British Army to launch recruitment campaign in Republic

TheDoc

How is this a big deal?

Irish citizens have been joining the British Army for decades if not longer.

From my understanding from friends and relativies who have attempted to/joined the Irish army, it still works of a very ancient British model of military.

Where you will rarely progress from infantry to higher officer positions, unless you have a relative or family member high up who basically recommends you.

A friend of mine is having to join the German army and complete service with them, because he will not be accepted for officer training, however coming back from serving as an officer in a foreign army, will grant him a "better" chance in gaining an officer role in his national army.

Bit ridic if you ask me.

Not only do most of our talented work force now have to look abroad, but our best officers have to go abroad aswell : /

Heineken pants

Be adventurous...join the French Foreign Legion...id say its great craic:D

Poccington

TheDoc wrote: »

How is this a big deal?

Irish citizens have been joining the British Army for decades if not longer.

From my understanding from friends and relativies who have attempted to/joined the Irish army, it still works of a very ancient British model of military.

Where you will rarely progress from infantry to higher officer positions, unless you have a relative or family member high up who basically recommends you.

A friend of mine is having to join the German army and complete service with them, because he will not be accepted for officer training, however coming back from serving as an officer in a foreign army, will grant him a "better" chance in gaining an officer role in his national army.

Bit ridic if you ask me.

Not only do most of our talented work force now have to look abroad, but our best officers have to go abroad aswell : /

Your friends and relatives are talking bollocks tbh.

And how exactly do our best officers have to go abroad?

Poccington

Zuiderzee wrote: »

Dude, I asked a question in relation to the charter, not a mod, dont want to be a mod here - I would not consider myself impartial enough.

If discussing recruitment is not recruiting, then asking a question in relation to the charter is not back seat modding

Myself and the other Mods will decide what is what in this forum, thanks.

If you want to keep pushing your little agenda about what you percieve to be recruiting, well then take it to Feedback or Help Desk.

Zuiderzee

Its already been raised

arybvtcw0eolkf

Zuiderzee wrote: »

then asking a question in relation to the charter is not back seat modding

Poccington wrote: »

Myself and the other Mods will decide what is what in this forum, thanks.

If you want to keep pushing your little agenda about what you percieve to be recruiting, well then take it to Feedback or Help Desk.

I'll add to this and say that if you've a question in relation to the forum's charter then I'd suggest you address it via a PM to either a forum Mod or a catagory Mod.

You appear to have some problems dealing with authority, in this case Moderators and their decisions in respect of this forum. A friendly suggestion, but maybe this isn't a forum that your happy browsing and probably best avoided to relieve you of further stress - just a suggestion mind!.

.

Zuiderzee

I'll take the suggestion under consideration. But I dont really stress mind!

As for an agenda pocc, I dont have one, but I do feel uncomfortable with recruitment, or percieved recruitment for any military or paramilitary groups outsire the PDF/RDF here in Ireland - thats not an agenda, its just a gut feeling.

A lot of people felt this way not so long ago, hence the amendment to the charter back then.

Fozzydog3

Hello all ,im really sorry but this is the most relevant thread i can find to my question i sent away my application form for the navy a week ago and was wondering when i should get a reply ?

Hard Larry

Irish or British Navy?

If its Irish Navy then you might be waiting a while as there is a moritorium on recruitment & promotion in the Public Sector that won't be reviewed until 2011

If its the RN then sorry mate don't know maybe try contact them through their website

monosharp

Lads, anyone know how many Southern Irish join the RIR and the Irish guards yearly ?

Also, I know its been asked before but how do people feel about this ?

I am thinking about it actually and its my only option in a foreign military as I want to go officer.

I've heard everything from "Its grand in this day and age" to "you better never come home again".

chughes

monosharp wrote: »

Lads, anyone know how many Southern Irish join the RIR and the Irish guards yearly ?

Also, I know its been asked before but how do people feel about this ?

