks etc. I'm sure my Xponent will do the basics for now, but if I did want to go further can anyone recommend a decent (but cheap) basic midi controller?

FS any chance you can show me the basics of Dj'ing with Ableton some time? Handy cause I live 2 mins from your gig a the weekends!

franklyshocked

Zascar wrote: »

Thanks man that's really helpful! I'm really interested in having a go at some of the more advanced features and playing about with relooping and multiple decks etc. I'm sure my Xponent will do the basics for now, but if I did want to go further can anyone recommend a decent (but cheap) basic midi controller?

FS any chance you can show me the basics of Dj'ing with Ableton some time? Handy cause I live 2 mins from your gig a the weekends!

Not a prob. I'm off for most of july, due to some other commitments, but I'll probably be back in at the beacon in August.

Doing a live set in Dorans in Athboy on the 4th of July and another Live set in the Basement in Carrick-on-Shannon on Friday the 10th of July if anyone is interested

Psychedelic

I started using Ableton this time last year and I haven't played the decks since. My setup is 4 channels in Ableton running through an M-Audio Firewire 410 soundcard into the 4 channels on a DJM 600 mixer.

Ableton is very easy to use and warping tunes usually only takes a minute or less when you get the hang of it.

g5fd6ow0hseima

Right,

recently bought ableton to occupy myself during the summer so im wondering what would be the best midi mixer for Ableton Live 7 but on a low budget, the likes of the DJM-800 and the Allen and Heath 3D im told are up there with the best, but obviously, they're above board for me. Is there any good websites for 2nd hand DJ equipment?

thanks

Zascar

Don't cringe but the Behringer DDM4000 gets good review and its cheap as chips.
Can anyone comment?

VinylJunkie

Was thinking of buying it before, I used one at a house party before the only annoying thing was the up faders felt strange and the lights are very bright. You also need to buy a special Midi cable for it if using with ableton.
I know Steve Don uses one in his DJ set-up and he likes it ask what he thinks.

g5fd6ow0hseima

Zascar wrote: »

Don't cringe but the Behringer DDM4000 gets good review and its cheap as chips.
Can anyone comment?

http://www.prodjforums.com/forum/showthread.php?t=6438

read through a goo bit of this guys post, seems cool enough. But im best off wait and see what a few more heads say on this thread...

seannash

VinylJunkie wrote: »

Was thinking of buying it before, I used one at a house party before the only annoying thing was the up faders felt strange and the lights are very bright. You also need to buy a special Midi cable for it if using with ableton.
I know Steve Don uses one in his DJ set-up and he likes it ask what he thinks.

yeah the upfaders are ****.just feel really cheap.apart from that.i liked it for the money

jtsuited

A thread about ableton is always gonna have lots of talk about the 'possibilities'. In reality, the effects suck balls for live use (and are adequate at best for production) compared to the new version of Traktor.

For DJ sets, I'd stick with Traktor or something like that. For live stuff (as in producers doing live performances of their stuff), ableton is the only option (and a good one at that).

The browsing in Ableton is a real pain in the ass for doing dj stuff, and warping on the fly is an absolute no-no (you WILL train wreck).

franklyshocked

jtsuited wrote: »

A thread about ableton is always gonna have lots of talk about the 'possibilities'. In reality, the effects suck balls for live use (and are adequate at best for production) compared to the new version of Traktor.

For DJ sets, I'd stick with Traktor or something like that. For live stuff (as in producers doing live performances of their stuff), ableton is the only option (and a good one at that).

The browsing in Ableton is a real pain in the ass for doing dj stuff, and warping on the fly is an absolute no-no (you WILL train wreck).

You're leaving me confused,
So Ableton Live is the only option for Live performance(and a good one at that), But yet the effects suck balls for live use.
Can you clarify which side of the fence you're standing on JT?:D
I do agree the built in standard effects aren't hectic, but who uses presets?
You can layer effects in an effects rack and there's nothing stopping you from using professional VSTs for a more unique sound.

As for warping on the fly, I don't recommend people loading new tracks during a set. If you're loading from another drive or across a partitioned drive it can freeze, sometimes. But even with tracks I've loaded and forgotten to warp prior to starting the set, I've never had any trainwrecks.
If you use Live all the time, to say what I've said before, warping isn't a problem.
It seems to be such a stumbling block for people starting out with Live or for new users, and I know from your logic tutorials you know your way around DAWs better than most (Big respect) so all I can say is when it clicks, it clicks, and like some of the rest of us you'll soon be wondering what all the nonsense about warping being hard was all about.

jtsuited

haha. just reread what i posted and yes it seems confusing.

ok to clarify. the kinds of effects that suit djing are very specific, and are entirely different than what works in production. Traktor have their effects nailed in that regard. Ableton's are very ropey indeed. There are not many third party plugins designed for dj use so it's hard to get a good fx setup in ableton (for djing).

But for live stuff (as in live performances of a producer's own productions), you can get up to all sorts of fun with a whole load of one-shots, re-edits, stems, etc. with Ableton and just have to be cautious regarding FX.

So in summing up. For DJ use, Traktor imo is far far far superior. For live use (as in producer's playing their own stuff live), Ableton.

Most of the big name dj's who ableton had endorsing them a while ago are all using traktor now btw.

jtsuited

franklyshocked wrote: »

As for warping on the fly, I don't recommend people loading new tracks during a set. If you're loading from another drive or across a partitioned drive it can freeze, sometimes. But even with tracks I've loaded and forgotten to warp prior to starting the set, I've never had any trainwrecks.
If you use Live all the time, to say what I've said before, warping isn't a problem.
It seems to be such a stumbling block for people starting out with Live or for new users, and I know from your logic tutorials you know your way around DAWs better than most (Big respect) so all I can say is when it clicks, it clicks, and like some of the rest of us you'll soon be wondering what all the nonsense about warping being hard was all about.

ok to clarify -
it actually dumbfounds me why people can't understand warping (even though it's an entirely different process in version 8 - much better imo). The reason warping on the fly is a no-no is

1. It takes precise trackpad/mouse movements
2. It will distract you from playing and will generally have you staring at the screen closely all night.
3. It's actually a heavy cpu process, and you'll often get a slight glitch in the playback when you drop a clip on the session screen. I just got version 8 and it still has this problem. It's something to do with the playback buffer because if you Rewire it into a different Daw you don't hear it when you've recorded it.

Zascar

Thanks you've definitely made my mind up now - I'm not really going to bother with Ableton and I'm going straight to Traktor Pro. I always had a thing about ableton benig so wide randing although it "could also be used for dj'ing" wheras Traktor Pro is 100% purpoise built for DJ's like me (but better ). I might give Ableton a bash just for the experience but the runthrough I got from the production end just confused the hell out of me - and give me a proper appreciation of just how incredibly skillfull you have to be to make good electronic music. Hats off to those who can but I get more pleasure formt the simple things like mixing other peoples hard work to make something unique of my own.

Plus, there is a .tsi file that maps Traktor to my Xponent perfectly - I had tried it before unsuccessfully but I'll give it another go now. I think the interface is nivcer on Torq but Traktor pro is undoubtedly a better product. I could not quite get used to the waveform's as they are very different to Torq & others but I'm sure it will not be anything to worry about, especially when I start playing with beatgrids etc.

I'll throw up a post on Traktor now, but continue on the Ableton discussion it's very interesting!