PS3 story.

irishthump

Just thought this might interest some of you...

My brother bought a PS3 from Gamestop about 20 months ago, damn thing died on him a few weeks back.
I let him know about the EU 2year warantee on electrical goods as he was resigned to buying a new one. As you would expect he got in touch with GS and was told no, they only offered 1 year and that a refurb would cost 160euro, and if was'nt happy with that he would have to take it up with Sony! (He had already been told the responsibility rested with the seller!)
I also should mention he was referred to GS head office who asked him all sorts of questions like - "Are you sure you did'nt buy it in the US, as the store manager can't remember selling it to you?" My brother's reply - "That's why we have receipts."
After getting knowhere with GS he decided to go through the Small Claims Court, filed the claim and within a week got a call back from GS who said they would "be happy to offer him a brand new replacement!"

Just thought I would pas this on to anyone with similar problems.
I bought a PS3 from the same outlet in December. It packed up 2 months ago and was replaced (with no quibbles I might add), but I will be watching carefully.

rameire

good to hear the outcome.

i just bought a ps3 from game,
was offered their great lovely 2 year accident warranty.
said no, he persisted that the ps3 is know for a laser problem that could affect the machine and with the warranty it would be covered no problem, otherwise it would be around 160 euro.
i said no thanks as for 1 i know a bit of consumer law ( thanks to college, school and boards)
and 2 my house insurance would cover accidental damage, allbe it ill have to pay a small excess.

Elessar

Good to hear, I still can't believe retailers do not know their responsibilities in this day and age. Or they just don't want to know.

There was a similar post here last year about some girl who's PSP broke outside warranty and GAME refused to repair/replace it. IIRC the manager was a right nob head towards her. She went to the SCC and had a new one in a few weeks

irishthump

rameire wrote: »

good to hear the outcome.

i just bought a ps3 from game,
was offered their great lovely 2 year accident warranty.
said no, he persisted that the ps3 is know for a laser problem that could affect the machine and with the warranty it would be covered no problem, otherwise it would be around 160 euro.
i said no thanks as for 1 i know a bit of consumer law ( thanks to college, school and boards)
and 2 my house insurance would cover accidental damage, allbe it ill have to pay a small excess.

Someone had said Game were offering some sort of 2 year warranty. I assumed it was just the EU thing but now you're telling me they expect you to pay for it?
They can swing......

rubadub

irishthump wrote: »

the store manager can't remember selling it to you?" My brother's reply - "That's why we have receipts."

:eek:WTF!?! Who's the manager, fecking Rainman or something?... I would not expect to be remembered the next day, let alone 20 months on...

Did small claims cost him anything?

Blue_Wolf

The 1st year with electrical goods is honoured by seller after that it's the manufacturer so GS are right to tell you to deal with Sony directly.
Same story with phones when you have 2 years warranty, 1st year is with store and 2nd year with manufacturer. Nothing new year, its been like that for years!

dahamsta

Small Claims cost a tenner, last I looked.

Well done OP.

Anyone got a (definitive) website where I can read more detail about the 2 year EU requirement. I only really became aware of this recently and I'd like to read more about it.

bennyob

This is what happened me recently.

Blu ray drive died about a month ago on a 60gig ps3 bought in November 07. I called sony who wanted 160 euro to replace the part. I declined their ‘kind’ offer.

I called the argos, where ps3 was purchased, who originally fobbed me off saying that I am not covered outside of manufacturers 1 year warranty. I said to the lady that is warranty is on top of my legal right and in my opinion, a 500 euro piece of equipment should last more than 18 months. She said that she will check it out for me and call me back. Before she hung up I made her aware that if her reply wasn’t favorable, then I will take issue to small claims court if necessary.

I got a call back 20 mins later saying that they will replace the unit with a brand new 80gig model.

Pablod

Nice one OP, handy to know.
Know a few too many people that get done over by the likes of Game/Gamestop.

irishthump

Blue_Wolf wrote: »

The 1st year with electrical goods is honoured by seller after that it's the manufacturer so GS are right to tell you to deal with Sony directly.
Same story with phones when you have 2 years warranty, 1st year is with store and 2nd year with manufacturer. Nothing new year, its been like that for years!