I am thinking about it actually and its my only option in a foreign military as I want to go officer.

I've heard everything from "Its grand in this day and age" to "you better never come home again".

Dear god, are we ever going to see an end to this attitude ?
Mono, if you feel that this is for you, go for it and f#ck the begrudgers.

odin_ie

if you want to do it, go for it, and to hell with the begrudgers!!

the_syco

Perestroika wrote: »

Mercenary would be incorrect terminology, but any individual from this country who joins the British army would get the same level of respect I would have for a mercenary.

What level of respect would you give someone joining the French Foreign Legion?

monosharp wrote: »

I've heard everything from "Its grand in this day and age" to "you better never come home again".

I have my doubts that the people who say this have ever tried to be in the RDF/PDF.

gizmo555

the_syco wrote: »

What level of respect would you give someone joining the French Foreign Legion?

None. Why should someone who goes off to join the army of foreign country - assuming they're not already resident in and have no other connection to that country - be entitled to any? I disagree with Perestroika, "mercenary" is a perfectly accurate description. It's precisely how the Concise Oxford Dictionary defines the word: "a hired soldier in foreign service".

I don't have any problem with anyone joining the French Foreign Legion, the British army or anything else. I sincerely wish any of the posters on this forum who take that step the best of luck. But don't kid yourselves about what you are.

Poccington

gizmo555 wrote: »

None. Why should someone who goes off to join the army of foreign country - assuming they're not already resident in and have no other connection to that country - be entitled to any? I disagree with Perestroika, "mercenary" is a perfectly accurate description. It's precisely how the Concise Oxford Dictionary defines the word: "a hired soldier in foreign service".

I don't have any problem with anyone joining the French Foreign Legion, the British army or anything else. I sincerely wish any of the posters on this forum who take that step the best of luck. But don't kid yourselves about what you are.

So if someone has wanted to be a soldier all their life and the PDF isn't recruiting for at least the next 2 years, they shouldn't look at any other paths?

Oh by the way, according to the Geneva Convention they most certainly aren't mercenaries, a mercenary is any person who:

(a) is especially recruited locally or abroad in order to fight in an armed conflict;
(b) does, in fact, take a direct part in the hostilities;
(c) is motivated to take part in the hostilities essentially by the desire for private gain and, in fact, is promised, by or on behalf of a Party to the conflict, material compensation substantially in excess of that promised or paid to combatants of similar ranks and functions in the armed forces of that Party;
(d) is neither a national of a Party to the conflict nor a resident of territory controlled by a Party to the conflict;
(e) is not a member of the armed forces of a Party to the conflict; and
(f) has not been sent by a State which is not a Party to the conflict on official duty as a member of its armed forces

Now since I'm a military man, I'll take the Geneva Conventions definition over a dictionary.

I've nothing but respect for the people who decide to pursue a career of soldiering in the Brits, FFL, Yanks etc. because our own Government has decided to put the brakes on recruiting... Well done for stepping up to the plate and best of luck in your careers. Lesser men may try label you this and that or talk nonsense but let's be honest here... **** them.

iceage

I don't think Gizmo555 was having a pop at people heading this way and that joining other countries armies, but might be off the mark suggesting that these people are Mercenaries, they are not.

Opps, missed your post Poccinton. Explains it all really.

getz

iceage wrote: »

I don't think Gizmo555 was having a pop at people heading this way and that joining other countries armies, but might be off the mark suggesting that these people are Mercenaries, they are not.

Opps, missed your post Poccinton. Explains it all really.

gizmo only posted it as a anti/brit thing, the sad thing is as ireland has signed up to NATO, in the case of any conflict it would be the british army who would be expected to be on the front line.

concussion

getz wrote: »

gizmo only posted it as a anti/brit thing, the sad thing is as ireland has signed up to NATO, in the case of any conflict it would be the british army who would be expected to be on the front line.

Just to clarify, you mean we are part of NATO PfP and not a NATO member?

getz

concussion wrote: »

Just to clarify, you mean we are part of NATO PfP and not a NATO member?

if a country joins the north atlantic treaty organization it itself becomes a target, IPP,PFP, and ISAF,ireland is also building a early warning system on the west coast,that alone would be a reason for a ;first strike;you may think ireland is neutral,but do they ?

diverdriver

Does anyone think Ireland is really neutral?:rolleyes: But in any case don't we have the 'promises' we were given before Lisbon.

ireland is also building a early warning system on the west coast

Really? Care to enlighten us! That has kind of slipped under my radar. :rolleyes:

gizmo555

getz wrote: »

gizmo only posted it as a anti/brit thing

To be clear, I have nothing whatsoever against the British as a people, nor the British army. Indeed, my father's sister was killed serving with the British army during WW II. I do have serious issues with some of the recent uses the British government has put its military to, but I think I share that with a very large number of the British people themselves.

Poccington wrote:

So if someone has wanted to be a soldier all their life and the PDF isn't recruiting for at least the next 2 years, they shouldn't look at any other paths? . . . . I've nothing but respect for the people who decide to pursue a career of soldiering in the Brits, FFL, Yanks etc. because our own Government has decided to put the brakes on recruiting

This is a point of view which is regularly expressed here in various ways by various posters. But first of all, enlisting as a soldier is not just another career choice - soldiers (and armed police) are unique in that they are the people society authorises and equips to kill or be killed on its behalf. Secondly, it's not the government's job to provide opportunities for everyone who wants a military career. If cutbacks mean a freeze on recruitment, well so be it. Plenty of would-be engineers & architects, or carpenters & blocklayers are having to rethink their career plans at the moment too.

Soldiering is an honourable profession and while I can understand someone joining up to defend their own country or, like my aunt, for a righteous cause, signing up and putting your life on the line for "a career" is quite different. I remember reading an article in the Irish Times after the funeral of an Irishman killed serving with the British army in Iraq. In the course of it one of his mates described how they joined up together after talking through the options - they wanted a military career and just as now the Irish army wasn't recruiting. The Legion was out because of the language, and the British army was a lot less hassle to enlist in than the US army. Principles or patriotism had nothing to do with it. I thought at the time what a waste - going off and getting killed to help Tony Blair maintain the delusion that Britain is still a world power.

As for the difference between the dictionary definition of "mercenary" and the Geneva Convention's - dictionary compilers aim to define the ordinary meaning of words as they are commonly used. On that basis and in my opinion, someone who goes off and joins a foreign army just because they want a career which is unavailable in their own country is by definition a mercenary.

Manic Moran

None. Why should someone who goes off to join the army of foreign country - assuming they're not already resident in and have no other connection to that country - be entitled to any?

One can, I think, make a valid argument that since the interests of Ireland and the UK are so closely interlinked (Face it, though nominally politically and economically independent, if the UK were to collapse, Ireland would not be far behind) that serving in the British Armed Forces is very much of benefit to Ireland. As you put it yourself, 'a good cause' such as WWII.

NTM

Donny5

getz wrote: »

if a country joins the north atlantic treaty organization it itself becomes a target, IPP,PFP, and ISAF,ireland is also building a early warning system on the west coast,that alone would be a reason for a ;first strike;you may think ireland is neutral,but do they ?

We're not in NATO.

Here are the members of NATO: http://www.nato.int/cps/en/natolive/nato_countries.htm.

Here are the members of PfP: http://www.pims.org/pfp/countries.

PfP is a diplomatic body, where member states make certain agreements with NATO on an individual basis. It is not a military alliance like it's bigger brother.

concussion

diverdriver wrote: »

Does anyone think Ireland is really neutral?:rolleyes: But in any case don't we have the 'promises' we were given before Lisbon.
Really? Care to enlighten us! That has kind of slipped under my radar. :rolleyes:

Boom boom :pac:


Seriously though getz, what's the story with this early warning? Warning for what? Located where? Shannon airport already has an active radar, is that not an early warning system?