I beg to differ.
The sticky on this very forum says that the seller is the one who is responsible, always.

irishthump

dahamsta wrote: »

Small Claims cost a tenner, last I looked.

Well done OP.

Anyone got a (definitive) website where I can read more detail about the 2 year EU requirement. I only really became aware of this recently and I'd like to read more about it.

I think he said it cost 15euro. Still a lot better than paying 160!

foggy_lad

Blue_Wolf wrote: »

The 1st year with electrical goods is honoured by seller after that it's the manufacturer so GS are right to tell you to deal with Sony directly.
Same story with phones when you have 2 years warranty, 1st year is with store and 2nd year with manufacturer. Nothing new year, its been like that for years!

very wrong! the seller/store/online store is fully responsible for all after sales care of everything you buy not just electrical items, some items will be expected to last longer than others but one year is not really long enough for a games console that has been treated normally and not dropped or had your tea spilled on it.

small claims costs €15 for claims up to €2000, well worth the money and effort in this type of situation!

Absolam

foggy_lad wrote: »

very wrong! the seller/store/online store is fully responsible for all after sales care of everything you buy not just electrical items, some items will be expected to last longer than others but one year is not really long enough for a games console that has been treated normally and not dropped or had your tea spilled on it.

small claims costs €15 for claims up to €2000, well worth the money and effort in this type of situation!

That's very misleading. A seller is not responsible for any 'after sales care'. The seller is responsible for remedying goods that are defective or not of merchantable quality at the time of purchase by repair replacement or refund. A fault (defect) which becomes apparent in goods within 'a reasonable period of time' is considered to have existed at the time of purchase and must be remedied by the seller as above. The seller might believe that the fault is not a fault but damage, or that more than a reasonable period had elapsed before the fault became apparent, and they they were not obliged to provide a remedy. In that situation, both parties would have their make their case before the SCC. So far that 'reasonable period' has been held to be one year by manufacturers and retailers alike for consoles. The EU directive attempted to specify the 'reasonable period' but the Statutory Instrument bringing it into law did not introduce that provision; so it remains for the courts to redetermine a 'reasonable period' as more than one year. So far I haven't seen any court judgement in Ireland that has done that, but if anyone has seen one... post a link!

Pythia

As I mentioned before, our PS3, bought in Dec 07 in Game, died about 2 months ago. Game told me to contact Sony which I did. After some mild arguing, they agreed to replace it. It was really handy, they couriered it to and from my work and I was very happy with the service.

foggy_lad

Absolam wrote: »

That's very misleading. A seller is not responsible for any 'after sales care'. The seller is responsible for remedying goods that are defective or not of merchantable quality at the time of purchase by repair replacement or refund. A fault (defect) which becomes apparent in goods within 'a reasonable period of time' is considered to have existed at the time of purchase and must be remedied by the seller as above. The seller might believe that the fault is not a fault but damage, or that more than a reasonable period had elapsed before the fault became apparent, and they they were not obliged to provide a remedy. In that situation, both parties would have their make their case before the SCC. So far that 'reasonable period' has been held to be one year by manufacturers and retailers alike for consoles. The EU directive attempted to specify the 'reasonable period' but the Statutory Instrument bringing it into law did not introduce that provision; so it remains for the courts to redetermine a 'reasonable period' as more than one year. So far I haven't seen any court judgement in Ireland that has done that, but if anyone has seen one... post a link!

That's very misleading.

goods must be reasonably durable!

Absolam

foggy_lad wrote: »

That's very misleading.

goods must be reasonably durable!

Yes: 'Goods are of merchantable quality if they are as fit for the purpose or purposes for which goods of that kind are commonly bought and as durable as it is reasonable to expect having regard to any description applied to them'.

Reasonable durability is not a case 'whatever you reckon yourself', but has to be construed with regard to the build quality of the product, which can really only be determined by the person making it; if the manufacturer says straight out that a product they make is built to last a year, then no-one can 'reasonably' expect it to last longer. Of course, if legislation were introduced to say all products of a certain kind must be built to last for at least x period, then the manufacturer would have to comply. But that is not the case.