Why would this make us a target for a first strike? Seeing as you mention ISAF I can only assume you mean we will face a terrorist attack - do the Taliban/AQ have strike aircraft??

gizmo555

Manic Moran wrote: »

One can, I think, make a valid argument that since the interests of Ireland and the UK are so closely interlinked (Face it, though nominally politically and economically independent, if the UK were to collapse, Ireland would not be far behind) that serving in the British Armed Forces is very much of benefit to Ireland. As you put it yourself, 'a good cause' such as WWII.

NTM

Well, first of all, I don't agree that serving in the modern British army (or the French, or the US) is "a good cause", as it obviously was when it was fighting WW II. That's beside the point though, because I do accept that others may in good faith believe that it is, and if they join up in that frame of mind, calling them mercenaries may be unfair.

However, I see no evidence in the posts here discussing options like whether to join the FFL or the US marines that much or any thought is being given to that sort of consideration. Certainly there was none in the case of the unfortunate Irish casualty I mentioned above. All the discussion is just about wanting "a military career" and none is about how in extremis you'd be committing to go and kill the people that Gordon Brown, Nicolas Sarkozy or Barack Obama want dead - if they don't get you first!

I'm well past the age where I'd be of interest to any army as a recruit, but I do have two young sons. If in years to come either of them came to me saying they intended enlisting with any of these armies, I would do everything in my power to dissuade him.

neilled

So what about a man or woman from Northern Ireland who sought a career in the PDF. Would they be mercenaries also ?

minidazzler

neilled wrote: »

So what about a man or woman from Northern Ireland who sought a career in the PDF. Would they be mercenaries also ?

Nope, because the PDF aren't goat raping baby eaters.:rolleyes:

Donny5

minidazzler wrote: »

Nope, because the PDF aren't goat raping baby eaters.:rolleyes:

Never been around the 2nd, so!

gizmo555

neilled wrote: »

So what about a man or woman from Northern Ireland who sought a career in the PDF. Would they be mercenaries also ?

Since, as article 2 of the Irish constitution states, "it is the entitlement and birthright of every person born in the island of Ireland, which includes its islands and seas, to be part of the Irish Nation", obviously not.

iceage

minidazzler wrote: »

Nope, because the PDF aren't goat raping baby eaters.:rolleyes:

Oye! I never said anything about goats..:p

I realised Gizmo555 that your earlier posts were not anti-brit rants, and I believe not anti any foreign Force for that matter.
Some interesting points I have to say.

FruitLover

Zuiderzee wrote: »

And I for one think that publicising the desire of UK forces to recruit more people from the Republic is is activly promoting recruitment.

I think you're the only one.

Zuiderzee wrote: »

I do feel uncomfortable with recruitment, or percieved recruitment for any military or paramilitary groups outsire the PDF/RDF here in Ireland

I don't understand why you're 'uncomfortable' with it. Nobody's going to force anyone to join.

Poccington

Donny5 wrote: »

Never been around the 2nd, so!

I resent that comment!

minidazzler

Poccington wrote: »

I resent that comment!

The word you are looking for is RESEMBLE:D

Oh, I know of the Vikings well. But I was on about the DF as a whole, they are a thing unto themselves and do not represent the DF in any trully official capacity once they have more than a glass of white wine in them!!!

OS119

Zuiderzee wrote: »

As for an agenda pocc, I dont have one, but I do feel uncomfortable with recruitment, or percieved recruitment for any military or paramilitary groups outsire the PDF/RDF here in Ireland - thats not an agenda, its just a gut feeling.

A lot of people felt this way not so long ago, hence the amendment to the charter back then.

i think there's a fundamental logic problem here - Boards has a forum specifically for recruitment into PSNI, a non-RoI armed police force, yet it has a problem with recruitment to the armed services of the state that PSNI is a part of, which in logical terms is utterly bizaare.

so its not ok to recruit for the Army EOD ammunition technician defusing a 'suspect device' but it is ok to recruit the PSNI officer holding a rifle and guarding him....

consistency is whats needed.

concussion

gizmo555 wrote: »

Since, as article 2 of the Irish constitution states, "it is the entitlement and birthright of every person born in the island of Ireland, which includes its islands and seas, to be part of the Irish Nation", obviously not.

They're still UK citizens though. The same thing holds true - they are joining the armed forces of another country. How are they not mercenaries by your definition??

gizmo555

concussion wrote: »

They're still UK citizens though. The same thing holds true - they are joining the armed forces of another country. How are they not mercenaries by your definition??

They are not UK citizens if they choose not to be. If they choose to be both UK & Irish citizens they can do that too. This is clearly set out in the Good Friday Agreement, which declares that the UK and Irish governments:

recognise the birthright of all the people of Northern Ireland to
identify themselves and be accepted as Irish or British, or both, as they
may so choose, and accordingly confirm that their right to hold both
British and Irish citizenship is accepted by both Governments and would
not be affected by any future change in the status of Northern Ireland.


http://www.nio.gov.uk/agreement.pdf

(Not to mention that the current commander-in-chief of the Defence Forces, President McAleese, is from Belfast!)

getz

gizmo555 wrote: »

They are not UK citizens if they choose not to be. If they choose to be both UK & Irish citizens they can do that too. This is clearly set out in the Good Friday Agreement, which declares that the UK and Irish governments:

recognise the birthright of all the people of Northern Ireland to
identify themselves and be accepted as Irish or British, or both, as they
may so choose, and accordingly confirm that their right to hold both
British and Irish citizenship is accepted by both Governments and would
not be affected by any future change in the status of Northern Ireland.


http://www.nio.gov.uk/agreement.pdf

(Not to mention that the current commander-in-chief of the Defence Forces, President McAleese, is from Belfast!)

check-mate

Poccington

OS119 wrote: »

i think there's a fundamental logic problem here - Boards has a forum specifically for recruitment into PSNI, a non-RoI armed police force, yet it has a problem with recruitment to the armed services of the state that PSNI is a part of, which in logical terms is utterly bizaare.

so its not ok to recruit for the Army EOD ammunition technician defusing a 'suspect device' but it is ok to recruit the PSNI officer holding a rifle and guarding him....

consistency is whats needed.

Very good point, might be an issue worth raising.

Boston

OS119 wrote: »

i think there's a fundamental logic problem here - Boards has a forum specifically for recruitment into PSNI, a non-RoI armed police force, yet it has a problem with recruitment to the armed services of the state that PSNI is a part of, which in logical terms is utterly bizaare.

so its not ok to recruit for the Army EOD ammunition technician defusing a 'suspect device' but it is ok to recruit the PSNI officer holding a rifle and guarding him....

consistency is whats needed.

As far as I'm aware, it's a legal issue. Foreign militaries aren't allowed to recruit in Ireland. Nothing is mentioned about foreign civilian police forces.By Boards.ie being hosted in southern, it falls under Irish Law.

concussion

Gizmo, that may be, but I fail to see how British citizens joining the Irish DF are any different to Irish citizens joining the BA. It's the exact same thing, yet one is a 'mercenary' and the other is not. As I have no qualms with Irish citizens enlisting in foreign armed forces, I likewise have no problem with a Northern Irish President.

gizmo555

Boston wrote: »

As far as I'm aware, it's a legal issue. Foreign militaries aren't allowed to recruit in Ireland. Nothing is mentioned about foreign civilian police forces.By Boards.ie being hosted in southern, it falls under Irish Law.