ShooterSF

Absolam wrote: »

Yes: 'Goods are of merchantable quality if they are as fit for the purpose or purposes for which goods of that kind are commonly bought and as durable as it is reasonable to expect having regard to any description applied to them'.

Reasonable durability is not a case 'whatever you reckon yourself', but has to be construed with regard to the build quality of the product, which can really only be determined by the person making it; if the manufacturer says straight out that a product they make is built to last a year, then no-one can 'reasonably' expect it to last longer. Of course, if legislation were introduced to say all products of a certain kind must be built to last for at least x period, then the manufacturer would have to comply. But that is not the case.

Yes but the media would have a field day with it. Imagine being able to run the article "Sony admit that their €400+ games console thr PS3 is manufactured with a life expectancy of 1 year anything extra is a bonus."

foggy_lad

Absolam wrote: »

Yes: 'Goods are of merchantable quality if they are as fit for the purpose or purposes for which goods of that kind are commonly bought and as durable as it is reasonable to expect having regard to any description applied to them'.

Reasonable durability is not a case 'whatever you reckon yourself', but has to be construed with regard to the build quality of the product, which can really only be determined by the person making it; if the manufacturer says straight out that a product they make is built to last a year, then no-one can 'reasonably' expect it to last longer. Of course, if legislation were introduced to say all products of a certain kind must be built to last for at least x period, then the manufacturer would have to comply. But that is not the case.

this is simply not the case. the goods must be reasonably durable but this is in no way decided by the manufacturer but by the small claims court when people apply to get refunds/repairs etc that shopkeepers have denied them

yawnstretch

Great stuff guys. The ignorance surrounding this topic is unbelievable. Thanks for fighting the good fight.

Absolam

ShooterSF wrote: »

Yes but the media would have a field day with it. Imagine being able to run the article "Sony admit that their €400+ games console thr PS3 is manufactured with a life expectancy of 1 year anything extra is a bonus."

Totally agree... I can't imagine Sony would want that kind of publicity. But I think they would also weigh up the cost of the publicity against the cost of providing a longer warranty on their product.

foggy_lad wrote: »

this is simply not the case. the goods must be reasonably durable but this is in no way decided by the manufacturer but by the small claims court when people apply to get refunds/repairs etc that shopkeepers have denied them

If you think any judge is going to rule on the technical probability of the lifespan of a piece of sophisticated electronics without expert guidance you're crazy; and the greatest expertise on the goods will be that of the manufacturer.

And still so far no one has managed to produce any evidence of an Irish court ruling that goods such as a PS3 should be warranted for more than a year.

Gummy Panda

Absolam wrote: »

If you think any judge is going to rule on the technical probability of the lifespan of a piece of sophisticated electronics without expert guidance you're crazy; and the greatest expertise on the goods will be that of the manufacturer.

And still so far no one has managed to produce any evidence of an Irish court ruling that goods such as a PS3 should be warranted for more than a year.

Can you link to one where the SCC has ruled that a 12 month warranty is reasonable?

Q11. I have a faulty good but my guarantee is out of date by one month. Is there anything I can do?



A guarantee/warranty is a bonus and cannot affect or diminish your statutory rights with the seller. A guarantee/warranty is a written statement given by a manufacturer or a company indicating they will repair or replace a product within a specified time after it was purchased. You may decide to claim under a guarantee during its period of validity, but cannot be obliged to do so.

Therefore you may, if the reasonable lifetime of a given product exceeds the time period of any warranty, pursue the seller in respect of your statutory rights - 'The Sale of Goods and Supply of Services Act, 1980'. If the trader refuses to offer redress for the faulty goods and you have exhausted all other options you may wish to pursue the matter with the Small Claims Court.

A guarantee may be useful to a third party, however, as it extends to anyone possessing the goods during the guarantee period. This contrasts with the statutory rights of a purchaser, which extend only to the original purchaser of a good and not to any subsequent recipient or owner of that product. This distinction in important to note in respect of items given as gifts or the purchase/use of second hand items.

I give the same example again. Laptops come with 12 month warranties, is 12 months the expected lifespan of a €800+ computer?

Ps3/xbox360/wii are not marketed as 12 month consumable products therefore it could be expected that they last longer then that period.