Section 312 of the Defence Act, 1954, provides that it shall not be lawful for any person——
(a) to induce, procure or persuade any person in the State to accept or agree to accept any commission or engagement in any military, naval or air force maintained by the Government of any other State, or
(b) to print within the State or cause or procure to be printed within the State any notice or advertisement in relation to the procurement of personnel for any military, naval or air force maintained by the Government of any other State, or
(c) to publish or cause or procure to be published within the State any such notice or advertisement as is mentioned in paragraph (b) of this subsection which is printed within the State.

gizmo555

concussion wrote: »

Gizmo, that may be, but I fail to see how British citizens joining the Irish DF are any different to Irish citizens joining the BA. It's the exact same thing, yet one is a 'mercenary' and the other is not. As I have no qualms with Irish citizens enlisting in foreign armed forces, I likewise have no problem with a Northern Irish President.

You're missing the point. People from Northern Ireland are Irish citizens - if they choose to be. Therefore, to them, the Irish army is not a foreign army.

Boston

gizmo555 wrote: »

You're missing the point. People from Northern Ireland are Irish citizens - if they choose to be. Therefore, to them, the Irish army is not a foreign army.

You don't need to claim Irish citizenship in order to join the Irish military, at least not the RDF anyway, and logically one would assume the PDF.

minidazzler

OS119 wrote: »

i think there's a fundamental logic problem here - Boards has a forum specifically for recruitment into PSNI, a non-RoI armed police force, yet it has a problem with recruitment to the armed services of the state that PSNI is a part of, which in logical terms is utterly bizaare.

so its not ok to recruit for the Army EOD ammunition technician defusing a 'suspect device' but it is ok to recruit the PSNI officer holding a rifle and guarding him....

consistency is whats needed.

Poccington wrote: »

Very good point, might be an issue worth raising.

Boston wrote: »

As far as I'm aware, it's a legal issue. Foreign militaries aren't allowed to recruit in Ireland. Nothing is mentioned about foreign civilian police forces.By Boards.ie being hosted in southern, it falls under Irish Law.

Not sure if ye were here for the poster known as PATHFINDER.

That was when recruitment threads got banned because they were giving Hagar major headaches because of people arguing about all sorts, much like we have these days, but more agressive because I was an asswipe and was at the time anti-british for reasons unknown to myself.

It had nothing to do with the legality of the issue, just a way to stop there being so many threads and bannings and headaches for Hagar as he was the main Mod in here and it was the forum giving him the most trouble.

Boston

Still there is a legal issue there.

concussion

Gizmo,

I said British Citizens for a reason - as you say, people in NI can claim Irish or British citizenship, or both. I'm interested in the British citizens. To make it clearer, if a Scottish man, who was a British citizen, joined the Irish DF would you see him as a mercenary?

minidazzler

Boston wrote: »

Still there is a legal issue there.

Posters are held accountable for what they post.

If Boards Ltd allow the discussion they are still basically safe.

The individual posters could technically be held responsible but there is unlikely to be charges filed.

There are real criminals to catch and this is a non-issue for everyone everywhere.

You will not however see adverts and recruitment on Irish TV or print media.

The internet is fair game though.

JUst because it's illegal doesn't mean it's wrong.

Also, there is noone ever actively recruiting here, just people giving other people advice,

Boston

The question, as I understood it, was why we can't have a recruiting forum/Thread. Should a thread would inevitably be seen as promotion. Companies like boards.ie aren't in the business of flouting the law. I'm sure legal advice would be needed before a decision was reached.

Donny5

minidazzler wrote: »

Posters are held accountable for what they post.

If Boards Ltd allow the discussion they are still basically safe.

Sorry to break it to you, but this is not correct. Under Irish law, the propreitor of a website which allows comments or messages to be published on that website assumes the role of publisher for those comments and becomes responsible for them. Boards.ie Ltd would be wholly responsible for the content of their pages, and any crimes commited therein.

therewillbe

Why? get your own citizens to sign up and be prepared to die for their queen&country.Muppets:mad: